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The New Sword Crafting Cost

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11 minutes ago, Hawk1911 said:

Incorrect, at 25 plat per item, selling 10 of those items would give you about 250 plat and that's a basic number, considering those more "rare" items in relic drops, sorry, slot machines tend to fetch more then 25 plat per then that number becomes much larger.  So no, it is not "not So much" it is quite a lot. I'd much rather spend that 1000 Ducats on primed mods because paying 300+ plat for a single mod is just ridiculous in this "free to play" game.

I was reading through the comments and someone mentioned "you may not need" need the weapon.  Yeah like DE didn't totally design The Sacrifice quest with higher level oporators and maxed out AMPs.  No all you really needed was the MOT amp right? No, wrong on all accounts, as someone who played the Sacrifice without any Oporator upgrades and the basic amp I can tell you that it made that entire quest not fun.  I could not concentrate on the "story" when I was doing almost no damage and constantly dying because DE had the bright idea to assume everyone would be at a particular level when they released that quest.  This will be the same thing you may not "need it" but trying to do whatever this future unknown quest without it sure will make your life a living hell during the entire time that you try to play it.

IT comes down to DE is out of touch with what the average players are capable of making, 100-300 Ducats would have been fine for everyone but 1000 is asking far too much, on top of the fact that Ducats equal Plat and you're basically arguing to pay to win. 

Let's also ask ourselves why DE decided to make Ballas's weapon require Ducats, a currency that only Baro made for himself.  Lore wise it makes no sense as credits and plat are the norm and Ducats was added much later in WF's cycle.  Different weapon parts would have made more sense, other easier lootable or farmable items would have made sense but Ducats makes no sense at all.

This whole player mentality of "I have mine you can do the same" is a ridiculous way to run your life, sorry but not everyone has the same drive as you do to mindlessly grind a really bad slot machine to get the most out of your relics it's just a fact.  You are actually in the minority you're just far more "loud" about it and I whole heartedly agree with the OP about this entire mess.  If you're so rich, donate your Ducats to everyone who can not play the game for more then a few hours at a time, man up and donate if you feel that your side is the correct one, put your money where your mouth is but I bet you won't because you know.

Or accept that you get out of it what you put into it, which means accepting the ramifications of not engaging in the time sink to get the weapon...or operator upgrades.  Because that’s what it is.

It’s your complaint and YOUR perception that it qualifies DE as inept because you, personally, think it takes too long to get this particular FREE thing.

AND AGAIN, DUCATS ARE IN NO WAY TIED TO REAL MONEY, So stop Equating them to Platinum. 

The game costs you time, or money, or some mix of both.  Feedback is fine but complaining that DE is inept because you disagree...revealing.

Edited by (PS4)Silverback73
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9 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Or accept that you get out of it what you put into it, which means accepting the ramifications of not engaging in the time sink to get the weapon.  Because that’s what it is.

It’s your complaint and YOUR perception that it qualifies DE as inept because you, personally, think it takes too long to get this particular FREE thing.

AND AGAIN, DUCATS ARE IN NO WAY TIED TO REAL MONEY, So stop Equating them to Platinum. 

The game costs you time, or money, or some mix of both.  Feedback is fine but complaining that DE is inept because you disagree...revealing.

I'm up to 715 hours total gameplay time and I just started about a month+ ago, is that not enough time for you and your gauge measurements?  God talk about out of touch and overly protective.  Quite "revealing" yourself when you think about your unobtainable ideals of what a player has a right to say and what he does not simply based on his total play time and experience, funny huh?

You can keep saying Ducats do not equate money but the reality of it is that they are an almost 1 to 1 analogue of Platinum, to deny this fact is to also be a round earth denier, pure and simple.

Edited by Hawk1911
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7 hours ago, Nesodos said:

I wasn't referencing that point to the current situation but instead to the poster i was replying to.

