The New Sword Crafting Cost

[deadbill]

8 hours ago, rapt0rman said:

Paracesis isn't a requirement to complete the quest, it's one of many rewards, and most of the others get handed out pretty much for free. The blueprint will still be there when they're ready for it.

That's not my point. My point is, instead of giving player something to grind WHEN A STORY IS REACHING ITS CLIMAX, they should give a story progression instead.

[FlusteredFerret]

13 hours ago, deadbill said:

Just think about some players (not veteran or what-so-ever) who enjoy main story quest and then when the story is reaching its climax, BAM a grind wall, right on their face. I wouldn't call that a nice experience, logically speaking (with some common sense on top of it).

I've only been playing for 15 months...not exactly a veteran.

I completed The Chimera Prologue around the end of November and only started "grinding" for ducats after getting the Paracesis blueprint. Started with zero and reached the 1,000 mark before the end of last month. The only thing stopping me actually building it is that I have to reach MR10 first (about 17k short of that atm).

And I'm what you'd probably call a "casual" player - I like to play for a couple of hours most weekday evenings. I am most definitely not a speed grinder or someone who goes for marathon sessions, otherwise I could have had them sooner.

There are much worse things to grind for in this game. For example, I've had a much harder time getting the parts for Revenant and Garuda.

 

Edited February 3, 2019 by FlusteredFerret

[deadbill]

20 minutes ago, FlusteredFerret said:

I've only been playing for 15 months...not exactly a veteran.

I completed The Chimera Prologue around the end of November and only started "grinding" for ducats after getting the Paracesis blueprint. Started with zero and reached the 1,000 mark before the end of last month. The only thing stopping me actually building it is that I have to reach MR10 first (about 17k short of that atm).

And I'm what you'd probably call a "casual" player - I like to play for a couple of hours most weekday evenings. I am most definitely not a speed grinder or someone who goes for marathon sessions, otherwise I could have had them sooner.

There are much worse things to grind for in this game. For example, I've had a much harder time getting the parts for Revenant and Garuda.

 

do people even read nowadays? please read my previous comment

[rapt0rman]

6 hours ago, deadbill said:

That's not my point. My point is, instead of giving player something to grind WHEN A STORY IS REACHING ITS CLIMAX, they should give a story progression instead.

The story didn't reach its climax with the Chimera Prologue, it was a glorified cutscene (and y'know... a prologue), and they didn't withhold the rest of the story to give you the Paracesis instead. The rest of the story still needs to be made.... and the blueprint will still be there when they're ready.

Edited February 3, 2019 by rapt0rman

[Thelk641]

Il y a 18 heures, rapt0rman a dit :

Paracesis isn't a requirement

We don't know if it will be a requirement for the next quest or not.

[rapt0rman]

Just now, Thelk641 said:

We don't know if it will be a requirement for the next quest or not.

I was talking about what is currently available to us. Even if it does end up being a requirement, they'll still have at least another year to craft it before The New War comes out.

[Sagittarix]

I think that DE goes into the right direction if they consider Paracesis to be an "endgame" weapon:

1. Expensive to build.
2. Needs 5 formas to be maxed out.
3. Has (in this case semi-)useful passive.

I am at MR 26 with roughly 1600h playtime (Steam), so everything new that comes out can be crafted by me without breaking a sweat.
Paracesis was a small breath of fresh air and it's quite fun to smash into grineer faces.

[FlusteredFerret]

5 hours ago, deadbill said:

do people even read nowadays? please read my previous comment

I can read perfectly well thank you...and I wasn't responding to your previous comment. Maybe you should learn to read too.

And as to your "previous comment" you are simply assuming DE's intentions, when nobody knows how this particular story is going to play out.

[Thelk641]

il y a une heure, rapt0rman a dit :

I was talking about what is currently available to us. Even if it does end up being a requirement, they'll still have at least another year to craft it before The New War comes out.

Which only impacts player who won't do the Prologue before the next quest is released and doesn't answer the question of : "should progress in the main quest line cost 1000 ducats ?" nor does it answer any questions on the design philosophy that is showed by the choice of making a main quest reward a cost.

[rapt0rman]

17 minutes ago, Thelk641 said:

Which only impacts player who won't do the Prologue before the next quest is released and doesn't answer the question of : "should progress in the main quest line cost 1000 ducats ?" nor does it answer any questions on the design philosophy that is showed by the choice of making a main quest reward a cost.

The crafting cost by itself is absolutely fine, and the rest is only an issue if it's actually a requirement for progressing which is yet to be determined (and even then I'm still okay with it).

