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SPOILERS Chimera lore talk


(XBOX)AntiCaesar
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47 minutes ago, DeathDweller said:

Could be that or he just wanted a clean death after all these but she prevented it by making him what he is now.Technically he can still use another body?

It's just that those words "perfect death" is weird to say like that, it doesn't mean anything to someone "normal", that's why I think this, by becoming a sentient himself he will lose his ability to change bodies, because his soul/spirit will be corrupted

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38 minutes ago, (XB1)AntiCaesar said:

But if you consider Ballas, it seems they're closer to the Infestation due to the slow but eventual transformation he's undergoing. We haven't really seen how fast the technocyte works, and even less the Helminth strain. There's no definite time frame between the Sacrifice and the Chimera Prologue, so it could be acting fast for all we know. I think we should wait until Chimera is released to be sure on this one.

Back before the Sacrifice, I held the opinion that the Sentient and Infestation were more or less the same thing.  They both had adaptive features, a shared mind to some extent, and organic features.  The art DE showed for Phorid 2.0 even seemed to draw from the Sentient drone chest.  But with the comments from Ballas about warframes in the Sacrifice, it seemed apparent that the Infestation was a strictly organic thing that occured independent of the Sentient.  

However. . . 

If you get behind Ballas during Chimera, you can see his butt looks like its becoming like an Ancient's, with the split and "fish ribs" on the inside.  This compounds with other things, like how the Infested, Sentient, and warframes all have little shining dots all over instead of eyes; and how the asteroid in the New War trailer could pass as an Infested mass.  We still don't know where the Infestation origionally came from, so who knows at this point?  

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My take-aways:

  • Man in the Wall
    • He's now voiced by Rebecca, apparently...implying this is a different "Man in the Wall," or rather a "Lotus in the Wall.
      • This may mean there is no "Man in the Wall," and that there are multiple entities associated with the concept.
    • We can't shift into Operator mode for most of the mission, with the following possible implications
      • We are playing as the warframe, and chasing the operator while he's in a dream-state; we cannot summon our operator.
      • The operator (each one) may literally be the Man in the Wall
      • "Man in the Wall" may be the interpretation that the autistic Rell gave to himself, as the "Man in the Mirror."
      • Every Tenno has an individual "Man in the Wall / Mirror," who looks identical to themselves.
      • Every Man in the Wall is possibly a "Void Reflection" of any entity with Oro.
      • Tenno are called "Void Demons."
      • Tenno may not be the Void-exposed children...the children may simply be "daemonhosts," and thus a "Third Dream"
        • The real entity...the "Void Demon" who controls the Operator and the Warframe...is an extradimensional entity.....possibly even the players themselves.
      • A "Third Dream" may exist, and the various "Men in the Wall" may be a brief lifting of the curtain, showing a third entity (besides the operators and the Warframes) who make up the collective entities known as Tenno.
        • Perhaps everything experienced up until now has been a simulation for the still sleeping Tenno, preparing them to be reawakened and launched at the Sentients....thus why every Tenno experiences the same key events.
    • The Man in the Wall may not be a "reflection" of the Operator, but possibly represent some kind of new third party.
      • I'm basically thinking Warhammer 40k chaos daemons.
      • He may take on the appearance of the Tenno because that's something they can relate to.
      • Leading the Tenno to Ballas may have been an effort to entice further conflict, and thus weaken the Origin System's forces and the Tau Ceti System's forces, in preparation for an extra-dimensional invasion....or the Void entities may just be jerks.  
  • Lotus
    • Lotus is Revolver Ocelot.
      • She is an infiltrator...her loyalties are likely not even known to the Sentients.
      • She is either a double or re-doubled agent at this point...it's unclear.
    • The Lotus helmet may hold the Oro of Morgulis.
      • The Helmet has helped us out TWICE now.  First to find Umbra, and now to find Ballas
      • It appears to still be "Lotus" in there....or possibly Morgulis
      • The Helmet may have been what bound Morgulis and Natah together into the Lotus.
        • Now that they are separated, the Helmet seems to be aiding us however it can....and mainly through the Void.
    • Natah may still be loyal to the Tenno and working in conjunction with what's left of Morgulis....which now rests with all 33 million Tenno.
  • Ballas
    • Ballas got "played like a **** fiddle!!!!"
      • Yeah, he's basically McDonnell "Kaz" Miller now...even down to the lost eye and the mutilation.
    • Points out something I've been bothered by for months....Tenno are killers of the potential saviors of the Origin system: the Corpus, Grineer, and even the Infested
      • Natah may have played the long game to use the Tenno for just this purpose, mimicking Morgulis.
    •  He is literally a chimera of Sentient and Orokin...and he realized that he derped....possibly new ally.
      • This hints at new mechanics that we may see soon.
    • His own eye now betray him
      • The "eye we see is apparently a surveillance device installed by "space grandma" or Natah....it's not clear as the pronoun "she" is used a lot in his monologue.
      • He's hardcore an ally now, but has to hid his sight to allay attention.
    • His new sword is weird
      • It goes up to level 90
      • This is the Super Saiyen 3 of weapons in this game
      • He calls it the "Sentient Slayer" while covering his eye...he's running a risky gambit from within the enemy's camp.
      • This sword will have some kind of significance to the plot....we'll see where this goes.
    • For some reason, he didn't perform Continuance when he was [mortally? we stabbed him in the gut, not the heart] wounded...
      • Now that he's part Sentient, he may have lost this capability
    • We just went to the Tau Ceti System for the first time in game.  We've seem it in the "The New War" trailer for a moment, but very little else.  This is a pretty awesome point that I think a lot of people missed.
      • The Sentients and Ballas have some kind of "Void Portal" based interstellar FTL travel, that is dissimilar to the Origin / Sol System's "Solar Rail" technology
  • Tenno
    • The Tenno are no longer the underdogs that they were five years ago.
      • The number of Tenno has swelled from a mere several thousand to tens of millions.
      • They are obviously becoming the dominant force within the Origin / Sol System.
      • They are harming their ultimate goals by continuing to kill humans and destroying military assets of Grineer, Corpus, and Infested, which otherwise could be used against the Sentients (very "Game of Thrones" -esque with the "white walkers" vs all of Westeros)
      • The Tenno need a leader to unite the various forces of the Origin System, and reach out diplomatically to their enemies.  This could also lead to a new mission handler to replace Orchid.  Ordis, any syndicate leader, or even former enemy bosses (who survived / were cloned back to life) could fill this role. 
    • It is becoming clear that Tenno have a limited "shared consciousness...possibly some sort of "convergence" or "focus" through the Void, where they can experience key experiences in a personal way.
      • This explains how 33 million Tenno experience the events of the Second Dream and other quests as if they were the only ones....despite the lore explicitly showing that the Tenno are numerous and growing. (remember, only the "first" Tenno were on the Zarihman 10-0....this implies that the Orokin manufactured them after the fact, too).
    • There is another layer of secrecy to what the Tenno are.
      • The Tenno "lost their memories" of the Old War.  I propose that our Tenno were never even there.
        • Our Tenno are literally the "Void entities" that live withing the un-aging teenager-like bodies that we "summon" at will.
      • The Helmet of the Lotus is able to temporarily take control of or cause hallucinations in the Tenno
        • The Apostasy Prologue and the Chimera Prologue cause the player to lose control (lose consciousness?) when activated, and we appear in a random place on Lua.
        • This implies that something else has control
  • Helminth
    • We see something new in the Chimera Prologue: Chimerization of "human" and "sentient" body parts.
    • The Helminth Infirmary maintains our warframes....and has the ability to alter their physiology (the inoculation) 
