[PC] C̶̹̃h̴̊̍̐͜i̶͓̩͛̽m̸̨̈́͘e̴̤̒ŕ̸͉͋̕å̸̙̭͕: Update 23.10 - Arbitrations: Lethal Alerts Feedback Megathread

[AreeSoothsayer]

In my gaming my highest deaths from from AoE loons in Radiation Sorties. So when I learned about this... I could not wait!

 

I am so... so... underwhelmed.

Higher level enemies.... that I cream in Sortie 3. Scaling speed of levels. Slooooow. 20 minutes in and the enemies were almost 10 levels higher. Defense... well he isn't random. He links up to someone and follows them. Too his doom usually. The drones did liven things up until I shot one.... buh. The only time I was challenged was what others have run into. Healer + Drone. Surrounded by protected enemies. The drone having 95% damage soak. It was the most epic 30s I have had in Warframe for a while. 

Make it dangerous? I don't ever want to see a <100 enemy. Don't scale up the time, scale up the spawns. When I guard a drill or defense object I was a hoard of enemies firing, and not the trash mobs that provide filler. The heavies, the techs, the nulls. Eximus as far as the eye can see. We're supposed to Die! Not slowly fall onto our keyboards drolling because we fell asleep.

 

Who says the Arbiters are the only ones to be involved in this? Throw in the npcs that we have with us when doing missions for them. Wreck us, Destroy us, make us weep in frustration to make it to the first rewards.

 

PS: My personal feedback and query. Can companions be added to the boost list? 300% to their damage, lifeshare, shieldshare, armorshare. 

[Klokwerkaos]

This may not be a popular idea right away but I think it will be soon:

I would like to see ayatan stars added to the reward pool.  I know people are going to say that stars are worthless, but they really aren't and won't be very soon.

Currently for rotation A statues have an 54% chance of dropping.  Maybe make each have 16% statue chance to drop and give blue star 6%

For rotation B 40% for statues maybe swap to 18% per statue and 4% amber star.

This allows that we don't get tons of statues with NO stars, yes, we still have to go out to regular missions to farm them, but at least this way it's not near impossible to get them here (and less chance as we farm endlessly), just a small chance that barely affects current statue drop rate.  In this fashion we can actually potentially use this as a minor endo farm alternative based on RNG over the current one, but very unlikey that it will yeild the same more consistent results of arena.

Amber star prices have already jumped through the roof (2p to 5p) and it hasn't even been a day, that's a 150% market increase in 24 hours and it's bound to go up more before it stabilizes and also destablize endo markets for maxed mods as well.  While we want things to be accessible to newer players, as prices drop for objects, people spend less and less cash on plat, and people farm less and less of an object.  When plat farms dry up that causes people to get bored and stop playing the game mode that rewards it (ie the brand new game mode we just got today).

I think diversifying the field just a little would really better stabilize the market.

I'm not against the market changing at all but this is going to make anasa values fall and amber star prices skyrocket, making getting an anasa from daily sortie be less of a "well at least it's worth plat" and more of a "well this is completely worthless except as a dojo decoration".

[Linisti]

These new alerts still have the same problems that normal game modes have: Spawns. I was sitting in an excavation with 3 other people waiting for power cell carriers to spawn for 20 mins, ended up leaving since nothing would spawn. I did a separate solo run for survival and just left at 20 mins because there were no spawns. One group for survival we had a pilferoid AND a nekros, yet we had to leave at 20 because there weren't enough enemies. We didn't die, we didnt have trouble killing enemies: no enemies would spawn. I dont see how this is difficulty. Please just do what players have been asking for years and buff spawns. Make solo runs viable, make us not have to be stuck to this camping meta of pilfering swarm hydroid, nekros, and speedva. I didn't leave those "Elite Alert" runs because they got difficult, I left because they got tedious. Either reverse the life support change, or buff spawns. (Or both, both would be just as good). Do whatever you have to: make them not drop resources like ESO, make them give no focus (ouch), make them lvl 200+: just make them actually spawn.

[Tyanya]

Hi there everyone

Just had a go on a solo survival, it was a Titania spotlight which to me was really exciting, unfortunately my excitement fell flat as there was so few mobs spawning, I only made it to 7 minutes as there was barely anything to kill. Please can we get away from the scarcity of mob spawn problems, please.

