A look at Revvie: Why I think DE has missed the point with the recent Revenant tweaks

[Genoscythe]

Revenant is a unique frame. It's using the power of our most feared and most dangerous enemies for us while also looking wicked. It conveys the eerie and unknown beauty of the sentient eidolons, which is greek for phantom or apparition. Themed as vampire-sentient being, it heavily missed the actual focus, though. Right now revenant is in a bad place, because the synergy between his abilities looks forced, and even if there is some kind of it they tend to stand in each others way. In this post I want to look at Revvie as a whole and make clear why there is a lot more potential. At the moment every revenant you see when in a squad is just using his 4, but it doesn't have to be like that. Without further ado, let's get to it.

Tl, dr: Make revvie more about killing things instead of relying on living enemies, tweak the base stats and passive, make the control effects a consequence of his damage abilites instead of making him need the control effects for damage. Make abilities more scaleable and synergize in a less forced way.

Stats: Revenant is meant to be fragile and make up for it with his abilities. With high shields at level 30 he can take a bit of a beating, but his very low armor and health make him go to his knees rather quickly, mesmer skin doesn ot block all kinds of damage (see below). The energy reserves resemble a rhino or frost, like he was a tank. Revenant is mean to jump into battle considering the functionality of his 3rd and 4th ability, so why not give him more armor and health? Sentients themselves have lots of armor and the Battalysts and Conculysts even use no shield at all and rely on their tankyness and adaptability. I think we all can agree that shields are the most useless defensive stat in the game, as they don't have any damage resistance and can be penetrated by status effects and toxin damage.

Conclusion: Increase health and armor slightly, maybe even by a medium amount.

 

Passive: The shockwave when loosing shields is a nice thought, because shields almost go down immediately, but haven't I seen this somewhere already? It's basically novas passive with shield loss instead of knockdown. While it's a nice nod to the Tridolons, it has as good as no use ingame. Sentients feature a lot more interesting abilities, like adaption to damage received, and Revenant definitely could use some of it considering his above mentioned squishyness.

Conclusion: Something more in line with his abilities and kit is needed. Nothing game-changing, but maybe making the shockwave enthrall up to 3 enemies and giving an armor increase for 5 seconds could help him recover by giving easy reave targets and distracting enemies.

 

Now for the abilites, my favorite part. DE recently made some minor tweaks, but they still completely missed the point of Warframe in my opinion. Generally, revenant is based a lot on controlling enemies instead of right-out killing them. Both Sentients and Vampires are fearsome because of their adaptability. Sentients because they feature incredible defensive and offensive powers and Vampires because they kill off living things to become stronger themselves. They are not mainly charmers, but hunters, they don't require control. I will have this and the general gameplay of Warframe in mind when analyzing the abilites. Because this game is about killing things. If you can't kill stuff or at least CC enemies, a Warframe has no place in most gamemodes. Especially if you require living enemies for your abilites you will have a problem with Bossfights, Eidolons and Sanctuary Onslaught or if you run with a good team, it's faster and better to take out an enemy instead of controlling it. I will try to keep away from straight damage buffs and rather refine some of the scaling mechanics and how the synergy works out.

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1. Enthrall: Enthrall is in a really bad position right now. They way it spreads is too slow and I already read some posts complaining about Teammates killing off enthralles enemies too fast, which is sadly true. The damage zones it creates are actually fine, but when hit by revenants 4 convert into overshield pickups, which is ridiculous when considering how useless shields are. When fighting a single, strong enemy like a boss for example revenant already looses half of his synergy because the enemy can't be controlled.

Proposal: Make enthrall create the damage zone that fires orbs when cast. Enemies that enter the zone are enthralled and spread the effect as usual, limit the number of damage zones created by casts to something like 4, allow for damage zones from killed thralls to not count on the max.

