THE DRAGON KING: A Chroma Rework Concept [UPDATE 11/17/2018: Warframe Strategy Layer/Syndicate Expansion concept]

[Endrian]

More thoughts, because when they start coming, they don't stop coming:

PROUD ROAR TAP/HOLD FUNCTIONALITY: Another possibility—Proud Roar, when tapped, will not consume Pride Stacks, but will also not use the Pride multiplier. However, if you hold the ability key to charge up for a full second or more, briefly revealing Chroma's wings, it will increase (double?) the attack's visual size and affectable radius (explosion radius for Heat, cone angle for Cold, splash/puddle size for Toxin, secondary arc length for Electric) and consume the aforementioned Pride stacks. Think of Godzilla charging his nuclear ray breath.

Added to the OP as usual.

[RevanGarcia]

Umbra Path should have its own thread, I like it, it has potential.

[Endrian]

Cleaned up the first post a little more, moved things around, like the Greed alternative passive so it's in Tier II and Tier III's passive is just the Pride idea, alongside grammar and other sentence fixes.

I still need to come up with concept art for the Pride gauge/elemental wheel.

[VoidWraith]

@Endrian I missed you. Still wished your concept was in the game instead of the current Chroma.

But anyway, back to your thread.
I like the Ruinous Effigy concept, as well as the operator concept. The Umbral Schools seem interesting as well.

[Endrian]

8 hours ago, VoidWraith said:

@Endrian I missed you. Still wished your concept was in the game instead of the current Chroma.

Honestly, I was waiting for Chroma Prime before I came back.  The visual design on it blew me away, couldn't resist returning. It was enough to even make me shell out for the full Prime Access package, and I've never gone beyond just the accessory packs before.

[Endrian]

CHIMERA SPOILERS AHEAD

Spoiler

I'll be honest, when I saw Paracesis being constructed by Ballas, I genuinely wondered if they were about to introduce a Sentient-slaying sword specifically for the Operator, which is half of what I was aiming for with my Umbra Path concept.

"Well, damn, they were way ahead of me," I thought.

But, nope, it's just another Warframe sword, so there's still an opening for Operator-only melee weapons to go with their ranged. The Umbra Path concept unaffected and doesn't need to be altered just yet.

 

[HugintheCrow]

3 hours ago, Endrian said:

CHIMERA SPOILERS AHEAD

  Hide contents

I'll be honest, when I saw Paracesis being constructed by Ballas, I genuinely wondered if they were about to introduce a Sentient-slaying sword specifically for the Operator, which is half of what I was aiming for with my Umbra Path concept.

"Well, damn, they were way ahead of me," I thought.

But, nope, it's just another Warframe sword, so there's still an opening for Operator-only melee weapons to go with their ranged. The Umbra Path concept unaffected and doesn't need to be altered just yet.

 

I thought the same thing. It's still pretty cool.

Spoiler

And then I forma'd it and my brain exploded.

 

[Endrian]

[AlphaPHENIX]

The Operator suit...I want it and I want it now, especialliy the hood.

[Loza03]

Ok, the Chroma rework is good. But I can't focus on it because of the awesome Operator rework idea.

I suppose that when the Arc Blade is sheathed that Void Blast takes the place of quick Melee?

Either way, it sounds absolutely amazing.

[Endrian]

5 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

I suppose that when the Arc Blade is sheathed that Void Blast takes the place of quick Melee?

The idea is that Void Blast would move to being activated to the first ability hotkey (1 on PC, not sure what the console button is), because Operator mode doesn't actually use the ability buttons that Warframes use, which the Umbra Path would address by granting three Operator-only abilities in addition to Void Blast. As Operator, you would Quick Melee or switch to melee mode the same way you would as a Warframe.

[RevanGarcia]

hace 19 horas, Endrian dijo:

The idea is that Void Blast would move to being activated to the first ability hotkey (1 on PC, not sure what the console button is), because Operator mode doesn't actually use the ability buttons that Warframes use, which the Umbra Path would address by granting three Operator-only abilities in addition to Void Blast. As Operator, you would Quick Melee or switch to melee mode the same way you would as a Warframe.

What about "change" hand with the "F" button ?

EDIT: Nevermind, I cant read.

Edited October 14, 2018 by RevanGarcia

[Synpai]

Bloody Brilliant! 

