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Revenant last change?


Cris0407
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Just now, KelsierSurvivor said:

That would be a REALLY nice change, but it would almost turn Revenant into the next old Limbo. He would be a huge troll to everyone in the squad that wants to finish, say, Hydron.

Simple fix?

Enthralled enemies doesn't count as ENEMIES...

So no progress will be paused.

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1 minute ago, Cris0407 said:

Simple fix?

Enthralled enemies doesn't count as ENEMIES...

So no progress will be paused.

Actually... I could see that working. Kinda like Nekros' 4. 

However, that pretty much turns Revenant into an insta-kill any unit frame.

Edited by KelsierSurvivor
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9 minutes ago, KelsierSurvivor said:

That would be a REALLY nice change, but it would almost turn Revenant into the next old Limbo. He would be a huge troll to everyone in the squad that wants to finish, say, Hydron.

That problem is already gone a few patches back. Enthralled mobs count as dead mobs.

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1 minute ago, OptimumBow0 said:

If thralls had a health buff that scaled off either Revenant's own health or his power strength, that would be satisfactory. Invulnerability to allies goes a little far because then his 1 really is Nyx's but 7x better.

Nyx will get rework soon so :-

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3 hours ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

A change to Mesmer Skin to make it transparent and having an actual visible situational awareness for player playing Revenant would be ideal.

This is really the only thing that Revenant could use a slight tweak on.  He is worst than Zephyr when it comes to trying to see anything at night on the Plains of Eidolon because of the white mist of Mesmer Skin.  I have actually had a hard time finding the drone sometimes because of this.

If your squad can kill thralls easily it probably means they aren't that needed anyways.  I think it better to think of them as a minor stun in addition to Mesmer Skin much of the time.  While I make use of Enthrall quite a bit solo (mostly just because it is fun), I also find it kinda useful to make thralls quickly parkour through Rescue missions just in case the captive (or more likely a squad mate) get stuck somewhere before everyone can reach extraction.

 

 

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Revenant's abilities and stats just feel cobbled together w/o much interaction compared to other recent frames. Read me out:

He has very high shields, somewhat decent armour and decent health, that would suggest you use defensive mods on him, but just pressing 2 negates ALL damage, so using those mods actually affects him negatively. 

His 4 is fine imo. Fix the ability stats tho.

His 3... Boy.. sounds great on paper, works really bad in practice. It gives hp and shields when going through thralls, hp and shield you can't lose due to Mesmer Skin. It gives 1, ONE stack of M.S. per Thrall. That's a max of 7, which is really unlikely to happen unless you have 7 enemies doing a group hug. My build has 14 stacks of M.S. That means, AT BEST his 3 will give me 50% of what i'd get if I simply press 2 at 150% of the energy cost. See an issue here? 

His 2, Mesmer Skin: Ignoring the obnoxious cloud, WHO MEASURES TIMES DMG TAKEN IN A DECIMAL NUMBER? HOW CAN I BE DAMAGED 0.3 TIMES?!? Can I pet my helminth charger 4.7 times?! JUST ROUND THE THING, EITHER WAY GOES. Casting animation is arguably too long, but I'll accept it for the defence it provides.

His 1, enthrall: let's start with the fact that the in-game description is false. Stunned enemies by M.S. can't be enthralled for free. You can't use the ability on stunned enemies if you don't have energy. However having even 1 energy will be enough. That alone can differentiate between you dying or not. 

Pillars of death: seem fine even if not intended for the plains as it's too open for enemies to walk over them. 

Pillars of shield: sure, some overshields for squad members, fine. Nothing to write home about.

The limit of 7 is too little. Nyx's works because it can't be killed. These flickers drop dead the second I start casting the ability on them, most commonly by squadmates. Having it scale with power strength would be cool so it can match the stacks of M.S. they also act as real flies occasionally, just sitting there twindling their thumbs... I didn't mind control you so you can contemplate your short and questionable life's choices, I did it so I can watch you arm wrestle your buddies.

Passive: sure, it's not as bad as other ones, so whatever.

All in all, Revenant is combination of great ideas and bad execution. He could have been so much more with so little extra work. Too bad we won't see any change soon. 😭

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3 minutes ago, vasvaska said:

All in all, Revenant is combination of great ideas and bad execution. He could have been so much more with so little extra work. Too bad we won't see any change soon. 😭

I think Revenant is a just a great frame.  I think it is more of some players having an expectation of how he should work more than his actual power set.  

