Tanks dont exist in warframe and here's why.

[TheKazz91]

@Axio. I'll digress and give you that with her current kit Nyx may potentially count as a tank but I still feel like it's a bit of a stretch and even if we are counting it is still a fringe case which is an outlier to the typical game play. Even if we are going to say that she is 100% a tank does that mean that anyone that wants to fill that role has to play Nyx? I would say that is a bad model. Tanking should be a role not 1 or 2 warframes. The thing is we have plenty of frames that can easily fit that role based on the amount of damage intake they can deal with we just need to give them a way to draw enemy fire away from allies. 

I've still not really heard any reasonable argument as to why adding a threat rating (or what ever you want to call it) on to weapons out side of "It will take time for the devs to flush out that system." Doing something like this would only make Nyx a more effective tank if we are going to count her as a tank because now while absorb is up she is getting even more enemies to shoot at her because she is using a weapon with high threat while it is up, Then while it is down she can switch to her other weapon which could have a very low threat and let chaos "take aggro" It just furthers this idea that weapons in warframe are tools and deciding which weapons to use and how to mod them has just as much impact on your play style as what warframe you pick. 

Edited October 13, 2018 by TheKazz91

[Xzorn]

1 hour ago, TheKazz91 said:

Yes being able to redirect damage taken onto yourself is definitely a tanking ability However it is a pretty ineffective form of tanking. This is because you as the tank cannot manage your damage intake. If there is some amount of avoidable damage coming in or if there is an unavoidable damage spike if those things are targeting you then you can either A. avoid that damage or B. Actively mitigate that damage. If you are just soaking damage dealt to other players then they may be standing in napalm fire or some head butting bombard rockets that they could be dodging but because they are not the ones actually taking the damage they just don't think it matters. I don't think a tank should make it so that other players don't have to put effort or thought into surviving but rather than if they are putting some thought into staying alive that it is significantly less likely that they will be instagibbed in more difficult content. 

 

I made mention of the first known use of "tank" as a role because that's the fundamental concept. " 1992 on Usenet to describe the warrior class on BatMUD which had high hit points and the rescue skill, which allowed transferring one attacking mob from another player to the rescuing character "

This was the first known tank class.

Aggro / Threat was something used in later MMOs around the time of EverQuest in 1998 as a tanking mechanic.

The concept is one player directly adverting damage from another player to themselves. The means by which doesn't really matter and as such you can't really set a standard of what is and isn't a tank. Unless they simply don't do that basic concept.

Nyx can keep Assimilate up forever given a certain level range and doesn't need a Trinity. She can use two Energize sets. The threat difference is small but technically makes her a tank. If you and your friend stand equal distance from an enemy that enemy will always attack Nyx. Threat difference in Warframe amounts to distance from the enemy since Nyx can create more threat she diverts attacks from you up to a certain distance beyond where you'd normally be in danger. It's hard to explain how Nyx works if you haven't played her but distance means everything and it's a notable amount compared to something like Radiation status.

I'm not trying to argue Tanking is a viable strategy in Warframe. It really isn't but there have been and still is at least one "tank".

 

Edited October 13, 2018 by Xzorn

[Axio.]

@TheKazz91

That's just it, though. Nyx isn't the only frame with an increased threat mechanic. Nidus' Maggots, Nekros' Shadows, Loki's Decoy and Saryn's Molt, Titania's Razorflies, Octavia's Mallet, Mirage's Hall of Mirrors... There's even two Melee mods, Guardian Derision and the Ack and Brunt Exclusive mod called Electromagnetic Shielding, which work wonderfully when used in tandem with each other, or even as standalones. Of course, you have to be close to your teammates in order for these mods to be useful, but if you wanted to work as a tank for your team, the chances are highly probable that you'll be sticking closely to them as often as you can during the mission. Atlas even has an augment for his Rumbler ability that spawns a single, giant rumbler which actively taunts nearby enemies.

