JackFraust Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 I recently saw the stats on the Gram Prime and I honestly cannot see how this weapon is NOT overpowered. Gram Prime is literally better than the Galatine Prime in almost every way and not just its stats, but its Riven Disposition as well. Galatine Prime has a 20% Critical Chance and a 20% Status Chance with a RD of 1, while the newly released Gram Prime has 32% Critical and Status Chance with a RD of 5. There is no way I can see this weapon being any classed any lower than a God Weapon. If someone has a Gram Riven that gives Critical Chance and Status Chance, that Gram Prime would easily reach 100% on both stats with little modding needed. I don't care if this weapon is suppose to be the "Father of Swords". This weapon's stats look like they were made blindfolded. In my opinion, Galatine's and Gram's RDs need to be flipped, at the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kialandi Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 It's the same as Tiberon Prime. I would expect some Riven Disposition changes in the near future. Perhaps when Fortuna arrives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoisonHD Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 I saw some people saying it was changed, then other saying it wasn't. There may be a visual bug on it, have the actual stats of Gram rivens been changed at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Skippy575 Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 I saw today in the patch notes that the Gram Prime was fixed to have the same disposition as vanilla Gram. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teshin_Dax Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 it is a melee weapon… and the galatine still has more range. Wow, the most useless weapon got a superior prime version and now rocks the game.. how awful *sarcastic* Any more complains? Maybe that the sun is shining while you Play pc inside your house and now feel guilty? Seriously, it doesnt affect anyone badly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiabolusUrsus Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 Note that the Gram Prime has a MR requirement of 14, which is one of the highest ever. More importantly, the overall melee weapon rebalance of stats + mastery requirements is still pending the release of Melee 3.0. For example, when the rebalance hits it is entirely possible that the Galatine Prime will get better stats if its MR requirement is increased. However, the disposition is yet another example of why basing Riven disposition off of popularity rather than base stats and using the same disposition across all variants were horrible design decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 (edited) The best way to improve the game: ❌Suggesting improvements to bad weapons to improve the gaming experience by targeting solutions with constructive and civilized discussions. ✔️Asking to destroy the few viable weapons to eventually say there is no good weapons like a crybaby. And no one noticed that Gram Prime came with rework 3.0 stats, sad... but yeah, lets destroy everything!! no one can have a better weapon than you! Edited September 26, 2018 by Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purity Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 1 hour ago, Peter said: The best way to improve the game: ❌Suggesting improvements to bad weapons to improve the gaming experience by targeting solutions with constructive and civilized discussions. ✔️Asking to destroy the few viable weapons to eventually say there is no good weapons like a crybaby. And no one noticed that Gram Prime came with rework 3.0 stats, sad... but yeah, lets destroy everything!! no one can have a better weapon than you! Peterrrr xD And yea, I gotta disagree with the OP here. I think we are deserving of a weapon with these stats. It's not like its the perfect weapon. Slow and low range, and rn the combo counter is hella slow (still not sure if gimmick or not but it renders that part of it useless). Argo it has to rely on its base cc and sc instead of a combo multiplier. But above all that, should de just scrap the this weapon getting hella appreciation, because it does better than your weapon? And why are you even complaining before melee 3.0? there will be changes, so whats the big deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaxma Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Peter said: The best way to improve the game: ❌Suggesting improvements to bad weapons to improve the gaming experience by targeting solutions with constructive and civilized discussions. ✔️Asking to destroy the few viable weapons to eventually say there is no good weapons like a crybaby. And no one noticed that Gram Prime came with rework 3.0 stats, sad... but yeah, lets destroy everything!! no one can have a better weapon than you! That would actually be a viable thing if the game wasn't already easy enough as it is. I can play this game with my butt over how easy it is. Nothing in this game is remotely challenging and largely sits on novelty of new weapons and toys over deep, challenging content. It can't be "challenging" and not total BS at the same time because the nature of the game is essentially a stat-check at heart despite one's personal ability, so you'll get to a point where the enemies completely and totally will overwhelm you eventually. People "crying" over nerfing weapons are basically subconsciously asking for challenging content by creating a situation that makes existing methods more difficult than they are currently. That's what this is about. Edited September 27, 2018 by Xaxma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OvisCaedo Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 (edited) Heavy Blades as a category have just been a power creep incarnation for a while now. Galatine Prime was already just Scindo Prime but better in every way. I guess in this case the riven disposition just makes it especially hilarious and really strongly illustrates how bad their upkeep of the system has turned out, much like tiberon prime did. Bonus points for the fact that melee weapons as a whole tend to play almost exactly the same as each other within their category much more than guns do. A lot of this might get changed eventually, but for now? I honestly think DE is just doing this on purpose to let the riven market for it go insane. also: no, the gram prime is not using "melee 3.0" stats, it just has a bugged combo multiplier that's going to be fixed. Edited September 27, 2018 by OvisCaedo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)ALTBOULI Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 