I actually run Revenant with Vitality and Redirection in my general build.  Yeah, yeah I know conventional wisdom is shields are a waste, but I find they work just fine for regular star chart missions allowing me to be very cavalier with my use of Mesmer Skin.  Plus, when it does matter in the second or so that recasting is done it is usually more than enough to weather any stray shots I take.

Reave is probably the power I use the least, however; it does have some pretty good utility.  I don't think DE ever intended a player to hit more than a handful (3-4) of Revenant's thralls with Reave.  That's fine, what I recover from it is no big deal.  Thing is, doing so is kinda like having a Viral proc go off to each one.  Pretty handy if you find yourself facing tough Nox without a proper weapon to take good headshots.  Plus, it is not impossible to hit all of your squad mates giving them a single Mesmer Skin if you want.  Granted, I would like the ability to control direction of Revenant instead a singe direction, but given how powerful Revenant is, that feel's greedy.

I never noticed that kind of thing with Mesmer Skin.  I usually have 14 stacks and occasionally more from another frame boosting my Strength.  The most I ever had was 27 which is far more than I would ever really need.  I almost never run out on non-static missions (like Capture/Extermination) where I am parkouring most of the time, and even in static missions I usually have more than enough to make it through a spawn wave of enemies easily. 

I think 7 (and sometimes eight) thralls is fine.  I every time I have used Revenant solo, I find that the enemy really does have a hard time breaking through than amount given the lowered spawn rate.  Only in larger squads does the 7 have a hard time holding back the rest of the enemies.  Which is fine, becuase rarely can I keep 7 around very long and even rarer would they be of much use alive anyways.  Thralls are disposable.  They are meant to die more than live.  If DE made them immune to ally damage they would quickly become more of annoyance than a use simply because too many players would waste time trying to kill them.  Even will all the changes DE has made to Nekros, players still try and attack them even if they know about Shadows of the Dead.  The same thing would happen with Revenant.  Speaking of Nekros, if you want a posse of enemies working for you, just play Nekros.  I like that Revenant's thralls can be killed by allies.  I use it all the time to de-tooth tough enemies for newer players be able to handle while I take care of another direction/area of enemies instead.

 I completely agree about the passive.  Revenant is really good so I am not really annoyed about his passive.

Honestly, I am glad that is very unlikely that Revenant is going to see any changes at this point.  I thought he was great at launch.  I even feel his tweaks kinda make him over powered.  But if everyone else doesn't think so, I will continue to have single digit Damage Taken stats and usually have 1st or 2nd Damage Dealt/Enemies Killed when I play him.

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11 hours ago, KelsierSurvivor said:

That would be a REALLY nice change, but it would almost turn Revenant into the next old Limbo. He would be a huge troll to everyone in the squad that wants to finish, say, Hydron.

 

11 hours ago, Cris0407 said:

Simple fix?

Enthralled enemies doesn't count as ENEMIES...

So no progress will be paused.

 

11 hours ago, KelsierSurvivor said:

Actually... I could see that working. Kinda like Nekros' 4. 

However, that pretty much turns Revenant into an insta-kill any unit frame.

That alredy is the case. Waves can continue with Thralls still being alive.

I'd love if only the thrall master and enemies could kill thralls. Would make him more viable in public matches.

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2 hours ago, Acersecomic said:

 

 

That alredy is the case. Waves can continue with Thralls still being alive.

I'd love if only the thrall master and enemies could kill thralls. Would make him more viable in public matches.

The option that allies can kill them is just making this ability useless...

Whenever I want to enhtrall someone... Someone killed him when I was casting it...

Only less than half my Enthralled enemies will live longer than 5 seconds...

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15 hours ago, Cris0407 said:

So all we need for Revenant is that The enthralled enemies are immune to ally damage...

It is so annoying that whenever I enthrall someone my allies just don't care...

 

1 hour ago, Cris0407 said:

The option that allies can kill them is just making this ability useless...

Whenever I want to enhtrall someone... Someone killed him when I was casting it...

Only less than half my Enthralled enemies will live longer than 5 seconds...

I don't think so. 

If your thralls keep dying, it's a good sign that they're not really needed. Exactly the same way that salty nidus players complaining about not being able to build their stacks because the team keeps killing everything can be casually ignored. 

15 hours ago, KelsierSurvivor said:

That would be a REALLY nice change, but it would almost turn Revenant into the next old Limbo. He would be a huge troll to everyone in the squad that wants to finish, say, Hydron.

That's where I leveled my Revenant. Didn't really have any problems. Zapped one as it came around the corner so it could convert some buddies, or a heavy gunner if I got lucky. 

 

Then eventually they'd all come cluster around, holding the wave back until I pressed 4 to wipe the slate and start again. 

