THE DRAGON KING: A Chroma Rework Concept [UPDATE 11/17/2018: Warframe Strategy Layer/Syndicate Expansion concept]

[Darkvramp]

3 minutes ago, Endrian said:

You wouldn't be forced to play solo for the main version where you get the actual major reward. The the whole point of the "Extreme" version is for the extra challenge you get from not being able to be revived by others, because neither could you rely on others to do it all for you. You have to earn it yourself.

Warframe is a game that runs off of gratification. If you say the major reward would not be in the challenging mode, wherein the only reason you would do it would be to experience the challenge, well then I think you have the wrong game. We want to experience a challenge in warframe, but some of these come off as not challenging, but more as a tedious affair.  Remove mods, the heart and soul of warframe, remove gunplay, another heart and soul of warframe.  Focus on the operator, which we all agree is not in a good place at the moment, needs some work. You are trying so hard to make warframe, not warframe if that makes any sense, by taking the core features away from us and presenting it as a challenge. You want to make a new mode, but you're taking away from the core gameplay loop instead of shaping the mode around it.

[Endrian]

4 minutes ago, Darkvramp said:

Warframe is a game that runs off of gratification. If you say the major reward would not be in the challenging mode, wherein the only reason you would do it would be to experience the challenge, well then I think you have the wrong game. We want to experience a challenge in warframe, but some of these come off as not challenging, but more as a tedious affair.  Remove mods, the heart and soul of warframe, remove gunplay, another heart and soul of warframe.  Focus on the operator, which we all agree is not in a good place at the moment, needs some work. You are trying so hard to make warframe, not warframe if that makes any sense, by taking the core features away from us and presenting it as a challenge. You want to make a new mode, but you're taking away from the core gameplay loop instead of shaping the mode around it.

I'm not sure where you're getting this idea, given all the work in the very first post about Operator and specific Warframe improvements (in this case, Chroma).

You read the part where those are just daily nightmare-style missions, right? Not an overall new mission type? It's just for a specific challenge for fun. You see it as tedious, I would call it simplification. Metal Gear Solid-style sneaky ninja business, for a fresh type of experience. Even in the normal "stealth" mission types like Spy and Rescue, people tend to just bullet-jump their way through until they get to the actual vault or prison and then just pop Invisibility of one form or another, wander to the computer, hack it, done (when they don't just brute force it with Ciphers).

The goal of these mission types is to harken back to a true stealth mission where anybody can do it with skill and patience, carefully sneaking through the ships, immersing themselves more in the world. 

Edited November 5, 2018 by Endrian

[Sajochi]

Took a couple days to read through this and I must say I like what I see. My only issue is element swapping mid mission but it looks like you found a decent way to balance it by having each element truly unique across the board. You should link your thread in the next few dev stream announcements. I really want DE to see this and especially want the spectral scream changes. 

Edited November 8, 2018 by Sajochi

[Endrian]

4 hours ago, Sajochi said:

Took a couple days to read through this and I must say I like what I see. My only issue is element swapping mid mission but it looks like you found a decent way to ball balance by having each element truly unique across the board. You should link your thread in the next few dev stream announcements. I really want DE to see this and especially want the spectral scream changes. 

Yeah, I figured the best way to keep the element versatility balanced was in preventing overlapping buffs. Can't combine Elemental Wards together to create a temporary super-Chroma with massively boosted Health, Shields, and Armor that deflects bullets, electrifies attackers, and does stacking AOE damage.

Although the Elemental Ward aura damage is kind of garbage as it is. With around 250% power strength, the Heat Elemental Ward aura takes three ticks or more to even kill level 20-25 Grineer.

Edited November 7, 2018 by Endrian

[(PSN)Absoluteboxer]

Really love your ideas keep them coming.

As for the MGS style missions. I love that. Game def needs somewhere to place calm and collected style of game play.  

Spy missions on lua are hard af but i love them for a change of pace.  

I had a great idea for a raid implementation ill post later when im not at work.