[(XBOX)SilverSurferGuy]

You put a lot of time and thought into this. I like the ideas. Especially the dragon king concept. But the pride stack thing is too similar to nidus. I like the thought of seeing chroma’s wings flare up when you preform certain actions. 

[Synpai]

I enjoy the credit to power passive power; you could make it so his Pelt increases the chance of credit drops as opposed to doubling credit drops (like arcanes). Thus there will be an instance where you get double the credits, but more credits drop nonetheless.

Kills are a bit too boring, even in low level missions, if playing with a full squad you've killed hundreds of enemies by the first 5 mins or so.

 

You could have the Pride/Greed stacks convey:

-A growing fear aura

-Increased elemental damage/ resistances (though the health and shields work too)

-Ability effects: I.e: Ability 1 increasing in explosion range, increasing in charge speed/cast speed, then finally leaving a damaging field at the point of contact.

[Endrian]

19 hours ago, Synpai said:

I enjoy the credit to power passive power; you could make it so his Pelt increases the chance of credit drops as opposed to doubling credit drops (like arcanes). Thus there will be an instance where you get double the credits, but more credits drop nonetheless.

I believe Effigy already increases credit drop chances (to something like +60% chance at level 3), in addition to doubling their value, but power strength doesn't influence either effect (at level 3 Effigy, it's always +60% chance for double credit drops regardless of power strength, I believe).

19 hours ago, Synpai said:

Kills are a bit too boring, even in low level missions, if playing with a full squad you've killed hundreds of enemies by the first 5 mins or so.

Agreed, that's why I provided alternate sources for the stacks, such as credit drops, ability castings, energy spent, damage dealt/received, &c.

EDIT: Agreed in the sense that they might be too boring/"easy," but I still think it's the most reliable source for the mechanic compared to other sources.

19 hours ago, Synpai said:

You could have the Pride/Greed stacks convey:

-A growing fear aura

-Increased elemental damage/ resistances (though the health and shields work too)

-Ability effects: I.e: Ability 1 increasing in explosion range, increasing in charge speed/cast speed, then finally leaving a damaging field at the point of contact.

My main goal with the Pride passive was in providing a reasonable increase in power over time, or scalability in other words; scalability is a crucial trait needed for endgame/"endless mode" warframes, and something that I think needs to be more broadly introduced so no one feels "locked out" of content.

For example, Loki scales well because he can always mass-disarm and turn invisible, completely mitigating damage by simply not being targeted; Limbo scales well because he increases energy regen for allied warframes and can mass-stasis enemies; these are flat utility or crowd control features that are always viable no matter how strong the opponent is. In terms of power scalability, Saryn's poison accumulates more and more damage over time, spreading and rapidly multiplying in damage. Nidus grows in power due to his evolutionary mutation, on and on.

As it is, Chroma's power (while very good with Vex Armor) does not scale over time. He has no real "utility" scalability, because his only real crowd control comes in the form of Effigy's knockback slams and stunning roars, and those cannot be controlled by the player. His damage similarly doesn't scale; once Vex Armor is at its cap, it's at its cap, and won't get any better except from outside influence (such as a Nidus Specter buffing his power strength).

That's why I suggested the idea of taking Spectral Scream from being a lackluster low-range flamethrower to a (at max Pride) powerhouse projectile/AOE. Obviously, it wouldn't compete with the real powerhouse abilities like Saryn's Spores/Miasma or Volt's Discharge because that's their entire bag, but it would give Chroma a way to dish out crowd control (with the Furious Roar augment replacing Afterburn) and hefty damage in a pinch.

EDIT: Anyway, going back to your suggestion, if you were to cut out the need for power scalability—

A fear aura, while dragons are traditionally known for such an aura, I feel like might be getting into Nekros's territory, since terror is his thing. A passive fear aura would be wonderful on Nekros or similarly "spooky" warframe.

Increased elemental damage/resistances are an interesting idea in theory, but how often do you actually run into elementally-damaging enemies? Toxin from some infested and eximuses, heat from Grineer flamethrower enemies and eximuses, but... not sure about lightning or cold, except from eximuses. Most damage warframes take I think is from the three "primary" damage types of Slash, Impact, and Puncture, is it not? Elemental resistances, though thematic, would actually do very little for Chroma. I think we should leave such increasing resistances to mods like the new (and amazing) Adaptation—though it'll probably be nerfed before too long.

