THE DRAGON KING: A Chroma Rework Concept [UPDATE 11/17/2018: Warframe Strategy Layer/Syndicate Expansion concept]

[Synpai]

2 hours ago, Endrian said:

-snip-

Never wanted you to remove it; it's just discussion. I never meant it as not "necessary (in general)." I personally think Chroma isn't great where he is; The two of his abilities work, but ultimately feel lackluster. Hence why the first post I made here was "bloody brilliant," the rest is merely critique. I mean to imply that it doesn't seem necessary in order to achieve the scaling and "modability" of the ability. I'm offering critique/counter points to exalted weapon modification: "Is it necessary" as in "are you sure that's the only viable way to go/achieve the goal?" Like does every frame need an Exalted [X] to be considered effective? Why in this instance? What is being provided that couldn't be done through warframe modification?

Modular Warframes (Zaw-frames) and Gender swapped warframes are also popular/common requests, but they still have cons associated with them. Popularity doesn't mean absolution from critique/discussion. 

As you've pointed out, this thread involves the theory of what Chroma could be, so does it matter that Effigy isn't currently affected by range? Are you sure having effigy unaffected by range should still hold? Especially with the terrain change it seems like you'd want the opposite. Like..Max range armor halving/CC Chroma.

You could argue that instead of strength increasing the cap, it merely increases the conversion rate making it take shorter or longer for Chroma to reach maximum stacks, similar to Nova's AMD. Making effigy last until it dies? I'm not saying it's THE way, just offering other things for thought.

 

Edited October 18, 2018 by Synpai

[Endrian]

8 minutes ago, Synpai said:

As you've pointed out, this thread involves the theory of what Chroma could be, so does it matter that Effigy isn't currently affected by range? Are you sure having effigy unaffected by range should still hold? Especially with the terrain change it seems like you'd want the opposite. Like..Max range armor halving/CC Chroma.

You could argue that instead of strength increasing the cap, it merely increases the conversion rate making it take shorter or longer for Chroma to reach maximum stacks, similar to Nova's AMD. Making effigy last until it dies? I'm not saying it's THE way, just offering other things for thought.

 

I actually think it's important to keep power range from affecting certain attributes so that they're always viable. The way I see it:

POWER RANGE SHOULD AFFECT:

• Spectral Scream/Proud Roar: Heat explosion radius
• Spectral Scream/Proud Roar: Cold cone width
• Spectral Scream/Proud Roar: Toxin splash/puddle radius
• Spectral Scream/Proud Roar: Electric secondary arc length
• Elemental Ward: Aura radius
• Vex Armor: Aura radius
• Effigy: — (currently affects nothing, should continue to affect nothing)

POWER RANGE SHOULD NOT AFFECT:

• Spectral Scream/Proud Roar: Heat projectile distance
• Spectral Scream/Proud Roar: Cold cone length
• Spectral Scream/Proud Roar: Toxin bomb distance
• Spectral Scream/Proud Roar: Electric main bolt length
• Elemental Ward: Individual non-aura-radius effects (Electric counter-arcs, Cold bullet-deflections, Toxin camouflage/sound suppression)
• Vex Armor: — (aura radius is the only thing really applicable for power range)
• Effigy: —

I think Effigy should remain as it is, in terms of how power range affects it (i.e. not at all), even with the ruined lands factor. Nidus and Oberon can't alter the actual size of their own land-generating abilities, after all; Oberon can't increase the radius of his Hallowed Ground, only the angle width of the cone that generates it; Nidus can't affect the size of his Ravenous spawning ground at all, only the explosion size of his Maggots. It'd be inconsistent to have Chroma's ruined lands be affected in that way when they're denied it.

[Synpai]

29 minutes ago, Endrian said:

-Snip-

Fair enough, but it would be nice to see build diversity in some way. 

[Endrian]

6 minutes ago, Synpai said:

Fair enough, but it would be nice to see build diversity in some way. 

