Fed up with Sayrn being so stupid OP

[IceColdHawk]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Kamranos said:

The only contradiction comes from your assumption. I have fun working in a team. Together to defeat the enemy. I am prefectly happy play a pure support role, if I have a purpose. Don’t assume to know what I call fun. Only a try-hard sees “getting kills” as the only means of fun. 

My fun comes from helping new players understand the game, working as a proper team and finding new and inventive ways to complete missions other single ability spamming. 

Do yourself and everyone a favor and don’t assume you understand other players definitions of fun, because all you come off sounding like is a clueless try-hard. 

I wasn't assuming. You literally said it in your very own message. Now you either try to save face or you were actually not posting what you have really meant before. But i'm not gonna assume any of that. Just let me tell you, if you mean something then say it. And don't say something if you don't mean it.

Aside from that, i don't know how a pub Saryn is able to hinder you from finding new and inventive way to complete missions. If i were to test something that i don't want for pubs to ruin for me then i go solo or set my own group. That's how i get my fun out of. You can never know what kind of pubs you get so in order to set up your very own gameplay, this is just becoming a matter of luck and stress. And as you said, everyone has their own definition of fun. Where some people might just want to farm focus or rush the mission, you don't. But that only leads back to Public being Public.

[000l000]

Mesa, Equinox, Volt or Mag can kill even faster. Only Saryn spores have some outrageous range, and it takes time to spread and kill. If you're moving around i'm sure you can kill a few things before they die.

Not the funniest experience for sure but still manageable. You can also look for another party, Saryns are popular but not everywhere.

[(PSN)chris1pat8twins]

7 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

the problem is the game is too easy. id love it if DE allowed me to chose which place i go to open relics rather than forcing me into low lvl planet to open lith or meso.

enemies should be much tougher (more aggressive) than they are now when you have a full squad and they aren't. some frames power is still allowing them to solo while in a full squad and thats what needs to change. a damage modifier decrease should be placed on amount of members in a squad meaning you deal more damage as there are less members but deal less damage as there are more. it will move people into you know.... actually functioning as a squad.

Edit: Vermintide 2 and killing floor 2 are some of the best examples of coop team play that are horde games.

So Sorties should be level 300-400 with a full squad? 🤨🤦🏻‍♂️ Most people are not playing for fun NOR kills. They are playing to F... A... R... M!!! 😱

Which means kill everything as quickly as possible. Those who play SO or ESO are FARMING for affinity/focus. Those who play certain “easier” missions are FARMING for relics or resources. If you care that much about “FUN” then play the bounties that can’t be “rushed” very well. 

But most of us are not gonna bring weak warframes and weapons just to “have fun”. We are gonna bring strong killframes to KILL the enemies and FARM for the resources. You want fun that badly then get off the game and play something else. Not tell DE to make the game weak, dull, and annoying because you aren’t “having fun” getting “kills”. 

[Soketsu]

Don't worry, after the "rework", I bet someone gonna to be annoyed by another warframe

[(PSN)Kamranos]

7 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

I wasn't assuming. You literally said it in your very own message. Now you either try to save face or you were actually not posting what you have really meant before. But i'm not gonna assume any of that. Just let me tell you, if you mean something then say it. And don't say something if you don't mean it.

This is exactly what I wrote,

”I agree 100%

Some Try-hands only care about kill count, while I actually play to have fun. Saryn takes away all fun for me.” Meant try-hards but my iPad is being special* 

You literally don’t understand the definition of literally. You still assume that I give a flying quiznak about public games, I don’t.

When I do, I try to help fellow clanmates who use Saryn, all there is to do is either be a super try-hard or just sit there and watch. I care more about general player base and new players as they are what keep this game going. I might be a MR25, but I still remember what it was like struggling through a T1 key and how boring it was when a super high level melted everything this side of the planet with one move. It is a feeling that stuck with me so when I play with other people, I make sure I am not the cause of someone’s boredom or frustration. Yes, Saryn has her place and can be really helpful in certain situations, but nothing in the star map requires a single warframe to be as OP as she can get with very little modding. 

