Can we get rid of this mobile like time gate?

[SeriousBread]

6 minutes ago, CrystalSpark said:

Well, if you take that out of context it does directly mean that...context does matter...

53 minutes ago, CrystalSpark said:

The OP might as well be grinding plat than whatever else, anyways, since s/he needs to rush crafting

 

I'm sorry that I didn't feel like remind you of the entire sentence you said. I would assume that you'd remember the whole thing. My point still remains that your language makes it reasonable to assume that you are assuming something.

8 minutes ago, CrystalSpark said:

If you wanted to wait in the first place and are satisfied with it, why would you be complaining, that was what I assuming, that you didn't want to wait. So either rush or provide a new method; however, both methods are probably gonna take the same amount of time to accomplish, so therefore might as well rush it with plat.

I don't want to wait? Are you kidding? You're just brown nosing if you say people want to wait. If people wanted to wait, why is internet speed always increasing? Why do pizza places say "30 mins or it's free?" Why do people get impatient in traffic? I could go on forever.

 

6 minutes ago, CrystalSpark said:

I'm similar and I enjoy doing other things like helping my friend grind xp or whatever while I wait for the crafting times to finish as well...The crafting time in a sense, gives me some freedom, so to speak...

Freedom? Being able to choose between two choices isn't freedom. There is a difference between freedom and choice/free will.

Warframe already has a nice pace to it, an ebb and flow. You have the mid-high moments in game and at the reward screen, the rush of "what am I gonna get?" Then you have a nice low period where you are forced back to your ship/relay/ect, and you have time to adjust your loadout and play inventory management. A big sign telling you that you can't get this for twelve hours puts an (in my opinion) big slump in that ebb and flow. 

[CosmicHermitCrab]

3 hours ago, SeriousBread said:

It is just awful. Awful awful awful. It's probably the one mechanic that I feel has no place in this game. Crafting times. This is a game about going fast, and going towards something. You spend up to hours grinding for materials, sometimes days if you don't have many hours to play. Then after all of that; boom. Twelve hours for your own ship to make a sword. Oh you wanted a second one? Another twelve hours please. Oh you want to hold them both at the same time? That's gonna cost you a forma (another time gated crafting item), and twelve more hours. Unless you throw money into your ship that is.

I know that in our world time is money, but our world also doesn't involve ships that travel faster than the speed of sound. But you know what money can buy is in the real world? Resources. My proposal is get rid of the crafting time gate, it's unintuitive and boring. Grinding is at least interactive to a degree that the player can control more or less. Replace the current "Rush" mechanic with something like "synthesize" and let us pay for the materials with platinum. Even make the cost 10p less than the item cost from the store to encourage players spending just that liiiitle bit more, and skip the blueprint and buy the item with potato included. It's not like credits mean anything with the index anyway. This could mean a massive rebalance in materials, adding some sinks as well for some players.

TL;DR: I don't want a time gate, and feel like waiting could be replaced with grinding.

 

_{edited a bit for clerity}

You haven't really explained what "synthesis" is in clarity. Haven't provided counter-arguments in how your solution is better than rushing crafting items. Haven't explained how your idea is so different from rushing, since you almost just replaced "rushing" with "synthesis."

That's why we have to assume things that you aren't aware of, you have more explaining to do...otherwise, claim you have no solution...

I'm sorry, but simply saying waiting is bad, isn't really an argument...people do wait in line...I could go on forever as well... (it's just a mere exaggeration, just like your exaggerations)

Edited October 8, 2018 by CrystalSpark

[SeriousBread]

I am not saying my solution is perfect. I've said that multiple times. Please read if you're going try and contribute in the future. It was a suggestion in the feedback forum for a reason. It's feedback, something that I feel could be improved. If you can 100% honestly tell me that you would rather have $20 in 20 minutes, then $20 right now, then you can tell me that waiting is good/needed."TL;DR: I don't want a time gate, and feel like waiting could be replaced with grinding." That is my "idea," my suggestion was to get a discussion going, but it turned into "waiting is good because what you said is bad." I have explained my points to the best of my abilities. 

