dual wield unique sidearms (possibly balanced)

[NovusKnight]

hey there. One thing that has bugged me for a good while is pretty much why some sidearms can't be dual wielded. That's when I was new to the game. In time, i understood some simply haven't had a double version released - such as pyrana, which has it via the prime version.

still, the idea of my ninja having a free hand and not use it bums me a lot.

so i thought about some way of getting this addressed. A few problems sprung up: One being weapon slot and balance, the other being melee and sidearm pairings, which iirc will include most melee types with melee3.0. Lastly, the issue that some sidearms have the potential of being dual wielded.

my suggestion is one that i believe dances around these issues without being too overpowered.

mechanics:

-All sidearms in use take 2-4x longer to reload, depending on sidearm, for balance reasons.

-the ability to zoom in is lost, and so is the ability to change fire modes.

- right click fires the sidearm in your right hand, left click the other. They can be fired completely independent from the other. This is why zooming is impossible, and it opens up the possibility of having NO DOWNTIME WITH RELOADS if you have proper trigger discipline and always ensure one weapon has ammo while the other one reloads. It also allows otherwise impossible firepower with secondaries, since one could potentialy be firing two weapons simultaneously, like pairing a hystrix with a stubba - the end result being much higher dps than either could do on its own. The reloads taking longer further encourage this discipline; failing to keep your trigger control on point may leave you unable to return fire far longer than normal.

- accuracy, firerate, ammo capacity, and all other traits remain completely the same.

HOW IT WORKS: 

-when using a single sidearm as your secondary slot, opening the primary menu allows you to select a second secondary to use instead of your primary. This only includes other single sidearms.

-each pistol can have its own build. 

- it is possible indeed to use two of the same pistols and create FAKE aksidearms. this allows one to actually, say, pick a Lex prime, pick another Lex prime, and still use both in case the aklex bp and link can't be found; however, a proper ak version would both reload a LOT faster (since in that situation you invested resources into properly using both weapons seamlessly, i.e. LINKING them (i always imagined the *link* component as some kind of ballistics plug in for the warframe to be able to coordinate and aim two guns at once)) and allow you to bring a regular primary along. This means doing such a thing can perhaps let you test out how an akversion feels without fully investing in it, or dedicating time and effort into building one - but taking this shortcut also cripples you painfuly, removing a primary and forcing painful reloads.

there's a lot i like about this idea, both stylisticaly and mechanicaly.

- it opens up the possibility of creating unique combo sidearms, further increasing player choice and diversity. Further, with each sidearm having a separate build, it's unlikely to find two people using dual sidearms in similar ways.

- it allows one to specialize and fine tune a akpistol build in ways that would not be possible before. Each sidearm has its own forma, it's own mods, and can be coordinated, handled, and fired entirely independently from the other. Sacrificing a primary, potentially losing ammo sustainability, taking twice the time to level the sidearms, spending forma on more than one weapon, and then needing to maintain trigger discipline, while being limited in how far away you can remain fully accurate and losing glide parkour options, let's you unleash higher damage than normal, while letting you create your own 'combo'. It could be possible to, for instance, dual wield a pair of unlinked Lex primes. one of them has max status, increased ammo capacity, corrosive and blast, reduced recoil, faster reload, doesn't even have damage on it, while the other one is your typical crit Lex prime for blasting heads. This gives you all the cruel, cruel damage of a Lex prime crit headshot, with the nice boost of reliably stripping armor with your spare gun and providing cc, and sustaining fire with little damage but reliable knockdowns while reloading your main gun.

- it opens up the possibility to create playstyles that feel unique. Weapon choices become paramount in this mode. You can:

-use a knell coupled with a hystrix (which could get it's damage type changed through color, Chroma style?) and reliable spam cc-centric needles to stun enemies and open up head shot chains with knell.

- use a euphona prime coupled with a stubba. Aim at enemy, unload with stubba, disintegrate heads now and then with euphona slugs, or just use both at once against heavy units, sustaining fire in-between euphona rounds.

- couple a status weapon to debuff enemies with a high damage option. there's so much to pick from i won't even give examples.

- give yourself a secondary firemode by using a sidearm paired with explosive pistols like angstrum or kulstar.

- maximize your explosive output by combining two explosive pistols. C'mon. Use two kulstars on a mirage. Embrace your destiny.

- opening up meme builds. Try using dual knells! how about dual stugs? Why choose between Lex prime or vaykor marelok when you can use both? Or why not bring a brakk and a pyrana for murder up close? What about double beam weapons?

 

feedback is welcome. Personaly i think this can be balanced, but I'm obviously open to ideas.

[peterc3]

16 hours ago, NovusKnight said:

-each pistol can have its own build. 

This can't be balanced. This enables the Damage 2.0 Rainbow build. I don't see how you disallow that and keep both weapons being able to be modded separately.

16 hours ago, NovusKnight said:

- right click fires the sidearm in your right hand, left click the other.

This, to me, sounds hellish.

[NovusKnight]

about the Rainbow Build... you perhaps have a point. I was obviously aware that allowing this kind of damage output should come with harsh costs, and I thought maybe the massive increases to reload time would be a fair price. all in all, you can either use both guns cautiously to complement one another and coverup reloads (and never really reach peak DPS of magdumping two weapons on your enemies) but simultaneously you can choose to indeed magdump both weapons and utterly eradicate a few enemies super quick, only to then be disarmed for ~6 seconds.

come to think of it, 6 seconds is basicaly nothing for frames with strong CC. say, a Vauban, 6 seconds of reload on him are perfectly safe... mmmm, you may have a point. perhaps accuracy should suffer, too?

as for right/left click firing, it's quite strange at first, yes. I basicaly took the idea from Borderlands 2 Gunzerker class, where you do _exactly this_ but with _any_ two weapons. double shotguns, double bazookas, a machinegun and a sniper... etc. however it's not that hard to get used to, I think.

[voltocitygel]

On 2018-10-09 at 5:14 AM, NovusKnight said:

about the Rainbow Build... you perhaps have a point. I was obviously aware that allowing this kind of damage output should come with harsh costs, and I thought maybe the massive increases to reload time would be a fair price. all in all, you can either use both guns cautiously to complement one another and coverup reloads (and never really reach peak DPS of magdumping two weapons on your enemies) but simultaneously you can choose to indeed magdump both weapons and utterly eradicate a few enemies super quick, only to then be disarmed for ~6 seconds.

come to think of it, 6 seconds is basicaly nothing for frames with strong CC. say, a Vauban, 6 seconds of reload on him are perfectly safe... mmmm, you may have a point. perhaps accuracy should suffer, too?

as for right/left click firing, it's quite strange at first, yes. I basicaly took the idea from Borderlands 2 Gunzerker class, where you do _exactly this_ but with _any_ two weapons. double shotguns, double bazookas, a machinegun and a sniper... etc. however it's not that hard to get used to, I think.

Accuracy should definitely suffer.

this is a cool idea, but to make it work I think you need to double the time it takes to reload (or more depending on the weapon), and half accuracy. The double and half is exactly what the ak weapons do- they double mag size, fire rate, and reload speed while halving accuracy. 

Otherwise, a cool idea. 

That said... just uh. Think of. How happy this would make Mesa players. Or people who want ak vasto prime.