 

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43 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

 

I don't think so. 

If your thralls keep dying, it's a good sign that they're not really needed. Exactly the same way that salty nidus players complaining about not being able to build their stacks because the team keeps killing everything can be casually ignored. 

 

Wrong. Them dying and not beng able to spread is bad as it makes the ability spammy and it makes for an annoying Revenant experience.

And things like that or Nidus cannot be casually ignored as it makes a frame and/or player experience redundant, WHICH BTW IS NOT A TRIVIAL THING. THAT IS HOW YOU GET CURRENT NYX.

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25 minutes ago, Acersecomic said:

Wrong. Them dying and not beng able to spread is bad as it makes the ability spammy and it makes for an annoying Revenant experience.

Ah yes, "spammy ability", much worse than "press 1 to win". It's not meant to last all mission long, and when they die while enthralled, they still remain useful. 

They're meant to die. Having them die isn't a problem. 

 

Oh and yes. I can casually ignore salty Nidus players. If they're not able to build stacks because stuff dies too fast, then they're wasting their time trying to build stacks, in order to kill things. 

Edited by (PS4)guzmantt1977
Added paragraph about high sodium nidus players.
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il y a 30 minutes, (PS4)guzmantt1977 a dit :

It's not meant to last all mission long, and when they die while enthralled, they still remain useful. 

They're meant to die. Having them die isn't a problem. 

I agree. If anything the problem is with how slow we are at creating them. Imo the problem is best solved by a) giving Enthrall a targeting mechanic akin to Ash's Shurikens, so more than one and automatically targeting those close to reticle or b) making Mesmer Skin auto enthrall the targets instead of having you manually try to single them out. 

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6 hours ago, Acersecomic said:

That alredy is the case. Waves can continue with Thralls still being alive.

I'd love if only the thrall master and enemies could kill thralls. Would make him more viable in public matches.

Revenant is the embodyment of viable in public matches and solo. He has 1 single skill that is slightly lacking in public matches, but still a good skill to use to lock down tougher mobs (if that was ever needed). Making it so you can only harm the mobs wouldnt make revenant more or less viable in public matches. Stopping to use his #1 is a waste of time and still would be.

He is after the changes to mesmer skin one of the top frames for practically any mission aside from possibly spy. Everything else he shines at. Massive damage output, insane survivability and very high mobility.

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5 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Ah yes, "spammy ability", much worse than "press 1 to win". It's not meant to last all mission long, and when they die while enthralled, they still remain useful. 

They're meant to die. Having them die isn't a problem. 

 

Oh and yes. I can casually ignore salty Nidus players. If they're not able to build stacks because stuff dies too fast, then they're wasting their time trying to build stacks, in order to kill things. 

Them lasting the whole match is not what I wanted to say. You having to constantly thrall just to have 1 thrall before it dies is the problem. Stacking thralls and having them die enmasse and leave pillars is a big part of fun factor with Revenant. Personaly I love the sound it makes.

Same for Nidus, though if they are trying to stack in Extermination or something similar, then the fault is on them as those are not his specialty.

 

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Revenant is the embodyment of viable in public matches and solo. He has 1 single skill that is slightly lacking in public matches, but still a good skill to use to lock down tougher mobs (if that was ever needed). Making it so you can only harm the mobs wouldnt make revenant more or less viable in public matches. Stopping to use his #1 is a waste of time and still would be.

He is after the changes to mesmer skin one of the top frames for practically any mission aside from possibly spy. Everything else he shines at. Massive damage output, insane survivability and very high mobility.

Oh don't get me wrong. With how immortal he is due to Mesmer skin he is one of the top frames and Thralls make for decent CC. I'm just saying that it is annoying to not be able to utilize his satisfying thralls, his standout ability. Something that can be seen.

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1 minute ago, Acersecomic said:

Them lasting the whole match is not what I wanted to say. You having to constantly thrall just to have 1 thrall before it dies is the problem. Stacking thralls and having them die enmasse and leave pillars is a big part of fun factor with Revenant. Personaly I love the sound it makes.

Same for Nidus, though if they are trying to stack in Extermination or something similar, then the fault is on them as those are not his specialty.

Again, if you are playing at such a low level, and in such a way that your thralls die before they can spread, or your nidus can't build stacks because everything is already dead, then it's not really a problem with the game, or with other players. 

It sounds like you're more concerned about being able to do something flashy than you are about the job getting done. Your teammates are clearly more interested in getting the job done. 

Trying to use a screwdriver, when what you need is a hammer, is also a generally bad idea. Just saying. 

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