MickThejaguar Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Can we finally bury this stupid argument? I've hated it for longest time because it's literally excusing having poorly designed abilities and it becomes less and less applicable with each new frame release/rework. We've reached a point in warframe where we have enough frames with good 1st that this excuse just doesn't cut it anymore and it should not be looked at as unreasonable to demand that every ability on every frame be worth using to some degree. And I'm not saying all 1st abilities should be able to one shot lvl 150 Corrupted Bombards or anything like that. But the excuse "X is bad so it's okay for Y to also be bad" needs to die in a ditch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angias Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 (edited) Bad first ability....only one that come to mind is chroma fire breath. Also mesa's one too. Edited October 3, 2018 by angias Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickThejaguar Posted October 3, 2018 Author Share Posted October 3, 2018 4 minutes ago, angias said: Bad first ability....only one that come to mind is chroma fire breath. Mesa, Excalibur, Wukong, Nekros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishyflakes Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Nekros 1 is fun with the Augment to be fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angias Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 il y a 1 minute, MickThejaguar a dit : Mesa, Excalibur, Wukong, Nekros. Wut? Nekros and wukong's one are kinda weak but they are not bad. Wukong will be reworked soon. Excalibur is not bad nor it is weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Graysmog Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, angias said: Wut? Nekros and wukong's one are kinda weak but they are not bad. Wukong will be reworked soon. Excalibur is not bad nor it is weak. Nekros' is only useful with an Augment. Otherwise, it deals less damage than Wukong's 1, and that might as well be someone poking someone with a marshmallow. Excalibur's is awful for multiple reasons. It's unpredictable, it can't proc Crit or Status, it's hardly buffed at all by his other abilities, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroNomad Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Confession... I only use Nekros' 1 to entertain myself by doing almost nothing but making a target into a mess limbs bouncing off walls while using all other abilities as intended.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nez-Kal Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, (XB1)Graysmog said: Nekros' is only useful with an Augment. Otherwise, it deals less damage than Wukong's 1, and that might as well be someone poking someone with a marshmallow. Remember how cool they made it look in the Prime Trailer. xD xD XD (I was brand new back then, so I bought into it. =w=") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPrime96 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 19 minutes ago, MickThejaguar said: Mesa, Excalibur, Wukong, Nekros. Also Valkyr's 1. It's only good for Mobility because against enemies, it would force you to run to the enemy more and it got no interaction with her other abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)robotwars7 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 my idea of perfect first abilities (note that this is being thought up of late at night and in a hurry) Ash's Shuriken - more or less as it is now, but costing less when thrown during bladestorm, and more are thrown at once. Atlas' Landslide - fine as it is. Banshee's Sonic Boom - damage and range buff, should stun enemies for a little while by deafening them, maybe open them up to finishers. Chroma's Spectral Scream - reduced energy cost, increased damage and range, guaranteed element Proc. Ember's Fireball - increased damage, leaves additional fire patch on whatever it hits. Equinox's Metamorphosis - technically shouldn't be changed due to how she works, but I've been playing a fair bit of Equinox recently and I wouldn't mind her egtting a "neutral" battle mdoe, that takes both day and night abilities and uses them together, but at only half strength each. so for example with her ult, in neutral form you'd both Mend and Maim, but you wouldn't deal as much damage or heal as much health as you would if you dedicated yourself to one of her forms. first ability could become a wheel toggle like Ivara, between day/night/Neutral. just an idea anyway. Excalibur's Slash Dash - reduced or removed energy cost if cast while using Exalted Blade. (sword's out already so why not?) Frost's Freeze - increased slowing effect, second cast should always freeze enemies solid. Gara's Shattered Lash - more or less fine as it scales with melee, maybe give increased slash proc chance. Harrow's Condemn - wider range, enemies take more headshot damage. Hydroid's Tempest Barrage - makes surrounding area after casting slippy, causing enemies to fall over. Inaros' Dessicate - fine as it is. Ivara's Quiver - pretty much needs a tweak to all of her arrows, that's for another time. Khora's Whipclaw - more or less fine, maybe have the proc of her current damage (Slash/Offense, Puncture/Heal, Impact/Protect) be guaranteed. Limbo's Banish - probably needs looking at in conjunction with the rift as a whole, another time maybe. Loki's Decoy - change it so Decoy health no longer scales off power strength. make it a hologram instead that draws fire without taking damage. Mag's Pull - increase damage, disarm enemies affected. Mesa's Ballistic battery - replace with "Quickdraw: Mesa pulls out one regulator, shoots the nearest enemy in the face dealing full Peacemaker damage and holsters again, all in the blink of an eye. designed to finish off enemies and as a low cost single target alternative to Peacemaker. Mirage's Hall of Mirrors - instead of them all sticking close to her and making her remain vulnerable to AoE attacks, the decoys could move about freely to draw agro from enemeis and confuse them (maybe throw some taunts in there as well to add to her personality!) Nekros' Soul punch - punching an enemy's soul out of their body makes them a Shadow for a little while. Nezha's Fire Walker - increased damage and range, guaranteed elemental proc, increased efficiency. Nidus' Virulence - fine as it is, as it scales. Nyx's Mind Control - casting on an ally buffs their damage for a while, I'll leave more details to DE since she's up for reworking soon. Oberon's Smite - guaranteed radiation Proc, otherwise fine as is. Octavia's Mallet - complex due to Mandachord tie-in, will leave that one for now as well. Rhino's Charge - a little more damage, though i wouldn't mind it being changed to something that has more weight to it, where you charge it up and then shoulder-barge into an enemy at max sprint speed, dealing massive impact damage, and even more damage