    • Helminth, when he is strengthened, may be able to chimerize our warframes with:
      • Sentient parts (the Sentient arm weapon we've seen shown off in the past)
      • Other warframes (mixing powers and capabilities between different frames...just like Zanuka)
      • Other factions (perhaps Infested or robotic body parts, like Solaris United's heads)
    • Helminth knows more than the Tenno about what the Tenno are.
      • Nidus, for whatever reason, is familiar to Helminth
      • The Operators are again called "Void Demons" and are feared.
    • Helminth may allow for the "construction" of "Zaw Warframes"
      • Different body parts have different stats and powers.
      • This has already been done with Zanuka
      • We have seen that Warframes can be "constructed" in various ways...out of bodies that appear human or are human
        • Umbra WAS human....but human bodies are cheap in this universe, and we ever can reach into the Void to copy/paste the very soul (oro) of a dead man (Umbra) and fully rebuild him....mind, body and soul
          • If we can do this, it explains how many enemy bosses can keep coming back from what looks like perma-death.
      • What else have we been protecting in those "warframe cryopods" all this time if not non-sentient human bodies ready to be made into warframes, or cut up and harvested to repair warframes?
  • The Origin System and the Scale of Battle
    • Warframe has been mainly about small special ops teams doing swift strikes up until now.
    • The lore (Mag Prime's Codex entry, for one...others as well) demonstrates that Tenno were used in pitched battles during the time of the Old War.
    • With the release of "The New War," we will see a MASSIVE increase in scale, leading to almost a "Battlefield: Warframe" style of combat
      • Expect "combined arms" battle, utilizing those mentioned "potential allies" (Grineer under the Queens, Corpus under their various executives, Infested under Phorids or an unknown "commander," and even Corrupted under an immortal Vor...not to mention our syndicate allies) lending their forces in pitched battles against the Sentients
      • We've already seen Alad V stand with the Tenno against the Sentients...expect Alad V to take a leading role in support of the Tenno, and to mutually benefit from it greatly.
    • We will soon see NPC Tenno characters
      • The Tenno need leaders amongst themselves.  So far, Rell is basically the only NPC Tenno we've met....we'll probably see some step up to leadership now that the Lotus is gone.
      • Non-playable allied warframes that provide non-combat or low-intensity combat roles that aren't gameplay friendly (scouting, command and control, teraforming, etc) could be utilized by these Tenno and their subordinates.
    • Tenno will be produced once again from human children
      • A point of lore that many people miss is that only the first Tenno were or the Zarhiman 10-0.  The Orokin produced so many of them that they formalized their schools, created massive support infrastructures to make them viable (orbiters, reservoirs, copies of Ordis, landers, archwings, their vast panopoly, etc).
      • The process apparently isn't the worst thing, and their may even be "willing recruits" in a Jedi Order kind of way among the children of Cetus, Fortuna, and other cities.
    • The entire system is on a war footing, and ready to be lead by a unifying, dominatingly strong third party leader....one from the Tenno
      • While the obsession of the Corpus, the xenophobia of the Grineer, the voraciousness of the Infested, and the mindlessness of the Corrupted won't necessarily be disposed of, we have seen the Tenno ally in some capacity with at least two of these factions....Vey Hek has even at times shown admiration for the battle prowess of the Tenno
      • Without the Tenno, even the combined forces of the Sol System would likely get wrecked by the Sentients...and they all know it.
      • The Tenno have potential ambassador options for every faction
        • Grineer: Vay Hek himself....he seemed quite happy to give the Tenno the Brakk back in the day (before my time, but I found his dialog quite telling)
        • Corpus: Several....Alad V would be my top choice because I love the dude, but Glast, Solaris United, or even a profit-enticed Nef Anyo could rally the Corpus to the defense of the Sol System.
        • Infested: A strengthened Helminth from one of the Orbiters, or from a refuge on Lua, could speak with the already "peace-seeking" Infested and convince them to point their hoards in the right direction
        • Corrupted: The only choice is Vor, as he still has his sanity thanks to the special super Void Key he has (the Janus Key)...he's torn between his xenophobia and his new station within the masses of Corrupted....when he gets a better hold on what his Janus Key is, he's likely to become the entire faction's leader.
        • All: Ballas, now regretful of his betrayal and his naivete, could redeem himself by taking on the role of the "Grand Commander of the Origin System Forces."
          • I could see him doing quite well in this role.
  • Railjack
    • Railjack is interesting from a military perspective...it's a warship that carries its own solar rail, and possibly lays solar rails for other ships (such as Orbiters) to follow in from behind.
    • Railjack is a spearhead unit, likely capable of "Void Steath" similarly to Orbiters and Landers, meaning they won't necessarily get "destroyed," but rather "sent back into the Void" if defeated in combat.
    • Railjack is an intrinsically offensive and interstellar vessel.
      • All other factions will likely have to follow the Tenno forces into battle in the Tau Ceti System, as no known solar rails exist connecting the two star systems presently
        • Railjack may lead to a revival of the "Solar Rails" type gameplay.  Rather than clans competing for solar rails against other players, clans will instead gain benefits and detriments for allowing the various frienemy factions to utilize their solar rails.
        • Specter Regiments would be used in battles against assaulting Sentients, or to uncover infiltrated Mimic saboteurs
        • PvP is the "Bane of Gameplay"
    • Railjack is as much a "cruiser" class ship as it is a "gunboat.:  Expect the Railjacks to provide orbital fire support, and possibly even to launch heavy-equipment carrying drop pods....perhaps Tenno mecha for that "Titanfall" style tactical augmentation?
  • Ordis
    • He's a bro
    • We want more of him
    • He's probably the ship cepholon of all 30-something million Tenno....it would be cool to see him acknowledge separate instances of himself at some point.
    • I'd love to see him effecting the battle with Ordis-controlled fightercraft or the like in the skyboxes or backgrounds of missions.
    • Where was he during this quest?  The Lander was in any conceivable comms range up until you go through the portal...but he was oddly silent.