[GrimAtrament]

this is both the chroma rework we need and the chroma rework chroma deserves 

[(PSN)Elixz8247]

So the overall WF redesign for ceratain sounds great. Especially for frames like Ember who falls off so fast when playing against high level enemies

[Endrian]

Still fleshing out my thoughts, but...

VAUBAN REWORK CONCEPTS

• THEME: Right now, Vauban's current passive is that he deals 25% extra damage to enemies that are incapacitated and unable to move, such as by his own abilities. It's thematic, but it could be more.
• PURPOSE: A hard look is needed at Vauban's kit. What is his goal? Right now, seems like his purpose is various types of lesser crowd control and enemy-debuffing, and even then, his crowd control isn't as massive in scale as a tank's: Rhino's single crowd control move Stomp is better at halting the actions of a far more massive crowd at enemies. Vauban handles choke points. So, Vauban's kit can't purely be about crowd control. He needs to provide more for the squad in order to be desirable.

DEPLOYABLES. Tesla. Bounce. Trip Laser. Shred. Concuss. Bastille. Vortex. Vauban has seven different deployables, but aesthetically they're all variations on a "mine" theme, each mine generating different effects, but ultimately being limited to being... a mine. I don't think I'm alone in seeing Vauban as the most Corpus-like of the Warframes, and yet... Corpus aren't really known specifically for their mines. Rather, any "mines" are generated by the real Corpus specialty: robotics. What if Vauban did more with robotics and complex machines, maybe turrets, than just simple mines? What if Bounce was a remotely-deployable teleport pad (renamed Blink): requiring two castings, which creates two active teleport pads that automatically link to one another and are activated by context-sensitive interaction, limiting trolling against allies and increasing focused utility? Any subsequent casting just links the previous pad to the newest one; no range or duration limitation, survives for a certain number of teleport charges. It would be pretty useful in Plains of Eidolon and the coming Fortuna; place a pad at the entrance or near mission-giver (in Fortuna's case), do the mission, then drop the next pad and just teleport back to the original at the entrance/mission-giver. Note to self: Need player research to determine if this is something Vauban players would really want, or if they actually use the mines against enemies.

Tesla needs a decision made on it as well: It should either be charge-based or duration-based, not both. It should also release its electric payload much more quickly, rather than just firing every three seconds. I want to suggest turning Tesla into an electric orb that can cling to floor, walls, or ceilings, capable of generating flow of Electric damage against all enemies in a small/moderate radius, very high status chance to stun enemies, good for chokepoint defense, but that might be over-powered for 25 energy?

What if, as part of Vauban's Theme... most of his deployables are permanent? They're limited in number, so past a certain point, recasting the deployables in other areas would just cause the old ones to disappear. However, if you target the current deployable while recasting the ability, it strengthens the deployable. For instance, you could repeatedly cast Tesla in the same spot, and the Tesla orb grows larger and more powerful, maybe even more complex in appearance, until it reaches a certain point where it achieves maximum strength and area of effect. Perhaps you could have up to four such permanent powered-up Tesla orbs active at once. This could work with several varieties of deployables, and while he has such a strengthened deployable active, it would show as a buff on his screen. Over time, the buff would gradually fade by degrees, so it'd need to be refreshed, but the deployable itself would remain in place.

A permanent defense measure, but it would require maintenance to operate at peak power. Rather than determining how long the deployable exists, power duration could be used to determine how long each "stack" of mechanical prowess exists before it needs to be refreshed and the ability needs to be recast.

Edited November 8, 2018 by Endrian

[Endrian]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Elixz8247 said:

So the overall WF redesign for ceratain sounds great. Especially for frames like Ember who falls off so fast when playing against high level enemies

Glad you approve! I'm going to try and look at all of them with such a critical eye, over time.

[Endrian]

Continuing to flesh out my thoughts on Ember rework concept.

