Exalted Knuckles...? Do it for the love of Bacon.

[(XBOX)E Da Richard]

Come on now DE, Atlas needs the same treatment Mesa and Excalibur got. Let us mod his 1st abitlity in a similar fashion as Mesa and Excalibur allow us to mod they’re 4th. He needs the freedom to run any Melee without being pigeon holed into using a Impact weapon due to the need for impact mods.

 

Its also apparent that his Rubble armor has 0 scaling in any form or function. No matter your power/armor mods, it’s hard capped at 1500. Same with the Rubble degradation rate and duration mods. Same for the amount of Rubble/Health you recive with armor/efficiency mods.  

 

One of two ways to fix this. Either allow your WF mods to affect the Rubble mechanic or (lazily) just drastically decrease the degradation rate. I’d prefer it if mods had impact on this myself. 

 

Hope this recives a little support for the community and a DE representative would consider forwarding the idea to have it reviewed. But I won’t hold my breath, because in all likelihood I’d probably die.    

 

 

Edited September 19, 2018 by (XB1)YouBitePi11ows

[Loza03]

Whilst I get why they didn't do this for the other 'pseudo exalted' weapons, I do see that Atlas might need an exception to that rule. If I remember rightly, when they showed off that Warframe use data, Atlas was still at the bottom, so he's still in need of love. Having the hard cap be at least affected by mods would go a long way into making Atlas rougher than the rest of them, the best of them, tougher than leather.

[(XBOX)Evilpricetag]

But... its effected by rivens. Its nothing but a nerf unless he gets homing melee exaulted weapons...

[Atsia]

15 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Whilst I get why they didn't do this for the other 'pseudo exalted' weapons, I do see that Atlas might need an exception to that rule. If I remember rightly, when they showed off that Warframe use data, Atlas was still at the bottom, so he's still in need of love. Having the hard cap be at least affected by mods would go a long way into making Atlas rougher than the rest of them, the best of them, tougher than leather.

I actually think him being near the bottom is more so because of his method of acquiring him. I doubt most people have great archwing loadouts, and Jordas is already a hella annoying fight.

[(XBOX)E Da Richard]

34 minutes ago, (XB1)Evilpricetag said:

But... its effected by rivens. Its nothing but a nerf unless he gets homing melee exaulted weapons...

1 Riven isn’t as powerful as a complete build just for his 1 as seen for Mesa or Excalibur. P Pressure, P Heavy Trauma, P Fevor Strike, Collision Force, Spoiled Strike. Those mods alone would add 550% more damage and 165% Toxin damage alone. No Riven gives anything near that much.

It also allows Atlas to run whatever melee you wish without having to worry about spec-ing for his Landslide.

 

See Mesa running with the Pox with full status but her regulators are built for crit as an example. Her Regulators used to be tied directly to whatever mods you had on your secondary’s, forcing you to always run crit weapons to make the most of her 4th. 

Edited September 19, 2018 by (XB1)YouBitePi11ows

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

This should also apply to:

Nezha's Chakram

Gara's Shattered Lash

Khora's Whipclaw

Wukong's Iron Jab

 

[ljmadruga]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

This should also apply to:

Nezha's Chakram

Gara's Shattered Lash

Khora's Whipclaw

Wukong's Iron Jab

 

Nezha’s Chakram is affected by weapon mods?

[(XBOX)E Da Richard]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

This should also apply to:

Nezha's Chakram

Gara's Shattered Lash

Khora's Whipclaw

Wukong's Iron Jab

 

Khora already has it for the Kavat, but I see your point. But unlike all the others you mentioned Atlas is in a “tier” all his own. He’s a pain to get and far less popular than the others since he’s not spectacular at anything.

 

Khoras great for area denial and defense, same goes for Gara. Wukong has troubles not dying and Nez just got love so we will see where he falls.

 

I would like to see Atlas become the insanely tanky (like ice chroma before he was “nerfed”) one punch man of WF, figuratively speaking.

Edited September 19, 2018 by (XB1)YouBitePi11ows

[ReinAxefury]

1 hour ago, (XB1)YouBitePi11ows said:

1 Riven isn’t as powerful as a complete build just for his 1 as seen for Mesa or Excalibur. P Pressure, P Heavy Trauma, P Fevor Strike, Collision Force, Spoiled Strike. Those mods alone would add 550% more damage and 165% Toxin damage alone. No Riven gives anything near that much.