Well, that's everything lore-wise I was able to synthesize from this quest at this time.  We'll soon be going to the Tau Ceti System, and possibly other star systems where war resources can be gathered.  Expect a new Star Chart soon, and expect the return of Solar Rails with the launch of Railjack.  Conventional warfare weapons (tanks, fighters, allied non-Tenno infantry squads, etc) will likely join into the fun with the invasion of the Origin / Solar System, and the counter-attack into the Tau-Ceti System.  Morgulis and Ballas will likely be reunited at some point after his rescue and greater exploration of her helmet.  Expect stories from this point to reflect the Tenno as the new anarchic (every Tenno governs his own ship and affairs) hegemonic (so dominating that other great powers are enticed to follow them) power uniting the Sol System, and creating a WWII style USA-USSR type rough but grand alliance.  Further, expect that the Tenno's numbers and individual immortality will become a further story point (as it was in "The War Within," but expanded).  An explanation as to how every Tenno experiences certain key events would also be appreciated, but it's such a trope that I expect it'll just be handwaved....unless we see a "Third Dream" scenario.

As a side note on the numbers of the Tenno as a people, even if there were only a few dozen, given their capabilities they should have conquered the entirety of the Origin system by this point in the story.  They basically can't be opposed, even by the best tech and troops any enemy has to offer.  They destroy entire starships in tiny, lightning fast boarding actions.  They can gain free reign over even the Grineer capital...at will.  Regardless of how many Grineer or Corpus exist, eventually they would fold to the will of a few dozen immortal super soldiers....warrior gods in all but name.  Religions have been based on less.  However, it seems clear that the canon number of Tenno is in the tens of millions, reflecting player account numbers, and more realistic for any military program that could have won "The Old War" as the Orokin would have engineered it.  The recent Relay reconstruction event even alluded to how many Tenno there are, and Ordis noted that they exist in real-time when he sent us the "Dexcalibur" skin this past March...."Five years have passed since the *first* Tenno were awakened" (which leads to an off-topic question of "how are they still children? Do their Void-based bodies no longer age?).  From an effectiveness standpoint, @[DE]Rebecca said it herself when she said that less than 2% of Tenno missions fail.  Plot-wise, it simply makes sense that the Tenno would become the leaders that the Arbiters of Hexis think they should become.  And to place some context on how strong any given Tenno is...I would estimate that if something like forty Tenno entered Earth orbit today, and every weapon of every nation were employed against them (including nukes), the Tenno would win.  They're too powerful not to recognize from a story perspective, if their military capabilities were to be taken seriously within said lore.  Thus, the implications of ALL of this info regarding the strength of the Tenno faction reflects upon this quest in saying "mass invasion, and new hard-counters to Tenno should be expected in the upcoming quests.

