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The very simple reason I'm disappointed with Arbitrations


(PSN)dewhiskeys-uk
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I'm not going to have any conversation with those who borrow slogan from random dudes of the internet ("actually play the game"), or those who can't catch the difference between real life (chores) and game (grinding), or generally, people trolling around. Feel free to try me, but i thought it was worth to give you an heads-up, before you waste your time.

That being said...

Never said difficult. I said I don't like. Although many try to hide the frustration of being unsuccesful in some challenges, saying that they don't like them, some people do really mean that they don't like something. It can actually happen to like most of the game, not all of it. True story.

If you genuinely can't see the difference (that i can see) between junctions requirements and completing the star chart to access arbitration, here follows my take.

Junction requirements are a way for the developers to be sure i experience the variety of content/missions/enemies/bosses and/or lore that they have created for me. By the time you get to Pluto/Eris/Sedna you should have experienced almost anything. You have all the tools you need to efficiently grind / gear up for anything that they can trow at you. So much so you could go for hours into survival/defence/intercept, without completing the star chart (How's that "non-elite"?)

A requirement for an endgame mode represent an aspect of the game you should have mastered in order to experience what comes next. Like MR to use later weapons or rivens (i.e. please try other weapons before you try this). There is no easy way in warframe to do that for endgame missions in general (i get that) because the number of forma you used or stat percentages do not really tell your ability to stand end-game.

Completing the star chart is not a measure of anything: it just says you played all the missions, which are always the same, different enemies, different starting level, different tile set. On the other hand, by forcing me to complete it you only force me to play an accessory game mode like archwing, which I already tried when you asked me to (junctions), and that I already decided I don't like. Also, on top of that, there is no archwing arbitration (AFAIK): so why do I need to play a game mode that I don't need to master, in order to play what comes next? Beside, I could just skip the archwing arbitration mission and play the next one.

Should Developers put requirements (in general) for such things in games? Yes: to limit excessive grinding, to prepare you for tougher challenges, and many other reasons.

Of all the requirements, forcing me to play something i don't like (On my side, I could also throw interceptions in there... Definitely not my thing), or something that is not even relevant, is disappointing. Do you like all of it and play all of it? ... Good for you, i guess.

Now, say that i find the people without paying any plat and do all the missions (taxi please!)... I'm gonna do them once, and never touch them again... Because i still don't like them. What have you (as developer) gained from this?

We'll see.

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15 hours ago, fishworshipper said:

...So you don't like Arbitrations because they require you to actually play the game?

What you did here is an argumentative fallacy known as a straw-man, in which you belittle someone's argument through the use of an illogical and inaccurate portrayal of their words. His primary concern is simply that Arbitrations are gated behind a non skill/experience-oriented boundary, which makes little sense considering the gamemode's supposed purpose as an endgame. Personally, I'm MR20 with over 600 hours of gameplay, and I still haven't technically completed the star-chart. Classic missions are oudated, unrewarding, and boring; especially if you're a higher level player. I'm not concerned that I need to complete them, but they certainly aren't the kind of content which I'd prefer to be playing.

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7 hours ago, Valmarr said:

What you did here is an argumentative fallacy known as a straw-man, in which you belittle someone's argument through the use of an illogical and inaccurate portrayal of their words. His primary concern is simply that Arbitrations are gated behind a non skill/experience-oriented boundary, which makes little sense considering the gamemode's supposed purpose as an endgame. Personally, I'm MR20 with over 600 hours of gameplay, and I still haven't technically completed the star-chart. Classic missions are oudated, unrewarding, and boring; especially if you're a higher level player. I'm not concerned that I need to complete them, but they certainly aren't the kind of content which I'd prefer to be playing.

I see your point. The issue is, literally nothing in Warframe requires actual skill except for Rivens, which would make an even worse gating mechanism. Furthermore, having to complete the entire star chart is an experience-oriented boundary. Having to play every mission guarantees at least a basic understanding of every mission type, and that sort of experience is the only fundamental difference between veteran and new players. 

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Why you so eager about a Mode that actually require your skill and brain ? Luckly they didn't even WANT YOU TO SOLO EVERY mission on the chart which it suppose to be.

Many MR above 12 join in the Alert and DIE DIE DIE, god even MR 20 above. I don't get why DE made so many revivals on other missions so now the Alert I join kept f*ck up.

