[PC] C̶̹̃h̴̊̍̐͜i̶͓̩͛̽m̸̨̈́͘e̴̤̒ŕ̸͉͋̕å̸̙̭͕: Update 23.10 - Arbitrations: Lethal Alerts Feedback Megathread

[Nez-Kal]

(I for one am enjoying it as it is, but to each there own I guess.)

[Spectre-8]

The vocal minority of the playerbase wanted missions that started at higher level , so the enemies are more difficult and the rewards are well better .

What DE did was create a game mode with artificial difficulty , halved reward rate and mods that should not be mods in the first place .

If you wanted so bad to promote snipers , just make it so every sniper in the game gives you 15 energy ON HEADSHOT .

If you wanted , you could just you know remove self damage from launchers . Easy enough ?

I could continue but really not going to bother , you know what you did and how you did it and what you were supposed to do .

How did you mess up such a simple request " higher level = higher rewards " , is just beyond me .

 

 

Edited October 14, 2018 by Spectre-8

[Teksorbkyva]

This is literally the first iteration of Arbitrations. There will be plenty of fixes, adjustments, and changes in the weeks to come. They didn't have the time to do them yet because they released late and it was a short week.

If I may add however, there needs to be a hell of a lot more enemies in Arbi Survival. I didn't even see an Arbi Drone after like 6 minutes in and enemies were trickling in one at a time. No groups more than 3.

[BansheePrime]

I get DE might not want bleedout for elites. But perhaps we could get at the very least do some sort of compromise where we get them back but every time you enter bleedout you get a stacking stat penalty.

Edited October 14, 2018 by BansheePrime

[xcenic]

34 minutes ago, ReshyShira said:

Variable Durations:

30 min for Rotation C is a punish, most of the people only staying for 10min and then the reward is 90% on ayatan. This 1st iteration for me have been meh. So far this elite mission will be another forgettable content.

[Hello]

Don't know if it's a bug or just poor planning with spawn rates for solo players. It's never been great, but I'll show how bad the Arbitration ones are.

I don't remember which one this was. Was around 3pm EST. I just gave up and let them kill me. I wasn't going to make it with life support anyways. As you can see, 34 minutes, 586 kills... I thought the challenge was not dying? It's actually getting enough life support and hoping one spawns fast enough before it hits 0%. 

 

Here was the one that was on 30 minutes ago. Again, low spawn rates. 314 enemies?

 

To put into perspective. I ran roughly the same amount of time on Zabala, Eris as the first example. A couple minutes longer than the Arbitration mission. 958 kills. I doubt I got an extra 400 kills in just that 2 minutes extra in a normal survival.

 

I'm all for added difficulty. Low spawn rates just doesn't seem like the way to add the extra difficulty though. 

Edited October 14, 2018 by Brandt1

[-skimmer-]

nope, no bleedouts. Its already nearly impossible to fail any mission.

The missions should start at higher level though.

 

[Zanchak]

45 minutes ago, Brandt1 said:

Don't know if it's a bug or just poor planning with spawn rates for solo players. It's never been great, but I'll show how bad the Arbitration ones are.

I don't remember which one this was. Was around 3pm EST. I just gave up and let them kill me. I wasn't going to make it with life support anyways. As you can see, 34 minutes, 586 kills... I thought the challenge was not dying? It's actually getting enough life support and hoping one spawns fast enough before it hits 0%. 

 

The frame youre using with that zaw name

*I have no useful input, this just pleased me lol

[DreisterDino]

You say it is not as challenging as you wanted it to be, still you want to be able to be revived by teammates, get your arcane revives and even the possibilty to earn extra revives?

 

I really like it that you have no revive, its one of the most important aspects of this gamemode to make it different to others.

I noticed that i really play the game a bit more carefully because every mistake could be my end. I have to be more cautious when i am playing this gamemode.

 

As soon as we are able to revive each other and get to revive ourselves, this will immediatly change back to what every other gamemode is like.

It doesnt matter anymore if you get killed, you dont have to pay as much attention to the game and the feeling of challenge will be gone.

And at that point it doesnt matter if the enemies are lvl 300 or 500 or 10000, they oneshot me, i get revived or revive myself and proceed.

[Midrib]

I just want them to fix the stupid enemy AI pathing and balance some of the modes in Solo.