Anyway, I've gotten really broad in my ponderings on this quest.  My new sword is still several hours away, and I'm yet to try out an Arbitration.  If anyone actually reads my wall of text, let me know what you think.

Edited by GunRaptor9000
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I think you boil it down to motivations... the ones jumping out at me the most in this are Ballas being in a vengeful mood, and the doppelganger not being able to contain his excitement... there are literally moments when your chasing him that he's bouncing up and down like a little kid so excited they are trying not to pee.  Why?  

To me - we have no solid connection between Ballas and the Doppelganger - from Ballas's perspective - he doesn't even know he exists - so they aren't allies - the Doppelganger is not I think - leading you to his ally, he's up to mischief. 

If you look at the list of potential combatants historically - in the time period of the old war - it was Sentients vs Orokin - everything else was at best a sub-faction.  Then in modern times, in an everyone vs everyone scenario - you have The Grineer, The Corpus, The infested, The Sentients, and the Tenno... we went from two major factions to 5 factions.  The Sentients being the most advanced are arguably the most powerful.

So - suppose you are an extra-dimensional entity that wants to invade this dimension.. whats a boy to do?  Can't have the Sentients win a quick decisive victory - so you undermine their plans - provide a powerful weapon to the Tenno... after all - isn't it better that all your enemies grind themselves down into smaller and less powerful bits when your ready to make your appearance?

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Hm...

My theory is that the Lotus we know isn't Natah. Or, at least, not fully. I think that the Lotus we know is one of Natah's fragments that somehow gained a degree of independence, most likely intentionally, but it failed in practice. How? Kuva.

We know that at least one brand of the stuff, the Temple Kuva produced by the Unum is capable of healing Sentient's ability to reproduce after a void trip. It's possible regular Kuva might have this same ability, but severely lessened. Not enough to restore a Sentient's ability to bear young, but enough to implant a fragment with elements of a personality. Possibly one that already exists, or did exist in a high-ranking Orokin, one who was most likely allowed to use Continuity, but forbidden due to how she died. Implant a little Margulis into a fragment, and you get a fragment that can mimic the Tenno's mother, and Ballas's lover.

Most likely, that was the deal they gave Ballas: "Give us the Kuva, and we will not only spare you, we will grant you your lost love." A high ranking Dax friend of Ballas finds out, and Ballas turns him into Umbra. Ballas reveals the secret of the Tenno, and gives them the Kuva so that they can produce a facsimile of Margulis, who they send to deal with the Tenno. All goes according to plan - Hunhow is 'defeated', Natah's main body retreats to Tau, leaving only 'Margulis' who leads the Tenno into the final sequence - destroy the rest of the Orokin, then destroy the Tenno, reawaken Hunhow and then either conquer the system or head home, depending on their goals.

However, something went wrong, and the Fragment somehow gained attributes of Margulis. Possibly her Oro/soul, or possibly just that Margulis's personality didn't allow for slaughter of innocent children (even if it was just fine casting out Rell.), or maybe simply because Margulis is a free-thinker. Regardless, something caused the Fragment to more fully scede from Natah than was intended - stopping the sequence and betraying the Sentients. 'Killing' the Natah within her, and becoming the Lotus. She adopts a philosophy of "Dream not of what you are, but of what you want to be." To not be content with what you are, but to become more.

Fast forward to the events of the game, where Hunhow reawakens. Recognising Natah's fragment, and believing her to still be Natah, he communes with her. She panicks, abandons the Tenno, comes back with renewed passion and promptly screws up royally by revealing the Tenno's location to Hunhow. After several other knocks to her self-confidence, including what she wants to be. Remember, she is shocked that Margulis cast out, declaring that she doesn't believe it. Eventually, Ballas decides that enough is enough, and that he wants his lover back. Perhaps he sees corruption in Natah, or otherwise finds his new situation undesirable. He plays along, and visits Lotus. He reconnects her with Natah, possibly preying on her insecurities. Ballas plans to use this to bring the Tenno to him, and get them on his side.

