Fed up with Sayrn being so stupid OP

[Darkmatt3r]

oh pwees dont kill the enemy kun! they are too precious to me.
lets keep them alive and kill em one by one and slow the fast pace gameplay style of warframe.

Kappa //

 

Edited September 17, 2018 by Darkmatt3r

[Darkmatt3r]

On 2018-09-16 at 1:59 AM, JuicyPop said:

And then everyone will go back to whinging about Mesa. 

Volt afterward xD

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

vor 35 Minuten schrieb Darkmatt3r:

Volt afterward xD

And rightly so, this coming from a Volt main. They were reluctant to lift the damage cap from Discharge anyway and as it turns out they were right.

vor einer Stunde schrieb (XB1)ultamite hero:

But hey even if saryn gets nerfed yall are just going to move to the next frame with nuking capabilities to complain about. It's quite a vicious cycle with these complaints that will most likely never end.

But a neverending vicious cycle of power creep resulting in warframes being just skins competing for who pushes their win button first to insta-travel to the reward screen seems like the more sound prospect? Slippery slope works both ways, let's not forget them beautiful greys.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Kotsender_Quasimir

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

Going afk actively hampers both saryn and your squad because spore popping needs to be done constantly since spores consistently smother themselves once they ramp up high enough damage wise in most content out there.  And actually there are more than a handful of frames out there that can slaughter just as well as her.  Now if you want to say you don't like how Saryn effects your gameplay that's fine.

But i'll have to ask you to take a step back and look at what game you're playing.  Warframe might feature squad play but the game has never been team orientated/synergistic in a natural way.  The only real reason to play in a squad is for more resources.  Solo play is incredibly boring and unfruitful due to lower enemy amounts.

[Darkmatt3r]

OP created the thread and left?

[NYXNYXNYXNYXNYXNYXNYXNYX]

1 hour ago, Darkmatt3r said:

OP created the thread and left?

guess he couldnt argue and just vent some hot air. point stands as many here wrote: Saryn isn't OP. she does the job DE intended her to do. the only problem i see is that ESO is a VERY small area where you fight so you can spread your Spores easily. stop hating on Saryn, start complaining that ESO is a joke of a gamemode; you can literally just use Nova with Amprex and kill'em all in seconds.

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 hour ago, Darkmatt3r said:

OP created the thread and left?

When a rant turns out to have no real support... what do you do?

[Darkmatt3r]

1 hour ago, NYXNYXNYXNYXNYXNYXNYXNYX said:

guess he couldnt argue and just vent some hot air. point stands as many here wrote: Saryn isn't OP. she does the job DE intended her to do. the only problem i see is that ESO is a VERY small area where you fight so you can spread your Spores easily. stop hating on Saryn, start complaining that ESO is a joke of a gamemode; you can literally just use Nova with Amprex and kill'em all in seconds.

True my dude!

56 minutes ago, Thaylien said:

When a rant turns out to have no real support... what do you do?

Go cry in a corner I presume 

[Andaius]

On 2018-09-15 at 1:37 PM, IceColdHawk said:

Then stop watching corpses die and refusing to do anything because you see the name "Saryn" in your squad. Go out and kill some. Trust me, it works. You only have to want it.

That implies she "insta-gibs" a room full of level 100s. But she doesn't. She simply applies DoT for so long, till enemies die. And if nobody shoots them then well, guess you can say she gibs the room...

 

On 2018-09-15 at 1:41 PM, DarkRuler2500 said:

Saryn is fine.
She needs time to ramp up damage and if she has ramped it up, she rocks.
That's her forte.

If you want to take that from her, then you might as well toss her in the trash bin together with the "reworked" ember.

 

On 2018-09-15 at 1:49 PM, IceColdHawk said:

So, you're saying that some people only care about kills but you just want to have fun. But they take all your fun away by killing all the stuff. That literally means that your definition of fun is, getting kills. So who is caring about kills only, again?

You contradicted yourself there...

 

On 2018-09-15 at 5:29 PM, Thaylien said:

Would you believe that after her Rework, I went and joined public games with my Zephyr, with the Funnel Cloud build I'd been using for the previous couple of years, no change from before, just to see if she still annoyed people. Do you know what happened?