Edited February 3, 2019 by rapt0rman

[Thelk641]

Il y a 1 heure, rapt0rman a dit :

The crafting cost by itself is absolutely fine

I disagree and have explained for more than 10 pages why putting a price that high on a quest reward is absurd and goes against the general design of previous quests, in particular main quests.

Il y a 1 heure, rapt0rman a dit :

(and even then I'm still okay with it).

Same.

 

What do we want the game to be in the future ? Do we want, maybe not the next quest but somewhere down the line a "pay 200 plat to unlock the next quest" ? Or a "MR 25 or above" ? I mean if it's entirely justifiable to make you work for the rewards you've already gotten and to make you work to unlock the main quest, why stop at this ? Why not go further ?

[Dishonored]

owwhh, i never used Paracelsus sword thing again after i maxed it up in 3 days 
it a cool sword but there are better weapon

[rapt0rman]

@Thelk641 Progression requiring platinum would be strictly speaking P2W which would be an entirely different can of worms, and a MR25 requirement would indeed be insane. But all I'm getting out of this is a slippery slope based off a single point of data. Excalibur Umbra costing peanuts and having a 10 second build time also went against the general design of previous quests.

[deadbill]

14 hours ago, FlusteredFerret said:

I can read perfectly well thank you...and I wasn't responding to your previous comment. Maybe you should learn to read too.

And as to your "previous comment" you are simply assuming DE's intentions, when nobody knows how this particular story is going to play out.

Then why bother quoting my comment?
https://i.imgur.com/u0rqKQS.png

Sigh and you still miss the point. MY POINT IS, DE SHOULD GIVE A STORY PROGRESSION RATHER THAN SOMETHING TO GRIND, FFS THE STORY IS REACHING ITS CLIMAX. You know it feels like being @#&$-blocked after being teased in a very hot foreplay, such a $&*^ move.

Edited February 4, 2019 by deadbill
inserting picture

[deadbill]

17 hours ago, rapt0rman said:

The story didn't reach its climax with the Chimera Prologue, it was a glorified cutscene (and y'know... a prologue), and they didn't withhold the rest of the story to give you the Paracesis instead. The rest of the story still needs to be made.... and the blueprint will still be there when they're ready.

You find the bad dude Ballas transforming into sentient-like monster spewing sentences about a weapon to "end the war", after you just lost your beloved lotus who transformed into sentient. Not reaching its climax? you gotta be kidding me, the next thing that should happen is an epic battle when the hero (you) makes thing right slaying the evil who make you and your kin suffer while avenging your beloved space mother. And what you get instead ? not even a cliffhanger! the story just stop absurdly in the middle of starting an epic battle. And a blueprint in your foundry, that's it,

Rather than cockblocking players, DE should give the chimera chapter WHEN ITS READY, or, a proper teaser which giving a faint hint for the coming chapter WITHOUT LEAVING ANYTHING HANGING.

[Diarist]

At first I was completely floored by needing 1k Ducats to build it as well.

Then I wound up building it. And doing the 5 Forma thing.

Needless to say I found my new favourite melee weapon.

It may seem like a lot of investment but it feels so good to use and so worth it. I promise. When you get the chance to make it, make it and put the time in.

 

[Thelk641]

Il y a 14 heures, rapt0rman a dit :

Progression requiring platinum would be strictly speaking P2W

Well no. How do you farm ducats ? By opening up relics. How do you farm plat ? By opening up relics.

 

Il y a 14 heures, rapt0rman a dit :

Excalibur Umbra costing peanuts and having a 10 second build time also went against the general design of previous quests.

No. The Apostasy Prologue also had a build time, what changed is that before these craft only used resources everybody already has (except an argon crystal), this isn't the case. This is the longest farm required for a main quest ever (in this game, obviously).

 

And it's not a single point of data : Kubrow quest gave you the components you needed for the craft, then Apostasy required you to farm an argon crystal, than Chimera required 1k ducats, the trend is pretty obvious and is supported by so many players that I don't even see why DE wouldn't go farther in this direction.

Edited February 4, 2019 by Thelk641

[(XBOX)Hyperion Rexx]

Point is, you don't have to farm exclusively for parts to trade for ducats to build this.  You can still collect enough for baro, sell a few for plat etc while slowly building up a stock to make the weapon.  And in my opinion it's one of the best melee weapons in game so well worth it.

If you want to only focus on the prime parts = plat argument that's on you.  You don't have to build it after all.  And shame, you can't just throw a bit of salvage, a cple of argon crystals and a neurode or two at it, which you've likely got in abundance.  It requires you to sacrifice something valuable. 

