OmegaZeroKool

Selling rivens can cause you to have negative plat

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[DE] recently when trying to login yesterday I was surprised with a "your account is ban due to negative plat balance' at first I thought this was just a error and checked my bank account since I just bought some plat last week and the forums say that the bank might of accidentally backed charged the plat and just required for the player to re purchase the plat. Not to be mean but your support team only know one thing and one thing only and that's send players a template saying to buy plat to get your account back. I have been playing for many hours and collected many rare mods that sell for a high price in the warframe trading market and seems the second things that could of happen was another player buying a riven (Lanka) and then cancelling their plat purchase screwing me over since I was the one that had the plat in the end after making the sale. I have gone online and noticed I am not the only player who has run into the scam act and became a victim that now ends up with a negative balance because another player decided to scam me and now im stuck with their tab. If your going to punish victims for others act maybe just take down the trading system from the game period. I am sure I am not the only person or the last person who will become a victim to others actions and will lead to loosing players because of this. Per your support team it seems I can never get a real person to reply to my messages and lead me to let go of my account because of this. Please fix this because this is a great game but this flaw will lead to many players question if trading is going to be safe especially when items that cost over 1k plat actually exist in this game.

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unfortunately, it's a common problem. Whoever you traded with might have issued a charge back and all the plat they bought it forcibly taken out, which negatively affects everyone else, and unfortunately doesn't really penalize the perp. only recommendation is to not spend any plat you earned through a trade for a couple days just to make sure

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2 minutes ago, LordOfScrugging said:

unfortunately doesn't really penalize the perp

It does, and the perp's main account too.

@OP 

I think you can ask support to revert the trade. Some screenshots would help.

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Just now, (PS4)iQuedas said:

 

I think you can ask support to revert the trade. Some screenshots would help.

Unfortunately support has no control of trades, this is specifically mentioned that no trades are enforced when entering trade chat. I wouldn't get hopes up unfortunately.

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if i remember the maximum charge back time is more then a month... don't remember the exact time though.. so if you wait only two or three days they could still hit you

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The sad part is the only transaction I have done recently is buying 1000k plat from warframe with my 75% off and prior to that it was over 2 months now that I sold my lanka riven for over 1k to a player and waited 3 weeks before spending anything. This is making other players I know now question their trading market and sucks because their support team feels like infinite loop of them saying " you bought the plat so now pay us". I have seen founders account also fall victim to this from other chat forums I found and even making them just let go the accounts since like my self.. they reached end game but now scammed out of plat I purchased with my money and other cosmetics that were purchased thru the steam market. The trading system is beyond unfair and should not ban players that are victims.

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9 minutes ago, Mr.SpookSpook said:

I never trade anything over 100p with players below mr10...

😞 I was buying vaulted primes off people around MR 5/6. You would have made me sad panda if I had run into you.

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5 minutes ago, (XB1)ultamite hero said:

If the issue becomes widespread enough DE is going to have to do something to fix this.

The fix is simple. Just leave the plat alone and ban the person who did the chargeback until the repay for the plat. This way DE still gets their money and the victims dont loose their plat or account

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4 minutes ago, KubrowTamer said:

The fix is simple. Just leave the plat alone and ban the person who did the chargeback until the repay for the plat. This way DE still gets their money and the victims dont loose their plat or account

Then there would be no punishment for doing it, though, for anyone.

Then it would just be a situation where you don't have to pay for any plat you buy, unless you get caught, then you pay as normal. There would be very little reason, other than my good will, to not just issue a chargeback every time I buy plat, if the only punishment is that I have to pay.

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9 minutes ago, KubrowTamer said:

The fix is simple. Just leave the plat alone and ban the person who did the chargeback until the repay for the plat. This way DE still gets their money and the victims dont loose their plat or account

That's still iffy, fake credit card numbers that run by the bank are rampant.
Plus I don't think thats how chargebacks work, they have to take back the amount bought instantly.

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6 minutes ago, SweatyFalcon said:

That's still iffy, fake credit card numbers that run by the bank are rampant.
Plus I don't think thats how chargebacks work, they have to take back the amount bought instantly.

The person bought the plat and charged it back so you take all that plat from their account regardless of if they gave it away or not and ban them until they repay it. Nobody else that traded for that plat bought it so they shouldn't get punished for having it.

 

13 minutes ago, rune_me said:

Then there would be no punishment for doing it, though, for anyone.

Then it would just be a situation where you don't have to pay for any plat you buy, unless you get caught, then you pay as normal. There would be very little reason, other than my good will, to not just issue a chargeback every time I buy plat, if the only punishment is that I have to pay.