I had a slew of players saying 'oh, I guess Zephyr's OP now, I should probably pick her up' or 'come on, this needs a nerf'. It didn't, it still doesn't, but they were saying it.

Because I was using her Funnel clouds for wide area Status and exploiting the heck out of how fun closed environments are for this build. And I, knowing the game, knowing missions, having better target acquisition, and generally having played a particular frame for four years, was able to score 70-80% of the damage on everything up to Sortie level, as long as I put the effort in. Whether that team included Novas, Saryns or even this one really, really enthusiastic Nidus, who didn't get that I was just driving my funnels to wherever he was using Larva to get free CC ^^

I killed a sortie-level Kela with Funnel Clouds and a set of Akjagara. And it's not because I found an over-powered ability (even though the Simulacrum pathing is like a school of piranhas, it doesn't actually do that in the main game) or because I had really good builds for my weird choice of weapons, it's because I know how to play and I know how to mechanically get the best out of a frame that other people don't often see the best part of.

Saryn is a little easier to get the best out of, but you still have to actually put the effort in to get the best out of her. Spores are self-limiting if you don't do anything with them, dying out as soon as they've eaten the nearest victims, and resetting your counter quickly enough. Without the high spawn rates of things like Sanctuary Onslaught or the Kuva Survival, she does tend to lose pace and have to re-build it quite a bit.

If somebody is playing Saryn well? Sure, they'll top damage and kill everything.

If you play your frame well? That 'top' damage will be a much smaller margin.

Heck, I have a screenshot somewhere of a bow-only sortie defense, where my weapon is a Mk-1 Paris, that I over-forma'd and found a Riven for, took a Jet Stream Zephyr (before her rework, where the only good ability she really had was Turbulence and the Jet Stream Augment, and yes I know I've got a thing for Zephyr, she was a terrible frame and I loved her for it) so that my bow was more of a sniper, and I killed as many enemies, and hit as many headshots, as an Ivara player with her Artemis Bow and Concentrated Arrow giving her AoE. And I was hundreds of kills ahead of the next nearest player in that squad.

If you know how this game works, if you play this game to your best extent, then screw 'OP' frames.

Sums it up pretty much. Saryn is fine.  If you give up trying to even kill stuff as soon as you see saryn is in your squad no wonder she gets more kills them you.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

On 2018-09-15 at 10:14 AM, Mattakadeimos said:

Like seriously if a Saryn player is in a mission type like defense, you may as well go afk. There's no fun in watching corpses explode and not doing any of the killing yourself. Its boring.

Its not just defense, any mission, oh look its Saryn. Might as well kiss any kills and just watch and wait till end of mission.

There is no other frame atm that can do such wholesale slaughter.

No, I'm not a Saryn main btw, she doesn't suit my playstyle. But you know dialling back her abilities to bring them in line with all the other frames would be nice.

Its either that or insta kick anyone playing as saryn from the games I'm in. No fun for anyone.

Come on DE sort it out.

I get where you are coming from a perspective of Saryn basically having an infinite DoT.

I assume when Melee 3.0 debuts, Saryn will be tuned down.

Players won't be at to use or try out new Melee attacks which require them to run from enemy group to enemy group, and is far outpaced by large AoE abilities.

(More-so, after DE removed Melee weapons being able to kill enemies through walls with high range builds.)

I can see DE either giving Spores a duration, thus requiring more upkeep, or hitting with a line of sight check on spreading. (Since normally people use barriers (walls) to isolate them from other sick individuals.) Or give prolonged Spores a reduced range based on damage potentcy build-up akin to World-on-Fire. So spread range goes down as the contagious spores get stronger.

Current Saryn wouldn't seem as bad if Melee players could still abuse high range through-wall attacks. Which DE deemed to be problematic to their envisioned gameplay. Even Ignis had its environment penetrating mechanic removed to encourage more skillful aiming.

If Warframe abilities get in the way of players being able to enjoy the new Melee mechanics, due to other players being unable to reach enemies to perform melee attacks....then DE will respond with making changes by either increasing melee cleave range or reducing Ability effectiveness.

[xcenic]

I have the solution to every *Cry this wArFrAmE is t0o str0nk* Thread.