Also, after doing some digging, Rhino's Iron Skin used to increase his threat level. It's unclear when this was removed, but the sources I found indicate that this feature was removed prior to Update 10, so it was quite some time ago. I don't know why it was removed, but if I had to guess, it was because it was making life far too easy for people who were in squad with a Rhino... Not to mention, back then, Rhino was insanely Meta, and people were often using him in favor of other frames that would have suited the missions and situations better, causing him to receive a plethora of nerfs so that Rhinoframe ceased to be.

[TheKazz91]

@Xzorn

I am not sure what the point of bring in the "original tank" really serves I already agreed that redirecting damage to your self IS a form of tanking just that it isn't a particularly good method due to the fact that you are not able to manage damage intake out side of maybe turning it off and giving the rest of your team a big middle finger if they are relying on you having that ability up. Again yes that is a form of tanking you are right. It is still a moot point because out side of the Ack&brunt mod nothing in warframe does this anyway and as stated it is not particularly effective or fun way to tank. I am not trying to "set a standard" of what is and isn't considered tanking especially because like I said in the comment you quoted me: this method is a form of tanking. I am really not sure how I can make that any clearer... As far as Nyx I've previously stated that even if we are counting Nyx as a tank which is a matter of some debate she is an outlier. 

@Axio.

Out side of Nekros and conditionally Mirage none of those frames have the survivablity to be considered tanks even with the ability to draw aggro with varying effectiveness. And most of these are not even that effective. You already conceded that Nidus's maggots are not effective at drawing aggro, Loki's decoy does work for him but that is also irrlevent because he can just go invisible and though can target him anyway, Saryn's Molt barely does anything, it might generate enough threat to allow you to revive a team mate if it is between you and the enemy and even then is is unreliable, Titania's razor flies are uncontrollable and only effect up to 6 targets if they each go to a different target which they generally all go to the same target so it is basically taunting 1 random enemy within 30 meters which could be butcher that can't damage her at all anyway because the whole flying thing makes melee hard, Octavia's Mallet is fairly effective so I'll give you that one, Hall of Mirrors is weird because oddly enough it is actually worse at keeping her alive at low levels than it is at high levels due to the poor accuracy of enemies at low levels scattering on to Mirage when they are targeting one of her mirrors. I also doesn't actually increase threat respective to other team mates only to Mirage her self. Mirage is actually probably one of the only ones here that it is even debatable because her 3rd ability gives her a 90% DR while standing in shadows. That being said standing around in one place isn't exactly a good strategy for staying alive in warframe even if you are someone like Inaros who is an unkillable god. That is also the exact issue with Guardian Derision and Electromagnetic shielding both of which are highly unreliable due to the high mobility and rapid movement in Warframe, one bullet jump from either party and the effect is gone it is unreasonable to expect a squishy player to say within 12-15 meters of the rhino at all times especially because the rhino is generally going to be in the thick of things surrounded by enemies when what ever squishy frame you're playing usually wants to be on the edge of the room where there are fewer enemies. 

 

All of this being said I really think you're approaching this from the wrong direction. I honestly don't think warframes should have abilities that generate threat. I think that is possibly one of the worst ways to implement some sort of aggro/threat management system into warframe. Tanking should not be something that you have to actively put a lot of thought into in warframe it should just naturally happen. Focusing too much on warframes and how their kit works is one of points this is trying to address. Allowing many options to be viable is what this is trying to address. The best way to achieve this in my mind is to add a threat rating on to weapons so that weapons become your mode of generating or dropping threat. This provides flexibility. If you want to use any of the frames you mentioned above to try to screen squishier frames by all means go for it. If  you'd rather just take a Baza as ember so you're less likely to be shot at than the rhino with a Soma modded for high threat then do that. It is about choice and allowing players the choice to use frames with lower survivabiliy in high level endgame content with a reasonable expectation that they can be successful doing that. 

It feels like you are arguing against this system because a half functional system already exists while not actually commenting at all on the pro or cons of what I am suggesting. It's like saying why should we build a highway if we have dirt roads?