Ability effects is an interesting idea, but also something I already suggested as being part of a hold vs tap variation of the Spectral Scream rebuild "Proud Roar" (doubling radius and increasing damage via Pride multiplier). By your suggestion, I'm not sure how the stacks would increase the "effect" of Vex Armor or Elemental Ward without just being a flat power increase like I've already concepted, because an increase in radius size or casting speed for those isn't really a scalable mechanic, just a convenience mechanic that doesn't really benefit Chroma in the lategame.

Edited October 17, 2018 by Endrian

[Synpai]

8 hours ago, Endrian said:

Ability effects is an interesting idea, but also something I already suggested as being part of a hold vs tap variation of Spectral Scream (doubling radius and increasing damage via Pride multiplier). By your suggestion, I'm not sure how the stacks would increase the "effect" of Vex Armor or Elemental Ward without just being a flat power increase like I've already concepted, because an increase in radius size or casting speed for those isn't really a scalable mechanic, just a convenience mechanic that doesn't really benefit Chroma in the lategame.

To be fair though, it's a (give or take) 700+% damage boon and 1100% armor boon. You don't even really NEED that much power "early."

I think "late game" needs to be clarified because that means different things to different people. Chroma won't have an issue handing anything 200 or lower (and even that may not be the upper limit), but it's safe to say that the further you go is well known as unbalanced territory, which may be "end game" to some, but DE can't balance around that. 

19 hours ago, Synpai said:

Ability 1 increasing in explosion range, increasing in charge speed/cast speed, then finally leaving a damaging field at the point of contact.

The damaging field could easily do flat %HP damage. And with effigy he'd fire two.

 

You could have it so Chroma unlocks access to the combined elements at max stacks (With viral being the last if they unlock progressively ;^). could also make for a good augment otherwise) and/or applies combined elemental damage to chroma and his allies weapons (I think having combined elements is enough without the added elemental damage, but you could add the adding of elemental damage to Vex Armor at max stacks or to a Vex armor augment)

 

At max stacks, recasting Vex Armor gives chroma a brief period of invulnerability; damage taken during this is split between an additive base elemental damage and base armor boost (both being increased by vex armor stacks). Double the damage could be added to his 1 while the normal amount is applied to weapons. Not to mention, it could instead give a shell like Iron skin

 

On 2018-09-27 at 6:42 PM, Endrian said:

Suggestion: Effigy is modified as if applying weapon mods to an Ignis or similar limited-range elemental primary firearm; when applying elemental damage mods, Effigy always deals base elemental alignment damage first, then the elemental mods after—i.e. if your elemental alignment is Toxin and you mod it with Electric damage mods, the Effigy's breath would deal Toxin + Electric damage; if you mod it with Electric and Toxin damage mods, it would deal boosted Toxin + Corrosive damage.

Allowing Elemental ward to improve to use dual-elements also removes the need for this Exalted weapon catastrophe. Like I understand the intent behind people wanting to mod and customize parts of an ability, but it's possible without inadvertently being consumed by hunter munitions, split chamber, etc.

I think your terrain idea satisfied the idea behind scaling in a more unique and interesting way than an exalted flamethrower turret ever could.

 

Edited October 17, 2018 by Synpai

[Endrian]

More operator miscellany.

[Endrian]

Decided to go ahead and, just in case it's needed, to explain how you could safely buff Effigy so it no longer halves Chroma's Armor when active, in terms of lore:

• Effigy Lore Context: In terms of Chroma's backstory and lore, one could argue Chroma himself was always at his full Armor value, while the "pelt" seemingly obtained later was a source of power (that is, the conduit for Chroma's otherwise-sealed Effigy ability), not a source of protection/armor. The Chroma we encounter in The New Strange may have defeated then bonded with a feral Sentient ("Dracolyst"?) by using his innate powers of Spectral Scream, Vex Armor, and especially Elemental Ward in order to change elemental alignments and get around the innately-adaptive Sentient defenses. Meanwhile, Chroma Prime was the first and most perfect iteration, who defeated a more powerful Sentient (Dracolyst Prime?) in order to unlock his own Effigy. Both always had their full Armor before and after the ritual; the "pelt" merely acts as a conduit for their ultimate ability. View it this way: Chroma is both armored dragonslayer and dragon, donning the skin of a slain foe of similar nature; he receives his protection not from the Sentient cloak, but from his own armor and his own nature. It still burdens him when worn (thus the increased speed when Effigy is active), but it isn't actually related to his own Armor value.