Thats the point you don't understand. I play the game to have fun but grinding all day isn't fun for people without special mental conditions. (look it up, its similar to a skinner box)

Seems that you still can't differentiate between different levels of grind.

There IS a difference between a task that takes 20 hours and a task that needs 40h input to generate the wanted output (lets say "time" instead of "work" this time because you don't understand the metaphor) While this scenario does not include RNG numbers its still a totally different outcome than your "everything is the same" suggestion.

The journey can be fun (especially in a game like WF) BUT if you think that the destination doesn't matter then you don't understand how the F2P model works.

To clarify, this comment does not revolve around the requirements of the new weapon anymore, its just a clarification that you refuse to acknowledge that "gind 1 =/= grind 2" if both have totally different values.

This is exactly the issue currently plaguing the thread, the lack of empathy towards people who are not exactly like yourselves.  You either find the same things enjoyable as they do or you're wrong.  Nesodos gets it on the nose regarding levels of grind and how different people have different tolerances to said grind and levels of it.

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10 minutes ago, Hawk1911 said:

You can keep saying Ducats do not equate money but the reality of it is that they are an almost 1 to 1 analogue of Platinum, to deny this fact is to also be a round earth denier, pure and simple.

Only one of those two can be brought with real world money.  Ducats isn't exchanged for real world currency like Plat is.  Hence why he said ducats do not equate to Plat.  

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Nothing wrong with it costing 1000 ducats. What is wrong are the people saying it is worth real money.

Every material you farm in the game would be worth real money according to that "logic". Because the moment you farm something besides primes parts to sell you effectivly lose out on potential platinum income.

Nitain Extract defense or survival mission is worth 2 potential prime parts of random quality, or a forma recipe. So each time you do one of those alerts you are robbing yourself of platinum. Doing a helmet alert? Well you might have been luckier doing a relic run and gotten two p-parts worth more than the helmet so you could buy it instead. Dont forget all the mats you need to use in those helmets aswell. That makes it one damn expensive "free" helmet going by the logic on the complainers.

Maybe I shouldnt have written those pointers, some may actually take it into consideration in their OCD in-game routine for maximum platinum gain.

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2 hours ago, Nesodos said:

You showed no sign of knowledge on the subject whatsoever and relied on bad memeing instead of discussing with facts.

What "facts"? You haven't presented any "facts". You've provided subjective opinion. The fact of the matter is, to acquire 1000 ducats requires a player to grind for it. Those are the facts. That one player takes 2 hours while another takes 4 does not change the fact that this requires grinding. There is no difference between grinding for an hour and grinding for 10. The only difference is the length of time, not the grind.

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2 hours ago, ReaverKane said:

Except you can convert ducats to platinum, since just about every prime part blueprint can be sold for plat somewhat easily.

Oh really? What's the exchange rate then?

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So, I'm one of those people who are still like, "The Hema research cost is idiotic, and people that defend it are stupid." I get annoyed thinking about the Sibear. However, 1000 ducats is something that I think is totally fine. It's a high cost, but at the same time, it's a fair high cost. It's a, "ok let's sit down and go for this." Rather than a, "I'm going to be spending around 2 weeks of just farming to get this."

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I also think people are missing one important thing regarding platinum, it has no real world application. Once bought, the money is gone and Plat is essentially worthless. You CAN'T use it to go buy a sandwich. It does not translate to anything outside of the game. Sure, you could trade it to some other player in exchange of goods and services outside of the game but that is strictly forbidden by the EULA/Terms of Service that can result in you losing everything. Not transferred to others, just removed from the game. 

Platinum is a currency in-game but other then immediate refunds, once paid for, has no impact on your wallet. People like equating platinum with real world money because there is a somewhat clear exchange rate, but that can be modified with boosters and the like and thus does not work. Is plat bought with 75% off worth less then plat bought at full price? What about plat you go through trade? Is that worth differently in real world money? Is the 50 starter plat, that can't be traded, monopoly money or some weird foreign currency that no one knows how to use? 

