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ChillyWilly

The New Sword Crafting Cost

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3 hours ago, China_man1948 said:

So the story, gameplay, graphics etc are not "about" the game. Is the game only about grinding? Yes, i understand grinding is apart of the game, but should it really take 5 plus hours to get a melee weapon? Maybe i just don't get this game, because i don't really grind as hard as other people. I remember once i was trying to get hyroid prime and grinded for his relics and then opened the relics only to get common drops, at the end i just kinda use some plat i got to buy his parts. I used 11 radiant relics (I also had to grind for the relic things to make it radiant). Now i just buy parts from people and sell sets and make a small profit for like 10-20 plat. 

You need to grind MR to unlock specific story quest.
Grinding is a part of Warframe gameplay.
If you think 5 hours of grind just for a melee weapon is not worth it, then don't do it.
If you really need it, there's no such a thing as not worth it.
Suppose you can unlock everything with 1 button and reach endgame without effort, what's the point of the game?
that's not how Warframe works.
Paying to get something you want is optional though

 

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3 hours ago, China_man1948 said:

So the story, gameplay, graphics etc are not "about" the game. Is the game only about grinding? Yes, i understand grinding is apart of the game, but should it really take 5 plus hours to get a melee weapon? Maybe i just don't get this game, because i don't really grind as hard as other people. I remember once i was trying to get hyroid prime and grinded for his relics and then opened the relics only to get common drops, at the end i just kinda use some plat i got to buy his parts. I used 11 radiant relics (I also had to grind for the relic things to make it radiant). Now i just buy parts from people and sell sets and make a small profit for like 10-20 plat. 

For me the game is absolutely about grinding. I don't play any games for their graphics. I hate the silly sci-fi nonsense that passes for lore and story in Warframe. I play for the gameplay, and grinding is a big part of the core gameplay loop - collect resources, build, rank up, repeat.

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19 hours ago, ChillyWilly said:

In a way I still think Platinum and Ducats are close together, but I guess I'ma drop that view point for now

 

Relics don't come from all mission, only endless one, And I'm sick doing endless missions, Maybe thats why

That is not true. Void sabotage gives axi relics, the rarest of them all, just as an example. Another example is bounty reward table. Plague star also threw axi and neo at you like crazy. Oh... And then there's spy. Just go in wanting a mod and you will certainly get relic instead. Easy peasy. I am sure I am missing other sources of relics that aren't endless, but the ones I listed are those I have a lot of experience with. 

Not to mention I often get relics while running fissures. 

 

I am not a vet, and I have to buy pretty much most things when Baro comes because I'm not a vet (as mentioned lol). I had 2k ducats from his last visit and I'm hoarding a ton of primes at the moment for the day when I decide to start trading for plat (or maybe my friends are missing a vaulted part). 

 

But really. Relics come from non-endless. Fissures often come in exterminate or capture or even spy flavor. Not sure why ducats are hard for anyone but a new player so new they have barely tipped their toe in fissures. 

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17 hours ago, (PS4)JaysInc_ said:

Well if you're equating 1k ducats worth of grind as a "hard grind," then your differentiation of what is a easy grind and what is a hard grind is as easily skewed.

I wasn't referencing that point to the current situation but instead to the poster i was replying to.

17 hours ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

I would question that. If you aren't playing a game for the sheer entertainment of that game, then you aren't having fun.

Thats the point you don't understand. I play the game to have fun but grinding all day isn't fun for people without special mental conditions. (look it up, its similar to a skinner box)

17 hours ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

There are no "levels" of grind. You have to invest time playing to acquire things (if you don't want to spend money) and when playing for fun, it's about the journey not the destination (yes, it's cliched, but true).

Seems that you still can't differentiate between different levels of grind.

There IS a difference between a task that takes 20 hours and a task that needs 40h input to generate the wanted output (lets say "time" instead of "work" this time because you don't understand the metaphor) While this scenario does not include RNG numbers its still a totally different outcome than your "everything is the same" suggestion.

The journey can be fun (especially in a game like WF) BUT if you think that the destination doesn't matter then you don't understand how the F2P model works.

To clarify, this comment does not revolve around the requirements of the new weapon anymore, its just a clarification that you refuse to acknowledge that "gind 1 =/= grind 2" if both have totally different values.

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17 minutes ago, Nesodos said:

I wasn't referencing that point to the current situation but instead to the poster i was replying to.

Thats the point you don't understand. I play the game to have fun but grinding all day isn't fun for people without special mental conditions. (look it up, its similar to a skinner box)

Seems that you still can't differentiate between different levels of grind.