I think that'd require not just a rework, but an entire remake, because simply so much of Chroma's kit is dependent on both power strength and power duration. A power range build doesn't make much sense without both strength and duration, since you only really build range (currently) to expand Vex Armor/Elemental Ward aura radius, and if those are either not very strong or last very long, they're not very useful regardless of the size.

And if it'd require an entire remake, well, best to just put those kinds of ideas towards a new warframe concept entirely. Chroma could be amazing, he just needs to be reworked/tweaked with that in mind. Make range beneficial (bigger explosions/attack radius and aura radius), but not really the focus. Chroma's always been about maximum overkill, and for that he needs strength, and to maintain that strength, he needs duration.

[Endrian]

Proposed an alternate camouflage mechanic for Toxin Elemental Ward. Rather than being dependent on alert status, the camouflage would keep Chroma (and allies within the aura) always undetectable when stationary; however, if you move within a short range of enemy line of sight, you would be detectable. That means there's always a risk when moving if the enemies are alerted or not, but if the enemies are always alert (like on Defense or Survival), as long as you stay still, you could still hide while the Elemental Ward is active. Firing weapons would not reveal you while stationary, even if standing directly in front of an enemy, but any melee attacks that moved you out of position would risk revealing you.

Added to the original post.

Edited October 20, 2018 by Endrian

[(PSN)Elixz8247]

The Umbra Path idea is dope

[Endrian]

On 2018-10-20 at 4:04 PM, (PS4)Elixz8247 said:

The Umbra Path idea is dope

Thanks!

Alright, so, plans for future posts:

CONCEPT ART

• Pride gauge
• Proud Roar elemental variants; it will also include differences between charged and normal Proud Roars, and maybe also some visual complexity differences between Chroma and Chroma Prime for the charge-up animation (a bit of that Prime flair)
• Elemental [Ward] wheel; perhaps it surrounds the Pride gauge like a Simon Says color wheel, where each color is tied to the energy color you chose for the respective element, along with having the relevant elemental symbol on that section of the wheel. I think the "current" element would always be on the top (if the wheel spins) or it would just be lit up/luminous (if the wheel doesn't spin)
• Ruinous Effigy; the details need to be further fleshed out, the towers made more interesting to look at... also, thinking about what if the Effigy, when separated, could be +50% to twice as large as it currently is, a much larger turret

COMIC

• More ambitiously, considering a short black-and-white manga-style comic of what Chroma Prime might have been like during the Old War, before he got his Effigy. Something to build interest in the concept and just generally because the idea's been rolling around in my head for days.

[BlackRangerXIII]

I like this Project of yours.
I just hope DE use it as it is for a Chroma Rework, Using the Tier 3 ofc

Edited October 23, 2018 by BlackRangerXIII

[Endrian]

10 hours ago, BlackRangerXIII said:

I like this Project of yours.
I just hope DE use it as it is for a Chroma Rework, Using the Tier 3 ofc

Same! But I think people would be happy even if they just rushed out the Tier I stuff as a "bandaid" (thus the Tier I name). People have been complaining about the Tier I issues for a long time, possibly within days of Chroma's initial release. His Spectral Scream has just... never been great.

[BlackRangerXIII]

True, Having those changes at base level means that Chroma can be played in General instead of only being in Tridolon

[Endrian]

Updated original post with specifics on how Effigy would benefit from Elemental Ward as a source of the aura.

[Endrian]

Keeping in mind the nature of the Tier III Elemental Ward revision:

Scaling Thoughts: Because Cold, Toxin, and Electric elemental alignments would not be available from the start, the leveled benefits would obviously have to be higher for them when they're unlocked. Cold elemental alignment would receive level 1 Elemental Ward benefits upon unlocking, Toxin would receive level 2 Elemental Ward benefits upon unlocking, and Electric would only have level 3 Elemental Ward benefits upon unlocking, because it wouldn't be possible to use the Electric elemental alignment before the final level of Elemental Ward.