With how fast Life support drains and Towers giving 75% of what they normally give combined with the low enemy spawn rate in solo, its incredibly difficult to go for a long time in Survival without using a frame like Nekros, and I don't want to be forced to play Co-op or play a specific frame if i want to progress over 20 minutes. A simple fix for this would just be increasing Enemy spawns in Solo, right now the enemy spawn rate is abysmally low.

Solo Excavation suffers the same issue with the addition of enemies getting stuck on each other and on door ways, 3 minute extractors turn into 5+ minutes because Power carriers rarely spawn and if they do, they get stuck somewhere. 

Mode is decent, its just a pain playing it solo because its so inconsistent sometimes.

[OmgItsHongxD]

Competed in a lethal alert, died at wave 6 (with most damage and kills) and the team was victorious and yet I didn't get a reward due to inactivity, are you serious?

[ReshyShira]

1 hour ago, DreisterDino said:

You say it is not as challenging as you wanted it to be, still you want to be able to be revived by teammates, get your arcane revives and even the possibilty to earn extra revives?

 

I really like it that you have no revive, its one of the most important aspects of this gamemode to make it different to others.

I noticed that i really play the game a bit more carefully because every mistake could be my end. I have to be more cautious when i am playing this gamemode.

 

As soon as we are able to revive each other and get to revive ourselves, this will immediatly change back to what every other gamemode is like.

It doesnt matter anymore if you get killed, you dont have to pay as much attention to the game and the feeling of challenge will be gone.

And at that point it doesnt matter if the enemies are lvl 300 or 500 or 10000, they oneshot me, i get revived or revive myself and proceed.

It also causes a massive issue of causing people to quit the game when they die.   Not to mention, with how easy the game mode is currently you're not likely to die except by accident because you got bored.

 

Also if you're dying that much, you're probably risking the defense objective being destroyed, running out of life support, or losing the interception.

Edited October 14, 2018 by ReshyShira

[thri11ki11]

My mirage prime is not getting the 300% buff.

Proof

3 only gives 30% dmg reduction

Edited October 14, 2018 by thri11ki11

[Nurmetya]

So I've done a few of these now and I'v come to this conclusion....

 

It was fun for awhile but now its dead to me.

 

Why do I say this?

Mostly its due to it just taking so damn long for so damn little. I can honestly say I don't care for any of the mods at all and those should be moved to the merchant guy in the relays anyway, literally its what he's there for let him sell that crap so its less clutter in the reward pool. I don't mind getting a bunch of endo chucked at me I'm okay with that, I'd like the quantity to be a tad higher but that's just me oh and kuva and/or void traces would be nice too. And then there are the statues, I wouldn't mind getting an ayatan statues either if it wasn't for one small detail this thing, its called an Amber Star you find em scattered around maps...if RNGesus is on your side. If RNGesus isn't on your side well you'll end up with a pile of incomplete statues and I'm looking at quite the pile so far after doing these Arbitrations for the better part of the day. I 'd like to either see these be given as filled or at least partially filled or to see amber stars be a lot more common then they are now in the regular star chart (as they are now I see maybe one amber star every 4 to 5 hours and that's with smashing/opening every container I come across) or to see packs of stars given as a reward for suffering through that slog.

[Klokwerkaos]

15 hours ago, EvilChaosKnight said:

You do realize that invis frames have durability of a wet paper bag right?
Because tank frame meta was not strong enough yet in this mode I suppose.

They have tons of survivability... because of invis they are potentially unlikable cheese.  That's kind of the point.  Additional drones for other types mixed in would be good to change things up.  Maybe if there was a drone that stops health Regen except from p rocs, or one that cancels invul and damage reduction... Maybe make five or six different types and have 3 random ones with a low spawn rate.

[Klokwerkaos]

25 minutes ago, Nurmetya said:

So I've done a few of these now and I'v come to this conclusion....

 

It was fun for awhile but now its dead to me.

 

Why do I say this?

