[PC] C̶̹̃h̴̊̍̐͜i̶͓̩͛̽m̸̨̈́͘e̴̤̒ŕ̸͉͋̕å̸̙̭͕: Update 23.10 - Arbitrations: Lethal Alerts Feedback Megathread

[Styliaan]

After i went through a fair few runs i was wishing that we get 5 waves back but only if we boost difficulty much higher as a trade off.
Sitting in a survival or defence for 10 minute/wave increments is just boring as hell, the only challenge so far is wanting to actually go on further for a slow lacklustre 10 minutes more. Id rather have some sort of option to face all 10 waves at once in defence, or for survival have an option face 4+ times the amount of enemies for 5 minutes for the early waves just to speed things up. Same amount of time as usual but more enemies. Not the same amount of enemies but over a longer time.

AI pathing is a joke, constantly having to check every corner of the map to find whichever 3-4 drones or enemies have decided to stop moving each wave.

 

If you make it harder instead of longer i would like to see revives back, but as mentioned no operator/instant revives. But at its current low level of difficulty no revives is fine.
Maybe even add some control panel all 4 players can trigger to release some new optional enemy that makes things harder but drops a revive for each player.

 

It seems they've taken the worst parts of old key/void endless which was the waiting until it got to a fun stage and just made a game mode around that while also added less reward drops.
Id even rather 5 waves/min rewards but you have to choose how long you are planning to stay and cant leave before that(with some minimum waves/time before leaving).

 

 

 

 

[walter100]

What you said about the sculptures, it would be nice if they were already complete, now the sculptures are the worst prize of the elite, after all 400 endo is very little

Yes the complete sculptures cost more than the reward in pure endo, but you have to use the stars

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

No bleedouts/1life is the way to do it, the whole point of the mode is to be difficult, that change makes its imperative that you literally work as a team to survive VS lone wolfing it and rushing through a tileset. 

[Soujourner7]

WHY DO ARBITRATIONS NOT GIVE LARGE KUVA REWARDS...... YOU KNOW THAT THING THAT VETERANS SPEND 90% OF THEIR TIME FARMING FOR >_>

also maybe let us spend vitus on tennogen items so those of use that don't do internet banking can get tennogen stuff

[Amhiel]

Hello DE! I've been trying the arbitrations a bit and so far I'm liking them quite a lot! 

I would like to add some points in which I think they can be improved. 

Enemy scaling seems a bit low, maybe it's because of the double time rotations but it becomes more of an endurance test than a challenge. Even one hour in they aren't really strong. I think most people would like a steeper climb. 

The arbiter drones are an interesting mechanic, and something you have to keep in mind at all times, which I like, but I think they'd work better if their power was line of sight. As some have said chasing drones behind walls and doors is not that fun. They are already hard to spot as is and that situation tends to break the pace.

Thank you for reading! 

 

 

 

[Amhiel]

hace 44 minutos, CaptainJLP dijo:

Add the leave squad button! Really as simple as it may seem, it is going to be the best feature that was ever invented, because I do not want to pray to my teammates to get out of a survival mission or excavation and so on, and waste what could have been a very long endless opportunity for them, Just add it, It will solve the problems of people wanting to go on and people needing to leave. It is essential, to this game and endless missions in particular. 🙏

In all honesty you can keep the one hour cool down between alerts, but adding a button that allows someone that doesn't want to go on for an eternity (if their teammates choose to do so) to leave the squad, so he isn't making the others wait that long time that could have been them farming away in their arbitration.

I don't understand your point very well, in this particular game mode if you die and leave squad you keep the rotation rewards, so if you want to leave you can just let yourself die, can't you? 

[ReshyShira]

30 minutes ago, (XB1)Cram Duachim said:

No bleedouts/1life is the way to do it, the whole point of the mode is to be difficult, that change makes its imperative that you literally work as a team to survive VS lone wolfing it and rushing through a tileset. 

Except that it doesn't accomplish it's goal at all.  It doesn't make the game harder, just more punishing.  More than anything you'll die from boredom because the game mode is so long, dull, and samey that you forgot your iron skin wore off.

[Amhiel]

hace 2 horas, kingvaldemir dijo:

The Rewards are... okay-ish, though i hope DE put some kuva into the reward table. Endos are nice but there is a limit to that. Once player maxed out all the necessary mods, why would one need Endo? It's not... 'evergreen' resources. Kuva on the other hand is way more viable for endgame reward due to the randomness nature of rivens. We always need more kuva to find that one perfect roll for our weapons. Bored with 1 weapon? Find another weapon and look for the perfect riven for it.  Another note, puttng radiant relics could also be nice

A possible solution could be adding Kuva Survival to the mission list with bonus kuva earned per filter, like x2. As it would be on rotation, not always available, it would be a good incentive to really go as far as you can whenever it pops up. 