There IS a difference between a task that takes 20 hours and a task that needs 40h input to generate the wanted output (lets say "time" instead of "work" this time because you don't understand the metaphor) While this scenario does not include RNG numbers its still a totally different outcome than your "everything is the same" suggestion.

The journey can be fun (especially in a game like WF) BUT if you think that the destination doesn't matter then you don't understand how the F2P model works.

To clarify, this comment does not revolve around the requirements of the new weapon anymore, its just a clarification that you refuse to acknowledge that "gind 1 =/= grind 2" if both have totally different values.

We used to play mmos where it could take you 3 years and still not have the perfect dream loadout that you want for your character. But now farming through playing is considered work?!?! 

20 or 40 hours is meaningless if you are having fun with the basic loop of the game. I never cried over having to do 3 hour raids daily for years to maybe one day finish the "perfect wizard" I came up with. Why? Because every night of raiding was fun and when it stopped being fun, I stopped playing. 

 

I am baffled by what keeps people around that seem to not enjoy the core gameplay enough to think 40 hours is less fun than 20 hours. What keeps a person around who hates endless when half the content of this game is endless. What... Somehow running to one mob, killing it and running to the end is more fun than defending a target while your teammates brought level 0 everything? Nah. No way. That makes it sound like you're just shortening a chore. Why is the basic loop of this game a chore to you? 

I'd probably move on the day when a grind seems like a chore to me because I'm hating half the game content and just murdering fools isn't keeping me hyped anymore. 

As interesting as the lore of this game is, story wise it's pretty damn minimal. 

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il y a une heure, .Ro. a dit :

You need to grind MR to unlock specific story quest.

Every single time you reach a story quest the star chart has already given you the MR you need.

 

il y a une heure, rune_me a dit :

For me the game is absolutely about grinding. I don't play any games for their graphics. I hate the silly sci-fi nonsense that passes for lore and story in Warframe. I play for the gameplay, and grinding is a big part of the core gameplay loop - collect resources, build, rank up, repeat.

But not everyone is you.

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ducats are not really a problem for me, its just the eidalon shards, since i never run it, and noone want to carry me since everyone i come across complain about my starter amp and not knowing what to do.

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13 minutes ago, BloodKitten said:

ducats are not really a problem for me, its just the eidalon shards, since i never run it, and noone want to carry me since everyone i come across complain about my starter amp and not knowing what to do.

You went through konzu queueing up for the single eidolon bounty and people looked at your gear?!? 

Look at YouTube video. But the idea is:

Kill and hack lure. Find the little vombalists (bad spelling I bet), kill them, walk over their drops and go to lure. It will "charge" it. Your party's lures help capture the eidolon which gives better rewards. 

Next, you fight the eidolon. In operator form, you use your amp to hit areas immune to other damage like knees and elbows. Once you do zero dmg with amp, you go back to frame and shoot same spot with sniper. Edit: forgot. Put operator in void (crouch hot key) to avoid the huge aoe attacks from eidolon. 

At some point you are told that vombalists are coming to heal the eidolon. Murder the little dudes with your amp as the operator. 

Eventually you capture it if vombalists didn't heal it and you have enough lures. 

Zephyr is capable of floating in the air avoiding a ton of damage while shooting a sniper. I've had success with Rhino too, but don't go too low on duration so you can buff the party. I don't suggest trinity or Oberon as people will expect you to perform certain roles that you need more experience with. 

But really, watch a video and go do the single eidolon bounty from cetus. Otherwise you will have a long vombalist farm road to get a decent amp. 

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1 hour ago, .Ro. said:

You need to grind MR to unlock specific story quest.
Grinding is a part of Warframe gameplay.
If you think 5 hours of grind just for a melee weapon is not worth it, then don't do it.
If you really need it, there's no such a thing as not worth it.
Suppose you can unlock everything with 1 button and reach endgame without effort, what's the point of the game?
that's not how Warframe works.
Paying to get something you want is optional though

 

I never said that "you can unlock everything with 1 button and reach endgame without effort"

But i do agree with you that grinding is apart of warframe, but i just don't agree with the 1k ducats. It just seems like a bit of a waste. I am still grinding for it, but i would be severely disappointed if the weapon isn't as good as i was hoping. 

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5 minutes ago, China_man1948 said:

I never said that "you can unlock everything with 1 button and reach endgame without effort"

But i do agree with you that grinding is apart of warframe, but i just don't agree with the 1k ducats. It just seems like a bit of a waste. I am still grinding for it, but i would be severely disappointed if the weapon isn't as good as i was hoping. 