It also allows Atlas to run whatever melee you wish without having to worry about spec-ing for his Landslide.

 

See Mesa running with the Pox with full status but her regulators are built for crit as an example.

1) your first statement is not how damage types stack, ips doesn't add up like extra base damage, its more like elemental mods but for the specific physical damage type.

2) Highest riven disposition can give you over ~330% base damage (Amphis can reach 330% btw), plus base+primed pressure point, that's 565~595% base damage, if we add Spoiled Strike its 665~695% and from there other elements scale, so lets put P Fever Strike+ 3 90% element mods + 150% element as second stat from the riven (585% elemental damage)* (6.95 total base damage) = 4065.75% elemental value, so total value would be 4770.75% the base value, you remove the riven, and you basicaly are doing half of that damage. So the only way to make this change acceptable, would be actually doubling Atlas damage or make it's melee multiplier scale at least as fast as the venka prime does, anything less than that would be a huge nerf.

3) Pure crit on mesa isn't even that greatunless you are killing low level enemies. Status/Crit hybrid is better for enemies where Mesa actually has some time to see them alive.

 

47 minutes ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

This should also apply to:

Nezha's Chakram

Gara's Shattered Lash

Khora's Whipclaw

Wukong's Iron Jab

 

1) Nezha and Wukong cases you give: No. Also Iron Jab case already wukong has his exalted staff modded apart.

2) For Gara and Khora, similar case to what i explained above for the case of Atlas: Making them into exalted weapons is more of a nerf unless their stats are fixed accordingly, and considering how DE handles this things, that's very unlikely. So that's like plainly asking for a nerf.

 

While one can expect that weapons get fixed and therefore used, we know that's not something DE is always willing to do, some weapons are just plain bad or almost nobody wants to use them. In those cases, using those weapons as stat stick actually gives at least some reason to use this weapons (not the best one, but still). I know because i use a few different weapons this way. While some people see this as "sacrificing" a weapon slot, i see it more as a choice, specially when using the frames that use said weapons never have a reason to use their real melee (unless you want to throw a zenistar disk). The only way to fix and make something as making them into their own weapons viable would be a huge buff in base stats, in the case of Khora just base damage wouldn't be enough to reach her current potential as her whip is a crit/status hybrid and Rivens play a huge role on that. In the case of Gara, she's uses raw damage, so doubling here damage would work, for Atlas double damage or increased melee counter scaling (like venka prime).

 

Another note regarding Atlas, on his current state he's good for most of the content in the game. Yet, could use some changes on his skillset for better scaling (currently atlas has a fixed level of tankiness, look at rhino for example, that's a good example of how you can scale a tank frame) or teamplay, but that's for another thread.

 

Edited September 19, 2018 by ReinAxefury
a correction.

[(XBOX)Evilpricetag]

Ty above poster

[(PSN)Seratronix]

.

Edited September 19, 2018 by (PS4)sarahsaurusx2014

[(PSN)Seratronix]

Oh... This argument again

[(XBOX)E Da Richard]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)sarahsaurusx2014 said:

Oh... This argument again

?

Tired of having to choose between a weapon suited for Atlas 1st but useless as a Melee or a good Melee that offers nada to his 1st. The problem has already been corrected on many other frames.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

His Landslide is in a great spot right now.

 

Why would you melee with him? Just grab a decent primary or secondary and punch.

 

The reason he isn't well recieved is literally anything but that really..

* tectonics are a horrible ward

* the cone, range and cost of Pertify is horrific and the 25% loot chance of ore gaze is a joke

 And his rumblers-

*those literally walking obstructions for enemies. They're a joke. Neather do they generate ggro nor do they scale of any damage source except strength when they could literally be using Landslide too.

 

Waaaay off the mark OP.

Edited September 19, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[(PSN)MrNishi]

35 minutes ago, (XB1)YouBitePi11ows said:

?

Tired of having to choose between a weapon suited for Atlas 1st but useless as a Melee or a good Melee that offers nada to his 1st. The problem has already been corrected on many other frames.