Mostly its due to it just taking so damn long for so damn little. I can honestly say I don't care for any of the mods at all and those should be moved to the merchant guy in the relays anyway, literally its what he's there for let him sell that crap so its less clutter in the reward pool. I don't mind getting a bunch of endo chucked at me I'm okay with that, I'd like the quantity to be a tad higher but that's just me oh and kuva and/or void traces would be nice too. And then there are the statues, I wouldn't mind getting an ayatan statues either if it wasn't for one small detail this thing, its called an Amber Star you find em scattered around maps...if RNGesus is on your side. If RNGesus isn't on your side well you'll end up with a pile of incomplete statues and I'm looking at quite the pile so far after doing these Arbitrations for the better part of the day. I 'd like to either see these be given as filled or at least partially filled or to see amber stars be a lot more common then they are now in the regular star chart (as they are now I see maybe one amber star every 4 to 5 hours and that's with smashing/opening every container I come across) or to see packs of stars given as a reward for suffering through that slog.

Yeah more stuff here that doesn't offer game bonuses would be nice.  Maybe a special steam award for doing an hour and a special syandana for 3 hours and weekly change out of buildable cosmetics on an annual rotation.  That would make this super fun and worthwhile

[Klokwerkaos]

The longer game mods need to be shortemed, agreed.  Defense and interception take way too long to do

[Tyanya]

19 minutes ago, Klokwerkaos said:

They have tons of survivability... because of invis they are potentially unlikable cheese. 

Like parmesan? To me that's an unlikable cheese, but then I prefer milder cheeses.

I don't think it's a good idea to start introducing mechanics that render certain frames useless, it seems as though DE really wanted full inclusivity of all frames, their toolsets and all weapons, hence the 300% buff, calling for ways to nerf certain frames and their toolsets isn't the way to go. ☺️

[Lisztomaniac]

Il y a 3 heures, DreisterDino a dit :

You say it is not as challenging as you wanted it to be, still you want to be able to be revived by teammates, get your arcane revives and even the possibilty to earn extra revives?

 

I really like it that you have no revive, its one of the most important aspects of this gamemode to make it different to others.

I noticed that i really play the game a bit more carefully because every mistake could be my end. I have to be more cautious when i am playing this gamemode.

 

As soon as we are able to revive each other and get to revive ourselves, this will immediatly change back to what every other gamemode is like.

It doesnt matter anymore if you get killed, you dont have to pay as much attention to the game and the feeling of challenge will be gone.

And at that point it doesnt matter if the enemies are lvl 300 or 500 or 10000, they oneshot me, i get revived or revive myself and proceed.

the ´problem is as long as there is no bleed-out they cant go all out on the difficulty, having no bleed-out its shallow dificulty and sets a ceiling on how long people can trully last, if you remove bleedouts completely it brings up the problem that past certain levels enemies can one shot you, it wont be nice to lose 2 hours of your time because of a stray bullet, this makes it so either you go full tank so that way you dont risk dying to RNG or you cheese your way through and thats not fun.

however i do not think bleed-outs on arbitrations should work the way they do, imo they should be 5 seconds bleed-outs void kid not allowed on the revive process, you can even have a limited number of bleedouts and then permadeath, like 3 bleedouts and youre out. this makes it so that DE can tweak dificulty without the need for absurd +300% str buff that only make tanky frames even more compeling, right now its a shallow dificulty with a shallow OP buff tacked on to balance things out, if we had bleed-outs balancing the dificulty would be easier, as players would have another tool to tackle the highest levels, without having to rely on the more beefy WF. 

you people need to realize that those asking for bleed-outs are not asking for an easier mode they are asking for a choice to take their squishier warframes without risking dying to RNG.

EDIT: just an idea but it could be 3 bleed-outs 8/5/3 seconds countdown, no kids allowed on the revival proccess, but modable (giving undying will a use at last).

Edited October 14, 2018 by Lisztomaniac

[-Temp0-]

В 13.10.2018 в 02:35, GOLANX сказал:

Is going to Rotation B really so hard? i know use recruitment chat, except i got chat banned for making a family guy joke and chat suspensions lock you out of every single in game form of communication, including clan chat squad chat, whisper chat and recruiting chat, so that's not an option.

 

Nothing hard about it, just most missions suck a** because they take too long thats why people leave. It's been just a day and I already skip defense and most survivals. The only 2 modes worth doing for me are interception and salvage becaus guess what DE... one round doesnt take 10+ minutes. Maybe get a hint.

Цитата

i do take these missions seriously, and i STILL Need endo, so NO, these rewards are not an insulting joke, thanks.