Reviews have been popping up... Gram Prime is better apparently. Haven't seen comparisons with zaw heavy blades yet. 

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1 hour ago, Nesodos said:

I wasn't referencing that point to the current situation but instead to the poster i was replying to.

Thats the point you don't understand. I play the game to have fun but grinding all day isn't fun for people without special mental conditions. (look it up, its similar to a skinner box)

Seems that you still can't differentiate between different levels of grind.

There IS a difference between a task that takes 20 hours and a task that needs 40h input to generate the wanted output (lets say "time" instead of "work" this time because you don't understand the metaphor) While this scenario does not include RNG numbers its still a totally different outcome than your "everything is the same" suggestion.

The journey can be fun (especially in a game like WF) BUT if you think that the destination doesn't matter then you don't understand how the F2P model works.

To clarify, this comment does not revolve around the requirements of the new weapon anymore, its just a clarification that you refuse to acknowledge that "gind 1 =/= grind 2" if both have totally different values.

 

16 hours ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

giphy.gif

 

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1 hour ago, DeaHamlet said:

-Text-

I played WOW for a couple of years (3000+ hours) and the grind in that game is extraordinary.
Its like Blizz took the good endgame stuff, mixed it with peanut butter and spread it over a drop rate sheet the size of a country.(but lets not compare them here *stares at japanese MMO's drop rates*)

The thing is that the 20 vs 40h are an example of how there are different dropchances in the game(from a statistical standpoint where RNG doesn't f* you over) because abbacephas doesn't realise the psychical aspect behind the grind.

The big thing is that, lets say (loose metaphor INBOUND) having to eat 1 bar of chocolate a day can be very nice while having to eat 40 bars a day can be a chore. (at least to normal people). While some people might enjoy this there are people who think it might be better to reduce the 40 bars to 30 or less a day and thats totally ok as long the way this gets communicated stays civil.

The point I am trying to make here is that I tried to state the simple fact that "grind =/= grind".(please don't take every metaphor as a real occurance)

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Did we really get to talking about 40 bars of chocolate in a day... In a thread about 1000 ducats? 

I can't go a day without relics coming in. I honestly don't know when I'm ever going to get to zero of them except maybe axi. 

I keep making random ones radiant and exceptional cause I'm at the max every other day. 

I can get 1000 ducats in an hour easily. And the boring non-endless way no less. 

And most of those items aren't worth more than 2-3 plat. Not worth my trade limit to sell those junks. 

I buy baro items for my friends when they don't have enough (or when their computer dies and they can't be around for baro). I gave them prime golds to get some aesthetics. 

 

And I'm a noob. So I'm beyond perplexed that 1000 ducats is called a grind of any sort let alone causing semantic discussions on how not all grinds are created equal.

I think I'm happy I wasn't on forums when 30k cryotic weapon showed up. Now that took a lot longer than 1000 ducats and you can only get cryotic in one game type... Excavation!!! 

Also any time you buy an item from Baro to use, op, do you sit there going "omg if I bought Primed continuity instead I'd be making X plat, so this Baro dude is so expensive wanting me to pay 400 ducats for this weapon"?!?! 

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That moment when a person doesn't know the difference between a metaphor and a very poor and faulty analogy and yet claims I don't know the "psychical aspect behind the grind."

K.

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1 hour ago, BloodKitten said:

ducats are not really a problem for me, its just the eidalon shards, since i never run it, and noone want to carry me since everyone i come across complain about my starter amp and not knowing what to do.

Just do the Teralyst bounty with randoms not the three Eidolons and you'll unlikely to get much flak.  You may be unlucky and everyone will have starter gear, but hey, that how it was at the beginning.  We got through it so can you.

But most of the time at least one person will have decent gear and experience at which point its simple and quick.

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2 hours ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

That moment when a person doesn't know the difference between a metaphor and a very poor and faulty analogy and yet claims I don't know the "psychical aspect behind the grind."

K.

You showed no sign of knowledge on the subject whatsoever and relied on bad memeing instead of discussing with facts.
Its right that I mixed up metaphor and analogy and I have to admit I made a mistake but you were the one to claim that grind is grind no matter what

2xK.

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4 hours ago, Thelk641 said:

Every single time you reach a story quest the star chart has already given you the MR you need.