Essentially, Platinum isn't so much currency as it is "content". Or at least a medium to unlocking content. It's a multipurpose crafting resource if you look at it from an another angle. 

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What I am getting from this entire thread is that people are lazy and want to craft something instantly but because they do not want to run fissure runs they are complaining about it here. It would probably take you a week max to get 1000 ducats as a casual player with a job and family. What else could you be possibly be doing in game where you don't have the time to run fissure runs?

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26 minutes ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

Oh really? What's the exchange rate then?

Maybe i misspoke, you can't transform ducats into plat, but you can establish a correspondence in value between ducats and platinum, because there's an established market for Prime part blueprints in warframe, which is dealt in platinum. And as you know, the only way atm to obtain ducats is to exchange them for prime parts. So much so, that most players i know will consider the plat value of such parts before turning them into ducats.

As for an exchange rate, it varies with rarity of items, but it can be somewhat estimated:

Lets take 2 extreme examples:

  • Limbo Prime systems: average value in warframe market is around 3 plat, and is a common drop, so 15 ducats, exchange rate = 5 ducats : 1 plat
  • Nova Prime Chassis: Average value in wfm is 230 plat, it's a rare drop, so 100 ducats, exchange rate = 0.43 ducats : 1 plat

So exchange can go from 0,4 to 5 ducats per 1 plat, just looking at these cases.

9 minutes ago, Lakais said:

I also think people are missing one important thing regarding platinum, it has no real world application. Once bought, the money is gone and Plat is essentially worthless. You CAN'T use it to go buy a sandwich. It does not translate to anything outside of the game. Sure, you could trade it to some other player in exchange of goods and services outside of the game but that is strictly forbidden by the EULA/Terms of Service that can result in you losing everything. Not transferred to others, just removed from the game. 

Platinum is a currency in-game but other then immediate refunds, once paid for, has no impact on your wallet. People like equating platinum with real world money because there is a somewhat clear exchange rate, but that can be modified with boosters and the like and thus does not work. Is plat bought with 75% off worth less then plat bought at full price? What about plat you go through trade? Is that worth differently in real world money? Is the 50 starter plat, that can't be traded, monopoly money or some weird foreign currency that no one knows how to use? 

Essentially, Platinum isn't so much currency as it is "content". Or at least a medium to unlocking content. It's a multipurpose crafting resource if you look at it from an another angle. 

The fact that you can't trade platinum back into real money, doesn't mean it doesn't have a real monetary value. Yes, the price varies with discounts, but so does everything.

Lets take a real world comparisson... Lets say you buy a pair of Versace Boxers... I just googled and you can buy a pair for 82€.

I doubt anyone will buy those boxers from you after you wear them, so goodbye money back. But still, you know they're worth 82€. You can probably find them on sale in a while, but you still know they cost up to 82€. So you can still say, despite knowing that you can't turn them back into money, or can find them cheaper sometimes that they cost 82€, and you can also say that 82€ is WAY TOO GODDAMN MONEY FOR A PAIR OF BOXERS!!

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On 2018-10-12 at 10:26 AM, ChillyWilly said:

I'ma just put this here "Hema"

There is a clear difference between a bit of effort to grind for and too much effort to grind for

You are forgetting a point though, we already spend ducats to get weapons, I believe there is one that takes 500 ducats. fine, maybe having it 1000 is a bit much and 500 would be all it needed. But saying ducats should never be in the crafting because it is currency is basically saying we should not have baro, or removing the... well... credit cost on EVERY SINGLE THING YOU CRAFT because it is also a currency with value.

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Just wait a year to build it.  DE will reduce the cost in the face of everyone who actually did the work with the original costs like:

  • vauban
  • stasis recovery ver. 1
  • stasis recovery ver 2
  • archwing launchers
  • keys for mesa farm
  • some of the dojo colors
  • kavat code drops
  • etc etc. 

the list is endless - even in the last 2 major updates there were significant farming reductions for new players that veterans battled through.