Exactly what they are. Once I'm done with cosmetics, I'm out. You can get 1000 endo in about 2-3 minutes on Arena and there's no rewards whatsoever besides useless sculptures. How bout a freaking godforsaken amber stars? Why they aren't par of reward table? The fc am I supposed to do with empty statues? Do developers expect me to raid 1-30 level missiosn breaking every crate and locker after I spent hours in a lv 60-120+ missiosn?

*****

Classic DE. There goes all the possible resources we could have had like amber stars, kuva, nitain, formas, oxium and so on and on an on.

Цитата

The defense takes too long true, but if we look at something like survival for about where the time should be (~10m per rotation) and we look at the amount of endo you get.  It is objectively more generous compared to other modes of farming endo.

Yall who been living under a rock, get acquainted with Sedna's Arena where 500-1000 endo for 3 minutes is a norm.

Edited October 14, 2018 by -Temp0-

[Guest]

The random buffs aren't properly applying to variants of gear.  Prime frames frequently don't receive the +300% bonus strength.  I haven't noticed if the prime weapons are properly getting the buffs, because I've only rolled terrible weapons that I threw away long ago, or terrible weapons that I still have for some reason, and yet weren't salvageable with both a riven and the buff.  It would be nice if these buffs were sorted out to apply to entire weapon and warframe families, and to perhaps favor the items you actually own.  There's no reason whatsoever why the buffs should specify a mk-1 braton and not the entire braton family.  No one keeps gear like that, and attempting to encourage players to buy 500 weapon slots just so they can have a 6-forma build for every trash item that's been power-creeped into obscurity is just inconsiderate.  The buffs are the only interesting part of the entire elite alert gameplay experience, and not only do they not work 90% of the time, but when they do actually manage to function, they're made superfluous by the awful drone mechanics.

The drones don't really provide a challenge so much as an annoyance.  They slow down the gameplay excessively by being immune to all warframe abilities themselves (including exalted weapons ffs!).  They can be buffed by eximus and ancient units (making them damn near unkillable).  And they're tiny, making certain weapons much better suited to killing them than others.  They also frequently get stuck in spawn closets, forcing you to chase them down at the end of EVERY. SINGLE. ROUND.  Since drones can be protected from damage by nullifier bubbles, while the nullifier is protected from everything by the drone, enemies can indiscriminately kill you with almost no possible recourse on your part.

I never thought Defense could be so much slower than both interception AND survival.  It is painfully slow.  Ridiculously, boringly, painfully slow.  This is in part due to the drones, and in part due to the terrible spawning and pathing.  Spending 40 minutes just to finish rotation B is not alright.  People have better things to do with their time.

It was originally advertised as players having a single LIFE.  Not lacking even so much as a bleedout state.  Dying instantly to a stray bullet or freak occurrence such as a host migration is terrible and should not be something that completely ruins your run.  Most of my deaths have been one-shot kills while I was under the effects of ancient healer auras and other durability buffs.  They weren't even very high level enemies.  I don't even die like that on Mot, where enemies deal 3x damage.  Surviving Arby's alerts amounts to being permanently invincible or else get one-shot killed by something that's typically a load of crap.

Making enemies arbitrarily immune to damage and all warframe abilities isn't fun gameplay, and it's certainly not creatively designed difficulty.  Kril is a terriblly designed enemy.  The nox is a very well designed enemy.  The high-level encounters for end-game players should be more like the Nox, and less like Kril.  Allow the drones to provide significant damage resistance for enemies, but not damage and ability immunity. 

 

Making literally everything on the map immune to your entire loadout until you kill a single floating pomeranian that's hidden under a crate in the next room over is absurd.

 

Edit:  The speed of gameplay may be due to a game-wide spawning and pathing bug that's slowing gameplay down significantly. If that gets patched this week, then I'll re-evaluate.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Guest

[Klokwerkaos]

46 minutes ago, Tyanya said:

Like parmesan? To me that's an unlikable cheese, but then I prefer milder cheeses.

I don't think it's a good idea to start introducing mechanics that render certain frames useless, it seems as though DE really wanted full inclusivity of all frames, their toolsets and all weapons, hence the 300% buff, calling for ways to nerf certain frames and their toolsets isn't the way to go. ☺️

No frame is useless if you know how to fps because the enemy ai is dumb.  Ultimately to avoid the drones that reduce a particular frames effectiveness is jist as simple as moving away from it.