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2. Mesmer Skin: For anyone who has played amesha thism ight sound like THE defensive ability. However, it does not work out that well on Revenant. Mesmer skin right now uses one charge for every hit. If you get hit by some drakgoon shrapnels for example, it will consume several charges at once. Then, it only blocks direct fire: Napalm patches, rollers etc. will still damage you normally. The casting time is also really long, and the synergy with enthrall feels forced. It's by no means a bad ability, but the way it calculates defense can lead to your death even when feeling safe, also the number of charges is rather limited and the casting time is really high.

Proposal: Bear with me on this one: Whenver a charge is consumed, revenant get's a 0.3 second time window where new hits don't consume a charge. Instead of giving overshiled pickups, all enthrall damage patches that are created from killing enemies now drop a mesmer-skin pickup that restores 30% of your current charges and allies gain three charges of Mesmer skin when picking it up. Casting time needs to be cut down a bit.

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3. Reave: This is an awkwardly unique skill. While we have a lot of charge skills (from slash dash to rhino charge to whatever Hydroids three is called), this one actually sucks life out of enemies. Correct me if I'm wrong, but no other skill comes to my mind right now that only scales with one stat. And here we face the problem: it actually only scales with duration and get's a bonus on enthralled enemies. The basic leech amount of 8% is rather low. I find the whole concept of 'esscape move' that DE called it wonky: In Warframe there is no escape, only combat. The casting tim is so painfully slow even with natural talent that you are better of switching to operator mode. The scalability of this ability is also one of its biggest problems. Then, it doesn't let you use the verticality of Warframe to your advantage, you can't hit flying enemies. The skill really should be usefun on itself and not rely on Revenant having to have thralled enemies and his Danse Macabre enabled.

Proposal: Add a damaging component to the ability and make it scale with range (3 meters fixed range + 3 meters range that scale with range mods). Base damage, additionaly to the leech percentage should be around 1000 and 2000 for thralls, scaling with power strength.Alternatively make a certain percentage of the Leech amount scale with STR and make the rest static. Ability should be able to be used vertically (also to move around with Danse Macabre). Cast time needs to be cut. Alternatively, give a casting time bonus when under 50% or 200 health.

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4. Danse Macabre: Probably the most useful skill in his kit for normal gameplay, but the really bad scalability and limitation to horizontal range, and how it's unaffected by range (thicker beams don't do anything different, right now playing with only duration and STR is the only way of playing revenant effectively) together with the high energy cost make it look lackluster compared to uber-frames like Mesa or Saryn. Then, it never hits the whole screen and the rotation speed is rather low, no damage resitance is gained while in this vulnerable state. Also the fact that status chance does not scale with STR makes it a lot less viable in the level ranges over 70, even with a max STR build. Finally he can absorb damage dealt to him by enemies and spew it out, which sounds great in theorie but in reality you always die when absorbing major damage because revenant, as mentioned above, is squishy as hell.

Proposal: Give Danse Macabre a vertical arc in which it auto-targets enemies, similar to Mirage' prism. Instead of making beams thicker, make danse Macabres range increase the auto target arc. Give revenant a bonus on mesmer skin when in his 4, and give a 30% damage resitance while turning, 50% when boosting. Make hits on mesmer skin add 3x the inflicted damage to the Danse macabre damage pool. Make boosted Danse Macabre increase turning and movement speed. Give a fixed status/boosted status amount and make 15% of the status chance scaleable with STR. Make hits on enthralled flame patches drop mesmer skin pickups.

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If you made it here, thanks for reading. I feel like Revenant has a huge amount of potential, but right now he's an all spin-to win spamframe whose abilities don't go that well together and limit him a lot. He is no weak per se riht now, but can't play out his powers over level 50 very well. I would love to see the frame get the powers he deserves and made as intimidating as he looks.

 

Edited September 18, 2018 by Genoscythe
Spelling and calrification

[Twistedsparkle]

all of his animations are really slow too natural talent is a must

[Genoscythe]

à l’instant, Twistedsparkle a dit :

all of his animations are really slow too natural talent is a must

Yes, but even then they take time, I played him with Natural talent initially but then took it our for more survivability mods. Even with lots of STR mesmer skin can't hold up with enemy fire, arcanes are also a must on higher levels.