Edited September 16, 2018 by (PS4)Kamranos

[Xolgys]

vor 17 Stunden schrieb (PS4)RenovaKunumaru:

Eventually DE will nerf Miasma to LoS and all the Saryn players will disappear.

funny, they could nerf miasma dmg into the ground and give it +5 seconds CC and reduced energy cost, it would actually buff it. as long as they keep the viral proccs and increase the CC its a win, even if the energy costs stay as they are. the dmg from miasma is a bonus, even if it clears in lower lvl missions easily its nothin saryn needs. in those lvl areas spore clears so fast u cant even keep it up to scale properly and later its only short cc +viral proccs. the spread is a bonus, the dmg is there but not really required. arguably the spread on kill is even bad, using miasma with dmg focus is bad because if there arent any enemies left to infest when miasma kills ur just bound to reset ur own spores or at least reduce the counter.

i would even want them to shift miasma's focus from dmg to CC and viral proccs. i dont care about the dmg and i cant understand why some ppl go back to the old style of miasma spam from 4 years ago. even as a standalone AoE nuke is worse than what other frames have so any other frame like volt or day equinox, even ember with her reduced AoE would still be better in those lvl ranges where miasma kills on its own. melee ember focusing more on movement/close range does better even with a shorter range WoF. volt any day. even frost built for a dmging avalanche does enough dmg too. novas molecular prime doesnt kill on its own but has waaaay more effect on its own, pair it with anti matter drop and saryns (burst) dmg cant even compare in the slightest. i guess many ppl only see 1 ability of a frame and ignore the rest and maybe thats why some think saryn is broken right now. they should really look at other frames whole kit and the interaction inbetween. banshee same case...soundquake only, the other abilities dont exist...

[EinheriarJudith]

6 hours ago, (PS4)chris1pat8twins said:

So Sorties should be level 300-400 with a full squad? 🤨🤦🏻‍♂️ Most people are not playing for fun NOR kills. They are playing to F... A... R... M!!! 😱

Which means kill everything as quickly as possible. Those who play SO or ESO are FARMING for affinity/focus. Those who play certain “easier” missions are FARMING for relics or resources. If you care that much about “FUN” then play the bounties that can’t be “rushed” very well. 

But most of us are not gonna bring weak warframes and weapons just to “have fun”. We are gonna bring strong killframes to KILL the enemies and FARM for the resources. You want fun that badly then get off the game and play something else. Not tell DE to make the game weak, dull, and annoying because you aren’t “having fun” getting “kills”. 

dont think you can assume what i expect from the game. ive already laid it out. the game is to easy. some frames completely make squad play invalid and that needs to change. warframe is for the players not just you. fun is a subjective term but in a coop game that is supposed to promote team play it fails.

why dont you go buy killing floor 2 or vermintide 2 or even left 4 dead and see exactly what im talking about.

Edited September 16, 2018 by EinheriarJudith

[Leqesai]

Saryn scaling is the issue here. Spores should do 10% of a targets health per second affected by armor. This makes the armor stripping component more useful, the damage component useful but not overpowered, and synergy with a team more beneficial.

Damage ramp up is the wrong way for it to go with her...

[Birdframe_Prime]

5 hours ago, Ayures said:

This is the first time I've seen a Zephyr player actually admit to griefing Nidus players. I had a hunch some of you were #*!%ing up my larvae just to be $&*^s. 

Oh gods, your name actually looks familiar and all...

If that was you, then I'm really sorry, it's just so much fun to actually get the DPS as Zephyr after all these years of having Tornado be actively inhibiting to cast... It's just been so long since she's been relevant, and even when she was it was for something you could easily use Loki for instead...

Still, also if it was you, then thanks for the help, I really do appreciate the time you put in on those runs with me.

[Ramflare]

22 hours ago, felixsylvaris said:

Maybe some quality of life with Mag (more synergy)

Not sure what you mean by this? Mag is in a very good place, as for synergy; casting polarize on a magnetize bubble gives a massive damage boost, crush gives overshields & you can use pull to group enemies within the aoe of your other abilities...