23 minutes ago, CrystalSpark said:

people do wait in line...

No one picks the longest line at the grocery store. Edit: Not unless your parent told you to go to the cheque out while they go get something else. Then you gotta be tactical.

Edited October 8, 2018 by SeriousBread

[CosmicHermitCrab]

11 minutes ago, SeriousBread said:

I am not saying my solution is perfect. I've said that multiple times.

Dude, I don't even know what your solution exactly is because you didn't even explain how it's different from the current rush system. If you can pay for the materials with plat (from synthesis), that's almost the same thing as rushing it with plat. Another player kinda pointed this out and you bluntly ignored the player.

How do you expect DE to do any reasonable changes according to this, by reading your mind?

Do you think Albert Einstein just merely gave his equations and people listened to him? No, he had to fight back and explain in English (well maybe not English for him) how the formulas worked. It's hard to take someone seriously if you don't understand what s/he is talking about.

I'm sorry, but I'm tired of OPs posting threads of suggested ideas that aren't even fully established, it's purely lazy and unproductive.

Edited October 8, 2018 by CrystalSpark

[hellodownthere]

3 hours ago, SeriousBread said:

-snip-

so? you want your twin kronkors you wait simple. It's so you have a reason to login tomorrow, meaning that you'll be playing the game more, it's actually really smart on DE.

Edited October 8, 2018 by hellodownthere
added the snip

[SeriousBread]

4 minutes ago, CrystalSpark said:

that's almost the same thing as rushing it with plat. Another player kinda pointed this out and you bluntly ignored the player.

That was more or less the point... I thought I answered the players question when I said that grinding is interactive where as waiting is not. I still want DE to have money, so I tried to come up with a suggestion that could still bring in money, but remove the waiting game. No one likes waiting, and I really feel like this game has a great ebb and flow that has no need to be interrupted by said wait.

[SeriousBread]

2 minutes ago, hellodownthere said:

so? you want your twin kronkors you wait simple. It's so you have a reason to login tomorrow, meaning that you'll be playing the game more, it's actually really smart on DE.

Smart from a monetization way yes, but I still question it because I'm focused on the consumer. I'm more or less hoping that if the margin of profit is low enough from rushing, and enough people don't like, it would be removed. I can concede 100% that it is a smart business move, but I'm a hippy either way.

[CosmicHermitCrab]

13 minutes ago, SeriousBread said:

That was more or less the point... I thought I answered the players question when I said that grinding is interactive where as waiting is not. I still want DE to have money, so I tried to come up with a suggestion that could still bring in money, but remove the waiting game. No one likes waiting, and I really feel like this game has a great ebb and flow that has no need to be interrupted by said wait.

Ah, so you've been arguing based on principles than practicalness this whole time. I feel like there's a flaw with that kind of reasoning, but whatever. The thing is, as you can see, the community doesn't like great changes, especially for small gains. Both of those systems, rushing and synthesis, accomplish the same thing in about the same amount of time. In the end, it doesn't really matter which route you go, they produce the same desired outcome within the same desired time. Now, I know you want fun, but others might think it's more fun to not have to grind so much for the same thing over and over again, and instead wait it out and do something else while you wait.

Is grinding the same thing over and over again over a long period of time something that players often complain about as well? Yes...

The main reason why everyone seems to be against your idea, is they are afraid of the increase in grind from the idea...Grinding is interactive, but the community clearly doesn't want too much of grinding.

Edited October 8, 2018 by CrystalSpark

[SeriousBread]

I thought I made that clear by saying words like "pro consumer" and the first post saying "I know that in our world time is money." Since you brought up things that have been ignored; no comment on you assuming(making an ass out of you and me), then forgetting what you said when I didn't bother to quote the entire sentence? Seems pretty hypocritical if I need to answer to everything when you can chose not to answer a question directed towards you.