[Urlan]

Very interesting suggestions! I would disagree with adaptive armor since Eidolons don't have that, but being invulnerable to status; can't take life damage in any form if shields are still up; or the nova knockdown passive instead being changed into a large magnetic pulse that hits enemies for damage per pulse around the max shielding removed would be unique among warframes and tie heavily into his lore breaking Eidolon connection.

[Genoscythe]

Il y a 2 heures, Urlan a dit :

Very interesting suggestions! I would disagree with adaptive armor since Eidolons don't have that, but being invulnerable to status; can't take life damage in any form if shields are still up; or the nova knockdown passive instead being changed into a large magnetic pulse that hits enemies for damage per pulse around the max shielding removed would be unique among warframes and tie heavily into his lore breaking Eidolon connection.

I think that no life damage while shields are up or a pulse based on max shields would be rather gimmicky, exactly what a proper passive should not be. Shields go donw in one or two shots from mid-level enemies and to make the pulse viable you would have to mod for shields. I understand your point, lore conformity and all, but gameplay goes before lore on this I think.

[(XBOX)ultamite hero]

So far from my tes runs on revenant I was able to solo a fissure survival mission for 2 hours. He performed pretty well not having any issues. Well except for one issue I had which was random lancer grenades ignoring mesmer skin. But other than that he seems pretty solid in a solo scenario being able to make use of all his abilities.

Now in terms of squad play revenant he can still perform well, it's just he won't really be able to use his thrall ability effectively and thats it. But in exchange of having to put up with squad mates insta killing your thralls, you get to have 3 extra meat shields who will draw fire away from you indirectly making mesmer skin last longer in a sense. Well that is until your squad mates start getting 1 shotted.  

 

edit: But I do agree with thralls needing to be looked at and tweaked.

Edited September 18, 2018 by (XB1)ultamite hero

[Genoscythe]

il y a une heure, (XB1)ultamite hero a dit :

So far from my tes runs on revenant I was able to solo a fissure survival mission for 2 hours. He performed pretty well not having any issues. Well except for one issue I had which was random lancer grenades ignoring mesmer skin. But other than that he seems pretty solid in a solo scenario being able to make use of all his abilities.

Now in terms of squad play revenant he can still perform well, it's just he won't really be able to use his thrall ability effectively and thats it. But in exchange of having to put up with squad mates insta killing your thralls, you get to have 3 extra meat shields who will draw fire away from you indirectly making mesmer skin last longer in a sense. Well that is until your squad mates start getting 1 shotted.  

 

edit: But I do agree with thralls needing to be looked at and tweaked.

Pretty much every frame can solo 2 hours of survival these days because weapons just got so incredibly strong with rivens (and some without). In squad play it depends. Looking at how other frames can eat level 200 enemies for breakfast with 25-50 energy (Saryn for example is just stupidly OP) or simply do 4x more damage faster and for less energy with a 90% or higher damage resistance (mesa, gara or rhino can reach 200k iron skin too) I feel like revenant needs too much setting up and playing around to get going. But my point is how badly his abilities synergize in reality and how the design philosophy behind them is. I mean one of his abilites has a damage, range and duration stat and only scales with duration. Did you use your 1 and 3 a lot or did you simply put on mesmer skin and went with danse macabre? That's how most people go (including me) afaik, only using the 3 to move around and such, completely ignoring the 1. I must remark that it's also quite ironic that Revenant is supposed to be the frame that struck down the eidolon every night and has no ability that is actually able to damage an eidolon.

[Urlan]

2 hours ago, Genoscythe said:

I think that no life damage while shields are up or a pulse based on max shields would be rather gimmicky, exactly what a proper passive should not be. Shields go donw in one or two shots from mid-level enemies and to make the pulse viable you would have to mod for shields. I understand your point, lore conformity and all, but gameplay goes before lore on this I think.