If they were to do a rework to force more synergy I think it would just make her unnecessarily complex

[felixsylvaris]

Il y a 4 heures, Droopsie a dit :

Not sure what you mean by this? Mag is in a very good place, as for synergy; casting polarize on a magnetize bubble gives a massive damage boost, crush gives overshields & you can use pull to group enemies within the aoe of your other abilities...

If they were to do a rework to force more synergy I think it would just make her unnecessarily complex

Like:

Crush creating shards

Pull using shards in some way (slash damage)

Pul spawning orbs on live targets (pull too low damage to kill reliable way). Or energy orbs moved to crush.

When casting pull and pointing at magnetize sphere, the sphere is apulling instead of mag.

Magnetic abillities, has magnetic status chance.

Edited September 16, 2018 by felixsylvaris

[Birdframe_Prime]

3 hours ago, Droopsie said:

If they were to do a rework to force more synergy I think it would just make her unnecessarily complex

Actually, I'm with the other guy, Mag could use a little polish.

Maybe if you cast Pull without Magnetise active, it would do its thing as normal, but if you cast it with Magnetise active, it would act as a radial pull from the middle of the bubbles in range of your cast, meaning that enemies were instead grouped in the middle of a damage dealing cast rather than thrown through it into the area directly around you.

The Shards add some damage to her Magnetise, so why not do more? Crush creating Shards is a great idea, and then have them affected by the radial pull from the Magnetise bubbles, yanking all of them into the nearest bubble to the item to add to that power there.

And have the defense removed by Polarise be a capped percentage of total, rather than a numbers-only amount which loses effect by the time you hit level 60 or so, that would be okay. We have frames that can totally remove armour on single targets, frames that can totally remove armour on multiple targets situationally (Frost while they're Frozen, Oberon if they were on Hallowed Ground when Reckoning was cast) and a frame that can strip armour across so many targets with just the press of 1, 3 and hitting that enemy with a melee attack. A permanent 30% reduction in Armour or Shields from a Shield Polarise means that you'd need a minimum of 4 casts to remove armour totally, with that being the cap you can achieve with just... ooh, maybe 145% Strength... and negative Strength (from max-range) would reduce the amount to a minimum to discourage max-range spam.

Not asking for much, with Mag, she's in a good place right now, but her 3 and 4 do seem to completely lose effectiveness over time, especially if you're somebody who wants to do a longer run, but doesn't want to use the meta Mara Detron Bubbles.

[(PSN)chris1pat8twins]

5 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

dont think you can assume what i expect from the game. ive already laid it out. the game is to easy. some frames completely make squad play invalid and that needs to change. warframe is for the players not just you. fun is a subjective term but in a coop game that is supposed to promote team play it fails.

why dont you go buy killing floor 2 or vermintide 2 or even left 4 dead and see exactly what im talking about.

I’ve already played those. And this is not either of those games. Those games don’t require you to farm as much as this game does. Maybe if DE cut the amount of resources needed by the same amount you think should the difficulty should be increased then maybe, MAYBE, I’ll be able to understand. But I’m not gonna want to spend hours or DAYS trying to farm for resources because a few players can’t make their own squad or play solo to “have fun”. People are tired of farming as is, and your so called “idea” is to make farming even harder/more annoying.

Maybe DE could do what Monster Hunter World does which create an elite version of the missions that you could do “for fun”. Much like how there is a SO and an ESO. But otherwise complicating the whole farming mechanic of the game will definitely cause a lot of players to quit. Do you know how long it took me to farm for Oxium? Clearly not obviously. It took me hours upon hours with a resource drop chance and resource booster with a nekros to farm for the amount needed just for Vauban Prime. I even had to look up which mission spawned the most oxium drones. And those things don’t like going down very much and you want them to be even harder to destroy because, TO YOU, it’s “too easy” which would make farming the oxium for new players even more complicated. That is the big flaw in your so called idea. FARMING. Maybe if you actually thought about the whole game and not just about the number of kills, then more people would take your so called idea seriously.