EMBER

• THEME: Ember's passive is a decent idea in theory (+35% power strength and regenerate energy 10/sec while ablaze as from Heat status effect), but relying on self-damage in order to get the power gain is a bit absurd. Needs a way to gain scaling power over time another way, if you choose to be more evasive of enemy damage. Maybe the more enemies that die by Heat damage or that panic/catch fire as a result of Heat Status Chance gradually increases her overall Heat damage/power strength and power range. Or maybe both. Maybe some sort of "increasing temperature" gauge to represent Ember's growing power. Possibly she regenerates health while standing in patches of fire she's created (as well as in exploding ship fire patches).
  • SCALING TRAIT: Wildfire—Some form of permanent scaling power strength gained over the course of a mission, as posited by the methods listed above. As a pure caster/ability striker Warframe, power strength is her most vital asset. Perhaps up to a +50% or even +100% multiplicative power gain, along with a "stacks" system to multiply the damage of her primary attack ability (Fireball/Detonate).
    • Thoughts: May also need a way to ignore a certain amount of damage reduction from Ferrite/Alloy Armor per stacks, perhaps 1 stack = ignoring 1% of target's damage reduction, though boss damage reduction could be special case scenario. 100 Wildfire stack max, means ignoring 100% of standard enemy Armor-based damage reduction, in addition to power strength bonus and stack multiplier for Fireball/Detonate. Scales very well against late-game high-Armor enemies, lets Ember maintain usefulness throughout.
  • THEMATIC TRAIT: Firestarter—Patches of roiling flame (of various size) are generated from all of Ember's abilities. Limited duration of 15-30 seconds, unaffected by power duration. It deals steady Heat damage to any enemies, and moderate Status Chance (not guaranteed).
  • SUSTAINING TRAIT: Overheat—When either on fire as from Heat status effect or standing in one of her patches of flame, Ember steadily regenerates Energy and Health. She wouldn't regenerate 10/sec like her current passive (patches of flame too easily generated for such a quick gain), but she would have a more reliable way to regain the energy. Maybe 2.5 to 5/sec. However, if standing in multiple layered patches of flame, the regeneration would be multiplied/accelerated.
• ABILITY 1: Detonate
  • Rebuilt/renamed from "Fireball." Instead of a projectile, Ember snaps the fingers of one hand, and wherever she's currently pointing her reticle, that specific enemy/location explodes in a spherical conflagration. Initial major Heat/Blast damage for primary target, surrounding enemies suffer lesser Heat/Blast damage, and the ability leaves behind a large patch of continuous roiling flame, equal to the size of the explosion radius. Charged: In exchange for double energy cost, a number of Wildfire stacks, and a longer cast time, Ember snaps the fingers of both hands and sets off a rapid chain of explosions, chain-exploding any enemies within the radius of initial target (the more enemies there are, the more stacking explosions, the more the damage). Damage for charged/normal Detonate is multiplied by the number of Wildfire stacks. A patch of flame is left by each exploding enemy. Affected by: Power strength, power range.
• ABILITY 2: Ignition
  • Rebuilt/renamed from "Accelerant." Not changed too heavily: Still stuns surrounding enemies, but rather than increasing damage versus the stunned enemies, Ember becomes Ignited, wreathed in flame; gains a Heat damage aura with short fixed radius but very high Status Chance (very easily sets nearby enemies on fire/panicking); any Heat/Blast damage she deals, whether from abilities or weapons, is multiplied significantly. Possibly takes on a "heat haze" appearance alongside the fire aura that grants her a native "dodge chance" for incoming attacks. Possibly absorbs Heat and Heat-derived damage (such as Blast) as Health while Ignited? Affected by: Power strength, power duration, power range (for stun radius).
• ABILITY 3: Molten Ring
  • Rebuilt/renamed from "Fire Blast." Think "Arson Eximus" explosion. This would be Ember's "panic button" defense. The blast wave would move significantly faster than an Arson Eximus's, however. The explosion radius would be far larger than Fire Blast, and any enemy it hits would be shoved back either into a wall or until the very edge of the explosion radius, which could be 15/20/25/30+m, and then they would be knocked down briefly; the damage on the wave itself would not be high, as the ability is used more for the knockback and molten terrain (read on for details) in order to give Ember breathing room. A very large patch of fire would be generated, which covers a large section of "warped/molten" terrain, like you see when a ship begins exploding; the molten terrain lasts for 15/20/25/30 seconds base, modified by power duration. While fighting on or firing from the molten terrain, the Warframe is granted a multiplicative scaling (scales with power strength, multiplies total damage) Heat damage bonus onto your weapon, but you would not be able to stack the bonus from multiple terrains. You could create multiple molten terrains, the same way Frost can create multiple Snow Globes, to create multiple "firing positions" for allies. Possible synergy between Ignition and Molten Ring so that the heat haze dodge bonus is applied to all allies on the molten terrain if Ember is ignited and also on the molten terrain. 
• ABILITY 4: World on Fire
  • No thoughts just yet.