[SSI_Seraph]

The enemy spawn rate in some of the survival tiles when solo is extremely bad. It's either that or the pathing changes.

Arbiters drones+ancient healers is an extremely annoying combo. The drones shouldn't be affected by the DR with how much power they provide.

Edited October 14, 2018 by SSI_Seraph

[Hecking_Birb]

Just a simple main request, don't let the arbitrations choose a weapon from the ENTIRE selection of weapons for buffing. When you do, a majority of weapons that it throws at the player are not in the player's possession, and wouldn't be worth getting. I literally got the MK1-Braton as a buffed weapon, and however great of a meme that would be, I don't want to get an MK1-Braton and potato it just for a single arb. If I had to approximate a percentage of the time that I actually had the weapon it's buffing, it would be 10%-ish. I have all the weapons I want and don't feel I need the rest.

Now, mind you, I don't feel like the same applying to warframes is as important, since having every warframe in the game is actually a good and not unreasonable idea. However, I still feel it would not be a bad idea to apply the same to warframes. There could be some argument made that it encourages players to get all the warframes when it buffs warframes you don't have, which is good for the sake of making more players actually get the full roster and not just a small sample of them; if you want to make that argument, go ahead. I just feel the same isn't really valid for weapons.

TL;DR: Weapons that can be picked for buffing should be limited to only what the player has, but warframes could still be ones the player doesn't own; that's not too bad.

As a secondary complaint, I do feel the universal power strength buff is sorta bland, and that buff should also be randomized. My suggestion is that, instead, it's sometimes duration, sometimes armor, sometimes energy max, just to spice things up. Especially since not every warframe can actually substantially benefit from strength, like Nyx, Titania, Vauban, arguably Harrow, arguably Gara, and some others. Getting Ember with +range would be cool, or Harrow with +energy max, or Excalibur with +efficiency. Similar argument can't be made for weapons, since +damage is ALWAYS good.

TL;DR: Randomize specifically warframe buffs too, not just the warframe itself. Don't bother doing that with weapons, +damage is fine.

[DreisterDino]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb ReshyShira:

Not to mention, with how easy the game mode is currently you're not likely to die except by accident because you got bored.

 

vor 25 Minuten schrieb ReshyShira:

More than anything you'll die from boredom because the game mode is so long, dull, and samey that you forgot your iron skin wore off.

 

So you already take Rhino to this Mission although the lvl is too low in your opinion?

That might be boring indeed, i stopped using Rhino a long time ago 😉

I just take any frame thats gets the random buff and see how it performs and have fun with it.

 

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Lisztomaniac:

if you remove bleedouts completely it brings up the problem that past certain levels enemies can one shot you, it wont be nice to lose 2 hours of your time because of a stray bullet, this makes it so either you go full tank so that way you dont risk dying to RNG or you cheese your way through and thats not fun.

 

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Lisztomaniac:

you people need to realize that those asking for bleed-outs are not asking for an easier mode they are asking for a choice to take their squishier warframes without risking dying to RNG.

You can just take your squishy frame to the mission right now without risking "to die to RNG".

I dont see the benefit for the gameplay if we instantly raise the lvl to a point where every frame is dead the moment its get spotted but give revives back.

Right now we are in a spot where you can die already early in the game if you dont pay attention and dont run Rhino/Inaros/Invisible frame ( i saw that happen a lot), but you can survive with each frame if you are really trying. You guys honestly think that if we bump the lvl up that much that pretty much every frame gets oneshotted instantly but we have revives that there wont be a META of frames everyone uses to avoid getting oneshotted? That would lead to the Rhino/Inaros/Invisble frame only scenario just as much.

 

And btw, since you dont lose the rotation-rewards when dying, i dont think its a big problem for most people if they die after 2 hours. As if they care for the collected Alloyplate and Rubedo . 😀 They get to keep the only rewards that might be interesing to them anyway, if you want to farm ressources you go somewhere else.

 

Little story at the end: I tried out the +300 Equinox in a Defense yesterday, and i got oneshotted by a Nullifier at Wave 14 or something.

Why? Because i am still in the the normal "nothing can kill me in this game, and if for some reason it happens i can just revive myself" mode.

I was recasting my 4 maybe 25 meters away of the Nullifier in Line of Sight, and while i was standing there raising my arms i saw the bullet coming, hitting me right in the face xD

Am i mad? no. I learned my lesson and will try to do better next time. The rules of this gamemode are simple: You make a mistake - you are out. And thats fine for me.