Can't disagree there, it would be super gimmicky! but in this case, since the warframe doesn't have a reason to have Hunhow's adaptive armor, it doesn't make sense to have it. Any other Eidolon specific passives that are not in the realm of gimmick we could pull from?

[(XBOX)ultamite hero]

3 hours ago, Genoscythe said:

Pretty much every frame can solo 2 hours of survival these days because weapons just got so incredibly strong with rivens (and some without). In squad play it depends. Looking at how other frames can eat level 200 enemies for breakfast with 25-50 energy (Saryn for example is just stupidly OP) or simply do 4x more damage faster and for less energy with a 90% or higher damage resistance (mesa, gara or rhino can reach 200k iron skin too) I feel like revenant needs too much setting up and playing around to get going. But my point is how badly his abilities synergize in reality and how the design philosophy behind them is. I mean one of his abilites has a damage, range and duration stat and only scales with duration. Did you use your 1 and 3 a lot or did you simply put on mesmer skin and went with danse macabre? That's how most people go (including me) afaik, only using the 3 to move around and such, completely ignoring the 1. I must remark that it's also quite ironic that Revenant is supposed to be the frame that struck down the eidolon every night and has no ability that is actually able to damage an eidolon.

I used the 1 for the aggro when needed or to get an ancient healer on my side every so often. I used reave for mobility in danse macabre and to give my sentinel a mesmer skin charge. His 1st ability needs work, but his other 3 abilities are the ones I used the most.

Idk any frame that is capable of doing survivals for 1-2 hours and beyond is pretty solid imo. But like I said the only ability that I think needs to be looked at is his first ability. 

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Revenant is in a great place tbh. He can tank like no other. His abilities perfectly synergize... i mean hes very good.

I barely use his 4 btw. Pretty much only use it when im wanting extra over shields. Hes great in sorties, kuva floods, or 60+ minute kuva survivals... I mean DE really hit the mark with revenant. Hes a great frame.

Edited September 19, 2018 by (PS4)big_eviljak

[axellex]

I for one think he is in a good place.

People keep bringing out the fact that his 1st ability is bad because teammates ruin the ability alright sure? but the ability itself is very damn strong when you don't have allies, like lets face it some 1st abilities are useless regardless of having teammates or not like mesa's 1st ability (Igreat frame btw) but why ever use her 1st? at least with revenant you can use it when teammates are not around.

My only issue is with his passive it actually does nothing if you actively play revenant as rhino basically and that's what is expected out of you just like rhino has to have iron skin always on so does revenant. Now rhino has a passive shockwave that does almost nothing but at least it's an effect you always see while having iron skin on, sure most rhino players will tell you it's garbage passive but at least it's there, you can use it compared to revenant where his passive requires you to not have his mesmer skin and risk taking enough dmg to lose shield and not lose your life as well in the process.

TLDR : Revenant's passive might as well not exist and I'd rather have rhino's passive then nothing at all.

[Messaiga]

13 minutes ago, axellex said:

I for one think he is in a good place.

People keep bringing out the fact that his 1st ability is bad because teammates ruin the ability alright sure? but the ability itself is very damn strong when you don't have allies, like lets face it some 1st abilities are useless regardless of having teammates or not like mesa's 1st ability (Igreat frame btw) but why ever use her 1st? at least with revenant you can use it when teammates are not around.

Just because he is good doesn't mean he can't become a more interesting and enjoyable warframe.  The reason people want to see change is because Revenant can potentially be very fun and different.  Most of the newer and/or reworked frames feel very cohesive, which can be owed in part to all of their abilities being useful on their own and stronger when together.  My favorite examples for this for new frames are Nidus, Harrow, and Gara, while for reworked frames Saryn and Nezha come to mind (not trying to Pablo circlejerk but they are good examples).

I think the bar for what constitutes a well designed warframe has been raised with time and people are starting to expect DE to actually match that quality or surpass it with the newer releases.  And a warframe's strength in-game doesn't correlate with being well designed.