How many times do I have to mention FARMING before you realize that is the main point? Making me see your “cooperating teamwork” is not the current issue. Your plan will affect farming for all other players. You may not care that much but most of us have lives outside of warframe or like to play other games other than warframe. Black Ops 4 is gonna be out soon and I’ll only have time to get my logins and possibly do the sortie. Otherwise I’m gonna want to play it. Your suggestion would make people like me be forced to put a lot more time in this one game just so your feelings don’t get hurt. Yes I said feelings cause clearly you FEEL left out of the killing. 

[EinheriarJudith]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)chris1pat8twins said:

I’ve already played those. And this is not either of those games. Those games don’t require you to farm as much as this game does. Maybe if DE cut the amount of resources needed by the same amount you think should the difficulty should be increased then maybe, MAYBE, I’ll be able to understand. But I’m not gonna want to spend hours or DAYS trying to farm for resources because a few players can’t make their own squad or play solo to “have fun”. People are tired of farming as is, and your so called “idea” is to make farming even harder/more annoying.

Maybe DE could do what Monster Hunter World does which create an elite version of the missions that you could do “for fun”. Much like how there is a SO and an ESO. But otherwise complicating the whole farming mechanic of the game will definitely cause a lot of players to quit. Do you know how long it took me to farm for Oxium? Clearly not obviously. It took me hours upon hours with a resource drop chance and resource booster with a nekros to farm for the amount needed just for Vauban Prime. I even had to look up which mission spawned the most oxium drones. And those things don’t like going down very much and you want them to be even harder to destroy because, TO YOU, it’s “too easy” which would make farming the oxium for new players even more complicated. That is the big flaw in your so called idea. FARMING. Maybe if you actually thought about the whole game and not just about the number of kills, then more people would take your so called idea seriously.

How many times do I have to mention FARMING before you realize that is the main point? Making me see your “cooperating teamwork” is not the current issue. Your plan will affect farming for all other players. You may not care that much but most of us have lives outside of warframe or like to play other games other than warframe. Black Ops 4 is gonna be out soon and I’ll only have time to get my logins and possibly do the sortie. Otherwise I’m gonna want to play it. Your suggestion would make people like me be forced to put a lot more time in this one game just so your feelings don’t get hurt. Yes I said feelings cause clearly you FEEL left out of the killing. 

warframe is a horde game just like the ones ive named. vermintide, vermintide 2 have very strict itemization. you've assumed that i want the enemies to be bullet sponges right from the start which is wrong, you've assumed that i dont want payouts to be much more rewarding when in a full squad which is again wrong.

the only different between solo and squad in Warframe is spawn rate. the enemies still behave the same. they still move on the same rail. the rewards at end of mission are the same reguardless of if you solo or if you are in a squad. only item dropped by enemies is different between the 2. mission time by endless is generally 5min per rotation so time spent in missions wont change. a game can be fun to play in a squad and be fun to farm. saying warframe is just a farming game discredits what it actually is which is a coop horde loot shooter.

ill say it again. when you are in a full squad frames should not be able to do the job of your entire team and thats what some of them are able to do.

[Buttaface]

All radial frame powers that kill mobs at long range need to -go-, be target-capped, damage capped, turned into a cone, whatever. Mesa-crutch aimbot needs to -go-, be target capped, range-capped, etc. As posted elsewhere, it's understandable that they need to have crutch powers for players who can't aim, controller players, etc. All games have 1-2 crutch classes so bad players can still contribute. But WF has gotten utterly out of hand in this regard.

[Xana_Skullsunder]

On 2018-09-15 at 7:27 PM, MrMrs said:

Sure saryn can hold herself but she does need some help at times.

 

This is why I suggest an idea for you. Do something other than killing *cough* support *cough*. Honestly, not all of the game is about it killing. It's about being a helpful teammate.

 

Oh wait you want to still be a nuker? Well there are many who do the job of nuking. Like Mesa, Equinox, and more. 