And what about other items in game with crafting requirements that could be sold for plat ?  Zaws, amps, arcanes etc all require gems/fish which can be sold.  Or do you not want to build any of those things either cos, hey I can sell radiant zodian for plat so that means it's costing me plat to build.

[rapt0rman]

@Thelk641 Tradeable platinum can only be put into circulation by somebody paying money (starting platinum and contest platinum aren't tradable), regardless of who originally pays for it, prime parts can only be acquired from in game, regardless of who farms for it, there is a very distinct difference that DE goes out of their way to avoid.

[(XBOX)Shodian]

I think it only took me like three hours to farm the 1,000 ducats. It's really not too terrible. Plus I was able to get all the forma I needed for it at the same time.

[Atsia]

7 hours ago, deadbill said:

You find the bad dude Ballas transforming into sentient-like monster spewing sentences about a weapon to "end the war", after you just lost your beloved lotus who transformed into sentient. Not reaching its climax? you gotta be kidding me, the next thing that should happen is an epic battle when the hero (you) makes thing right slaying the evil who make you and your kin suffer while avenging your beloved space mother. And what you get instead ? not even a cliffhanger! the story just stop absurdly in the middle of starting an epic battle. And a blueprint in your foundry, that's it,

Rather than cockblocking players, DE should give the chimera chapter WHEN ITS READY, or, a proper teaser which giving a faint hint for the coming chapter WITHOUT LEAVING ANYTHING HANGING.

Yeah, It wasn't a climax. Why? It's called the Chimera PROLOGUE for a reason. The entire point of it was to leave us hanging with questions, like in the Apostasy Prologue. I have no idea where you're getting this idea that there was gonna be this big conclusive fight or resolution with it from. Nothing big was gonna happen in it from the get go. How can it cockblock any of the story when there's no ready story to block after it yet? If the Chimera Prologue had come out with the New War then I'd agree with you, but it's been over 3 months since Chimera at this point. All this was for really was to answer the question of whether Ballas was dead or not and give us a new toy to mess around with. You're blowing the Paracesis way out of proportion right now.

[Softballbryan]

I think the crafting costs were acceptable. It was fun farming the ducats and I started doing the Eidolon quest as a result... had a lot of fun along the way. Comparing ducats to platinum is a stretch. I can play free and get the weapon easily... don’t make it more complicated then that... relax and play the game

[Thelk641]

Il y a 7 heures, (XB1)Hyperion Rexx a dit :

It requires you to sacrifice something valuable. 

My resources are limited, because of my clan's research still being incomplete, therefore my time is a valuable resource.

 

Il y a 5 heures, rapt0rman a dit :

Tradeable platinum can only be put into circulation...

How many thousands of plat is there on the market right now ? If nobody bought plat any more starting tomorrow, how many days before we run out ? Because if that number is high, than the actual source of plat from a players' point of view is meaningless. Plat comes from trading. Ducats comes from trading. Only difference is : plat has fluctuating prices, ducats doesn't, plat is farmed for more than one other reason, ducat isn't.

[rapt0rman]

18 minutes ago, Thelk641 said:

My resources are limited, because of my clan's research still being incomplete, therefore my time is a valuable resource.

 

How many thousands of plat is there on the market right now ? If nobody bought plat any more starting tomorrow, how many days before we run out ? Because if that number is high, than the actual source of plat from a players' point of view is meaningless. Plat comes from trading. Ducats comes from trading. Only difference is : plat has fluctuating prices, ducats doesn't, plat is farmed for more than one other reason, ducat isn't.

Doucats (prime parts) do not come from trading, they come from playing the game, the fact that you have the option to trade for them does not make it the source.

If you don't buy or win platinum, other players are your only option, and that platinum came from someone's money. Platinum is THE premium currency of Warframe, if DE ever crosses that line the backlash will make your campaign against the Paracesis's cost look like a bake sale.

[deadbill]

8 hours ago, Atsia said:

Yeah, It wasn't a climax. Why? It's called the Chimera PROLOGUE for a reason. The entire point of it was to leave us hanging with questions, like in the Apostasy Prologue. I have no idea where you're getting this idea that there was gonna be this big conclusive fight or resolution with it from. Nothing big was gonna happen in it from the get go. How can it cockblock any of the story when there's no ready story to block after it yet? If the Chimera Prologue had come out with the New War then I'd agree with you, but it's been over 3 months since Chimera at this point. All this was for really was to answer the question of whether Ballas was dead or not and give us a new toy to mess around with. You're blowing the Paracesis way out of proportion right now.

Dude please did I even say it was a climax? I said IT IS >>>>>>>>"REACHING"<<<<<<<< THE CLIMAX