It was the same with the lack of mobs spawns in the Sanctuary Onslaught feedback thread, many of us voiced our concerns about the lack of mob spawns on certain tilesets but it's still an issue to this day, please don't let this happen again here.

I feel many players are looking for the challenge of real survival, being overwhelmed, struggling to retain their health whilst cutting down tougher enemies, not standing there twiddling their thumbs hoping a mob will trundle on by. ☺️

I hope I didn't come across rude, I just feel I and many other care a great deal for the future of Warframe and it would be really lovely to play a new game mode feeling excited with little to no disappointment.

Thanks then

[Linisti]

1 minute ago, Klokwerkaos said:

This may not be a popular idea right away but I think it will be soon:

I would like to see ayatan stars added to the reward pool.  I know people are going to say that stars are worthless, but they really aren't and won't be very soon.

Currently for rotation A statues have an 54% chance of dropping.  Maybe make each have 16% statue chance to drop and give blue star 6%

For rotation B 40% for statues maybe swap to 18% per statue and 4% amber star.

This allows that we don't get tons of statues with NO stars, yes, we still have to go out to regular missions to farm them, but at least this way it's not near impossible to get them here (and less chance as we farm endlessly), just a small chance that barely affects current statue drop rate.  In this fashion we can actually potentially use this as a minor endo farm alternative based on RNG over the current one, but very unlikey that it will yeild the same more consistent results of arena.

Amber star prices have already jumped through the roof (2p to 5p) and it hasn't even been a day, that's a 150% market increase in 24 hours and it's bound to go up more before it stabilizes and also destablize endo markets for maxed mods as well.  While we want things to be accessible to newer players, as prices drop for objects, people spend less and less cash on plat, and people farm less and less of an object.  When plat farms dry up that causes people to get bored and stop playing the game mode that rewards it (ie the brand new game mode we just got today).

I think diversifying the field just a little would really better stabilize the market.

I'm not against the market changing at all but this is going to make anasa values fall and amber star prices skyrocket, making getting an anasa from daily sortie be less of a "well at least it's worth plat" and more of a "well this is completely worthless except as a dojo decoration".

Please no, a more viable fix would just be to have them drop already filled. I don't want to do 10 mins of survival for a 100 endo star

[Linisti]

Just now, Tyanya said:

Hi there everyone

Just had a go on a solo survival, it was a Titania spotlight which to me was really exciting, unfortunately my excitement fell flat as there was so few mobs spawning, I only made it to 7 minutes as there was barely anything to kill. Please can we get away from the scarcity of mob spawn problems, please.

It was the same with the lack of mobs spawns in the Sanctuary Onslaught feedback thread, many of us voiced our concerns about the lack of mob spawns on certain tilesets but it's still an issue to this day, please don't let this happen again here.

I feel many players are looking for the challenge of real survival, being overwhelmed, struggling to retain their health whilst cutting down tougher enemies, not standing there twiddling their thumbs hoping a mob will trundle on by. ☺️

I hope I didn't come across rude, I just feel I and many other care a great deal for the future of Warframe and it would be really lovely to play a new game mode feeling excited with little to no disappointment.

Thanks then

Same problem here, please buff the spawns.

[UltraRareSloth]

totally need individual extract on survival and excavation type mission

because after mission objective complete when abort or dead the alert mark as complete i don't get reward and can't play again

some want to play long but i don't so i think individual extract need here

or make it like normal alert count as complete when get mission reward so i can abort and play it again

 

[DrBorris]

Some quick notes...

• Survival spawns need a buff. Like, a massive one. Had to bail out at 35 min because I ran out of air, was killing everything as soon as it spawned and grabbed every tower.
• Defense needs some change as it takes waaaaay longer than the other mission types. Maybe bring down the required waves to 8.
• Adding scaling to the Vitus Essence with the rotation would be nice, even if it is just 2 at rotation C.
• Just ran the Lua Arbitration and I was disappointment that no Sentients spawned. I know it is super minor, but it would be cool if Sentients would spawn on this one tile.
• As I said earlier in this thread, please switch Defense to the traditional pod. It is just more... fun.