Or cover both with a Lacera

Reflex Guard + Mios/Lacera is currently HighestBlock mitigation

Lacera while being 5 Disposition does not quite have the same modifier as Amphis but a Lacera Riven can still be suitable. 

Having frontal Invincibility even when out of range with Landslide works wonders for Atlas Survivability...

 

The real reason to voice a compliant for Exalted modding:

Gun only mission types basically make Atlas' Landslide and Khora's Whipclaw tickle abilities. Neither are proficient at CC and they practically lose their damage capability with no melee weapon being able to contribute.

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

3 hours ago, ReinAxefury said:

1) your first statement is not how damage types stack, ips doesn't add up like extra base damage, its more like elemental mods but for the specific physical damage type.

2) Highest riven disposition can give you over ~330% base damage (Amphis can reach 330% btw), plus base+primed pressure point, that's 565~595% base damage, if we add Spoiled Strike its 665~695% and from there other elements scale, so lets put P Fever Strike+ 3 90% element mods + 150% element as second stat from the riven (585% elemental damage)* (6.95 total base damage) = 4065.75% elemental value, so total value would be 4770.75% the base value, you remove the riven, and you basicaly are doing half of that damage. So the only way to make this change acceptable, would be actually doubling Atlas damage or make it's melee multiplier scale at least as fast as the venka prime does, anything less than that would be a huge nerf.

3) Pure crit on mesa isn't even that greatunless you are killing low level enemies. Status/Crit hybrid is better for enemies where Mesa actually has some time to see them alive.

 

1) Nezha and Wukong cases you give: No. Also Iron Jab case already wukong has his exalted staff modded apart.

2) For Gara and Khora, similar case to what i explained above for the case of Atlas: Making them into exalted weapons is more of a nerf unless their stats are fixed accordingly, and considering how DE handles this things, that's very unlikely. So that's like plainly asking for a nerf.

 

While one can expect that weapons get fixed and therefore used, we know that's not something DE is always willing to do, some weapons are just plain bad or almost nobody wants to use them. In those cases, using those weapons as stat stick actually gives at least some reason to use this weapons (not the best one, but still). I know because i use a few different weapons this way. While some people see this as "sacrificing" a weapon slot, i see it more as a choice, specially when using the frames that use said weapons never have a reason to use their real melee (unless you want to throw a zenistar disk). The only way to fix and make something as making them into their own weapons viable would be a huge buff in base stats, in the case of Khora just base damage wouldn't be enough to reach her current potential as her whip is a crit/status hybrid and Rivens play a huge role on that. In the case of Gara, she's uses raw damage, so doubling here damage would work, for Atlas double damage or increased melee counter scaling (like venka prime).

 

Another note regarding Atlas, on his current state he's good for most of the content in the game. Yet, could use some changes on his skillset for better scaling (currently atlas has a fixed level of tankiness, look at rhino for example, that's a good example of how you can scale a tank frame) or teamplay, but that's for another thread.

 

I'd much rather take the Riven nerf and have the freedom to run whichever melee weapon I want

[ReinAxefury]

1 hour ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

I'd much rather take the Riven nerf and have the freedom to run whichever melee weapon I want

Your perception of "freedom" is just an unnecesary nerf based on the idea of having false options considering that when using frames that require said rivens there is no reason tu use a melee weapon in first place. So i rather take things as they currently work now than see DE waste time doing something that doesn't really solves anything as it will only make said frames less popular considering how harsh people react to nerfs.

[(XBOX)E Da Richard]

52 minutes ago, ReinAxefury said:

Your perception of "freedom" is just an unnecesary nerf based on the idea of having false options considering that when using frames that require said rivens there is no reason tu use a melee weapon in first place. So i rather take things as they currently work now than see DE waste time doing something that doesn't really solves anything as it will only make said frames less popular considering how harsh people react to nerfs.

Having a functional Melee of choice utilizing Life Strike > No Melee and substituting  it with an energy cost.

Not a nerf imo

Building up his 1st with 8 Mods + A functional Melee you actually want to use > Useless Melee that requires a 5/5 Disposition Riven.

Edited September 19, 2018 by (XB1)YouBitePi11ows

[xxswatelitexx]

This is something Atlas could definitely use, as he just don't have the other worthwhile abilities at all.