[(XBOX)ultamite hero]

27 minutes ago, axellex said:

I for one think he is in a good place.

People keep bringing out the fact that his 1st ability is bad because teammates ruin the ability alright sure? but the ability itself is very damn strong when you don't have allies, like lets face it some 1st abilities are useless regardless of having teammates or not like mesa's 1st ability (Igreat frame btw) but why ever use her 1st? at least with revenant you can use it when teammates are not around.

My only issue is with his passive it actually does nothing if you actively play revenant as rhino basically and that's what is expected out of you just like rhino has to have iron skin always on so does revenant. Now rhino has a passive shockwave that does almost nothing but at least it's an effect you always see while having iron skin on, sure most rhino players will tell you it's garbage passive but at least it's there, you can use it compared to revenant where his passive requires you to not have his mesmer skin and risk taking enough dmg to lose shield and not lose your life as well in the process.

TLDR : Revenant's passive might as well not exist and I'd rather have rhino's passive then nothing at all.

Yeah overall he's pretty solid except for a few bugs I noticed. For some odd reason when an enemy exceeds revenants EHP while mesmer skin is active he gets 1 shotted. But thats a bug that can be fixed by DE.

[axellex]

45 minutes ago, Messaiga said:

Just because he is good doesn't mean he can't become a more interesting and enjoyable warframe.  The reason people want to see change is because Revenant can potentially be very fun and different.  Most of the newer and/or reworked frames feel very cohesive, which can be owed in part to all of their abilities being useful on their own and stronger when together.  My favorite examples for this for new frames are Nidus, Harrow, and Gara, while for reworked frames Saryn and Nezha come to mind (not trying to Pablo circlejerk but they are good examples).

I think the bar for what constitutes a well designed warframe has been raised with time and people are starting to expect DE to actually match that quality or surpass it with the newer releases.  And a warframe's strength in-game doesn't correlate with being well designed.

Sure but I don't see him getting changed so he has synergies as frames that you mentioned, unfortunately for revenant his abilities as a concept don't really have much leeway like that, maybe they will still tweak numbers but I don't see any extreme changes outside of how he already works.

So if you don't think he is "fun" (is a subjective term) now he wont be fun anywhere down the line unless he gets a complete rework by Pablo.

[Messaiga]

11 minutes ago, axellex said:

Sure but I don't see him getting changed so he has synergies as frames that you mentioned, unfortunately for revenant his abilities as a concept don't really have much leeway like that, maybe they will still tweak numbers but I don't see any extreme changes outside of how he already works.

So if you don't think he is "fun" (is a subjective term) now he wont be fun anywhere down the line unless he gets a complete rework by Pablo.

I think it is definitely possible to make Revenant a more enjoyable frame, and I also agree it would be unreasonable to expect him to become anything like Gara or Nidus.  If you want to know why I personally don't find him enjoyable, it is because 2 out of his 4 abilities actually have legitimate use cases, the other two are semi-useless, and he doesn't bring anything different to the game.  He's Rhino with a nuke button, basically.  But at least Rhino has more depth once you get augment mods (Ironclad Charge into a crowd of enemies -> cast Iron Skin for bigger shield).  
 

Edited September 19, 2018 by Messaiga

[Genoscythe]

Le 20/09/2018 à 01:20, Messaiga a dit :

I think it is definitely possible to make Revenant a more enjoyable frame, and I also agree it would be unreasonable to expect him to become anything like Gara or Nidus.  If you want to know why I personally don't find him enjoyable, it is because 2 out of his 4 abilities actually have legitimate use cases, the other two are semi-useless, and he doesn't bring anything different to the game.  He's Rhino with a nuke button, basically.  But at least Rhino has more depth once you get augment mods (Ironclad Charge into a crowd of enemies -> cast Iron Skin for bigger shield).  
  