-Farm the frame

-Farm the Mods

-Farm the endo

-Max the Mods

-Farm the synergy weapon:

-Farm weapon mod:

-Farm the Forma

-Forma Frame, Re-level the frame:

-Forma Weapon, Re-level the weapon:

-Profit.

lest say this example its sarym:

-Farm Sarym, if you like (jealousy Prime) Farm relics for sarym prime. 

-Farm: Cunning drift, Growing power, Primed continuity, transient fortitude, overextended, vitality, streamline, stretch, intensify, regenerative molt. (my build)

-Farm the endo

-Max the Mods. Tempo royale, Primed preassure point, primed reach, primed fever strike, drifting contact, primed fury, volcanic edge, molten impact, berserker.

-Farm the synergy weapon:  ZAW (4 forma) take me around 16 day to farm all material including gilded, reputation, bounty and stuff.

-Farm the Forma: 1 day to farm Bp, 1 day each forma, total 8 forma for 8 days.

-Forma Frame, Re-level the frame  4 times with out booster take me around 12 days.

-Forma Weapon, Re-level the weapon 4 times with out booster take me around 4 days.

-Profit.

In total i invest on my sarym around 200k endo, 9 forma, 3-4 million of credit, 30 days reforming and building her, Ton of materials, and a few platinum.

Now compare my time and effort invested on my sarym Vs you MK-braton Excalibur newly fresh from bake or you roar roar ignis rhino.

If people want to complaint againt a specific frame is due the only reason jealousy, lest be honest here. This is a cooperative game, if you find to no having fun in specific term just do solo mission or join only wit you friends.

Edited September 17, 2018 by xcenic

[Buttaface]

9 hours ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

And rightly so, this coming from a Volt main. They were reluctant to lift the damage cap from Discharge anyway and as it turns out they were right.

But a neverending vicious cycle of power creep resulting in warframes being just skins competing for who pushes their win button first to insta-travel to the reward screen seems like the more sound prospect? Slippery slope works both ways, let's not forget them beautiful greys.

Yep. In the days before extra range, duration, power strength mods, players did just fine with the content including farming, and AOE spam was not nearly as obnoxious as it is now... but was still nerfed for the good of the game. Due mainly to extra mods and poor frame power design, WF is worse than it has ever been in the AOE spam department. WF random coop has become a mess of mindless spam, and the game suffers overall as a result.

Watching people defend it is funny. Why not watch television? why even play a hybrid shooter game? Or maybe they are watching youtube vids while spamming 4.

[kyori]

On 2018-09-16 at 1:14 AM, Mattakadeimos said:

Like seriously if a Saryn player is in a mission type like defense, you may as well go afk

Pablo has admitted he made a mistake with Saryn's 4 but didn't mention when he will fix it. Meanwhile, those saryns you saw can only act power in teamplay, many of them can't survive solo in missions level 80 and above. so it is just some kind of ego boosting and nothing more than that.

[Buttaface]

38 minutes ago, xcenic said:

...

Massive straw man. Most of the players complaining about AOE spam including Saryn and other examples already have all those things. In fact, it seems to be more vets doing lots of the complaining and mid level players defending AOE spam from my perspective. It's reasonable to prefer to actually -play- the game, use weapons, use meaningful cooperative powers, and have new players remain and retained rather than leaving the game out of boredom due to tryhard Saryns, Equinox, Volt, Mesa, etc., spoiling most of the lower missions with excessive AOE.

And it's inaccurate to boot. A player can hop into WF, watch a couple of youtube vids, spend less $$ than buying any pay to play title, buy a tryhard frame or two, the mods and endo, forma, and be mindlessly AOE spamming in a day or two depending on trade limits ruining other players' game experience for god knows why. I see this regularly with low MR players on AOE crutch frames. So spare all the inaccurate "huge effort required" nonsense. It's fiction.

At thread, trying to make it all about ESO is inaccurate also. The game is now full of players who have done exactly what I describe in the preceding paragraph in -all- game modes, using a few usual suspect frames, and the game is suffering as a result.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Buttaface

[FireSegment]

On 2018-09-16 at 12:14 AM, Mattakadeimos said:

Its either that or insta kick anyone playing as saryn from the games I'm in. No fun for anyone.