But things go wrong.

First, Lotus herself acts in the name of the Tenno, incompletely fragmenting herself to leave behind a part of herself not under Natah's influence - the Helmet.

The second, is the War Within. The Tenno become more powerful, reawakening their ability to use transference innately

Third, Umbra breaks loose, and realising that Umbra's capacity to kill Sentients very effectively could throw a wrench in his scheme, Ballas helps Natah dispose of him. But, thanks to 'wrong things' 1 and 2, the Tenno know about Umbra and are able rebuild him and enter transference with him and thus are turned against Ballas. This, and the War Within, is what Ballas refers to when he mentions how we cast aside a potential ally. By us taking part in the Sacrifice, we spoiled his plan to betray the Sentients, and got him fused with a sentient, producing the Chimera.

Finally - The Man in the Wall. I've got a fair bit of theory evidence behind what I'm about to say, but that'll bloat this post and for the most part isn't revealed in Chimera Prologue. I'll discuss it if anybody wants me to. But, skipping to the conclusion, I think it's a symbiotic/parasitic (I tend to the first due to the strength and powers he gives us) entity that feeds of emotion, off of will. It infects organisms, grants them strength and the will to fight. The Tenno somehow resisted the typical effects, however, and thus gained even more power, as well as feeding back our other emotions to the Man. Rell especially - holding the Man back for thousands of years caused the Man to take on aspects of Rell's personality. Specifically, Rell's kindness and longing for companionship, as well as his rage and confusion. Mixed up, that produces the Man in the Wall we know today. I think he's on our side, although I don't think he wants to be all that pleasant about it. He wants us strong and powerful not because he wants us to win, but because he now recognises that by 'nurturing' the Tenno, he can gain more from them. He can also gain more from us when we fight, where our emotions are raised - so he leads to Ballas, leads us down the road to the New War.

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9 часов назад, (XB1)AntiCaesar сказал:

But which other war machines do the Orokin have that we know of?

L - logic. Anything to participate in a war in their place, just not sentient, literal drones like Corpuse has but more advanced. It was specifically said right after that that those machines "rebelled" they created warframes because they were "forced to older means" and specifically mentioned by Ordis that they no longer used machines after they rebelled so he can't be a robot/AI as he always thought.

Do yalll even listen yourself to the thing you're trying to discuss?

Edited by -Temp0-
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Just a theory about natahs motivation:

She didnt want us to awaken from the second dream cuz void powers can kill sentients.

She didnt want us to learn to control our void powers as seen in the war within.

After the chains of harrow natah knew the tenno were out of her control so she decided to play with ballas instead and our blue guy was decieved.

Conclusion: natah was a sentient all along who played the tenno and ballas. The tenno were drawn to her cuz of margulis and she took advantage of that. She was actually preparing for the sentients to take over the origin but knew that hunhows straight kill em all strategy would fail terribly so she betrayed him.

Edited by (PS4)jjahsan
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One thing I think a lot of people have missed with ballas turning into a sentient is...

they're turning him into a sentient.

The big thing with the sentients has always been that they can't reproduce once they make the trip through the void.  Ballas's little transformation might be a test for a way of mass converting humans (orokins are just a human variant) into sentients, allowing them to "reproduce".  That's one way to win the war permanently.  Just turn all your enemies into your own soldiers.

That is NOT good.

This might also be the main reason ballas is helping, and offering the sentient slayer sword.  He knows what they're planning on doing.

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I figure the sentients are weaponizing him, just like humans (frames and Tenno) were weaponized. Ballas is a intel coup for them.

Literally they terrorformed his ass.

Karma a *@##$ and tools should not complain.

keep in mind Natah’s form, which was Lotus wedged into a sentient container “body” suggests “lotus” isn’t completely integrated. Her hands are in a prayer gesture and the sentient arms themselves look like a scarf (religious) offering. Weird imagery.