Edited November 9, 2018 by Endrian

[-VM-Haru]

Read through all of it and think that it's absolutely incredible. I especially like the ideas for the operator and the design of the Arc. Really hope that DE takes a look at what you've layed out here. Keep being amazing.

[Endrian]

MORE EMBER REWORK THOUGHTS

Had another thought about Ember's Wildfire "stacks," in terms of appearance. Maybe instead of "1-100 Wildfire stacks," it would look like a flame and be measured by degrees. Like, the appearance of the buff gauge in the lower right would be a flame that gets steadily larger and more furious as the "degrees"/stacks build, maxing out at a blazing sun-like appearance at around 4,000 "degrees" (80 stacks) and would hit a hard cap at 5,000 (100 stacks), so every 50 degrees would translate to a single Wildfire stack. You'd "spend"/reduce your Wildfire by 150 degrees (3 stacks) in order to do the charged-up Detonate. If you died, not sure if you'd lose all your stacks/degrees, or just a percentage of them, like 25%.

As far as how Ember would build the degrees, I think each enemy hit by one of her abilities could be worth 25 degrees. If they catch fire, they add another 10 degrees per second that they're aflame. So, if you hit two enemies, that's worth a single Wildfire stack. If you hit two enemies and they both catch flame for six seconds, that's 50 + 120 degrees, or three Wildfire stacks and a little extra.

Edited November 10, 2018 by Endrian

[Endrian]

Unrelated post, but because of the hotfix note:

"Both Vacuum and Fetch Mods now pull the items directly to the Warframe as opposed to the Sentinel/Pet. Pets in Warframe don’t mimic the same ‘follow’ logic like Sentinels, so they would end up running around with items instead of giving them to you. So basically very bad at fetching...."

#blessed

[Zorish]

"I'm throwing money at my screen but nothing is happening!?" © meme

Seriously. Can we have V3 of chroma rework this guy created? please DE. Can we? 

[(PSN)Absoluteboxer]

They prob wont be doing anything until fortuna stabilizes. 

But do really hope they take notice to your posts.  Pretty sure the entire community forum and subreddit would accept you bumping up the thread periodically to make sure your vision stays heard.

[Endrian]

7 hours ago, (PS4)Absoluteboxer said:

They prob wont be doing anything until fortuna stabilizes. 

But do really hope they take notice to your posts.  Pretty sure the entire community forum and subreddit would accept you bumping up the thread periodically to make sure your vision stays heard.

I'll do my best to actually make each "bump" post worthwhile and keep contributing new ideas/concepts. For instance, going back to the Vauban rework idea...