 

I look forward to the changes next week, this is a really good start with Arbitrations, if it keeps being supported through new items in the shop I can see this becoming a staple in a lot of players' daily Warframe routine.

[Amazerath]

53 minutes ago, mikakor said:

i'm personally okay for the no revive. it's your job to make sure you won't die. [...]

That wouldn't change. A death would still cripple the team as much as it does now. The only difference is that it wouldn't be permanent.

[Borg1611]

I agree that they need to increase the spawn rate for solo survivals and possibly excavations if they're like normal excavations in terms of spawn rates. It would suck for survivals to be a play Nekros if you want to play multiple rounds type of thing (though apparently even that's not enough according to multiple other posters). Even then they're fairly empty and boring anyway. I did a survival with a buff to mirage so I could bring out a frame I haven't used in awhile. I was one shotting everything (except ancient + drone combos which seem to have an unintended synergy as mentioned above) but even instantly wiping mobs out didn't keep my percentage up. There just aren't very many spawning when you're solo. I had to use several life support towers just to make it through the first round despite being able to so easily kill everything. This mode shines a spotlight on very old problems with different mission types or mission type + tileset combos and solo mode especially that in some cases have been complained about for years.

Solo excavations have just sucked for years. I remember complaining about the lack of power cells when solo when I first started playing. The first and sometimes second excavator are usually fine if you don't want to stick around, but power cells and even enemies randomly become very scarce in solo excavations. I haven't bothered doing an excavation arbitration past the first round, but based on how weak the spawn rate in the solo survival was + other people's comments, it seems like the same old problems they've always had are still a problem in arbitrations as well. 

There's another minor issue that I'm not sure there's a solution you'd be willing to do since excavations have remained untouched for so long, but the random buffs seem less likely to be used when an excavation is up since there are a limited number of frames with a particularly useful ability in that mode. Even with 300% power strength you'd rather pick Frost over most other frames in the game. There's Frost, Gara and maybe Vauban (though I wouldn't bother with him unless it was infested maybe) and everything else kind of sucks at excavation, even with 300% strength. You might get away with Octavia or something that can draw fire away from it or a number of frames with wide area CC, particularly if it's infested, but with high level enemies you don't have a very large margin for error if you can't shield the excavator. Also the drones grant CC immunity which makes frames without the ability to shield the excavator more likely to fail to protect the excavator. 

If the purpose of the random buffs is to change things up, maybe a better approach would be to have a list of random conditions every time it swaps. Sort of like a sortie except you'd have some positives and negatives. Have 2-3 positives and 2-3 negatives. IE: random buffs to certain stats or certain weapon classes. Increased damage and power strength can be in that list, but include other things as well. Other stats and even maybe things like infinite ammo or increased fire rate to a certain weapon class or increased drop rates of orbs or passive energy regen or whatever. Maybe in some cases you could give a corrupted style buff where you get a big buff to one stat and a negative to another (but generically rather than to a specific frame) to encourage people to build differently around that effect. 

If you really want frame specific buffs, maybe have buffs for certain frames be specific and unique to that frame to make them more viable at higher levels. IE: give soft frames an armor buff or a shield-centered frame a damage reduction buff that also applies to shields. Or, instead of one buff to one thing, give multiple smaller buffs to areas that would help them in higher level content. You could have some new buffs for certain types of frames like saying Harrow, Mag etc gain "Enhanced Shields" which could be a short description to say they gain X shields and 25% DR or faster shield recovery or whatever. Or in the case of something like Loki, maybe you could say Loki gains the effect of Savior Decoy (giving you an extra survival tool without using up a mod slot) and gains X% increased duration (though it's kind of bad with a hidden 60s ICD, so maybe buff it or don't do that). 

I also agree with what people are saying about duration and difficulty scaling. I think it'd be more fun to keep shorter duration rounds and increase the scaling speed. The rewards also aren't so amazing that we need double duration rounds anyway. The rewards are actually kind of meh in general and need some additional things thrown into the list (like Kuva or rarely rivens). That's even coming from someone who actually still needs endo. You could also have more intense shorter rounds if you'd adjust the spawn rates (for solo these need to be changed regardless). 