[S3tt]

the problem is i cant do them solo tryed all but imposible couse the mobs dont spawn or they  idle in the spawn  and do nothing in surv the life support is no god life suport dose not drop from the mobs and the rot are to much u whant us to grow old doing a borring mission ?

[CaptainJLP]

1 hour ago, Amhiel said:

I don't understand your point very well, in this particular game mode if you die and leave squad you keep the rotation rewards, so if you want to leave you can just let yourself die, can't you? 

In other missions that never made sense, must have missed that part in the forum thread, and anyways, if so why have an abort button (it is misleading, and shouldn't be there, otherwise seriously remove it or replace it with  end mission or something)? Anyways having a button like this for normal missions would actually be nice, in my opinion. I'm pretty sure in one of their dev-streams many moons ago someone in chat asked that question, something like "Since we have a leave squad button in PoE, can we see this being in normal endless missions in future?".

Anyways thanks for letting me know, It's just last time I checked, all missions fail when you lose all revives on solo, so didn't know if this was still the case for these ones.

Mission Failure has the same results as aborting.

[ShakeyMac]

I got a survival as Nekros.  "Cool" I think, what a nice combination.  I zone in, wait for everyone else to load, trigger the alarm and it's off to the races.

Until one of the other guys triggered a trap that triggered a sentry turret who gunned me down before I had a chance to kill a single guy and bring up my defenses.  There hadn't even been a spawn yet.  I couldn't have killed anything if I tried.  So I'm just going to bring Nezha, or Gara, or Rhino, or some other frame who can put up survivability right from the get go, without having to expose themselves to danger.

Which brings me to another point; the bonuses, especially for frames, don't seem to always make a lot of sense.  What does "strength" mean exactly?  Is it just 300% power strength?  That's not too useful for a Nekros.  I won't be Soul Punching anything to death with any frequency.  If the idea is to incentivize a certain frame, then there needs to be actual incentive to use that frame.  I can provide a lot more to my team as a Safeguard Nezha or Gara than I can as a Nekros, even in a survival.  Better to have 4 people for as long as possible than to risk a quick death from some bullS#&$ hitscanning trap before mobs even have a chance to spawn.

[Wyrmius_Prime]

The survival alerts once again show how terrible the spawns in survival missions in general was. I did 10 minutes of solo on the Gas city tileset yesterday. I had a maximum of 5 enemies at once attacking me, usually way less than that. I think I had 3 drone spawns in total during that period of time? It is so goddamn bad.

I like the interception missions, and I have yet to try the other ones. Defense is too slow to be even worth it at the current pace of one reward for every 10 waves.

[000l000]

Terrible design. You can't even go melee because of this things and auto targeting, flying drone are a real pain for most melee users and it has never been solved. Switching to a gun each time you need to destroy one is just plain boring. Plus they're flying like they're drunk or something, it can be a real pain to shoot at with some weapons, especially with dozens of enemies in front of them.

Something is really wrong with this new mechanics and one shouldn't mess with invulnerable stuff.

[Wyrmius_Prime]

45 minutes ago, ShakeyMac said:

I got a survival as Nekros.  "Cool" I think, what a nice combination.  I zone in, wait for everyone else to load, trigger the alarm and it's off to the races.

Until one of the other guys triggered a trap that triggered a sentry turret who gunned me down before I had a chance to kill a single guy and bring up my defenses.  There hadn't even been a spawn yet.  I couldn't have killed anything if I tried.  So I'm just going to bring Nezha, or Gara, or Rhino, or some other frame who can put up survivability right from the get go, without having to expose themselves to danger.

Which brings me to another point; the bonuses, especially for frames, don't seem to always make a lot of sense.  What does "strength" mean exactly?  Is it just 300% power strength?  That's not too useful for a Nekros.  I won't be Soul Punching anything to death with any frequency.  If the idea is to incentivize a certain frame, then there needs to be actual incentive to use that frame.  I can provide a lot more to my team as a Safeguard Nezha or Gara than I can as a Nekros, even in a survival.  Better to have 4 people for as long as possible than to risk a quick death from some bullS#&$ hitscanning trap before mobs even have a chance to spawn.

It is 300% damage. Just damage, not power strength. For example, if you are playing on Mirage, your Prism will deal triple damage but the damage buff of Eclipse doesn't get any benefits.

DO NOT pick your frame according to the buff you get, pick a frame that you are actually good on and on which you dont die before the first reward. You are dead weight for the team, especially if you die to a sentry turret out all of the possible things.