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1 час назад, Hawk1911 сказал:

Incorrect, at 25 plat per item, selling 10 of those items would give you about 250 plat and that's a basic number, considering those more "rare" items in relic drops, sorry, slot machines tend to fetch more then 25 plat per then that number becomes much larger.  So no, it is not "not So much" it is quite a lot. I'd much rather spend that 1000 Ducats on primed mods because paying 300+ plat for a single mod is just ridiculous in this "free to play" game.

I was reading through the comments and someone mentioned "you may not need" the weapon.  Yeah like DE didn't totally design The Sacrifice quest with higher level operators and maxed out AMPs.  No all you really needed was the MOT amp right? No, wrong on all accounts, as someone who played the Sacrifice without any Operator upgrades and the basic amp I can tell you that it made that entire quest not fun.  I could not concentrate on the "story" when I was doing almost no damage and constantly dying because DE had the bright idea to assume everyone would be at a particular level when they released that quest.  This will be the same thing you may not "need it" but trying to do whatever this future unknown quest without it sure will make your life a living hell during the entire time that you try to play it.

It comes down to DE is out of touch with what the average players are capable of making, 100-300 Ducats would have been fine for everyone but 1000 is asking far too much, on top of the fact that Ducats equal Plat and you're basically arguing to pay to win. 

Let's also ask ourselves why DE decided to make Ballas's weapon require Ducats, a currency that only Baro made for himself.  Lore wise it makes no sense as credits and plat are the norm and Ducats was added much later in WF's cycle.  Different weapon parts would have made more sense, other easier lootable or farmable items would have made sense but Ducats makes no sense at all.

This whole player mentality of "I have mine you can do the same" is a ridiculous way to run your life, sorry but not everyone has the same drive as you do to mindlessly grind a really bad slot machine to get the most out of your relics it's just a fact.  You are actually in the minority you're just far more "loud" about it and I whole heartedly agree with the OP about this entire mess.  If you're so rich, donate your Ducats to everyone who can not play the game for more then a few hours at a time, man up and donate if you feel that your side is the correct one, put your money where your mouth is but I bet you won't because you know.

im new player, bought around 5k ducats for 3 month, and my ~cost was 10p for gold item. so...maybe problem not in game?:)

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I can't have empathy when I have fewer in game hours than you and I was easily sitting on 2k ducat after a very expensive Baro weekend. I can't have empathy when you exaggerate. I don't sell to Baro any prime part that is worth over 10plat. And yet I had 2k ducats and haven't traded even anything after Baro's last visit. 

 

I can't empathize with people that want to make it sound like ducats is like asking for plat. Everything you do is therefore costing you plat because you're not actively pursuing expensive mods or prime parts. Ridiculous argument. 

 

I can't empathize with people crying about a 2 hour ducat farm that allows you to play most if not all content in game to obtain. You're not forced to do excavation only like for cryotics. I could be farming a ton of plat in the time it took to get 30k cryotics. You're not forced to only run derelict maps until you're sick of infested and broken infected landscape. 

In fact, you don't even have to run any particular thing. Trade standing for relics and run any fissure of any type. Trade standing for items, sell for plat and then buy silver and gold trash for 1-5 plat each. Farm rare mods and do the same. You can run spy, sabotage, goodness knows what else and get relics. 

But somehow this is the farm that is insulting and hard. For whom?! People who refuse to part with ducats because they are using it to make plat? You should have plenty of ducats if you don't need Baro items for yourself anymore. People who refuse to run content that easily gives relics but refuse to run other content that gives relics because "not as efficient"? There is plenty in this game that demands you do a certain type of content without choice but ducats isn't it. 

 

I can't empathize with people that are complaining about an easily obtained resource and have provided no real argument other than "but I don't want to do x, y, Z" or "but my plat income wah"! 