• THEME:
  • SCALING TRAIT: Architech—Most of Vauban's deployables have a permanent duration so that they do not fade over time. Instead, they're limited to a certain number of existing deployments (determined on an ability by ability basis), but can be enhanced with repeated castings, potentially gaining: increased range/radius, increased damage, increased effect chance. Architech could be stacked up to 10 times on any deployable (effects of each Architech stack will be listed for the abilities below). All deployables have a placement range of 30 meters from Vauban's current position.
    • Thoughts: Should the Architech stacks fade over time or not necessary? If they fade over time, that would be a lot of micromanagement if Vauban's got a lot of deployables out, and could quickly become frustrating; making each stack of Architech last 30 seconds by default, possibly affected by power duration, may help.
  • THEMATIC TRAIT: Exploiter—Vauban deals increased damage to enemies that are currently incapacitated, such as by his own abilities. 
  • SUSTAINING TRAIT: Tech Affinity—Vauban takes less damage when near his deployables. The more deployables that are near him (within 5-10m), the greater damage reduction he receives, but with diminishing returns (perhaps each nearby deployable grants +15% multiplicative damage reduction, capping at 50%-80%).
• ABILITY 1: Tesla
  • Rebuilt. Tesla deployable would now generate a steady small radius of moderate Electric damage per tick (25% Status Chance per tick, 5 ticks/sec), rather than one jolt per three seconds. While it could deal decent damage, the overall goal would be crowd control, rather than damage: to paralyze an enemy with electrocution and make them vulnerable to Vauban's Exploiter and his squad. Architech would increase its radius by an additive +10% (enhanced by power range) and its damage by an additive +25% (enhanced by power strength). Deployment Limit: Four Teslas.
• ABILITY 2: Deploy
  • Rebuilt/renamed from "Minelayer." Four options as before, but radically altered for more focused purposes. Hold key for 0.5 seconds to cycle through options, tap to activate (including for generating Architech stacks; much more user-friendly if tapping gives stacks rather than having to hold the key each time).
  • Teleporter: Rebuilt/renamed from "Bounce." When deployed, places a small teleporter platform wherever Vauban's currently pointing his reticle; Teleporter automatically adheres to nearest floor. On its own, does nothing. However, when a second Teleporter is placed (energy cost temporarily reduced to 0 for the second casting only), it automatically links to the one placed before it. It can be activated by context-sensitive interaction. When a Warframe is near enough that the context-sensitive interaction comes up, it will point to the linked teleporter with an illusory line (even if hundreds of meters away) so that the player has some idea of where it will teleport them. Placing a third Teleporter down will destroy the first, and the third will link to the second. Teleporter would have no range limit, so it would be viable in Plains of Eidolon and Fortuna. Architech would have no effect on it. Deployment Limit: Two Teleporters.
  • Cutter: Rebuilt/renamed from "Trip Laser." When deployed, places a five-point short-range laser emitter (creates a "fan" of lasers) at where Vauban's currently pointing his reticle; Cutter can adhere to floors, walls (aims at nearest opposite wall) or ceilings (aims at floor). The Cutter laser stuns and knocks down enemies as normal, but it also deals heavy Slashing damage per tick (10% Status Chance per tick, 5 ticks/sec) as they pass through. It is a silent, invisible trap (the laser only visible to Warframes), so if an enemy passes through it and is cut in half, other enemies are not alerted unless they see it happen. Architech would increase Cutter damage by a flat +40% (enhanced by power strength). Deployment Limit: Four Cutters.
  • Boomer: Rebuilt/renamed from "Shred." When deployed, places a stationary turret at where Vauban's currently pointing his reticle; turret can adhere to floors, walls or ceilings. The Boomer turret will auto-target and fire on any enemies within 30 meters with explosive rounds (2.25 shots/sec fire rate), dealing heavy Blast damage (30% Status Chance per shot) to all enemies within 2 meters of target with every shot. Boomer would be destructible/targetable by enemy attacks. Architech would increase its Health/Ferrite Armor by a multiplicative +20% (enhanced by power strength; increasing returns) and its damage by an additive +25% (enhanced by power strength). Deployment Limit: Two Boomers.
  • Still thinking
• ABILITY 3: Still thinking.
• ABILITY 4: Still thinking.