When I was doing am arbitration last night dude was running away because he couldn't hack a particular scenario (2 drones, huge mob) so I went in and cleaned up.  Was it my lout out?  I doubt it, we had the same frames and both were Mr 25.  The way I handled it was as simple as aim, shoot.  Seems like this strategy could work in most scenarios...

To someone that can't aim and shoot while wall running , rolling and aim gliding by Mr 25 my response is no sympathy, this is an endgame mode, git gud scrub.  If not now then when?  

Game should have increased challenges at endgame to compensate for god like ability and gear and that doesn't mean simply adding more sponge, it means new mechanics, new enemy types and new ways of interacting to male it more challenging so that we can justify having the load outs we do.

Endgame modes is not where we go to cry about stuff being too challenging.  Quite the opposite.  It needs to be absurdly challenging.  What we have now is still casual af if your load out is built right.

Edited October 14, 2018 by Klokwerkaos

[kingvaldemir]

The game mode is ok. Its the endgame that we need. High level and very risky game mode (game over when you are dead).

The Rewards are... okay-ish, though i hope DE put some kuva into the reward table. Endos are nice but there is a limit to that. Once player maxed out all the necessary mods, why would one need Endo? It's not... 'evergreen' resources. Kuva on the other hand is way more viable for endgame reward due to the randomness nature of rivens. We always need more kuva to find that one perfect roll for our weapons. Bored with 1 weapon? Find another weapon and look for the perfect riven for it.  Another note, puttng radiant relics could also be nice
But, the major problem is....

On 2018-10-13 at 9:40 AM, Linisti said:

These new alerts still have the same problems that normal game modes have: Spawns.

basically, this. Need more spawn. Even with full 4 man squad, the mob seems little. For some reason i feel like bounties on PoE have more spawn on vault defense or hold the area stage.

This problem is most apparent in defense mission. Very few enemy that scatters around and some dont even move from their spawn point. << this really need to be fixed.

Speaking of defense mission, its waaaaaaay too long. 30 minutes in and im still at B rotation (20 waves). I could've reach rotation C at 30 minutes mark on survival. My suggestion is to cut the rotation from 10 waves to 7~8 waves.

Excavation has the same problem with the normal one. Some excavator are too far from another, resulting we have to travel far just to get the battery, leaving the excavator vulnerable. Another problem is... well, SPAWN.

The modes that i somewhat found enjoyable are survival and interception, albeit both modes still need more spawn.

To sum it up:

• Need more spawn!!
• There's a bug in defense mode that the enemy(s) didnt move from their spawn point
• Defense took too long
• Excavation need more spawn and the excavator need to spawn close to one another
• On reward: Put kuva on the reward table because it's more viable for endgame reward. Radiant relics could also be nice
• Survival and interception are okay. havent try infested salvage

That'd be all and thanks

Edited October 14, 2018 by kingvaldemir

[Sahansral]

Defense:

With some combinations of maps and enemy faction 10 waves just take too damn long and are just tedious. Enemey AI tends to get stuck. The fast pacing is replaced by trying to find enemies that got stuck somewhere in the environment. It's soo slooow, soo boring.

Survival:

The restrictions on air supply combined with the spawn rate make it very stressfull... and not in a enjoyable way (at least for me). Too much luck involved...

Faction balance:

Too much synergy between nullifiers and arbitration drones. Corpus feels much, much harder than infestation with grineer somewhere in between.

Arbitrations drones:

They just favour high-range melee ... again. A weapon category that is already the easiest to use...

 

Edited October 14, 2018 by Sahansral

[CaptainJLP]

Add the leave squad button! Really as simple as it may seem, it is going to be the best feature that was ever invented, because I do not want to pray to my teammates to get out of a survival mission or excavation and so on, and waste what could have been a very long endless opportunity for them, Just add it, It will solve the problems of people wanting to go on and people needing to leave. It is essential, to this game and endless missions in particular. 🙏

In all honesty you can keep the one hour cool down between alerts, but adding a button that allows someone that doesn't want to go on for an eternity (if their teammates choose to do so) to leave the squad, so he isn't making the others wait that long time that could have been them farming away in their arbitration.

Edited October 14, 2018 by CaptainJLP