In defense, I did like the shorter gap between rounds, though I did it as Nezha with his halo augment so I didn't have to res the guy constantly.  This may be another mode where the number of frames you end up wanting to use becomes tiny if it's too much of a pain without being able to give the guy a huge DR buff. Maybe give the guy some decent natural health regen and/or let people order him to follow and stay so you can put him somewhere more strategic. 

TLDR: Buff spawn rates as several other people have said, this is especially an issue for solo survivals and excavations. Maybe consider expanding on the random buff concept to add more variety (IE: having more types of random positive effects to build around as well as negatives). 

Edited October 13, 2018 by Borg1611

[MobyTheDuck]

The elite alert rotations taking twice as long isnt nice. Makes it drag for too long and people wont even try to stay after the first C rotation.

With the risk of instafail due the insane damage Techs/Nullfiers and Gunners/Ballistas do, ramping the dificulty twice as much for one rotation is way too much.

Also solo survival/excavation is basically impossible because of how few enemies spawn.

[Buff00n]

Host migration is yet again an issue, with the instant death gimmick making it even more likely.  The host died five minutes into a survival run, stuck around until 25 minutes for some reason, then quit.  The ensuing host migration insta-failed the mission with rotation A and B rewards lost.  

[DarkRuler2500]

Congrats, you've now released the Elite Alerts.

But because you've removed all forms of revives (including Sentinel 'Sacrifice' mod) and so on, the current dominant imbalance regarding the enemies and the mission types alike are now coming to surface even more dominant. Because in normal missions you can always say "What was that? Nevermind, I'll just revive!". However this doesnt happen in the Arbitrations.

What exactly do I mean?

• Enemies are often dealing tremendous amounts of damage within minuscule time because of host/client issues ("Ping"). My favourite example is that the damage of Nullifier Snipers can oneshot everyone because sometimes it fires 2-3 shots within 1 seconds when ping is due. Same applies to Seekers with their latchers and Kraken.
• The enemies required for several mission types (e.g. Energy Carriers for Excavations, enemies in general for defense, ...) are scaling up with the level. Either reduce the required amounts (which i dont approve of) or increase the amounts of enemies present at the same time.
• Reintroduce the Bleedout State! Although the one-life condition should maintain I would suggest that the Bleedout State should be introduced at a reduced duration of 5 seconds. Because the enemy behaviour and mission issues themselves are additionally killing the fun since you cannot do a thing against bugged enemies. As long as the enemy A.I., the client/host issues and the general stability isn't fixed, there should be a tolerance for the "one-life-condition"

[Synpai]

System that promotes leaving on dying + Being killed during host migrations = ;l

10 minutes per reward is really just a drag, it feels like I'm sitting there for so long raining death for a half hour to get three statues, seems like solo level spawns where an organized group is just looking around. I feel like this will lead to burnout as opposed to saturation.

 

If Onslaught was random of every enemy up to mini-bosses in the game and there was a segment with a chance to auto scan enemies in onslaught, that alone would drive more people to replay if only for codex's sake.

I can't tell you how much I'd rather have 10+ amber stars as a reward rather than the straight endo like.... I have a disproportionate amount of amber stars 30:800, the benefit of this is matching the endless statues I get while also being able to be melted into endo if I need.

Kuva, Legendary Mods, Ducats would have also been welcomed, the multiple statues just feel o-o awkward 

 

[mikakor]

ok. i got hit by the "host migration" after the host died. #*!% THIS. it's just BLOODY AWFUL. 10 excavator worth of arbitration, gone. really, disgusting, to a point.... i never felt before.

[DrBorris]

Idea: Make the drones take 500% Void damage. The drones are not much of a problem, but it would be interesting (and allow for more diverse loadouts) if you could use the Operator as a 'problem solver' for the drones.

[Wynn]

The mod rewards seem great I won't know since all I've gotten today was endo or statues which turn into endo. Tonights been the most fursteaing night in Warframes in a long time, people wanting to leave at A, people dying 20 seconds in, a Nekros using red energy to troll the group.

 

[Solarsyphon]

I like the invul bots. More stuff like that plz.  I suggest an invis detector  invis is still to cheesy. Also feels a little empty we need some more chaos throw in bosses, eximus squads and orbital strikes! At minimum we need sortie modifiers to go with our frame buffs.