It may need to be renamed for Tier III, since the whole shifting elemental nature/energy color thing would be folded into Elemental Ward rather than being Chroma's main passive. Maybe change names to Elemental Nature? Elemental Form? Elemental Affinity?

Edited October 24, 2018 by Endrian

[BlackRangerXIII]

How about Elemental Release as a Name Change for Elemental Ward?

[Endrian]

10 hours ago, BlackRangerXIII said:

How about Elemental Release as a Name Change for Elemental Ward?

Ooh. Ninja vibes.

[Endrian]

As promised, Proud Roar concept art, what I visualise as the future replacement for Spectral Scream:

[BlackRangerXIII]

I like that concept

[Kerberos-3]

As much as I agree with most of this post, I heavily disagree with the idea of giving Chroma the ability to switch elements mid-mission. The problem with giving Chroma that power is that it basically renders modding for individual elements pointless, which then will result in Players simply modding Chroma for general boosts to whatever stats Chroma buffs then switching as needed. Now, that sounds cool, I'll admit, but one needs to look at the long term repercussions of that. Since Chroma will be able to answer anything thrown at him, he will pretty much overshadow any and all other frames that can't, resulting in a similar situation we had back before God Mode Chroma was nerfed. Now, I don't disagree with decoupling Chroma's element from his energy color, but it should be a drop down in the Arsenal.

[Endrian]

12 minutes ago, Kerberos-3 said:

As much as I agree with most of this post, I heavily disagree with the idea of giving Chroma the ability to switch elements mid-mission. The problem with giving Chroma that power is that it basically renders modding for individual elements pointless, which then will result in Players simply modding Chroma for general boosts to whatever stats Chroma buffs then switching as needed. Now, that sounds cool, I'll admit, but one needs to look at the long term repercussions of that. Since Chroma will be able to answer anything thrown at him, he will pretty much overshadow any and all other frames that can't, resulting in a similar situation we had back before God Mode Chroma was nerfed. Now, I don't disagree with decoupling Chroma's element from his energy color, but it should be a drop down in the Arsenal.

It is arguably Chroma's theme, lore, his entire history, that he was a hunter of Sentients. All lore indications point to this. But the only way that he'd make sense as a superior hunter of Sentients is that he was, in the context of the lore, able to change his elemental type in order to get around Sentient damage adaptation. As it is, he's only as effective as any other single-element Warframe against the Sentients (and even then he's not that great at elemental damage, due to the weakness of his Spectral Scream and Effigy).

Keep in mind, however, this was before the concept of being able to change abilities mid-mission was introduced, like with Ivara's Quiver, Vauban's Minelayer, or Khora's Venari—even Equinox, introduced in U17 (Chroma was U16), introduced the possibility of changing how abilities function mid-mission. Now, three years since Chroma's initial addition to the game, the engine and ability flexibility has been added such that Warframes can "toggle" abilities around mid-mission, and the UI is now flexible enough that certain changes could be made in Arsenal to give Chroma more freedom to select elemental colors/starting elemental loadouts.

And it would finally allow Chroma's abilities to make sense with his lore: being able to change elements in order to power through Sentient adaptation.

So, you may disagree with the idea, but that's all it really is: disagreement. There's no valid reason anymore that he shouldn't be able to change elements.

Edited October 31, 2018 by Endrian

[Kerberos-3]

2 minutes ago, Endrian said:

It is arguably Chroma's theme, lore, his entire history, that he was a hunter of Sentients. All lore indications point to this. But the only way that he'd make sense as a superior hunter of Sentients are that he was, in the context of the lore, able to change his elemental type in order to get around Sentient damage adaptation. As it is, he's only as effective as any other single-element Warframe against the Sentients.