Added it to the original post, under the Tier I heading.

[Endrian]

17 hours ago, Synpai said:

Allowing Elemental ward to improve to use dual-elements also removes the need for this Exalted weapon catastrophe. Like I understand the intent behind people wanting to mod and customize parts of an ability, but it's possible without inadvertently being consumed by hunter munitions, split chamber, etc.

I think your terrain idea satisfied the idea behind scaling in a more unique and interesting way than an exalted flamethrower turret ever could.

I used to be against the idea of it being its own moddable thing... until the more I looked into it.

Virtually every Warframe that summons or possesses a separate unique "entity" actually has it as a moddable entity.

• It started with Excalibur's Exalted Blade (the entire reason people call such entities "Exalted" even though no one else has that in the entity's name)
• Mesa's Regulators (secondary)
• Ivara's Artemis Bow (primary)
• Wukong's Iron Staff (melee)
• Valkyr's Talons (melee)
• Titania's Razorwing [Dex Pixia and Diwata] (archwing)
• Khora's Venari (kavat companion)

That last one especially shows that there's precedent for having a non-weapon moddable entity. At this point, it's weirder that Effigy isn't moddable. It's not a companion, can't roam and pounce and slash, so it wouldn't use companion mods; but it's not really a Warframe either, so it wouldn't use Warframe mods. So the best I could see it is as an Ignis-like turret given that its entire job is to stay in one place and blast enemies with its elemental breath, so it would use primary weapon mods, especially those that something like Ignis would use (like Sinister Reach and Firestorm, which just make sense on a dragon).

EDIT: At this point, I really wouldn't be surprised if DE ended up making Hydroid's Kraken (from Tentacle Swarm) or Atlas's Rumblers moddable. It could lead to an entirely new category of "exalted companion" mods that are purely for weird summonable entities like this.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Endrian

[Endrian]

[ignore this post, accidentally quoted when I meant to edit instead]

Edited October 18, 2018 by Endrian

[(XBOX)Kaldwin1571]

I like this idea, hope that DE will rework Chroma. 

[(XBOX)FijorDragonmane]

Give this mans a Job. I mean that positively. This is the most extensive rework idea of chroma i have ever seen

[Synpai]

6 hours ago, Endrian said:

I used to be against the idea of it being its own moddable thing... until the more I looked into it.

Virtually every Warframe that summons or possesses a separate unique "entity" actually has it as a moddable entity.

• It started with Excalibur's Exalted Blade (the entire reason people call such entities "Exalted" even though no one else has that in the entity's name)
• Mesa's Regulators (secondary)
• Ivara's Artemis Bow (primary)
• Wukong's Iron Staff (melee)
• Valkyr's Talons (melee)
• Titania's Razorwing [Dex Pixia and Diwata] (archwing)
• Khora's Venari (kavat companion)

That last one especially shows that there's precedent for having a non-weapon moddable entity. At this point, it's weirder that Effigy isn't moddable. It's not a companion, can't roam and pounce and slash, so it wouldn't use companion mods; but it's not really a Warframe either, so it wouldn't use Warframe mods. So the best I could see it is as an Ignis-like turret given that its entire job is to stay in one place and blast enemies with its elemental breath, so it would use primary weapon mods, especially those that something like Ignis would use (like Sinister Reach and Firestorm, which just make sense on a dragon).

EDIT: At this point, I really wouldn't be surprised if DE ended up making Hydroid's Kraken (from Tentacle Swarm) or Atlas's Rumblers moddable. It could lead to an entirely new category of "exalted companion" mods that are purely for weird summonable entities like this.

Thanks for the trip down memory lane I suppose, but I don't remember saying that there wasn't precedent for it. I do remember saying that it's not necessary.

In THIS instance it seems like an incredibly unnecessary addition that would rehash issues currently present in weapons. Something like the ignis could also use: Crit + Hunter's Munition (If it has crit), Split chamber, Combustion Beam, Primed Bane of [blank]...etc.