-> Joins mission as Nezha
-> Tries to land Blazing Chakrams on enemies for orb drops to support team
-> Saryn is killing them in the time between me throwing the chakram and the chakram hitting the enemy ~15 meters away


The same thing happened with Banshee's Sonar, Rhino's Stomp, Harrow's Thurible, and a few other abilities. Sure, I could still buff teammates, but when enemies on opposite ends of the map are dissolving, how, exactly, am I supporting the team even if I do buff them?

Here, it's not a perfect example, but let's say you're playing Overwatch. You to play Reinhardt because tanking is your thing. Neat. But Reaper just got a buff. His ult has a fraction of it's normal cooldown, ignores walls, and hits half the map. Sure, you can still try to tank, but when everyone on the other team is dead before you can so much as put your shield up, are you really contributing anymore? No? That's the same problem people have with Saryn. They want to contribute. And you're saying that's bad? Would you rather leeching be the norm then? Tell me.

Frankly, I miss old Saryn. Having viral procs on enemies all around the map was useful without giving my teammates nothing to do.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Xana_Skullsunder

[Hokibukisa]

She shines on maps with massive amounts of enemies, different frames outshine others depending on their niche.

If you want to always be useful you can try support frames like Trinity/Octavia/Banshee/Rhino.

Octavia is nearly always useful.

Trinity shines in challenging PUGs because you can carry 3 noobs through a stage 3 sortie mission, Saryn can't do that.
Is Trinity OP?

Edited September 17, 2018 by Hokibukisa

[(PSN)chris1pat8twins]

6 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

warframe is a horde game just like the ones ive named. vermintide, vermintide 2 have very strict itemization. you've assumed that i want the enemies to be bullet sponges right from the start which is wrong, you've assumed that i dont want payouts to be much more rewarding when in a full squad which is again wrong.

the only different between solo and squad in Warframe is spawn rate. the enemies still behave the same. they still move on the same rail. the rewards at end of mission are the same reguardless of if you solo or if you are in a squad. only item dropped by enemies is different between the 2. mission time by endless is generally 5min per rotation so time spent in missions wont change. a game can be fun to play in a squad and be fun to farm. saying warframe is just a farming game discredits what it actually is which is a coop horde loot shooter.

ill say it again. when you are in a full squad frames should not be able to do the job of your entire team and thats what some of them are able to do.

One I haven’t assumed anything. You just said that the warframes should be basically weaker thus making the enemies harder to kill. And I’m not talking about the end rewards. I’m talking about the resources that only drop when enemies are killed. So let me break it down.

Warframes weaker in full squad = enemies harder to kill = less enemies killed within a certain time = less resources dropped = more time spent to farm = angry players posts on the forums = some if not a lot of quitters. 

This is not just a horde game and I have NEVER said that it is just a farming game. Don’t go putting words in my mouth. I said that the farming aspect of this game would become complicated due to less resources collected within a period of time. Which means DE would have to get rid of pretty much every warframe that doesn’t contribute to the mass killings of the enemies or else they are just slowing everybody else back. Atlas can’t kill huge hordes of enemies as quickly as a Saryn or Equinox, even though he can damage a single opponent a lot, like bosses. So an atlas being paired with an equinox would only make farming more complicated and annoying. Imagine if there were 3 inaroses with an equinox during a Sanctuary Onslaught. 

I’m already dealing with Inaros in defenses and Spies. We are already being forced to carry AFKers and leechers. Then there’s the bosses and bounties. And your suggestion about making the warframes weaker the bigger the squad would force people like me to only play solo. If that is the case then the whole “cooperation” speech means nothing if players mostly if not only play solo. If that became the case, then you might as well just start playing solo and drop this entire subject altogether. 

Your suggestion could be some new type of mode similar to Elite Sanctuary Onslaught or Nightmare modes. Of course you’d probably not find many people playing because most of us want to farm for resources and refuse to be slowed down. Maybe if y’all brought a KILLframe in a mission that requires killing, then y’all won’t be left out. People have fun killing hordes of enemies quickly and farming for the resources needed to progress through the game. 