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1 hour ago, Hawk1911 said:

I'm up to 715 hours total gameplay time and I just started about a month+ ago, is that not enough time for you and your gauge measurements?  God talk about out of touch and overly protective.  Quite "revealing" yourself when you think about your unobtainable ideals of what a player has a right to say and what he does not simply based on his total play time and experience, funny huh?

You can keep saying Ducats do not equate money but the reality of it is that they are an almost 1 to 1 analogue of Platinum, to deny this fact is to also be a round earth denier, pure and simple.

I’m keeping emotion out of this so whatever inner “story” voice you’ve assigned to me has little to do with the fact that Ducats are a time sink like every other resource in the game that does not require actual money.

Time and Real money are the two currencies in Warframe.  There is some interdependence between the Time/Money equation which is why DE introduced Ducats to support the currency of time...the investment of your time.

If you feel 1,000 Ducats is a number that is too high, let DE know.  But don’t bark about them being out of touch and inept and being insidious by purposely removing “fun” from The Sacrifice Quest to force you to level your Operator.

You’ve created a story about me and a Story about DE but it’s not reality.

I don’t judge you, BTW.  

And this 1:1 ratio of Ducats to Platinum is a THIRD story you’ve created.

At some point Platinum requires REAL money to inject into the Warframe economy.

Ask around and see who would EVER trade you 1:1, Ducats for Plat.

Ducats are actually in the game to ENSURE that supply and demand support Platinum as the premium currency by a wide margin.

You think the Earth is round?

 

Edited by (PS4)Silverback73
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23 minutes ago, ReaverKane said:

The fact that you can't trade platinum back into real money, doesn't mean it doesn't have a real monetary value. Yes, the price varies with discounts, but so does everything.

Lets take a real world comparisson... Lets say you buy a pair of Versace Boxers... I just googled and you can buy a pair for 82€.

I doubt anyone will buy those boxers from you after you wear them, so goodbye money back. But still, you know they're worth 82€. You can probably find them on sale in a while, but you still know they cost up to 82€. So you can still say, despite knowing that you can't turn them back into money, or can find them cheaper sometimes that they cost 82€, and you can also say that 82€ is WAY TOO GODDAMN MONEY FOR A PAIR OF BOXERS!!

I'm sort of getting at what you say economically, but I'm failing to see where this is going for ducats in crafting. I was merely pointing that using platinum to create some kind of backing for anything is flawed at even the most basic level. And as you also proved, the value of ducat to plat varies by an order of magnitude. Which is a massive problem in credibility. Not to mention that only a portion of the playerbase farms primes for the sake of trading or even keeps parts they don't need for trading. Some are loaded with ducats because they don't put value on prime parts. Some have none because they value prime parts too much. Others have none because they simply haven't gotten around to playing the game enough to get those prime parts to convert. 

Personally, it felt refreshing to have to have to think about what I needed and how to get it. Even if all the stuff I needed was collecting dust in my inventory. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Lakais said:

I'm sort of getting at what you say economically, but I'm failing to see where this is going for ducats in crafting. I was merely pointing that using platinum to create some kind of backing for anything is flawed at even the most basic level. And as you also proved, the value of ducat to plat varies by an order of magnitude. Which is a massive problem in credibility. Not to mention that only a portion of the playerbase farms primes for the sake of trading or even keeps parts they don't need for trading. Some are loaded with ducats because they don't put value on prime parts. Some have none because they value prime parts too much. Others have none because they simply haven't gotten around to playing the game enough to get those prime parts to convert. 

Personally, it felt refreshing to have to have to think about what I needed and how to get it. Even if all the stuff I needed was collecting dust in my inventory. 

 

Well, that's hardly new in warframe, or refreshing... I mean Broken war exists, as do all the landers, everything from Baro kiteer, etc. There's hardly any lack of farming required in Warframe, there's nothing new or refreshing about this recipe in particular, except that introduces another rng inside the already abundant Rngs

 

Not to mention that the last couple of Baro Kiteer offerings were very extensive and with a ton of new items, which probably has already left many players kinda depleted and deflated in terms of their willingness to farm more, not to mention, there's a new Baro batch coming at the end of the week.