Now, with the recent changes on his ability to destroy nullifier bubbles he even lost quite a lot of his value versus this kind of targets, because if you face a nully you have to get out of his 4, which takes time, energy etc. and at the rate nullifiers appear it totally disables you from constant casting. I think DE are missing the point not only lore-wise (adaptable) but also gameplay-wise. While octavia or any exalted weapons smashes enemies for way less energy, revenant maybe has more raw power but an incredible amount less of actual tactical value, which turns out to be of more use when fighting harder opponents. No, CC, no buffs, meager survivability and very squishy, there's not much to with him right now compared to other frames. His synergies are rather plain, too.

[MechaKnight]

DE is afraid of letting Danse Macabre expand because player range potential is too high, and Overextended adds half of all possible range bonuses attainable in a single mod.

[Genoscythe]

il y a 22 minutes, MechaKnight a dit :

DE is afraid of letting Danse Macabre expand because player range potential is too high, and Overextended adds half of all possible range bonuses attainable in a single mod.

Danse macabre is one of the things that DE has tried to avoid most: to trivilize gameplay and create abilites that dont require input. They have stated this several times and yet they ship revvie with exactly what they themselves consider bad. Overextended also wreaks havoc on ability power and thus has its downsides, it's a good mod for the minmaxing that is required in some situations. Danse macabre has a static range of 50M, range only increases beam thickness.

 

Now, however, they made reave scale with range but not power, which hits revenant hard because a 100% viable play style was max duration + STR before so you could deal late-game viable damage while also being able to carry the heavy energy cost. Now, you actually have to sacrifice additional slots for range or your "escape move"/lifeline ability will suck even more. I don't think any of the changes have been QA'd well enough.

[Mu_Gera]

I've recently found out another point that DE has missed with rev, enemies seemingly inherit the remaining duration of the thrall that converts them instead of independently using the modded base duration. This was one of the problem for old spores spreading and it shows on thralls too, since even if your thralls successfully spread to the limit without dying, each one will last less than the one before. 

 

It can be alleviated by just spamming your 1 at once but that gets pretty annoying and a waste of the spread mechanic. Thankfully it's a one handed action.

[Genoscythe]

Il y a 21 heures, -Bv-Concarne a dit :

I've recently found out another point that DE has missed with rev, enemies seemingly inherit the remaining duration of the thrall that converts them instead of independently using the modded base duration. This was one of the problem for old spores spreading and it shows on thralls too, since even if your thralls successfully spread to the limit without dying, each one will last less than the one before. 

 

It can be alleviated by just spamming your 1 at once but that gets pretty annoying and a waste of the spread mechanic. Thankfully it's a one handed action.

I think the spread mechanic is not the problem, but something else should happen when the mechanic runs out on an enemy, like creating another damage zone for every enemy affected at the end of the duration or giving a buff to revenant. I mean the issue with saryn being crazy OP at the moment is exactly that there is no more duration.

[Mu_Gera]

2 hours ago, Genoscythe said:

I think the spread mechanic is not the problem, but something else should happen when the mechanic runs out on an enemy, like creating another damage zone for every enemy affected at the end of the duration or giving a buff to revenant. I mean the issue with saryn being crazy OP at the moment is exactly that there is no more duration.

Won't lie that sounds good and less of a waste but doesn't help the fact that thralls are pretty bad at spreading. Also thralls aren't spores so it wouldn't be as wild. 

 

Also I'm not advocating for no duration, but that converted thralls don't inherit the remaining duration and have their own independent timer instead.

Edited October 13, 2018 by -Bv-Concarne

[--RV--arm4geddon-117]

AS per mentioned 3 prime times ago by REB who said REV was undergoing a second batch of changes/fixes/QoL, those 2 lousy REAVE "modifications " are far from being a SECOND LOOK AT.