Rell’s specters were fragments of his emotions torn off by transference. I have to wonder if all the specters are not man in the Wall but “lotus”.  That helmet is hers (sentient or Orokin). 

She was wired into something via that helmet and  Ballas freed her from her wires with that creepy arm of his. That arm was used to command Umbra, a transference prosthetisis. So “lotus” stuck in a loop too?

Maiming it all the more fitting because it was prolly Ballas that plugged her in.

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I figure the sentients are weaponizing him, just like humans (frames and Tenno) were weaponized. Ballas is a intel coup for them.

Literally they terrorformed his ass.

Karma a *@##$ and tools should not complain.

keep in mind Natah’s form, which was Lotus wedged into a sentient container “body” suggests “lotus” isn’t completely integrated. Her hands are in a prayer gesture and the sentient arms themselves look like a scarf (religious) offering. Weird imagery.

Rell’s specters were fragments of his emotions torn off by transference. I have to wonder if all the specters are not man in the Wall but “lotus”.  That helmet is hers (sentient or Orokin). 

She was wired into something via that helmet and  Ballas freed her from her wires with that creepy arm of his. That arm was used to command Umbra, a transference prosthetisis. So “lotus” stuck in a loop too?

Maiming it all the more fitting because it was prolly Ballas that plugged her in.

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On 2018-10-12 at 4:20 PM, DeathDweller said:

He is the void.So he is motivated either from curiosity, disturbance for he is some sort of Satan getting out of his prison which would imply a God also but that last part would stretch things a bit too far

Not really.  All living things seek to grow and multiply.  Tenno are likely Void Gates. So whether TMITW is the VOID or something from within it, we are a way out...and a way to grow or expand it’s power and reach into our Universe.

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7 hours ago, (PS4)Geadmon said:

One thing I think a lot of people have missed with ballas turning into a sentient is...

they're turning him into a sentient.

The big thing with the sentients has always been that they can't reproduce once they make the trip through the void.  Ballas's little transformation might be a test for a way of mass converting humans (orokins are just a human variant) into sentients, allowing them to "reproduce".  That's one way to win the war permanently.  Just turn all your enemies into your own soldiers.

That is NOT good.

This might also be the main reason ballas is helping, and offering the sentient slayer sword.  He knows what they're planning on doing.

Imagine upgraded Sentient Clone-Drones that all look like Ballas Coming at you.

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12 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Not really.  All living things seek to grow and multiply.  Tenno are likely Void Gates. So whether TMITW is the VOID or something from within it, we are a way out...and a way to grow or expand it’s power and reach into our Universe.

Is he even alive though? Given that he's a void entity, that term might not necessarily apply to him.

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On 2018-10-12 at 11:29 PM, RamPuppy said:

I think you boil it down to motivations... the ones jumping out at me the most in this are Ballas being in a vengeful mood, and the doppelganger not being able to contain his excitement... there are literally moments when your chasing him that he's bouncing up and down like a little kid so excited they are trying not to pee.  Why?  

To me - we have no solid connection between Ballas and the Doppelganger - from Ballas's perspective - he doesn't even know he exists - so they aren't allies - the Doppelganger is not I think - leading you to his ally, he's up to mischief. 

If you look at the list of potential combatants historically - in the time period of the old war - it was Sentients vs Orokin - everything else was at best a sub-faction.  Then in modern times, in an everyone vs everyone scenario - you have The Grineer, The Corpus, The infested, The Sentients, and the Tenno... we went from two major factions to 5 factions.  The Sentients being the most advanced are arguably the most powerful.

So - suppose you are an extra-dimensional entity that wants to invade this dimension.. whats a boy to do?  Can't have the Sentients win a quick decisive victory - so you undermine their plans - provide a powerful weapon to the Tenno... after all - isn't it better that all your enemies grind themselves down into smaller and less powerful bits when your ready to make your appearance?

I think you are right about the void entity - trying to understand his motivations as 'human ones' is wrong. His motivations are far beyond our understanding, we can't really know why he lead us to Ballas. But it could just be for fun, or part of some grand plan that is far beyond our comprehension.

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