[ShakeyMac]

1 minute ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

It is 300% damage. Just damage, not power strength. For example, if you are playing on Mirage, your Prism will deal triple damage but the damage buff of Eclipse doesn't get any benefits.

DO NOT pick your frame according to the buff you get, pick a frame that you are actually good on and on which you dont die before the first reward. You are dead weight for the team, especially if you die to a sentry turret out all of the possible things.

Yeah, that's the feeling I got.  Good to know it's basically useless except on a few frames.  I just bring Nezha from now on; Safeguard has saved a lot of lives ever since his 3 got buffed.

[CaptainJLP]

2 hours ago, Amhiel said:

I don't understand your point very well, in this particular game mode if you die and leave squad you keep the rotation rewards, so if you want to leave you can just let yourself die, can't you? 

Psst, Hey!

Okay quotes and jokes aside, the idea of leave squad button goes on, You don't get to keep rewards like cryotic and other goods such as mods, orokin cells, argon, you get the point. It's clearly stated here, after re-reading the update thread.

On 2018-10-13 at 12:56 AM, [DE]Megan said:

Any A/B/C interval reward you receive is kept after you die or fail the mission (anything picked up off the ground is lost though)! 

So, really it does make sense now, I hope. I'm sure I and plenty of others do like the bonus loot from all of these missions, but just don't want to write what is already stated above, in my other replies such as ruin what the other players may have had planned for that mission, like completing 20 excavators or an hour survival or something. But as right now, because there is no such thing as the leave squad button, the makeshift solution is to leave and lose some rewards by committing suicide and than leaving, which in turn is not intended. If I had to guess, it's only there if you really don't want to see your teammates stay in the mission for another 90 years after dying, and that seems fine, that's what its intended use is.

Edited October 14, 2018 by CaptainJLP

[Fallen_Echo]

5 hours ago, TheDefenestrater said:

Making literally everything on the map immune to your entire loadout until you kill a single floating pomeranian that's hidden under a crate in the next room over is absurd.

The truth has been spoken.

[Fallen_Echo]

They need to make them bigger or switch them to somekind of ground unit because currently nothing stops them from getting stuck in the ceiling or even going throught the wall.

[WhimsicalPacifist]

Have someway to pick the stat that gets 300%?  Titania actually does benefit from 300% power strength especially with Razorwing  Blitz.  She could be considered two flying pistols with infinite ammo.  The problem with her is that she can't use Dex Pixia against the drones and has to hop out of Blitz and becomes an easy target for mobs while on foot.  The drone's buffing of mobs to be CC immune is a huge obstacle towards squishy frame's viability in this mode.

Perhaps the most popular frames get some negative percentiles as well?  Ie Rhino gets -50% duration/efficiency.

[ArcKnight9202]

They could add to the difficulty in other ways. For example, every wave of Defense, the enemies deal slightly more damage to the target. Keeping him alive would be harder and harder. For Defection, the Kavor could either move slower in later waves(not a great idea), or heal much slower from the towers and other sources. Excavators could be powered off of Warframe shields like the Hijack thing so people are forced to stand their ground and defend it and keep it running. Survival could get foggier the lower the life support dips. Hiding enemies and obstacles.

So many missed opportunities in this.

[Gibsy091]

In my opinion players should be able to revive other players, or scale down enemies that can one shot you, or think of a way to keep your rewards up until the moment of death. I realize this is a new game mode and it's sure to get fixed anyway. I dont want to feel like I'm forced to take Inaros or other tanky frames just to survive a stray bullet here or there.

[Yagamilight123]

hace 12 horas, ReshyShira dijo:

Here's my idea to overhaul arbitrations, as in their current form they come off as rather boring, repetitive, and not as challenging as players were led to believe.  It doesn't give what Veterans really want (access to really high level enemies to fight) but rather goes in the opposite direction of making extremely long, boring games that are everything people hated about endless modes but even more so.

Arbitration Difficulty Levels:
Arbitration enemies are currently sortie-level only, which isn't anything we haven't already done before, just the missions take far longer and the rewards can be far less.  So here's my idea:  Make Arbitration tiers that scale rewards and drop rates in conjunction with their level tier:  Level 100-200, Level 200-300, Level 300-400, Level 400-500.  This allows players who really want a challenge to jump straight into the deep end without needing to spend hours letting enemies slowly level up.  Furthermore, rewards from the tier should increase respectively, for example at Tier 1 (level 100-200) you might get 1 Vitus Essence per rotation, but at tier 2 (level 200-300) you might get two Vitus essence per rotation, as well as having increased odds of getting rare stuff off the drop tables.  Arbitration levels can scale theoretically endlessly, like regular missions, and scale their rewards appropriately, though players cannot start at a tier higher then 4.