Come on DE sort it out.

that would never be implement 

and no they can't, that's the problem. If DE can sort it out, then would have did it back when ember was in a similar state as saryn right now.

[(XBOX)ultamite hero]

10 hours ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

And rightly so, this coming from a Volt main. They were reluctant to lift the damage cap from Discharge anyway and as it turns out they were right.

But a neverending vicious cycle of power creep resulting in warframes being just skins competing for who pushes their win button first to insta-travel to the reward screen seems like the more sound prospect? Slippery slope works both ways, let's not forget them beautiful greys.

This is a similar situation to ember where people complained about her being op just because she was able to clear low level enemies in the star chart. The worst part was that embers 4th didn't do anything to level 100 enemies besides cc.  If saryn is clearing every enemy before you kill them it must mean all of you are fighting low level mobs or saryn has been given the time for her spore damage to build up.

[(PSN)chris1pat8twins]

3 hours ago, (XB1)ultamite hero said:

This is a similar situation to ember where people complained about her being op just because she was able to clear low level enemies in the star chart. The worst part was that embers 4th didn't do anything to level 100 enemies besides cc.  If saryn is clearing every enemy before you kill them it must mean all of you are fighting low level mobs or saryn has been given the time for her spore damage to build up.

Or is being boosted by rhino. Or enemies weakened by nova. Or both. People are only focusing on the kills, not the skills. 

[bward141989]

Saryn is not the problem, she's a symptom.  If they nerf Saryn she'll simply be replaced with Volt or Mesa or Equinox.  People will always try to find the quickest way to do content because Warframe, as a free 2 play game, is built around an RNG system that promotes either lots of grinding, or paying to avoid it.  Look at the relic system.  If you're looking for a specific part you're gated by two layers of RNG.  The chance that the particular relic you need will drop, and the chance that the relic will drop the part you need.  As a player the way to maximise your odds is to get as many of the relic as possible, and the way you maximise that is by running content as fast as possible.

[Azrael_V]

8 hours ago, xcenic said:

I have the solution to every *Cry this wArFrAmE is t0o str0nk* Thread.

-Farm the frame

-Farm the Mods

-Farm the endo

-Max the Mods

-Farm the synergy weapon:

-Farm weapon mod:

-Farm the Forma

-Forma Frame, Re-level the frame:

-Forma Weapon, Re-level the weapon:

-Profit.

lest say this example its sarym:

-Farm Sarym, if you like (jealousy Prime) Farm relics for sarym prime. 

-Farm: Cunning drift, Growing power, Primed continuity, transient fortitude, overextended, vitality, streamline, stretch, intensify, regenerative molt. (my build)

-Farm the endo

-Max the Mods. Tempo royale, Primed preassure point, primed reach, primed fever strike, drifting contact, primed fury, volcanic edge, molten impact, berserker.

-Farm the synergy weapon:  ZAW (4 forma) take me around 16 day to farm all material including gilded, reputation, bounty and stuff.

-Farm the Forma: 1 day to farm Bp, 1 day each forma, total 8 forma for 8 days.

-Forma Frame, Re-level the frame  4 times with out booster take me around 12 days.

-Forma Weapon, Re-level the weapon 4 times with out booster take me around 4 days.

-Profit.

In total i invest on my sarym around 200k endo, 9 forma, 3-4 million of credit, 30 days reforming and building her, Ton of materials, and a few platinum.

Now compare my time and effort invested on my sarym Vs you MK-braton Excalibur newly fresh from bake or you roar roar ignis rhino.

If people want to complaint againt a specific frame is due the only reason jealousy, lest be honest here. This is a cooperative game, if you find to no having fun in specific term just do solo mission or join only wit you friends.

This is the reality. Not to mention the time spent in the Simulcram and failed Endless Mission attempts to push your build. Not to mention Rivens for the weapons which compliment the frame, Kuva farming and burning said Kuva on trash rolls and farming again for decent rolls. And this is only one frame. Threads like this discount so much of what goes into a these builds and you still wonder why you're getting out killed. 

Edited September 18, 2018 by Azrael_V

[pabiring]

Sorry to resurrect this thread but i'd like to roast some more anti-saryn players.
This is from a recent sortie, stage 1 corpus defense - augmented shields.
 