Find a squad, play solo, or get with the program. But do not expect DE to change the entire game for everybody else because a few of you don’t like farming. 

Either way I’m done explaining how flawed this suggestion is. If you still can’t understand what I’m getting at then oh well. I’m done. At least DE isn’t stupid. 

[ZodiacShinryu]

55 minutes ago, Xana_Skullsunder said:

-> Joins mission as Nezha
-> Tries to land Blazing Chakrams on enemies for orb drops to support team
-> Saryn is killing them in the time between me throwing the chakram and the chakram hitting the enemy ~15 meters away

First, I guess my problem with this hypothetical is that if they were killing without your "support" then they didn't need your support to start with. That is true for pretty much every frame, not just Saryn. I can go in as Chroma/Excalibur/Frost/etc and not "need" your support to begin with. Second, we really need to tag a level range on to these sort of discussions. I have yet to see a Saryn control the map so 'quickly, completely and effortlessly' around Sortie level as everyone makes her out to be. I could personally do it faster before her rework. The lower the level range the more frames that are the instigators of your problem the higher the level range the Saryn has to be playing well to keep up Spores under control. Spores itself is a flat damage ability that 'scales' indirectly through active time, it doesn't just start out lethal. With no action, Spores kills itself. With bad choices, Spores can reset. Support at that point would actually be beneficial to ease Saryn's tasks. None the less it still takes a certain amount of time depending on the level.

1 hour ago, Xana_Skullsunder said:

Here, it's not a perfect example, but let's say you're playing Overwatch. You to play Reinhardt because tanking is your thing. Neat. But Reaper just got a buff. His ult has a fraction of it's normal cooldown, ignores walls, and hits half the map. Sure, you can still try to tank, but when everyone on the other team is dead before you can so much as put your shield up, are you really contributing anymore? No? That's the same problem people have with Saryn. They want to contribute. And you're saying that's bad? Would you rather leeching be the norm then? Tell me.

I think the problem here is perspective. People want to contribute? Sure I can understand that (at least for most people). But there is a faction of the community that is trying to enforce this 'cooperative/teamwork' aspect on a game that isn't truly that (any more anyway), and hasn't been for 3-4years. It is a solo game you can play with others. Even then most the people that are calling for more 'teamwork' aren't looking at fixing the game to make it more cooperative as much as it is just to make it feel more satisfying for them to play solo in a group in the few cases where someone may overshadow everyone else.

So in your example, what if no one ever used Reinhardt's shield (other than you) or needed it in the first place even without the Reaper buff? Sure you can do stuff but you weren't actually needed. Your contribution as Reinhardt was illusionary that likely could've been filled by anything/anyone. That is the warframe experience in a nutshell when you run across people that know what they are doing on any frame. Four solo players sharing the same space for the slight increase to looting (through increased spawns) and perhaps slightly less overall effort to complete certain objectives. Simply, I can understand people like to feel like they did something but is an illusion any better than nothing?

[Leqesai]

Maybe adding a chance for the tick damage to not register would be a good way to balance saryn.

 

Since the spores are persistent there could be a flat 25 percent chance per tick that the spores deal no damage. This keeps the ramp up damage and scaling but pulls back the damage potential a bit. 

 

On ticks where a target takes no damage the should still have a chance for corrosive proc. 

 

To be honest of spores was simply a way to spread corrosive procs it would be a very valuable team ability. As it stands it kills targets fast enough that they rarely get completely stripped of armor.

[pabiring]

Oh boy here we go again.

[EinheriarJudith]

1 hour ago, (PS4)chris1pat8twins said:

~snip~

i see that all you can do is make assumptions so ill stop here ive said what i needed to say.

[(XBOX)ultamite hero]

I've seen way too many saryn complaint threads wanting to nerf saryn. I've played with saryns in ESO and I can definitely say that its not as hard to get kills as yall described. Matter of fact you can still get plenty of kills when saryn is around, especially when the enemies levels start ramping up.

But hey even if saryn gets nerfed yall are just going to move to the next frame with nuking capabilities to complain about. It's quite a vicious cycle with these complaints that will most likely never end.