Run around freezing people as if he is a Tourist taking pictures?

Making a Stone Wall? 

 

Honestly I would have made Atlas far more Meele Combat oriented. 

For example instead of a "wall" He drops a Giant stone Boulder infront of him ( also acts like a wall) if he punches it instead of a useless bolder, giant rock shards fly out causing stun \ impact \ piercing damage and knockdown. 

I would remove ore gaze completely simply because he looks absolutely silly using it. Instead would give him an AoE Aura that causes enemies around him to slowly petrify at 20% per second. When they stand still completely they are turned into a rock for 5s. 

[(XBOX)E Da Richard]

2 hours ago, xxswatelitexx said:

This is something Atlas could definitely use, as he just don't have the other worthwhile abilities at all.

Run around freezing people as if he is a Tourist taking pictures?

Making a Stone Wall? 

 

Honestly I would have made Atlas far more Meele Combat oriented. 

For example instead of a "wall" He drops a Giant stone Boulder infront of him ( also acts like a wall) if he punches it instead of a useless bolder, giant rock shards fly out causing stun \ impact \ piercing damage and knockdown. 

I would remove ore gaze completely simply because he looks absolutely silly using it. Instead would give him an AoE Aura that causes enemies around him to slowly petrify at 20% per second. When they stand still completely they are turned into a rock for 5s. 

I would keep the wall but triple the size, when you activate it again or when it’s destroyed it explodes, impact damage forced knockdown and puncture proc, and for every enemy hit it generates 1 Rubble pile. The Augment would work with this as it is.

 

Augment change for Landslide, your current Rubble armor is added to your landslides base damage.

 

Ore gaze to ore Aura, make it a small radius with a long duration, enemies touched by the aura have a 50% (doesn’t scale)chance per second to be petrified. While Actice your Rubble armors decay rate is reduced by 20% (this DOES scale)

 

Augment change for Ore Gaze. Petrified enemies killed have a 25% chance to drop a heath globe, Energy globe AND additional Rubble Pile.

 

Rumblers, last until they die & petrify enemies when the take or deal Melee damage.

 

Make his Rubble scale with WF mods & add a separate load out for his fists like Mesa Regulators or Excaliburs blade.

Edited September 19, 2018 by (XB1)YouBitePi11ows

[ReinAxefury]

44 minutes ago, (XB1)YouBitePi11ows said:

Having a functional Melee of choice utilizing Life Strike > No Melee and substituting  it with an energy cost.

or you can just use Magus elevate/pizzas/medi-ray and use an actual useful mod instead that waste of a mod slot that also costs energy to use.

46 minutes ago, (XB1)YouBitePi11ows said:

Not a nerf imo

It's a nerf and i alreade explained why. Whatever is your opinion doesn't change that.

47 minutes ago, (XB1)YouBitePi11ows said:

Building up his 1st with 8 Mods + A functional Melee you actually want to use > Useless Melee that requires a 5/5 Disposition Riven.

So in your opinion, it's ok that Atlas does half the damage it does now so you can use your other melee weapon (which there is no reason to use in first place considering how the skill works). Doesn't matter if that's not what you intend to do, it's what implies. I already explained that, i already explained that DE would need to do to solve it, and i already said i don't trust they do that based on how past reworks ended, they like this "50-50" mentality, Look at Oberon renewal+Nekros Shadows of the Dead, look at exalted weapons having no mod capacity from stances, look what they did to Vauban and his "charged balls". There you have a tendency, and there's more examples, those are just some notorious. Rather than wasting effort into a nerf that doesn't do anything helpful i would rather take a rework to his skillset. There's many ways on how DE could improve Atlas, but certainly what this thread is looking in first place isn't one of them, not with this change alone at least.

Want a good rework?

-Just remove or greatly increase the armor cap for rubble. Armor scaling falls quite fast anyway so you need to keep up your kills/s to actually scale to something strong. 2700 armor = 90% damage reduction, 5700 = 95% damage reduction, 11700 = 97,5% and so on. (reduction = armor / (armor+300)  )

- Remove Atlas shield and increase base health.  Shields suck for most tanky frames.

- Let Landslide distance be affected by stats (duration/range).