Revenant is still unfinished and there's far more to do with that frame, he needs a massive work on much like Khora had , if nothing more.

and Honestly i'd just replace his 3 with something else or change its mechanic drastically, and about his 1st ability just no comment ( to me it could go as well and be replaced with something more sentient / eidolon themed )

His passive is a joke, he should have innate dmg adaptation or mitigation much like the eidolons do or at least have that radial blast range incresed significantly with a higher knock down duration/recovery

Danse Macabre damage types need to be more variegated or changed, vs Infested who cares about the gas, when all of the heavier units are weaker to corrosive

and if Grineers have no armor anymore it should change to viral, and i'd save magnetic & Gas for corpuses.

Ain't no rocket science c'mon

Edited October 14, 2018 by arm4geddon-117

[KennBone]

for me revenant is perfect rigth now, dont think he need any tweak and yes 3 rd skill help alot. khora is the frame who need more tweaks.

[Madway7]

On 2018-09-18 at 5:27 PM, Genoscythe said:

I think that no life damage while shields are up or a pulse based on max shields would be rather gimmicky, exactly what a proper passive should not be. Shields go donw in one or two shots from mid-level enemies and to make the pulse viable you would have to mod for shields. I understand your point, lore conformity and all, but gameplay goes before lore on this I think.

Problem I see with this is that

1. Mesmer Skin still causes large issues with this passive, it won't go off at all unless you either forget to re-up Mesmer Skin or you get damaged from something that ignores it (like self dmg).(or if you get hit while reupping mesmer skin.

2. I'm pretty sure DE isn't willing to give it noticable damage, and it will prob emulate the eidolons and be magnetic damage, which is about the least useful damage type vs enemies than it is compared to using it on us. The eidolons do about 20-25k magnetic damage total with their waves, I doubt they would make revenants passive come even close to that.

3.The only way to gimmick this as I see it would be to self dmg your own shields off, which DE would prob find expoitative and nerf it. (assuming the damage was worthwhile to begin with)

 

While I would like a more eidolon feel to the frame and I would really like to see those pulses, I really don't feel like they would work at all for gameplay. (unless they give the barebones version of this, ie they give the effect, but it pretty much doesnt do anything meaningful)

 

On 2018-09-18 at 7:51 PM, Urlan said:

Can't disagree there, it would be super gimmicky! but in this case, since the warframe doesn't have a reason to have Hunhow's adaptive armor, it doesn't make sense to have it. Any other Eidolon specific passives that are not in the realm of gimmick we could pull from?

Gonna pull the "a sentient/eidolon frame doesn't make sense in the first place" card. So they may aswell give him adaptation as a passive and tweak Mesmer Skin to only work agains damage taken to health so its useful.

 

If that card doesn;t do it for you I'll pull the "he also was reffered as being eidolon/sentient/vampire theme after the initial concept was revealed" card. At this point since he's a mix mash of concepts rather than strictly eidolon themed we may as well pull everything we can from the 3 themes to make him better.

 

On 2018-09-19 at 1:23 AM, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Revenant is in a great place tbh. He can tank like no other. His abilities perfectly synergize... i mean hes very good.

I barely use his 4 btw. Pretty much only use it when im wanting extra over shields. Hes great in sorties, kuva floods, or 60+ minute kuva survivals... I mean DE really hit the mark with revenant. Hes a great frame.

 

5 hours ago, davej83 said:

for me revenant is perfect rigth now, dont think he need any tweak and yes 3 rd skill help alot. khora is the frame who need more tweaks.

An ability that negates damage + ability that heals and restores shields and a synergy that grants you overshields doesn't seem like good synergy to me. (also a passive that requires you to take shield damage to trigger)

his kit doesn't work well together because of this. at least not as a whole.

It it were on Wukong, Reave could work, even if it were on Chroma or Inaros (frames whose tanking allows them to take damage), but not on Revenant.

This is also ignoring that the pillar projectiles draw enemies away from them rather than towards them and Reaves misleading UI not telling you that the number there only applies to thralled enemies. Also the pillar detonation was a petty bad idea.

 

I always hesitate to use the word perfect.

[Urlan]

2 hours ago, Madway7 said:

Problem I see with this is that

1. Mesmer Skin still causes large issues with this passive, it won't go off at all unless you either forget to re-up Mesmer Skin or you get damaged from something that ignores it (like self dmg).(or if you get hit while reupping mesmer skin.