[pabiring]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)ultamite hero said:

~snip~

yep exactly, the endless cycle of stupidity.

[(PSN)chris1pat8twins]

1 hour ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

First, I guess my problem with this hypothetical is that if they were killing without your "support" then they didn't need your support to start with. That is true for pretty much every frame, not just Saryn. I can go in as Chroma/Excalibur/Frost/etc and not "need" your support to begin with. Second, we really need to tag a level range on to these sort of discussions. I have yet to see a Saryn control the map so 'quickly, completely and effortlessly' around Sortie level as everyone makes her out to be. I could personally do it faster before her rework. The lower the level range the more frames that are the instigators of your problem the higher the level range the Saryn has to be playing well to keep up Spores under control. Spores itself is a flat damage ability that 'scales' indirectly through active time, it doesn't just start out lethal. With no action, Spores kills itself. With bad choices, Spores can reset. Support at that point would actually be beneficial to ease Saryn's tasks. None the less it still takes a certain amount of time depending on the level.

I think the problem here is perspective. People want to contribute? Sure I can understand that (at least for most people). But there is a faction of the community that is trying to enforce this 'cooperative/teamwork' aspect on a game that isn't truly that (any more anyway), and hasn't been for 3-4years. It is a solo game you can play with others. Even then most the people that are calling for more 'teamwork' aren't looking at fixing the game to make it more cooperative as much as it is just to make it feel more satisfying for them to play solo in a group in the few cases where someone may overshadow everyone else.

So in your example, what if no one ever used Reinhardt's shield (other than you) or needed it in the first place even without the Reaper buff? Sure you can do stuff but you weren't actually needed. Your contribution as Reinhardt was illusionary that likely could've been filled by anything/anyone. That is the warframe experience in a nutshell when you run across people that know what they are doing on any frame. Four solo players sharing the same space for the slight increase to looting (through increased spawns) and perhaps slightly less overall effort to complete certain objectives. Simply, I can understand people like to feel like they did something but is an illusion any better than nothing?

Exactly. People be claiming that certain killframes can wipe out level 100+ like they’re nothing but I’ve been using Saryn powered by a maxed strength roaring rhino and still can’t wipe out level 60+ as quickly as some of these people be claiming. It’s like they are either exaggerating or not paying attention to what’s really going on. One dude literally told a friend of mine that his banchee(before the nerf) was OP, while completely ignoring that my max strength rhino was increasing his damage by over 150%(at that time). Now my rhino can increase damage by 169%. Almost 200% with an equinox. Then even while equinox and other kill frames are killing enemies, I’m also killing lots of enemies too. Equinox needs other players’ kills to stack up damage for a burst. But I do be noticing those couple of players not doing anything at all to contribute. 

Think about Eidolon hunts. One is a trinity for healing, one is a harrow for protection + critical, one is a volt for critical damage, and the other is... you all know, chroma for the damage/kill. In the end it will mostly be chroma that does the damage and ultimately killing/capturing of the eidolons. But nobody is complaining about that. 

A small fraction of the whole community basically want the entire game to change all because of their own selfish reasons. In the end it is always “me, me, me, me”. Ember is now useless in the Plains due to her range becoming too short to hit as many enemies. I run out of energy too quickly using a maxed range high damage Saryn. Equinox requires team kills but a lot of players be AFK so I don’t use her. So I don’t know where these people be getting their info from. They all say the same thing, “this warframe can kill level 100+ with ease”. And some bring up the simalcrum. Well me and a buddy don’t rely on that for info. He defeated level 100+ in it but when facing the real deal with real stakes, he doesn’t do nearly as much. So we rely on real experiences. Not a simulation. And it seems that these players be forgetting the sortie a lot and only focus on the easier missions. What’s the point of level up, upgrading, advancing to more difficult missions, just be nerfed because newbies want to kill more while you’re trying to farm for relics? Or even focus.

Feels like a big political debate between different minority groups all wanting to impeach or elect a warframe as top warframe. Or change the laws of warframe to suit their own selfish needs and not the community as a whole.