 

[CosmicHermitCrab]

6 minutes ago, SeriousBread said:

Seems pretty hypocritical if I need to answer to everything when you can chose not to answer a question directed towards you.

The term "hypocritical" is a subjective opinion. Even if I was hypocritical, it's irrelevant to how much you want to enforce this new idea of yours...I'm just trying to help...The main reason why I don't respond to all of your questions is because some of them will either go off-topic or waste more valuable time.

I do agree though, it's more unfair the position that OPs have to be in than the responders.

Edited October 8, 2018 by CrystalSpark

[SeriousBread]

6 minutes ago, CrystalSpark said:

The term "hypocritical" is a subjective opinion. Even if I was hypocritical, it's irrelevant to how much you want to enforce this new idea of yours...I'm just trying to help...

"Hypocrisy. the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense."

Please, read the entire posts. You clearly ignored my question for a second time. And from what you said about me "bluntly ignoring another player" it would suggest that you are morally against ignoring questions.

Defending a morally questionable practice just because it's a free to play game and you like the company isn't exactly helping. Saying "your idea sucks because it's the same thing as rushing" isn't helping. Observation isn't criticism.

Edited October 8, 2018 by SeriousBread
hit enter early mb

[CosmicHermitCrab]

7 minutes ago, SeriousBread said:

"Hypocrisy. the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense."

Please, read the entire posts. You clearly ignored my question for a second time. And from what you said about me "bluntly ignoring another player" it would suggest that you are morally against ignoring questions.

Well, make it easier for me if it means so much to you than your suggested feature to the game. What is this grand question you want me to answer, the third time?

7 minutes ago, SeriousBread said:

Defending a morally questionable practice just because it's a free to play game and you like the company isn't exactly helping. Saying "your idea sucks because it's the same thing as rushing" isn't helping. Observation isn't criticism.

I actually complained about DE various times in the past. Also, why are we talking about ethics or morals now? I'm getting more confused now...

I'm not even trolling, I'm honestly very confused. I don't want to make any arguments while I'm confused because you will just claim I'm assuming wrong things again...

Edited October 8, 2018 by CrystalSpark

[SeriousBread]

1 minute ago, CrystalSpark said:

Well, make it easier for me if it means so much to you than your suggested feature to the game. What is this grand question you want me to answer, the third time?

The question was that was is it fair to think that your language, "The OP might as well be grinding plat than whatever else, anyways, since s/he needs to rush crafting" is assuming that I need to rush crafting. I have been doing my best to admit to my faults in writing, I know it's not my best skill. If you are trying to help, try to do more then say "it's better this way because it's always been done this way." That's not productive, it's dismissive.

[CosmicHermitCrab]

5 minutes ago, SeriousBread said:

The question was that was is it fair to think that your language, "The OP might as well be grinding plat than whatever else, anyways, since s/he needs to rush crafting" is assuming that I need to rush crafting. I have been doing my best to admit to my faults in writing, I know it's not my best skill. If you are trying to help, try to do more then say "it's better this way because it's always been done this way." That's not productive, it's dismissive.

Well, from reading the entire thread, I was assuming that instead of farming for whatever is required to complete synthesis, grind plat with the current rush system instead. The context was basically the OP, but I'm still not 100% sure how synthesis works, which is why I'm asking for that information...I basically guessed what synthesis was...

Edited October 8, 2018 by CrystalSpark

[SeriousBread]

13 minutes ago, CrystalSpark said:

Also, why are we talking about ethics or morals now?

Because as someone who is Pro consumer, the morals of a waiting gate that can be skipped with money, to me, isn't exactly the most moral way to monetize a game, which is why I would like something to replace it, while knowing that DE still needs money.

"Well, from reading the entire thread, I was assuming that instead of farming for whatever is required to complete synthesis, grind plat with the current rush system instead."