2. I'm pretty sure DE isn't willing to give it noticable damage, and it will prob emulate the eidolons and be magnetic damage, which is about the least useful damage type vs enemies than it is compared to using it on us. The eidolons do about 20-25k magnetic damage total with their waves, I doubt they would make revenants passive come even close to that.

3.The only way to gimmick this as I see it would be to self dmg your own shields off, which DE would prob find expoitative and nerf it. (assuming the damage was worthwhile to begin with)

 

While I would like a more eidolon feel to the frame and I would really like to see those pulses, I really don't feel like they would work at all for gameplay. (unless they give the barebones version of this, ie they give the effect, but it pretty much doesnt do anything meaningful)

 

Gonna pull the "a sentient/eidolon frame doesn't make sense in the first place" card. So they may aswell give him adaptation as a passive and tweak Mesmer Skin to only work agains damage taken to health so its useful.

 

If that card doesn;t do it for you I'll pull the "he also was reffered as being eidolon/sentient/vampire theme after the initial concept was revealed" card. At this point since he's a mix mash of concepts rather than strictly eidolon themed we may as well pull everything we can from the 3 themes to make him better.

 

 

An ability that negates damage + ability that heals and restores shields and a synergy that grants you overshields doesn't seem like good synergy to me. (also a passive that requires you to take shield damage to trigger)

his kit doesn't work well together because of this. at least not as a whole.

It it were on Wukong, Reave could work, even if it were on Chroma or Inaros (frames whose tanking allows them to take damage), but not on Revenant.

This is also ignoring that the pillar projectiles draw enemies away from them rather than towards them and Reaves misleading UI not telling you that the number there only applies to thralled enemies. Also the pillar detonation was a petty bad idea.

 

I always hesitate to use the word perfect.

No, that card doesn't work for me, though I am the one that has said previously in this thread and others that the game has presented that Eidolon (not generalized Sentient but a specific and unique version) can not be mixed with warframe technocyte tech. This is actually core to the Plague Star event as its the reason that we prepare Eidolon Phlyaxis to use the Sentient immunity to Techoncyte against the huge Boil of technocyte. In this case, DE has made a warframe that specifically breaks the lore established to say somehow this warframe Revenant was merged with Eidolon energy - which is fatal to the Warframe, and the Void energy imbued warframe was merged with Sentient elements which are poisonous to the Eidolon Sentient living material as well - so any abilities it has should reflect this particular break from story so far, and reflect this very particular ability set either reflective of the original "Warden" warframe or the Eidolons which do not have Hunhow's so far specific strain of adaptation and defense for himself and his shards. I would say, give Revenant a passive taking from the Eidolons, or one that reflects the warframe's original nature.

I would say Revenant's ability set doesn't work that well because its trying to embody two distinct themes, one a vampire due to the Eidolon nature of being undead Sentient, and the other Eidolons themselves which don't have many of the abilities Revenant is shown to display. Eidolons and in fact, no Sentient has yet shown the ability to control Organic life forms and in fact, this was the point of using the Warframes against Sentient versus higher tech weapons, as the Orokin Elite originally featured. The Sentient can control other tech likely by assimilation or repurposing their Precepts - as Hunhow was doing to Suda in Octavia's Anthem - while Eidolons again don't even show this function as their original core self was killed by what seems to have been a Void Bomb cradled into its core by a Tenno using Gara in the Gara Legend ala Quill Onkko. Perhaps if reworks or augments are eventually made for Revenant, they can try to make sense of this lore to mechanics based dichotomy.

Good observation on the enemies seeming to try to avoid the fire pillar death caused by killing your Thralls. I so far, haven't found the pillars all that useful in all but the most packed hallways. Perhaps if they did the massive damage of the Gantulyst version or had some beneficial nature to players, like healing them if they stood within; though I can't think of a reason for that happening.