Also 1000 ducats is equivalent to somewhere between 10 and 67 relics, for a single melee weapon (which entails other costs on top of it), while the best items on Baro usually go for 500 ducats at most. So it's an excessive cost compared to it's value, unless they make the weapon really op, which then its just sad.

Edited by ReaverKane
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2 hours ago, ReaverKane said:

Well, that's hardly new in warframe, or refreshing... I mean Broken war exists, as do all the landers, everything from Baro kiteer, etc. There's hardly any lack of farming required in Warframe, there's nothing new or refreshing about this recipe in particular, except that introduces another rng inside the already abundant Rngs

 

Not to mention that the last couple of Baro Kiteer offerings were very extensive and with a ton of new items, which probably has already left many players kinda depleted and deflated in terms of their willingness to farm more, not to mention, there's a new Baro batch coming at the end of the week.

Also 1000 ducats is equivalent to somewhere between 10 and 67 relics, for a single melee weapon (which entails other costs on top of it), while the best items on Baro usually go for 500 ducats at most. So it's an excessive cost compared to it's value, unless they make the weapon really op, which then its just sad.

The standard was set with Hema and Sybear, though.  It’s not as though this new weapon pushes the standard.

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I literally just ran lith exterminate on earth for about an hour and made 1400 ducets solo took me about 2-3 minutes per run sometimes 4 if the spawns were garbage. If you put in a little effort you can do it easy.

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Doesn't this really come down to the grind?

Either you understand that Warfrme R*E*Q*U*I*R*E*S grind, and you accept that - which means you're willing to grind for the Relics to grind for the Primes to sell for the Ducats to build this weapon. Or else you demonstrate that you don't understand and accept that by complaining about it here - in which case you're welcome to go play some other game, one that lets you have/buy what you want immediately, and don't have to have any patience or put up with grinding.

The one option that isn't on the table is for you to play Warframe and get all the Sparklies without grinding (or spending Plat, when that option is available).

Seems pretty straightforward to me. But that's me.

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Am 12.10.2018 um 18:10 schrieb DarkRuler2500:

I have 52k spare.ducats.. so what? Not everything needs to be beginner friendly.

I've been here for years and have barely any ducats.

Your argument is invalid.

 

OP is right. The idea of putting a currency into the crafting requirements is ridiculous. Even if it was only 1k credits, the very concept of it is just bad in every way.

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1 hour ago, o0Despair0o said:

OP is right. The idea of putting a currency into the crafting requirements is ridiculous. Even if it was only 1k credits, the very concept of it is just bad in every way.

So, don't build it, and give feedback to DE in the proper channel so they can change it if it's an oversight. Posting in General Discussion just goes nowhere, and other than your five-seconds-of-fame, nothing really gets done. 

In the meantime, those of us who can build it, just will. It's grind heavy yes, but it's fairly doable. Few hours of ducat farming and you'll be sorted. 

Now the five forma I need for it tho.... :sadcry:

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1,000 took me 2hrs to farm from doing captures... it's not hard, or a ridiculous asking cost. 
The sword is good. 
90 mod capacity, rank 40, 60% sentient bonus damage, easily fits umbral mods for added sentient damage. Wide AoE knockdown with ground slam. 
Fast with primed fury + berserker.. like rlly fast

Edited by Vesiga

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5 hours ago, KamikazeKamanzi said:

What I am getting from this entire thread is that people are lazy and want to craft something instantly but because they do not want to run fissure runs they are complaining about it here. It would probably take you a week max to get 1000 ducats as a casual player with a job and family. What else could you be possibly be doing in game where you don't have the time to run fissure runs?

just gotta wait for a lith fissure exterminate and run the full hour out 2-3 mins per run I literally did it in an hour and had 400 over what I needed

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