Power Donation possibly detrimental to Speedva. Change Speedva?

[(PSN)watt4hem]

Since it has a downside to it, i don't think people would use it outside premade squads. And if someone is using it for their spova, chances are you won't need to go spova, so you can always do amd. 

[Grekkatarq]

2 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

that self damage mod isnt an aura. 

True I just came up with it because I felt to say about a word. You are right I just added to my comment because felt to talk about it and accidentally wrote aura. 

[(PSN)Dark-TailedFox]

27 minutes ago, BoarWarrior said:

Off-topic, but why does everyone call it power strength when mods say ability strength? I must've missed something again.

Back in the day (and looking to the left of your build), ability strength increases your power strength. Also, they used to be called power strength for a long time so that's the term that still sticks today.

[Helch0rn]

2 hours ago, Talinthis said:

Wondered the same thing the second it was announced on devstream that the power would mess up nova. Also I dont understand the gear wheel thing. Why do they just say more than 12 slots? It makes little sense

because saying the real number would be pointless.

The gear wheel turns into a spiral with more slots than you will ever need.

if I remember correctly it's in the hundreds

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, Grekkatarq said:

The better question is what if all four player using this aura? If everyone have a -30 and plus 30 powerstrength then this will multiply or just negate it?

 

 

Everyone will end up with +60% power strength, so the mod isnt even useful in premades where Growing Power gives you 100% if everyone uses it.

It is simply a poorly thought out mod in its current state and will lead to more performance loss for SpeeVa builds, nothing else. It isnt even worth using on frames that dont rely on strength, like Limbo or Loki. Growing Power will be better even though it gives 5% less PS because the frames can make use if it even if they dont need it and it lowers the risk of #*!%ing up the performance of SpeedVa.

Sad part is, many people will use this mod anyway. Niche "pebble" builds for Atlas (that suck in general), Loki and Limbo players thinking they'll benefit the group etc. Not really sure what DE thought when they made this mod with such flaws.

A simple solution would be to add immunity to power strength buffs to it, so you simply use it to buff the group. This would have zero negative impact on others because if someone doesnt want strength they'd slot this aura and avoid it. Or they can make an exilus mod with that effect.

Edited October 11, 2018 by SneakyErvin

[Tsukinoki]

2 hours ago, Squeekly said:

This mod sounds specific to Nova and her speed capability,  and honestly should be a warframe specific aura,  this way having two or more speedva is the only problem. 

There are a few other frames that can easily use this without caring:
-Loki
-Zephyr
-Limbo
-Nyx
Possibly even Inaros depending on how you build him.

None of them need power strength for their most common builds and having +30% strength to everyone else without having a contingent activation or duration would help the rest of the group.

40 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Growing Power will be better even though it gives 5% less PS because the frames can make use if it even if they dont need it and it lowers the risk of #*!%ing up the performance of SpeedVa.

Please tell me: how is the hell is a Loki going to make use of growing power?  Literally none of his abilities or augments are affected by PS.
Or a Nyx, outside of really niche MC builds?  Which even then a fully maximized Mind Freak still isn't that useful for actually killing enemies and its usually better to run Assimilate that doesn't care about power.
Or a Limbo?

And I can count the number of times that I've run into a speedva in a pug on one hand.  Its not a common thing, so the chances of messing up a speedva is still incredibly low.

40 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Loki and Limbo players thinking they'll benefit the group

And they will in fact be benefiting the group.  Period.
Lets take a single Loki in your Squad and everyone else has growing power.  That now has a 105% PS bonus when you trigger a status effect with a weapon, and 30% PS bonus when you don't.
Hek, even if you run into 2 people that have the mod on, that now becomes 110% PS bonus when you trigger a status effect with a weapon and 60% PS bonus when you don't. 
Seems to mix in quite well with growing power and is overall quite beneficial for someone to use if their frame or build has absolutely zero use for PS.
How is that not a benefit to the group?
How is it doing anything negative at all?

Edited October 11, 2018 by Tsukinoki

[Hypernaut1]

2 hours ago, Zeclem said:

novas speed buff being unintentional does not mean a thing for a long time, and especially not for this discussion. and people "complain" cus the new "content" can hurt their playstyle in a way that they dont really have anything to do to prevent it from happening. 

i know the "use recruit system" excuse would pop up sooner or later. problem is, recruit is nowhere as quick as public missions at all and not everybody has the time to wait for a squad to pop up for their missions. 