 

Edit: Also you loose buffs on host migration... Ruined my op rhino fun

 

Edited October 13, 2018 by Solarsyphon

[clemza]

Hello ~

 

Can you please increase the drop rates of life support for solo players in survival or add more mobs.

Could you please consider adding a new party option into the game:

- A new Solo + Mod (solo / Solo + / Invite Only / Friends Only / Online) which would let you play Solo but with the same amount of enemies and the same spawn rates than a full 4 players party.

It would be so cool and challenging.

So player who wants to play solo can with an average difficulty and players who wants more mobs and difficulty while playing solo can as well (veterants with good mods and experience for exemple).

 

-> Maybe making that the "+" option works with aything (solo / Invite Only / Friends Only / Online) so any team of X players team gets the same amount of enemies and same spawn rates than a full 4 players party.

 

Thanks,

Clem,

Edited October 13, 2018 by clemza

[killj0i]

I don't like the drop rates, interception, defense with a hostage is always.... average, and those chimera drones suck. If they were like those grineer regulators, providing buffs to already high level units would be ideal and dangerous. Providing immunity means they are just priority targets that must be dealt with by gunshot. No abilities, certain weapon types only are ideal, specific build for resistances. Not particularly awesome for shaking things up.

 

On the plus side, I play Oberon a bit, and always played like revives weren't a thing. Seeing people roll and bail, actually use pizza's, actually value the supports in the squad, and other survival aspects that tend to only show in long runs is quite nice. Challenge is good. I feel like there should be a moment of silence in the audio, or at least a cannon shot to signify you've forever lost a tenno on that run. 

Discovering a slumped pile of mag at the bottom of the stairs is a bit awkward, and I can only imagine that myself and the unfortunate tenno remaining with me today suffered a host migration because the host could no longer bear the sight of their broken mag. Speaking of, if you're going to have high level content with reduced spacing between waves and such, figure out buffs/abilities and how they interact with host migrations. No longer having iron skin, rejuvenation, splinter storm, or whatever sucks assuming that not having your ability or buff doesn't instantly kill you. In which case it really sucks. If you can't transfer the buff with the host, give a 3 second invulnerability on migration, like when you respawn. 

It's high level (ish) content. A host migration can already make rewards quite iffy. There's no reason to make it worse by having perfectly functioning frames executed because a host migration stripped them of any protection based abilities and buffs, and made them stand still. Lose the invulnerability drone aspect, do something about the horrid nature of host migrations in WF, maybe gratify the dead tenno (or mock them, either works), and find some weapon parts to diversify the drop table for C after a week or so. It's a grinding game, and that drop table be short.

 

*Turns out there is, or at least is supposed to be immunity on host migration. Had it trigger a couple times, but it is VERY inconsistent. Maybe it doesn't always apply, maybe it doesn't factor loading times correctly for clients. Extend the duration and check it actually works in hectic scenarios. 

As for the Arby drones, there's a video on youtube showing the (now patched) broken effects of power donation. Allowing enemies to be sped up to insane amounts is legitimately terrifying. And firing weapons enough that enemies other than heavy gunners/corpus techs actually have a use for an "automatic" weapon rather than the few lazy bursts a mob would usually put out was a COMPLETELY viable way to increase enemy DPS without increasing the risk of being one-shot, and requires few adjustments. 

Make an arby drone that converts damage done to mobs under the effect increase speed by 1% per 1000 damage (have the damage calculated before resistances ideally, not sure if that works with criticals or not). Overkill has a penalty down low unless you hit the drones, and the damage required up high means this difficulty would scale. 

Sooner or later though, you are just going to have to fix the damage. Damage by tenno, damage scaling by mobs, as well as base health and scaling health+armour all over. You have avoided this problem for years, and its eating your game. It destroys any hope of balance, creates obscene and unenjoyable metas, and makes soulless people who hate fun have think invincible enemies belong in this game. If we can have melee counters, ability timers and counters, even mods like berserker and adaptation have both counters and timers.... consider adding a shot combo for all weapons. For balance purposes, could have the counter reset on target change (problematic with punch through), rapid drop off over time (good for automatics+multi-shot weapons, less so for single shot and slow firing weapons) or have multiple variations based on weapon class/ammunition used (takes more than 5 minutes of effort, increases number of moving parts script-wise). Keeps things separate from the sniper counter (which is rather effective already), and allows massive single target damage in a short time without making nuke weapons. 