- Change Tectonics into some area buff actually useful for teamplay (and for Atlas himself): ex: more melee damage/melee bypass armor/%damage reduction/fixed amount of extra armor.

- "Pokemon snap" now is an Aura around Atlas based on duration. Synergy: Petrified/Frozen/Vitrified enemies affected by new Atlas 2 are affected by procs (like limbo's stasis).

- Rumblers, now they absorb damage for a few secs and add it to their health pool the same way as Rhino's Iron Skin, Frost's Snow Globe, etc. And now they scale with enemy level. Bypassing armor or scaling the damage would be options for higher levels, but even increased survivavility would be good for using them as decoys, also make his augment actually get aggro, look at how Saryn's 2 works now, it's like a magnet for bullets.

[(XBOX)E Da Richard]

4 minutes ago, ReinAxefury said:

 

It's a nerf and i alreade explained why. Whatever is your opinion doesn't change that.

You explained how a high Disposition Riven loss  (+300%) would be a nerf, in response I stated I’d rather take that nerf and have to option to run whatever Melee I choose rather than be stuck with a useless Melee that only serves as a stat boost. 

Look at the post above yours to get a better idea of how this “nerf” debate can end by simply adding your current Rubble armor to your landslides base damage and allowing it to scale.

[ReinAxefury]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)YouBitePi11ows said:

You explained how a high Disposition Riven loss  (+300%) would be a nerf, in response I stated I’d rather take that nerf and have to option to run whatever Melee I choose rather than be stuck with a useless Melee that only serves as a stat boost. 

And my first reply to you was the statement that your perception of freedom regarding Atlas and his weapons is just unnecessary and give's no real benefit to Atlas, instead it's the illusion of having a choice you don't really need in the first place at the cost of half of his damage output.

9 minutes ago, (XB1)YouBitePi11ows said:

Look at the post above yours to get a better idea of how this “nerf” debate can end by simply adding your current Rubble armor to your landslides base damage and allowing it to scale.

Yeah, sounds great on paper, but i already said i don't think DE would do it, and i already explained why. Based on how DE acted in past reworks, you'll get a middle point between what they want, what people want, nobody is going to be satisfied but they'll just get over with it and move on (Ember and Vauban wants to say hi btw). If they touch Landslide, i would expect it to be a change in mechanics or making it modable as an exalted weapon, but not both and quite frankly i rather not see them touch it at all if that's how it's gonna be. I would like to be wrong about it, but i don't have high hopes for that.

[(XBOX)E Da Richard]

36 minutes ago, ReinAxefury said:

And my first reply to you was the statement that your perception of freedom regarding Atlas and his weapons is just unnecessary and give's no real benefit to Atlas, instead it's the illusion of having a choice you don't really need in the first place at the cost of half of his damage output

Much much less than half your total damage if it’s a function Melee you’ll actually use in between smashing faces with Landslide. Not to mention the ability to use Healing Return or Life Strike. Healing Return actually suits him well since 11 hp to him is effectively 100+ hp to most other WFs.

 

The only way it’s anyway near the downgrade your suggesting is to grab a MR fodder Melee, with a 5/5 Disposition and outright loosing a weapon, to power up his 1st, to use as his only Melee option, that also costs energy. That is completely impractical and unacceptable. However you nor I created this problem...

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

Exalted Knuckles feels more like it would be fitting for a new martial arts themed warframe. I've always wanted a grappler frame, though. One that does supplexes and pile drivers.

Atlas is like Titania right now. Only 1 of 4 abilities is usable. I remember using him before any reworks. He can out damage everyone on a sortie 3 eximus stronghold exterminate. Even survive properly because Landslide gives him iframes. But that's it. Sometimes I use him to grind syndicate standing on Hydron but for anything else, he doesn't work past anything that can't be punched away.

If I was gonna rework his rubble mechanic, instead of having it be extra armor, make it an over health mechanic. When his HP goes below 2, make all damage be directed to his rubble stash the same way how Quick Thinking diverts damage to energy. Since enemies will be made to drop rubble all the time, he'll be pretty tanky.

Get rid of the health on Bulwark and make it duration based. Make his rumblers do Landslide like he does. His 3 is actually okay. Its instant hard CC. Would be better if didn't cost as much energy.