Variable Durations:
Arbitrations currently take wa too long to complete and scale very slowly in difficulty.  This  will retain the current ABC rotation cycle, but take half the time to get to that level (5 waves, 5 minutes, etc. per rotation).  After the A rotation, enemies should have scaled +33 levels since the match started, on B they should a level of +67 from their base, and by the end of rotation C they should enter the next tier at +100 levels.  Once you have gone through a lower level rotation, the game will load the next higher-level rotation, improving the drop tables accordingly as well as starting the level up cycle all over again.  This means that enemies will very quickly gain levels over the course of match, rather than a very gradual increase in levels.  So, over the course of an hour long survival (ABC-ABC-ABC-ABC) enemies will have gone from level 100 to level 500 in that time.

Return Bleed-outs:
Currently in Arbitrations, you die instantly without any revives in Arbitration, this is fine and all but it causes several issues in that you can just straight up die because you didn't immediately refresh your shield buff when it ran out.   I'd recommend reintroducing the Bleed-Out times to allow some level of forgiveness in the game mode, but in conjunction with the very large increase to enemy level scaling.  Furthermore, with the bleed out timers being your primary means to be revived it gives a mod such as Undying Will a niche when it is otherwise not very useful.

Arcane Revives:  
Similar to returning bleed outs, I believe Arcane Revives ought to be included as your secondary means of reviving.  Arcane revives right now are in a place where they rarely ever matter since you get 4 revives at the start of each mission, if you make your base revives start at 0, and then be increased by your arcanes up to a maximum of 2 revives this I think would make really testing your end-game equipment matter more as Arcanes matter more.

Earning Revives:  
After each rotation, any players who are currently dead are given the option to lose that rotations rewards and respawn, or to keep the rewards and drop from the game (So if they die in the middle of Rotation B, they keep their Rotation A reward if they respawn, but not the B reward).   At the end of each Tier everyone gets a free revive, and if players have dropped the game temporarily opens up so that people looking for the newly achieved tier can join this game that's been in progress for a while.  DE should also prevent the Anti-AFK from activating for dead players who are still actively watching the game/chatting.  

Better Reward Tables/More uses for Vitus Essence:
Right now the drop tables for Arbitrations are the kind of things you don't need:  Endo.  While Endo is a nice if you have mods needing it, by the time players can access it they likely don't need that much Endo anymore.  However, the sculptures are slightly better as a drop, as they are a form of Endo you can trade, so I'd recommend dropping all of the raw Endo drops in favor of the sculptures.  But, besides for Endo rewards there should be a decent amount of other types of reward between the current Niche mods.  
Some examples that come to mind are:  Any Vaulted Relic, Kuva, fully-built Forma, a rare chance at Orokin Reactor or Catalyst Blueprints, a rare chance at a fully-built Exilus Adapter, Rare chance at Arcanes, Ducats, or more elaborate things like a chance at a mod from an Arbitration Mod Set or special Arbitration Weapons (like how ESO has the Lato and Braton Vandal).  Failing that, rewards could simply be solely given in Vitus Essence and instead revamping what can be done with Vitus Essence.
Right now Vitus Essence has a very limited pool of things that it can purchase.  If the reward table itself isn't meant to be enticing, then what you can exchange Vitus Essence for should be.  
Some examples of what Vitus Essence could be used to exchange for things beyond what I mentioned in the drop table suggestions (Such as Vitus Essence to Kuva or special Arbitration mods/weapons), to things such as being able to buy random riven mods, Arbitration Armor set for your Warframe, Arbitration Cosmetic set for your Operator, Pet/Sentinel Cosmetics, Arbitration Sydana, 3 day Boosters, or something more unique, such as a special Umbral Forma that creates the Umbra mod polarities?

 

Specialized Arbitration Arenas:
Right now Arbitrations does what ESO does, it just reuses old maps to try and make something new-feeling and falling flat because it's just the same thing as always.  Replacing the recycled maps we've all seen before with something entirely new (or using older deprecated maps with a new furnishing) would be an interesting change of pace and may make room for more experimentation.

So you basically ask for almost infinite revives .... yeah ... you seems to not understand the gamemode idea .... The gamemode is for people that are over the "i forget to refresh shields" . As it is now , is pretty easy and dont offer to much of a challenge to do ir even more easy (enemy scaling do nothing to the difficult , more bulletspongin is not equal to difficulty ....) .