Making invincible enemies doesn't work. Making insane hordes of mobs would require you to improve netcode or have dedicated servers (but would be awesome). Balancing the weapons would require... something you clearly don't have (send me a build and I'll balance them all for you inside a week). Giving enemies speed and aggression is your best short term fix. Damage and armour balance is the mandatory long term fix. But invincibility and level ramps are a failure. These tactical alerts are going to fail as anything other than an endo farm, as they yield insignificant other loot, and present NO real challenge (people just leave defense out of pure boredom, survival is nothing but a lack of life support and lack of enemies, and interception can be completed with CC alone). Good luck devs, you've quite a task if you want to keep players engaged. Because the current setup wont do it. Melee 3.0 won't be enough... and if Fortuna is like PoE, it will compound these problems.

 

Edited October 20, 2018 by killj0i
Added more in-depth feedback.

[k05h]

Pros:

I enjoy the difficulty and also the modifiers. Something like 300% more damage for Karrak is really dope or 300% power strenght for Hydroid is fun. 

The Endo rewards are very good. I starred disbelieving at the screen when I got 2000 endo at rotation B. 

Get killed get out. Totally love that. 

 

Cons:

If you shower us with Ayatan statues you should also shower us with stars. Especially of the hard to get Amber Stars. 5 Amber & 5 Cyan stars should be an additinal reward.

That gamemode shows existing problems with Corpus. All of my team got one-shot at rotation C interception. Does not happen in Grineer missions.

Excavation did suffer from too few node carriers.

Get killed get out in something like interception makes the game mode almost impossible when 2 people get shot. 

Missions are a bit on the long side.

 

 

 

Edited October 13, 2018 by k05h

[Doomina]

Hey Tenno, hey DE-Staff,

well, I love the new Arbitrations with their bonus modifications the new enemies (drones) and the adrenalin bosst caused by the only life you have. But it doesn't feel that much like warframe than other high-end missions. The frustration can be huge, relative to the commitment you bring on, e.g. take an ember with the 300%-modification: She's doing really well in killing enemies, but one shot from a nullifier, that you run into and youre dead, while your skill doesnt matter at this moment.

I think, there are few possibilities, to make this new mission type feel more like warframe:

- the bleeding out state is the most cooperative feature in this game, bring it back
- therefor make enemies a bit harder, e.g. begin at level 100 (sortie begins at 60 already)

The mission should be over, when the team is not good enough anymore and not when the noob of the team dies, who could be carried at least to the next rotation.

I believe in you guys making this new mission type as great as the others 😉

Thank You.

[Dark_Chroma_Prime]

Something we can finally call endgame

[Zanoza-chan]

Currently there's no point in actually winning the elite alert cuz you keep the rotation rewards (which are the reason to do those alerts) while the other pickups worth nothing. 

Here I am, successfully extracted from defense alert after w10 cuz some teammates died, and I need to wait for 40 minutes to play something elite again. While I could purposely continue and fail at w11 to extract with my rotation rewards AND ability to try again. That feels wrong.

Also, I'm almost sure yesterday I was able to repeat the same alert within a hour. Was that a thing? Was it changed? If yes - revert this change please. We must be able either to repeat the alert no matter won we or not, or not be able to repeat it after failure just as we cannot repeat it after success.

 

UPD: okay, I've tested it more carefully, and from what I've seen alerts are marked as complete after getting the 1st rotation, no matter won you or lose after. I still not sure about my 1st day experience cuz I was too hyped and my memories about it are not quite clear (maybe I repeated the alert without getting 1st rota, or that thing was at fixed in the same evening). Anyway, for now things are looking fair enough (except for the whole arbitrations appeared to be just big endo farm with high risk, and, as I heard from some chinese guy who did some math, arena is still better cuz it gives slightly more endo with no risk).

UPD2: I read the messages from other users above and please don't add ayatan stars to rotations as they suggest q_q

Edited October 14, 2018 by Zanoza-chan

[DarkRuler2500]

I will just do that until i get my rewards and then never touch it again.
Seriously... this mode is badly thought and even worse implemented.