Boy what if sometimes doesn't want their enemies speed up?

[Lakais]

Honestly I don't see OP's problem being... a problem. I SINCERELY doubt that we will ever see a full Pub comp of people running this aura. Ever. Maybe one or two every once in a while, styling themselves as honorable ones "taking one of the team" or the aforementioned speedvas. 

Tactically speaking, running this mod in anything but a premade organized team is insanity. Why the hell would I use THIS instead of CP? Unless I know for damn sure I am going to team up with someone who's going to make decent use of this bonus, I am not going to sacrifice the immeasurable benefit of passively cutting enemy armor. 

[LarryYourWaiter]

I’m way too greedy to gimp myself to boost my teammates.

[Zeclem]

30 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Boy what if sometimes doesn't want their enemies speed up?

same thing anybody else does when they got a frame that they dont wanna play with. suck it up.

and no, it isnt a same thing. this aura can literally make your build work completely different, much unlike that case.

[Guest]

A mod that is only useful for a min-max team and completely worthless in Solo (because why would anyone Speedva in solo?). I don't really see many people running this outside of a Premade Comp with a Speedva, as mentioned. There are just other auras that bring more utility for pugging/if you dunno the team comp. Can you imagine getting the +30% PS as a Limbo or Loki? It would be utterly inane.

Don't think we will see much of it ruining speedvas, therefore.

[Ohmlink]

I'm pretty sure most advice I've received has said to avoid running speeva outside of fixed groups.

Not uncommon for newbies to simply be overwhelmed by speedy enemies.

[Robolaser]

Play solo

[Joe_Barbarian]

3 hours ago, Zeclem said:

novas speed buff being unintentional does not mean a thing for a long time, and especially not for this discussion. and people "complain" cus the new "content" can hurt their playstyle in a way that they dont really have anything to do to prevent it from happening. 

i know the "use recruit system" excuse would pop up sooner or later. problem is, recruit is nowhere as quick as public missions at all and not everybody has the time to wait for a squad to pop up for their missions. 

Then that's simple to solve, don't run nova.

[(XBOX)Kuljack]

You could just... communicate with your team to ensure this doesn’t come up.

Playing in public matches presents a number of setbacks, this being a less offensive outcome than matching up with leeches.

[SneakyErvin]

2 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

.Please tell me: how is the hell is a Loki going to make use of growing power?  Literally none of his abilities or augments are affected by PS.
Or a Nyx, outside of really niche MC builds?  Which even then a fully maximized Mind Freak still isn't that useful for actually killing enemies and its usually better to run Assimilate that doesn't care about power.
Or a Limbo?

And I can count the number of times that I've run into a speedva in a pug on one hand.  Its not a common thing, so the chances of messing up a speedva is still incredibly low.

And they will in fact be benefiting the group.  Period.

Need and benefit are two different things. A full premade group that happens to have a Loki will simply make better use out of GP. There is no downside to it, no drawback compared to the coming Aura. With +100 strength Loki's and Limbo's #4 will in fact deal damage. It is also a 40% power strength difference between a full group using GP vs the new aura. So there is no scenario where the new aura will be better.

And even if you can count the number of times you've ran into a speedva in PuGs doesnt mean it is less of an issue or less of a pointless aura. There is no reason to slot it for any frame but Speedva since GP outscales it where it is useful for more frame i.e in pre-mades.

The Loki and Limbo wont be benefitting the group with the new aura as much as they would with GP, CP or SC, that is just how it is and there is an added "risk" using the new aura if you PuG. Quite simply, dont use it in survival/defense pugs where you know speedvas tend to pop up.

[Zeclem]

30 minutes ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

Then that's simple to solve, don't run nova.

yeah cus not using an entire frame that you like to use is a completely logical argument to discussion at hand. 

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

I might give this mod a whirl when it comes to consoles. I've been wanting to revamp my Nova build for a while anyway. Sure other players with the mod on could alter my build but I also don't care enough to let it bother me. I feel like I'd be smart enough to just not use MP if it slows the enemies down too much.

My 2 cents at least. I'll just wait to see what the PC guys do with Nova first and go from there.

[Oreades]

For Nova it's essentially the Prisoners Dilemma of Aura mods. 

If I understand how it could work out, just from a Speedva perspective based on numbers of Novas in the group. 