Spoiler

Spoiler

Message to all anti-saryns: Your rage is invalid.

Spoiler

OH NO DON'T NERF MAG, she's my sweety :cri:

 

Edited September 22, 2018 by pabiring

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb pabiring:

Sorry to resurrect this thread but i'd like to roast some more anti-saryn players.
This is from a recent sortie, stage 1 corpus defense - augmented shields.
 

  Inhalt unsichtbar machen

  Unsichtbaren Inhalt anzeigen

Message to all anti-saryns: Your rage is invalid.

  Unsichtbaren Inhalt anzeigen

OH NO DON'T NERF MAG, she's my sweety :cri:

 

Each of the Saryns (except the obvious leech) has more than 3 times your total kills, i don't see how this is defending her...

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 11 Minuten schrieb Kotsender_Quasimir:

Each of the Saryns (except the obvious leech) has more than 3 times your total kills, i don't see how this is defending her...

Probably the fact that the actuall damage is equal to a frickin defensive support frame.

[Birdframe_Prime]

6 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Probably the fact that the actuall damage is equal to a frickin defensive support frame.

It's interesting, isn't it?

'Damage Dealt' as a stat is a little mis-leading, because you can deal 'overkill' damage to an enemy. If an enemy has 100 Health, and you deal 10k damage to it, you still deal 10k damage and it counts towards the percentage of damage dealt by you, but you've only killed one enemy.

Overkill damage is something that a Mag is actually really good at, because they can concentrate and multiply the effects of a single shot onto the enemy with Magnetise, (especially with projectile type weapons) and then the accumulated damage is output in a pulse that can kill radially with overkill damage too, if you've charged it enough. At level 60-70 for the Sortie Stage 1, lots of weapons can still one-shot, and if you're taking something that deals really high per-shot damage, like his Rubico, then it's going to be multiplied by the Magnetise and focused right onto the enemy usually as a large overkill number. It's no Mara Detron, but it'll kill things pretty damn easily.

One Magnetise cast could charge up the damage from multiple enemies shooting it, as well as multiple Rubico hits, and then output that radially, while Saryn can't.

The Saryns in that mission are dealing damage-over-time, meaning that very rarely will they deal more than a few hundred, maybe up to a thousand damage more than an enemy's actual health, they'll die to the tick, not to a massive single shot.

So what the Mag player is saying is that they're dealing high burst damage to a smaller amount of enemies, but at the same time, the Saryns must actually be doing more work, because to get that many kills for each means they must be actively spreading their spores, otherwise Spores would just die out every half minute or so and they'd get decay and have to start all over again.

Also, it's defense, and not one with increased spawns like a Fissure defense would be, that just by default means that the Saryns are getting only normal spawns and decay on their ability at the end of every Wave, so... They're actually doing their jobs, both of them.

For both of them equal a Mag's burst damage output with a frame that doesn't really do large instances of damage, quite the converse of that player's point, I think that's pretty impressive.

That player found actual active Saryn players... well, along with one leech, but no game is perfect ^^

[ArchXDiablo]

I fail to see how Saryn is mindless nor stupidly OP? I have Saryn Prime, I have played with other Saryns. I've outdamaged and out-killed (if that's the complaint here) Saryns with a number of frames because at the end of the day, weapons are a huge factor. Hell, I outdamaged Saryns with Mirage P built with the Amprex, Arca Plasmor or even Lenz at times. If you are playing with a Saryn and everything is just exploding, get out of the sub-level 30s missions. At that range, any number of frames can press one key and melt the whole tileset. 

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Thaylien:

Snip

Oh that actually is a mag, looked to me like a deluxe trin on first glance ^^ but numbers remain...

Valid points but what makes "damage dealt" interresting to me, especially when they come with "low range killers" is that it's not only stronger then dots but facticly stronger then scaling dots that affect all enemies at once appearently.

If we go according to recent feedback then it shouldn't at all be that balanced but rather beein dominated by a single saryn with a damage advantage of a solid 60-80% since spread conflicts between them, the damage scales and it potentially affects all enemies at once for its full indefinite range. Scores i even manage with my endgame built ember...

That even short games turn out like this where range should really be the only factor that matters shows just how well balanced she is imo.