if Iron Skin is up. would love the effect of turning enemies into red mist, but that's probably not for everyone. Saryn's Spores - fine as it is Trinity's Well of Life - increased healing and range. Valkyr's Rip Line - should deal high slash damage to enemies, maybe give players the freedom to grab and then launch enemies to another location with it (like Doc Ock or something) Vauban's Tesla -guaranteed electric proc (got it), but more damage would be nice. Volt's Shock - change to Emperor Palpatine lightning mode, make it a toggle where Volt constantly emits lighting drainign energy over time but dealing high electric DPS and guaranteed proc. UNLIMITED POWER!! Wukong - idk, he's getting reworked anyway. Zephyr - fine as is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiichibukai Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 I never use most 1's on any frame. They are just bad to begin with. The only ones I frequently use are saryn, nova, frost (just to pop bubbles), mesa and uh...idk forgot, but the majority is just lame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seprent Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 48 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said: Volt's Shock - change to Emperor Palpatine lightning mode, make it a toggle where Volt constantly emits lighting drainign energy over time but dealing high electric DPS and guaranteed proc. UNLIMITED POWER!! All my yes all of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickThejaguar Posted October 4, 2018 Author Share Posted October 4, 2018 27 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said: Volt's Shock - change to Emperor Palpatine lightning mode, make it a toggle where Volt constantly emits lighting drainign energy over time but dealing high electric DPS and guaranteed proc. UNLIMITED POWER!! As funny as I find this, no. Volt's 1st is actually fine. It's meant to be small area CC, not a destructive barrage of Sith lightning. 29 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said: Ember's Fireball - increased damage, leaves additional fire patch on whatever it hits. It's kinda already does something similar if you charge it. 31 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said: Mag's Pull - increase damage, disarm enemies affected. It's just CC. No more damage needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiltskillet Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 1 hour ago, (XB1)Graysmog said: Nekros' is only useful with an Augment. Otherwise, it deals less damage than Wukong's 1, and that might as well be someone poking someone with a marshmallow. Excalibur's is awful for multiple reasons. It's unpredictable, it can't proc Crit or Status, it's hardly buffed at all by his other abilities, etc. But lots of frames have bad first abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obviousclone Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 Guess I'm the only player in all of warframe who uses Nekro's 1 while reloading since it's a 1 handed action that causes an aoe cc effect the same way volt uses his 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 It would of course be nice if the 1s were more useful ... or just cost 0 energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)FriendSharkey Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 You have no idea how much I want to replace Chroma's fire breath with a wind up Opticor Blast... "Pocket Godzilla" achieved if implemented... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtflag Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 (edited) Nekro's one should just instant kill non-boss. How OP would that be? Answer: not very much in a mob shooter as a whole but can become useful against certain types of enemies. Edited October 4, 2018 by wtflag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MirageKnight Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 1 hour ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said: Saryn's Spores - fine as it is Stopped reading right here. Spores right now is arguably THE most most powerful 1 out there, to the point where it actually rivals some Ults in terms of being able to kill large numbers of mooks in a short time span. For a 1, it's stupidly broken and overpowered. No starting ability should be able to wipe a room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loviam Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 Mesa's one is not bad. It's a flat damage buff. It's actually good. You clearly aren't using her right if you think it's bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChromaUmbra Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 I wish I could upvote you more than once. I've seen a lot of people use this excuse for bad first abilities, and it just doesn't make sense. Why would first abilities exist if they were meant to be bad? Why put the effort into animating them, making sounds for them, and coming up with mechanics behind them if they serve no purpose? It's such a silly argument and I agree that it does indeed need to die in a ditch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickThejaguar Posted October 4, 2018 Author Share Posted October 4, 2018 8 minutes ago, Loviam said: Mesa's one is not bad. It's a flat damage buff. It's actually good. You clearly aren't using her right if you think it's bad The low damage cap is the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Nighthawk2060 Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 I think its more how you use it, like rhino mains, no joke intended. It depends on how you use him if you think he is just a tank, no he is a tanky support. His roar ability is overlooked, and is looked at as an early tank by newer players. Charge is probably useful to somebody, but not this guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickThejaguar Posted October 4, 2018 Author Share Posted October 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, (PS4)Nighthawk2060 said: I think its more how you use it, like rhino mains, no joke intended. It depends on how you use him if you think he is just a tank, no he is a tanky support. His roar ability is overlooked, and is looked at as an early tank by newer players. Charge is probably useful to somebody, but not this guy. On it's own it's a sub par ability but it's actually extremely good with it's augment. The augment makes you stack armor per enemy hit, so if you Charge a group and then use Iron Skin it actually increases the Iron Skin health pool significantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)YoungGunn82 Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 51 minutes ago, (PS4)FriendSharkey said: You have no idea how much I want to replace Chroma's fire breath with a wind up Opticor Blast... "Pocket Godzilla" achieved if implemented... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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