Keep in mind, however, this was before the concept of being able to change abilities mid-mission was introduced, like with Ivara's Quiver, Vauban's Minelayer, or Khora's Venari—even Equinox, introduced in U17 (Chroma was U16), introduced the possibility of changing how abilities function mid-mission. Now, three years since Chroma's initial addition to the game, the engine and ability flexibility has been added such that Warframes can "toggle" abilities around mid-mission, and the UI is now flexible enough that certain changes could be made in Arsenal to give Chroma more freedom to select elemental colors/starting elemental loadouts.

And it would finally allow Chroma's abilities to make sense with his lore: being able to change elements in order to power through Sentient adaptation.

So, you may disagree with the idea, but that's all it really is: disagreement. There's no valid reason anymore that he shouldn't be able to change elements.

But his lore doesn't indicate that he hunted Sentients, no more so than any other Frame. It merely mentions that he was adaptable. Thats it. And again, allowing Chroma to switch Elements mid-mission will simply render modding for specific elements pointless, thus Players, being players, will simply mod for general boost and let the game do all the hard work for them.

[Endrian]

13 minutes ago, Kerberos-3 said:

But his lore doesn't indicate that he hunted Sentients, no more so than any other Frame. It merely mentions that he was adaptable. Thats it. And again, allowing Chroma to switch Elements mid-mission will simply render modding for specific elements pointless, thus Players, being players, will simply mod for general boost and let the game do all the hard work for them.

I mean, you're also predicting what people do if such a change is made. People may still have a "main" element in mind and build for that, like additional Armor with Cold or additional Health with Heat or additional Shields with Electric. But I think it's a pretty safe bet that everyone's going to build for power strength and power duration no matter what, whether there's a change or not. So any reduction in "unique" builds for Chroma would be minimal.

[NaharaEriclea]

This is all absolutely amazing. I like Chroma a lot but it sucks that his active abilities are just so bad right now; hopefully DE does something with him soon.

And I want that operator armor. Like really badly, it looks so cool.

[DanDrac0]

Yes. All of it. I want all of it.

ESPECIALLY THOSE OPERATOR COSMETICS

 

[Frosty-the-snowden]

Love all of it, especially the operator idea. On that topic, would it be possible for operators to gain their own affinity and level their focus paths without being reliant on Lenses?

[Endrian]

Made further changes, this time in specifying details for how the Furious Roar augment for Spectral Scream/Proud Roar would work.

Quote

UPDATE 11/1/2018:

REVISED "AFTERBURN" ABILITY AUGMENT: Rebuilt as "FURIOUS ROAR." No visual change from Spectral Scream/Proud Roar* (* see Tier III: The Dragon King), but adds a guaranteed secondary effect and secondary damage type (the damage will be divided into 50% original element, 50% secondary damage types) to all Spectral Scream variations. *High status chance for secondary damage types, affected by power strength: 

• Heat Furious Roar deals Heat + Blast damage and ragdolls enemies with tremendous explosive knockback *(15/25/35/50m knockback, affected by power strength; possible additional Impact damage dealt by long falls and high-speed collision with level geometry, perhaps a level-based set amount of additional Impact damage dealt upon landing).
• Cold Furious Roar deals Cold + Puncture/Slash damage and freezes enemies solid *(3/5/6/8 seconds, duration affected by power duration).
• Toxin Furious Roar deals Toxin + Corrosive damage and slows enemies and reduces their damage *(40/50/60/70% slowdown, -40/50/60/70% damage, 5/7/10/12 seconds, duration affected by power duration).
• Electric Furious Roar deals Electric + Magnetic damage and ragdolls enemies with paralysis *(vulnerable to Ground Finishers, 3/5/6/8 seconds, duration affected by power duration).
• *Thoughts: The initial durations for secondary effects may be overlong and need to be adjusted. Won't know unless tested in-engine. Keep in mind that even getting these secondary effects requires sacrificing a vital mod slot, so there should be a reasonable benefit.

 

Edited November 1, 2018 by Endrian

[ZetaGallade]

This looks amazing and I want it to happen! One question though, Would the landscape made by ruinous effigy be stationary if the augment for it was equipped?