1. Prefect ratio for the Speedva -30%strength 
2. Neither Nova is now benefiting from the Aura as they would respectively cancel each other out.
3. Now all three Novas are gaining +30% PS instead of losing any
4. Now all four Novas are gaining +60% PS instead of losing any

So you essentially need to equip it as a Speedva to at the very least ensure that if another Speedva has is you aren't totally SOL. Because if they bring it and you don't you go right to +30% Power Strength. 

Now I doubt there are going to be games with four SpeedVa on the regular. But Two SpeedVa isn't horribly uncommon to run into when you are running PUG missions that benefit from a Speedva. If they are both relying on the aura for their speed points...... the aura is at the very least going to be reduced to a 0% change in their Power strength. 

I don't see this being a huge issue outside of Nova since Nova is really the only frame that I can think of that has a build that specifically benefits from negative power strength. There are other frames for whom negative PS isn't really an issue but they don't "go out of their way" to get it, it's just happens to be their dump stat. 

What I kinda see coming from this is where in the past where multiple Novas wouldn't be a huge thing because worst case scenario they would both be doing the same thing, Now that they are potentially canceling each other out, now it's potentially going to get hissy nasty between Novas. 

Kinda like it was with Limbo in the past where people would just leave the game if they saw a Limbo now if there is more than one Nova either one or both are instantly going to start dipping out. Or getting over aggressive about this game being "their" game and the other Nova needs to get the hecking heck out. Which either leaves the PUG group potentially without a Speedva if they both dip OR starts fostering some serious animosity amongst Speedva players. 

[SneakyErvin]

Too bad the opportunity that this mod could have brought to speedva is gone. What I'm talking about is the potential to stay at the +30% speed of the old build while also using a far lower rank overextended, resulting in much better management of her #1 charges, increasing her survivability when built for neutral or speed.

That is simply too risky with how the aura works.

[BallisticSalsa]

I feel like the problem is temporary.

-30% power strength isn't something that everyone is going to want. It will likely find a spot in ESO, eidolon hunts, or in premades where every player can benefit from  +90% power strength without the need for CP (four tuna maybe?).

Speedva is still good and nothing will happen to her role and nothing says she shouldnt pack the aura herself both to open mod space and buff the group further.

[Joe_Barbarian]

1 hour ago, Zeclem said:

yeah cus not using an entire frame that you like to use is a completely logical argument to discussion at hand. 

Yeah because this whole discussion about a specific build on a specific frame has a chance to not work as intended because pubbies in pubbie matches. Let me break this down for you:

1. If someone else is using Power Donation, either leave or put up and shut up.
2. If you're getting constant groups using a second or more of Power Donation, either take a break, play with friends or go recruit.
3. If you are dead set on using Speed Nova in public matches while also using Power Donation then be prepared for niche situations that might screw you up.

 

[Zeclem]

5 minutes ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

Yeah because this whole discussion about a specific build on a specific frame has a chance to not work as intended because pubbies in pubbie matches. Let me break this down for you:

1. If someone else is using Power Donation, either leave or put up and shut up.
2. If you're getting constant groups using a second or more of Power Donation, either take a break, play with friends or go recruit.
3. If you are dead set on using Speed Nova in public matches while also using Power Donation then be prepared for niche situations that might screw you up.

 

so just cus its not likely to happen much makes this feedback completely irrelevant? and then people wonder why majority of ppl in the game doesnt bother use the forums as all. 

[GrayArchon]

Growing Power does the same thing almost. In the end, I don't think there are enough cases where negative power strength is desired for this to be an issue. It's mostly just speed nova. There are always bound to be things that upset other people's play, but as long as it's minimal, I don't see much of an issue with it. I think the mod is interesting enough overall that it's worth it.

9 hours ago, Taranus said:

That’s discounting any possible players with coaction drift

Coaction Drift only affects the aura of the player with Coaction Drift, not anyone else's. I have a Nekros with Regeneration aura (weird, I know) and Coaction Drift. If I bring him to a mission, his Coaction Drift isn't going to be working on anyone else's Power Donation, just my Regeneration.

[Joe_Barbarian]

2 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

so just cus its not likely to happen much makes this feedback completely irrelevant? and then people wonder why majority of ppl in the game doesnt bother use the forums as all. 

Yeah because they are banging their heads against the wall with people like you that create niche situation and not let it go. Your niche situation isn't a problem, stop making a mountain out of an ant hill.