If it doesn't have crit, then it just turns into a rainbow build.

 

Like it seems like all the things you could want to customize make sense under the frame's stats.

More turret range...build Chroma for range?

Want combined elements? Have away for elemental ward (and by association effigy) to gain them through passive or augment (As mentioned in previous post).

More durability? There's literally no point in not using link health and armor on a companion, especially on chroma; it should just scale off of his health, armor and shields before scaling off power strength.

More damage? Make it scale better off of power strength/Vex Armor

 

Spoiler

Venari isn't the poster child for companions either: Animal instinct, Bite*, Link Armor*, Link Health*, Link Shields, Loyal companion, Maul*, Medi-Pet Kit(can't make full use), Pack Leader(You can recast her or activate heal aura), Pounce(It's neat to see her try, but she's buggy enough and you can strangle/ensnare a whole group), Scavenge, Sense Danger, Sharpened Claws(Pairs well with H. Command)*, Shelter(operator), Swipe, Territorial Aggression, Hunter Command, Hunter Synergy, Hunter Recovery*.

6 out of your 10 mods are basically no brainers (7 if you count Animal Instinct...which...I would); Territorial Aggression might become good on Orb V. 

Animal Instinct, Pack Leader, Scavenge, Swipe, Hunter Command (If you hit it and it's bleeding it'll have no armor), Hunter Synergy (Staple if using a high crit primary)

 

 

On top of this Exalted things require a lot of forma investment (of which is no concern for me), but less veteran players would have a harder time building essentially two frames worth of forma and experience, especially with no Exp boosters O_O

Now it's debatable if THIS was even necessary, like IMO companions, but ESPECIALLY Venari should just be innately linked to the warframe and scale with rank ups; Like who in their right mind doesn't want their pet to have more durability, it's hardly a choice. Then you have the too good to be true damage/crit/armor removing mods

Hydroid's Kraken: Merely a cosmetic can't take damage, tentacles spawn based on enemy locations, not sure what's needed to be modified here that isn't being affected by mods? Guess it could be neat to have it swimming around the map or incredibly annoying....

Atlas' Rumblers: Could simply scale more off of his health, shields and armor and act somewhat like the sand golems (throwing rocks that can petrify) or like giant atlas specters able to use atlas' other abilities, copying Landslide damage, petrify speed, etc.(minus summoning more Rumblers, though it's probably better they get the AoE petrify instead of the cone), but I suppose that's a topic for another day.

 

Now it WOULD make sense to me, for Atlas' landslide, Gara's Shattered Lash and Khora's whip to be separately modifiable (Although not to become Exalted weapons in the traditional sense), since they're currently reliving Exalted weapon 1.0 dependencies (gotta use that 5/5 dispo with certain stats and mods to get the max out of em). 

I'm not seeing the need (thematically or otherwise) for it to be an exalted turret when so many of the things needed can just be built into the scaling of the Warframe.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Synpai

[Endrian]

22 minutes ago, Synpai said:

snip

If your argument is just that you don't see it as "necessary," then you're not really making an argument except for argument's sake. No change for Chroma is, strictly speaking, "necessary." Chroma is passable/adequate right now, it's just that generally people aren't as happy with the state of him as they used to be. His Vex Armor is still good, it's just no longer great; ditto for Elemental Ward due to Cold/Electric nerfs; his Spectral Scream has never even been good; and his Effigy is only "okay" in comparison to many other ultimate abilities.

The point of this thread is offering suggestions for improvements, alterations, and reworks to make every ability "great" or at the very least desirable. You're specifically speaking against a concept that I very intentionally included under the Tier III heading, which is for not necessary but "wouldn't it be cool if..." changes.

Also, you can't modify Effigy's range with mods. The range of its attacks are set in stone and unaffected by power range (which is frankly a wise decision). As far as I'm aware, there are no popular builds that shove power range bonuses on Chroma when strength and duration are the biggest key assets for him. There's just not room for high power strength, high power duration, personal survivability mods and power range mods, especially if people are using the crucial Narrow Minded for its giant duration bonus, which cuts on range dramatically.

But I've heard your argument, I understand where you're coming from. Just I'm not going to drop the idea of a modifiable Effigy from the original post. After all, "Exalted Effigy" was a popular request even before I made my post.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Endrian