10 hours ago, blkdrag said: I recently saw the stats on the Gram Prime and I honestly cannot see how this weapon is NOT overpowered. Gram Prime is literally better than the Galatine Prime in almost every way and not just its stats, but its Riven Disposition as well. Galatine Prime has a 20% Critical Chance and a 20% Status Chance with a RD of 1, while the newly released Gram Prime has 32% Critical and Status Chance with a RD of 5. There is no way I can see this weapon being any classed any lower than a God Weapon. If someone has a Gram Riven that gives Critical Chance and Status Chance, that Gram Prime would easily reach 100% on both stats with little modding needed. I don't care if this weapon is suppose to be the "Father of Swords". This weapon's stats look like they were made blindfolded. In my opinion, Galatine's and Gram's RDs need to be flipped, at the least. Saw the stats, but have you actually used the weapon before making this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keetsune Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 (edited) 12 hours ago, blkdrag said: they were made blindfolded. Like half of content 😄 12 hours ago, Teshin_Dax said: and the galatine still has more range. They have absoluteley the same range. Galatine is 20% faster and this is the only advanatage which is neglegible. Edited September 27, 2018 by Keetsune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinKenshin Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 I wish people would understand that OP PA weapons = more purchases >___> Chroma is a general let down, so it only makes sense that the supporting items in the PA needs to step up the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Lei-Lei_23 Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 Just putting a Berserker on Gram Prime and achieving 1.40 Attack Speed on max stack is still slow af. Hits like a truck, but if the enemy can unload a full magazine on you while you rev up your second or third swing, you’re dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callback Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 (edited) The weapon stats are fine, it's just the riven disposition that needs a look. All weapons that have gotten an upgraded version since rivens were last re-balanced (HOW long ago?) need a look. This case just stands out because they primed an obsolete completely underpowered weapon into strong modern stats, but completely ignored the fact that it also inherited the (deserved) 1.44 disposition from its weakling cousin. Edited September 27, 2018 by Callback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buttaface Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 (edited) 12 hours ago, (PS4)ALTBOULI said: Saw the stats, but have you actually used the weapon before making this thread? Of course not. Else the OP would know that a) gram prime has a short range compared to many other options, even primed reach doesn't boost it that much, b) gram prime has an annoying ragdoll effect using Tempo Royale, and is not very good for Cleaving Whirlwind, c) gram prime is sloooooow, requires either frame powers or two mod/arcane sources of speed to be even usable, d) custom fast zaws with exodia hunt that gram can't equip are still better in every way I have tested other than "on paper." Gram Prime is essentially the heavy blade version of Arca Titron, also more powerful than gram prime due to it's CO boosting electric proc that also functions as "hold in place" CC, it's high hammer finisher multiplier, and its damage/range boosting slam special. Did people gripe about Arca Titron when it came out? Not IIRC, they praised it. and Arca Titron is not even a primed weapon. Gram Prime is fine, a good, balanced weapon. Whips are still king of anything under level 100, and zaws kick in somewhere above that depending on what frame powers are at play. Gram Prime, even with its high riven disposition, is a sidegrade to zaws, damage overkill with range and speed tradeoffs, and that's what balance is and should be. Edited September 27, 2018 by Buttaface Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keetsune Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 (edited) 9 hours ago, Buttaface said: Of course not. Else the OP would know that a) gram prime has a short range compared to many other options, even primed reach doesn't boost it that much, b) gram prime has an annoying ragdoll effect using Tempo Royale, and is not very good for Cleaving Whirlwind, c) gram prime is sloooooow, requires either frame powers or two mod/arcane sources of speed to be even usable, d) custom fast zaws with exodia hunt that gram can't equip are still better in every way I have tested other than "on paper." Gram Prime is essentially the heavy blade version of Arca Titron, also more powerful than gram prime due to it's CO boosting electric proc that also functions as "hold in place" CC, it's high hammer finisher multiplier, and its damage/range boosting slam special. Did people gripe about Arca Titron when it came out? Not IIRC, they praised it. and Arca Titron is not even a primed weapon. Gram Prime is fine, a good, balanced weapon. Whips are still king of anything under level 100, and zaws kick in somewhere above that depending on what frame powers are at play. Gram Prime, even with its high riven disposition, is a sidegrade to zaws, damage overkill with range and speed tradeoffs, and that's what balance is and should be. Stop spreading missinformation: I've put timestamps in video description for easy navigation. Both weapons has absolutely the same range, more than that they have absolutely the same moveset and behavior. P.S. With 230% range on your 5/5 disposition Riven Gram Prime will achieve near 10m range. Edited September 28, 2018 by Keetsune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallen_Echo Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 On 2018-09-27 at 12:13 AM, DiabolusUrsus said: However, the disposition is yet another example of why basing Riven disposition off of popularity rather than base stats and using the same disposition across all variants were horrible design decisions. Popularity would have been a good idea if DE would not try to top everything with a better version. If this weapon would came with the basic neutral disposition and later when enough people used it, would have gained its true popularity based disposition we wont have this many problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiabolusUrsus Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 12 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said: Popularity would have been a good idea if DE would not try to top everything with a better version. Which, considering this is an F2P game subsisting on micro-transactions, is an inevitability. 