Yes but this isn't the "help" or whatever forum, this is the feedback forum. I wasn't looking for a way to play the game or a way to avoid it. I was giving my feedback on the time gate.

Edited October 8, 2018 by SeriousBread

[CosmicHermitCrab]

Okay, but what exactly is synthesis and how do we know that purchasing the items with outright plat isn't quicker than doing the synthesis process? (not talking about rushing this time) You said it'll cost 10p cheaper than the cost of the entire built item along with inventory slot and catalyst equipped...that doesn't seem to be a very practical solution to me.

Edited October 8, 2018 by CrystalSpark

[SeriousBread]

9 minutes ago, CrystalSpark said:

Okay, but what exactly is synthesis and how do we know that purchasing the items with outright plat isn't quicker than doing the synthesis process? (not talking about rushing this time) You said it'll cost 10p cheaper than the cost of the entire built item along with inventory slot and catalyst equipped...that doesn't seem to be a very practical solution to me.

Are you reading the goddamn posts? You are focusing on a minor point. My main idea, is that time gating is stupid, and that grinding is at least more interactive. The inclusion of an alternative was acknowledging that DE needs money. As I've said, my idea isn't perfect, it isn't even close to good apparently.  The title of this post is "Can we get rid of this mobile like time gate?" not "Rushing is bad, my idea is perfect and we should do it." Once again, observation isn't criticism. Just stating something isn't helpful. What would be a practical solution? I saw what I thought was a problem, and wanted to see if we can remove it. I'm not the messiah. 

[CosmicHermitCrab]

I seen many good features being proposed in the feedback threads and most of them are ignored, anyways. Which sucks and is sad in a way. However, if there's no good (widely agreed) suggested solution to this problem, I don't think DE will seriously do anything about it. That's just how things work in most feedback threads, in most communities. You can observe all you want, until you come up with some ideas, nothing will probably be done about it...

Not trying to argue at this point, just explaining that nothing will probably be done about it.

33 minutes ago, SeriousBread said:

Because as someone who is Pro consumer, the morals of a waiting gate that can be skipped with money, to me, isn't exactly the most moral way to monetize a game...What would be a practical solution? I saw what I thought was a problem, and wanted to see if we can remove it...

Are you a manager of anything by any chance?

11 minutes ago, SeriousBread said:

I'm not the messiah. 

Neither am I and most folks don't give grand ideas for free nowadays...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The bottom line is, if you really care about changing something, sometimes you gotta get things done yourself...

Edited October 8, 2018 by CrystalSpark

[Oreades]

Early on the wait time can feel very oppressive, when you have pretty much nothing gear wise to really tide you over and all you want to do is play with your new (insert macguffin). I mean shortly after I started I remember shooting my friend a Steam message asking if DE even wanted me to play their game because all I wanted to do was play with whatever it was I was crafting and the crafting timer pretty much felt like it was telling me "whelp you're done for the day". 

However as the game progresses and your inventory fills out the "sit and wait" timer becomes far less relevant. Because you have other stuff to do and a small arsenal of weapons that you really enjoy. 

Personally I think it would be a good idea if DE added some "rush tokens" along with the starter plat. So people could rush a few weapon/frame builds. Which would take some of the edge off of the new player experience as well as giving people a "free taste" of the rush for plat system. Maybe like 4? And only have them apply to things with more than a 10hr timer. So they they don't rush something like really unwisely. 

 

4 hours ago, ShinTechG said:

The time gates on crafting are there so you don't burn through content too fast. If you can't wait, spend platinum to rush it. I really don't see any issues with the crafting time gates right now as no one is forcing you to wait. You have options

If it was actually there to keep people from burning through content then there would be no rush option. 

The reason it exists is so there can be a rush option that people will maybe spend  money (plat) on and there is nothing wrong with that. It's one of the few places they can put real money transactions without people (for the most part) exploding. 