Edited November 10, 2018 by Endrian

[(PSN)Elixz8247]

@Endrian You should make separate threads for Ember, Vauban Ideas. They look amazing so far

[Endrian]

Just now, (PS4)Elixz8247 said:

@Endrian You should make separate threads for Ember, Vauban Ideas. They look amazing so far

The only reason I hadn't is because I don't want to start "monopolizing" Fan Concepts with a bunch of individual rework threads that I'd have to keep bumped. I've seen what happens when people do that, and it's just... annoying.

[(PSN)Elixz8247]

Just now, Endrian said:

The only reason I hadn't is because I don't want to start "monopolizing" Fan Concepts with a bunch of individual rework threads that I'd have to keep bumped. I've seen what happens when people do that, and it's just... annoying.

I totally understand then just include it in the title.

[Endrian]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Elixz8247 said:

I totally understand then just include it in the title.

Fair enough.

Done!

[Endrian]

I wonder if there's a requisite number of upvotes or views a thread needs to get before one can feel "certain" DE has seen it.

Until then, I'll keep at it, though I'm pretty sure my Chroma rework concept is finished. I don't really see the need to do concept art for Elemental Ward or Vex Armor, since visually they wouldn't change much. Although he would need some designs for the rotating element choice and for the Pride gauge...

Anyway, what other warframes are in need of revision? Nyx I'm pretty sure is slated next for actual dev review. I think I've also heard need for reworks for Wukong, Vauban, and Ember (the latter two of which I've already started on concepts for).

Who else?

[(PSN)Absoluteboxer]

Yea dunno what it takes for mods to "sticky this". But if anything deserves it, it is this thread.

As for other reworks.

I hear titania is in need of help.

[(PSN)Elixz8247]

54 minutes ago, Endrian said:

I wonder if there's a requisite number of upvotes or views a thread needs to get before one can feel "certain" DE has seen it.

Until then, I'll keep at it, though I'm pretty sure my Chroma rework concept is finished. I don't really see the need to do concept art for Elemental Ward or Vex Armor, since visually they wouldn't change much. Although he would need some designs for the rotating element choice and for the Pride gauge...

Anyway, what other warframes are in need of revision? Nyx I'm pretty sure is slated next for actual dev review. I think I've also heard need for reworks for Wukong, Vauban, and Ember (the latter two of which I've already started on concepts for).

Who else?

I like the direction you have for Ember. I also like your concept for a Vauban rework but Im not an expert on him sooooo...Nyx. Yeah Nyx she definitely needs a touch up. 

[(PSN)Absoluteboxer]

Do feel like one of vaubans grenades should be a flash bang that causes blindness and allows finishers. 

Hes very much the tactician/grenade/landmine frame.

Just comparing from other shooters where grenades are an integral part of gameplay (COD comes to mind) and I was expecting him to fufil this niche but after finally getting him I really just use bastille (3) and  vortex (4).

 

Edit:

Actually i think alot of vaubans problem with the grenades is also the duration of the effects

Bounce reduces shield by 75% for 4 seconds

Shred reduces armor by 40%. For 4 seconds.  They should just be permanent. 

Concuss causes radiation for 12 seconds thats a bit more fair cuz of the nature of the attack.

Id like to see trip laser cause a GAS proc when triggered.

 

It would be cool to see vauban be more of the combined element - grenade chroma...

Radiation, gas, magnetic, corrisive (correct me if I'm wrong but does any frame specialize in corrosion? I think oberon a small bit against armor, but not direct corrosive) and blast (which is kinda innate to grenades as is)

I'd leave out viral cuz thats more sayrn specialty.

Edited November 12, 2018 by (PS4)Absoluteboxer

[Endrian]

No idea if it's actually necessary, but went ahead and added a legal disclaimer to the original post in case that could actually act as a hurdle for doing a Chroma rework with these ideas. They might be seen as my "intellectual property" and DE wouldn't legally be able to use them otherwise? Who knows (and it's all dependent on them actually wanting to use the ideas, as well).