12 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said: If this weapon would came with the basic neutral disposition and later when enough people used it, would have gained its true popularity based disposition we wont have this many problems. This would require DE to actually update the dispositions regularly (ideally automatically) based on usage statistics. However, they've shot themselves in the foot by failing to regulate the Riven trading economy from the beginning. They will inevitably be faced with huge backlash when nerfing dispositions simply because of how much plat has changed hands in some of these transactions. Why else do you think changes have been so minimal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallen_Echo Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 1 minute ago, DiabolusUrsus said: This would require DE to actually update the dispositions regularly (ideally automatically) based on usage statistics. However, they've shot themselves in the foot by failing to regulate the Riven trading economy from the beginning. They will inevitably be faced with huge backlash when nerfing dispositions simply because of how much plat has changed hands in some of these transactions. Why else do you think changes have been so minimal? I always said it that the popularity based disposition is only good if it has a point where the adjustments stop completely. For example lets take the synoid simulor. Currently it has faint disposition and due to its nerf it become extremely underused. The logical step would be to continously raise its disposition till the moment it reaches an acceptable usage percentage across the playerbase than when we reached that point the disposition is freezed till the next buffing/nerfing. Same goes for every other riven, when the acceptable usage percentage is reached the disposition is freezed and stays that way till the next balance attempt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)KayAitch Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 (edited) On 2018-09-26 at 10:23 PM, blkdrag said: Gram Prime is literally better than the Galatine Prime in almost every way and not just its stats, but its Riven Disposition as well. Galatine Prime has a 20% Critical Chance and a 20% Status Chance with a RD of 1, while the newly released Gram Prime has 32% Critical and Status Chance with a RD of 5. There is no way I can see this weapon being any classed any lower than a God Weapon. If someone has a Gram Riven that gives Critical Chance and Status Chance, that Gram Prime would easily reach 100% on both stats with little modding needed. It's extremely slow (which really matters if you're stacking status or crit chances - faster = more often = more procs) and relatively low range for a heavy weapon. I can definitely build a Zaw with higher DPS, once you factor in speed. Plus the slam effect pushes enemies away, which is a little annoying. Oh, and the combo count still appears to be bugged. It is an amazing weapon though, deserving of its MR14 restriction. On a Riven you want speed and range, but get both of those and a trivial negative (say damage to infested) and it would become truly godlike, at least until they review Riven dispositions and nerf it. Edited September 28, 2018 by (XB1)KayAitch Autocorrect typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiabolusUrsus Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Fallen_Echo said: *snip* Sure, that's ideal, but it erroneously assumes that baseline stats are the only factors affecting weapon choice. It would instead be easier to balance the disposition around bringing each individual weapon up to top-tier performance. Then changes would only be needed when the base stats change due to rebalancing... And could be handled simultaneously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
000l000 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 Tbh Gram prime is mostly lazy design, when a weapon is better than almost everything else in all departments we have some serious design issues. Low speed as its only flaw isn't interesting since mods can easily buff speed and with such a riven disposition it can get insane speed anyway. Something should be done with riven disposition though cause having a brand new overpowered weapon with 5 disposition doesn't make any sense. Prime should come with disposition changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buttaface Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 (edited) On 28/09/2018 at 2:11 AM, Keetsune said: Stop spreading missinformation: I've put timestamps in video description for easy navigation. Both weapons has absolutely the same range, more than that they have absolutely the same moveset and behavior. P.S. With 230% range on your 5/5 disposition Riven Gram Prime will achieve near 10m range. You stop with the straw man. Quite a lot of effort to "disprove" something I plainly didn't say, as the thread demonstrates. Quote me claiming that Gram Prime has less range than Galatine Prime. I didn't. Gram P has mediocre range compared to zaw polearms and staves, currently the most powerful high level melee weapons in the game notwithstanding whips under frame power buffs. Whips not buffed by frame powers > Gram Prime on ~lvl 100 mobs on down (90% or more of the game). Whips buffed by frame powers > Gram Prime on significantly higher level mobs. Gram Prime is at BEST a sidegrade to exodia enhanced zaw polearms and staves. Gram Prime is at BEST a sidegrade to Arca Titron, not even a primed weapon. This is due to Arca's more favorable, CO buffing electric procs, higher finisher multiple, and augmented slam damage. Not to mention that Crushing Ruin combines the best combos of two heavy blade stances into ONE stance. Personally, I prefer Arca Titron over Gram P regardless of disposition, and I have tested five top end rivens on the Gram so far, but that's a matter of opinion. Others may prefer Gram and that's fine... but SIDEGRADE AT BEST. I didn't see much if any inane "power creep" complaints about Arca Titron. Did I miss it? Edited September 29, 2018 by Buttaface Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrBorris Posted September 30, 2018 Share Posted September 30, 2018 On 2016-11-14 at 6:04 PM, [DE]Rebecca said: Warframe content will not be balanced around Riven Mods, but Riven Mods will be balanced within their own ecosystem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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