Your account would be banned until you repaid for the plat. That is the punishment. This way they are forced to pay for it. And if they do it multiple times just perma ban them and be done with it.

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1 minute ago, KubrowTamer said:

Your account would be banned until you repaid for the plat. That is the punishment. This way they are forced to pay for it. And if they do it multiple times just perma ban them and be done with it.

Being forced to pay for something you bought is not a punishment.

If I wanted to buy 1000 plat, I might as well just issue a chargeback. What's the worst that could happen? That I had to pay for it.

The only sensible punishment is an instant permaban, which is how it works now, I'm pretty sure.

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Tbf, this can happen to anyone and is not necessarily limited to Rivens. In theory, you could sell a 10p mod and end up with negative plat too, and banned.

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Does anyone know which platform suffers the most with this? I don't think this happens a lot on PS4, because you'd get your PS4 account banned/blocked as well if one does a chargeback.

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1 minute ago, (PS4)iQuedas said:

Does anyone know which platform suffers the most with this? I don't think this happens a lot on PS4, because you'd get your PS4 account banned/blocked as well if one does a chargeback.

Yeah. Plus Sony and Microsoft has legal teams in any country in the world to quickly reach out to banks to contest charge backs if they feel they are unfair. It's perfectly possible to have a charge back reversed, if you can provide proof that you delivered the product that was paid for.

So it's mostly a PC problem, since DE doesn't have those kind of resources.

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The sad part is DE is aware of this and still have not come up with a solution. The only solution right now is to open a ticket and prey that it would get resolved but that never happens since I have opened 3 tickets before and all lead to no resolution in the past. Right now the only option I have is to buy another packet of plat worth $50 us dollars in order to cover the charge back the player cost me and still end up loosing the item they purchased from me. This system is extremely unfair and hate to say but might be the last time I play since I really dont think its fair to punish victims for something they have no control over.

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8 minutes ago, OmegaZeroKool said:

The sad part is DE is aware of this and still have not come up with a solution. The only solution right now is to open a ticket and prey that it would get resolved but that never happens since I have opened 3 tickets before and all lead to no resolution in the past. Right now the only option I have is to buy another packet of plat worth $50 us dollars in order to cover the charge back the player cost me and still end up loosing the item they purchased from me. This system is extremely unfair and hate to say but might be the last time I play since I really dont think its fair to punish victims for something they have no control over.

The great majority of cases could honestly be solved just by selling plat through Steam and then let Valve deal with the problem, since like Sony and Microsoft, they have a lot more experience with it.

But that would of course mean that either DE would loose some money (since Steam would take a cut of sales) or they'd have to raise prices a bit. And that everyone on PC had to use Steam. But it's still much better, in my opinion, than the current situation.

Edited by rune_me
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the fact that DE is letting such a huge issue in their system for so long is... sickening. it's not even a bug or a gameplay problem, it's litterally banning someone's account because THEIR system is flawed. DE is usually top notch, but in this particular case of player help, they are completely down the barrel.

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I read thru the suggested thread as well.

1:) I have to say that to ban the victims of this is extremely immoral.

2:) There are no real world comparisons that fit this, as fraud in real life almost always involves physical assets at some point which take time to recover, if they're able to recover them at all.

3:)The fix is fairly straight forward: total reversal on all trades with the fraudulent plat. A small program can be created to keep track of all of it and do it automatically, and simply send a message to those involved on what happened. This can be done in seconds after a chargeback occurs.

4:) The fact that this has been going on for over a month is frightening. All of the suggestions in that other post on how to protect yourself should only be temporary precautions. If they become commonplace they will devastate the game economy.

New players will be universally untrusted and will find it more and more difficult to buy stuff.

Since the scams are also being done by higher MR people too, less and less people will be willing to trade, period.

Having a plat buffer in your account long term is an absurd thing to expect people to have. This isn't real life where it's wise to have a buffer in your savings account for emergencies and for long term savings. This is a game, most people are unwilling to have buffers.

5:) Not fixing this problem ASAP can be extremely problematic. If this type of scam becomes more commonplace, DE is in very real danger of losing their entire business. As it is, a lot of the victims being banned have already spent money on the game and are now unwilling to spend anymore on it.  Many more people will simply stop buying plat. I know I'm certainly less willing to buy plat now, or even sell stuff. This can cause a cascading effect. The game may not exist in a year because of this.  Game economy crashes are difficult to recover from in general, and if the crash itself goes on for even a month or two, I'm not so sure DE has enough reserves or know how to recover from that.

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