That's not true for everyone. There was a thread made by someone a while ago who sped through the starchart and was at MR3 and was stuck trying to get past the relay lock of MR5. The relay is the requirement that must be met to get to the quest, we must grind for the relay, so we must grind to get the quest. 

 

3 hours ago, DeaHamlet said:

Did we really get to talking about 40 bars of chocolate in a day... In a thread about 1000 ducats

I dunno, but that's something I want to support wholeheartedly. More chocolate... But not for Kubrows.

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On 2018-10-12 at 5:23 PM, (PS4)abbacephas said:

But, Platinum is premium currency, whereas Ducats are, in essence, like credits. There is a significant difference here, which cannot be overlooked.

Except you can convert ducats to platinum, since just about every prime part blueprint can be sold for plat somewhat easily.

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On 2018-10-12 at 12:20 PM, ChillyWilly said:

I don't think you understand the situation, Nothing should be beginner friendly, I know.

But Ducats itself have a value, Just like platinum

 

and I have to disagree that 1000 Ducats are easy to get, If you got lucky and hit 10 Rare in a row, or get uncommon every time, sure. but it very unlikely

 

You can say "I have 8000 platinum, 50 platinum for a weapon is not bad" But no, it is bad when you bring CURRENCY into a crafting cost.

I have quite alot of plat and I will not pay 50-100 platinum for that new Shotgun as "Crafting Cost". Its just doesn't feel right

Ok.  Then don’t build it.  It’s far, FAR less than is needed to build the Hema or Sibear in terms of resources.

AND LET’S GET ONE THING STRAIGHT:

Ducats and Platinum are NOT the same.  Your argument falls apart when it gets pointed out that the ducat has no REAL monetary value tied to it like Platinum.

It’s a FARMABLE resource like any other in the game.

So go farm and build the weapon or don’t.  But don’t try to use a flawed argument.

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I dont understand why people are going mad when they didnt get that new shiny item in few hours after the new update? I mean, you still get tomorrow, and tomorrow after that, to keep grind those things.. it’s not like khora’s part, even if today you only got like 100 ducats, just keep playing and you’ll reach that 1000 somehow, unlike khora’s part where it’s either 0 or 1.. from my experience, i havent got khora at the first week since her release.. because of impatience, i bought her with plat.. in the next two weeks, i got 2 khora set.. just be patience and calm..

And this is not to judge you or other people, im just throw some thought here..

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5 hours ago, Melanholic7 said:

1000 ducats its 100 plat. not SO much,no?

Incorrect, at 25 plat per item, selling 10 of those items would give you about 250 plat and that's a basic number, considering those more "rare" items in relic drops, sorry, slot machines tend to fetch more then 25 plat per then that number becomes much larger.  So no, it is not "not So much" it is quite a lot. I'd much rather spend that 1000 Ducats on primed mods because paying 300+ plat for a single mod is just ridiculous in this "free to play" game.

I was reading through the comments and someone mentioned "you may not need" the weapon.  Yeah like DE didn't totally design The Sacrifice quest with higher level operators and maxed out AMPs.  No all you really needed was the MOT amp right? No, wrong on all accounts, as someone who played the Sacrifice without any Operator upgrades and the basic amp I can tell you that it made that entire quest not fun.  I could not concentrate on the "story" when I was doing almost no damage and constantly dying because DE had the bright idea to assume everyone would be at a particular level when they released that quest.  This will be the same thing you may not "need it" but trying to do whatever this future unknown quest without it sure will make your life a living hell during the entire time that you try to play it.

It comes down to DE is out of touch with what the average players are capable of making, 100-300 Ducats would have been fine for everyone but 1000 is asking far too much, on top of the fact that Ducats equal Plat and you're basically arguing to pay to win. 

Let's also ask ourselves why DE decided to make Ballas's weapon require Ducats, a currency that only Baro made for himself.  Lore wise it makes no sense as credits and plat are the norm and Ducats was added much later in WF's cycle.  Different weapon parts would have made more sense, other easier lootable or farmable items would have made sense but Ducats makes no sense at all.

This whole player mentality of "I have mine you can do the same" is a ridiculous way to run your life, sorry but not everyone has the same drive as you do to mindlessly grind a really bad slot machine to get the most out of your relics it's just a fact.  You are actually in the minority you're just far more "loud" about it and I whole heartedly agree with the OP about this entire mess.  If you're so rich, donate your Ducats to everyone who can not play the game for more then a few hours at a time, man up and donate if you feel that your side is the correct one, put your money where your mouth is but I bet you won't because you know.

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