[SeriousBread]

19 minutes ago, CrystalSpark said:

The bottom line is, if you really care about changing something, sometimes you gotta get things done yourself...

So as a player, I'm doing what I can. I'm letting the company know on their feedback forums that I disagree with the time gate. What else can I do? You want me to go and get a job at DE and work my way up high enough in the company chain that I can even realistically bring up the idea of changing the way the platform generates profit? 

 

9 minutes ago, Oreades said:

-snip-

I agree with a lot of this. I really like the idea of Rush tokens as well. Maybe from an event or new faction/dealer? The more I think about it the more that I feel it would be a good compromise. Sort of like how you can get potatoes from sorties. 

I've heard that same story when trying to get friends into the game. It's something that adds to warframes already challenging noob phase. It for sure is a smaller problem when you have access to more of the game. 

[CosmicHermitCrab]

4 minutes ago, SeriousBread said:

So as a player, I'm doing what I can. I'm letting the company know on their feedback forums that I disagree with the time gate. What else can I do? You want me to go and get a job at DE and work my way up high enough in the company chain that I can even realistically bring up the idea of changing the way the platform generates profit? 

Taking it too literal, just tell us how to change the game in order to take out rushing. Like I have asked many times, you haven't explained the solution to the problem. That's how you will be "doing it yourself." 

And I disagree that it's a minor point, it should be one of the main points of this entire thread, otherwise the thread will just die away to whatever.

Edited October 8, 2018 by CrystalSpark

[CosmicHermitCrab]

19 minutes ago, Oreades said:

Personally I think it would be a good idea if DE added some "rush tokens" along with the starter plat. So people could rush a few weapon/frame builds. Which would take some of the edge off of the new player experience as well as giving people a "free taste" of the rush for plat system. Maybe like 4? And only have them apply to things with more than a 10hr timer. So they they don't rush something like really unwisely.

The only problem I see with this, is that there are various crafting times depending on the item. I think it might be best to get "free rush time" points or whatever. Basically get time as a currency because using a token on a 1 minute rush is kinda a waste of a token.

[SeriousBread]

1 minute ago, CrystalSpark said:

Taking it too literal, just tell us how to change the game in order to take out rushing. Like I have said many times, you haven't explained the solution to the problem. That's how you will be "doing it yourself."

 

30 minutes ago, CrystalSpark said:

I seen many good features being proposed in the feedback threads and most of them are ignored, anyways.

I feel as if you are holding some conflicting ideas. Even if I did present a 100% better solution, wouldn't it be ignored?
The way to get things changed in an online game is to be loud and complain. If you enough people complain, the company will be looked at. 
I have no credentials to prove I have a guaranteed more profitable, more player friendly solution, you wouldn't believe me. I wouldn't expect that, I never expected it.
If this thread drummed up enough noise, then I would be a voice in a crowd. That's still doing something. I trust the professionals who have been making this game better, to make a better design then I could.

[SeriousBread]

Just now, CrystalSpark said:

The only problem I see with this, is that there are various crafting times depending on the item. I think it might be best to get "free rush time" points or whatever. Basically get time as a currency because using a token on a 1 minute rush is kinda a waste of a token.

You didn't even read two and a half lines! He even mentions making it only work on things with a timer of 10 hour or more. 

[Oreades]

4 minutes ago, SeriousBread said:

I really like the idea of Rush tokens as well. Maybe from an event or new faction/dealer? The more I think about it the more that I feel it would be a good compromise. Sort of like how you can get potatoes from sorties. 

I could see them as a one time thing like the starter plat to help take the edge off but if they ever actually made it into the game I highly doubt they would be a farmable item. 

There really aren't a lot of "empty" potentially recurring plat sinks in the game and having a farmable item that closed one of the only real sinks seems like it would compound plat inflation. Not that I think Rushing takes a lot of plat out of the game but it takes more than none.