And please 1 hour per new alert cycle ? You can have that but for a good alert to save time will need to have more waiting time.

They just join and die .... or extract when almost at Rotation C, super $&*&*#(%&s with MR 15 ABOVE.

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2 hours ago, Precursor1997 said:

Why you so eager about a Mode that actually require your skill and brain ? Luckly they didn't even WANT YOU TO SOLO EVERY mission on the chart which it suppose to be.

Many MR above 12 join in the Alert and DIE DIE DIE, god even MR 20 above. I don't get why DE made so many revivals on other missions so now the Alert I join kept f*ck up.

And please 1 hour per new alert cycle ? You can have that but for a good alert to save time will need to have more waiting time.

They just join and die .... or extract when almost at Rotation C, super $&*&*#(%&s with MR 15 ABOVE.

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top-friggin-kek mate.

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On 2018-10-12 at 3:50 PM, (PS4)dewhiskeys-uk said:

Before today, I could have said to anybody:

"You can play, for free, an astonishing amount of content, in any way you want: any combination of warframes, weapons, companions and squad members. Have fun the way you like"

Today I have to add:

"Except the new end-game mode. For that, you have to complete all the missions in the star chart, including those you didn't like, but that you could skip because it never mattered for your progression."

Basically, to access a new game mode, i need to play the game the way you want, not the way I like. I have to play something I don't like, to play something i might like. This is not going to make me like those missions any more: indeed I now hate them even more because they are going to turn a (so far) pleasant experience into a painful one, just to try something new.

I'm disappointed because, to my eyes, this is a change in direction for one of the key features of the game.

You could have put this mode behind a MR requirement, like 16, 17 or 18. It's high, but I can get there any way I like, and that would have been somewhat an indication of how much content I experienced, and how much I am prepared to face the arbitration. Completing the star chart does not mean anything, does not even prepare you for sorties.

I don't mean this to be rude...but this is an extremely pathetic complaint. I mean wow. Literally nothing has changed about the game except there is now more stuff to do.

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On 2018-10-12 at 5:07 PM, JesterTheNight said:

Guys, star chart nodes don't give mastery anymore. This changed when junctions were introduced in the game, now junctions give 1000 mastery points instead of completing all nodes for mastery.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Junction

Not true. Starchart nodes still give Mastery. The reason Junctions also give mastery is because they removed a bunch of nodes from the Starchart when Junctions were introduced, so they needed to make up for the lost amount of Mastery. To get full Mastery, you need to do all the Starchart nodes and all the Junctions.

https://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Mastery

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On ‎2018‎-‎10‎-‎13 at 11:04 AM, withinmyself said:

I was actually extremely happy that they had the 100% requirement as opposed to Master Rank.  Because someone can fly through those ranks without really taking in all the content this game has to offer.  I've started looking at peoples actual game time and I was astonished to find multiple accounts at MR15 and above that were around 150 hours.  I had been playing for 400 hours when I was still at MR10.  But like you said this game lets you play how you want and you played how you wanted to play. 

But endgame material has got to have different standards.  The most proud I was at anything was the day I got my Synoid Gammacor after reaching level 5 with Sephalon Suda.  Something that seemed absolutely impossible when I first started playing.  I just reached rank 4 on Cetus which seemed impossible just 2 weeks ago.  That was a hell of a grind.  As it should be.   And I just got 100% of the star chart done right before this new material. Also an incredible undertaking but worth every minute.

Moving up your MR is as simple as putting another weapon in your secondary and melee and just forgetting about it.  You don't really do anything for MR.  I dunno.  Probably not the most popular opinion but that's how I've felt since I started playing this game.  Especially since when you start a new public squad the first thing you do is look at MR and form an uninformed opinion.  MR20? He must be amazing!!  MR6?  Laughable...and look he's playing Mag.  Idiot.  5 minutes later the MR20 guy dies once and leaves while Mag rakes in the most damage.   

It's not like you weren't having fun before there was something you couldn't have.  You can still play your own way, nobody is taking that from you.

  Agreed because MR level is just a level and the true endgame is based on the experience and the requirement for the new end game mode is acceptable.

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5 hours ago, Dobby_D said:

  Agreed because MR level is just a level and the true endgame is based on the experience and the requirement for the new end game mode is acceptable.

Like Bruce Lee said : I don't fear who can do 10000 diffirent type of punches, I fear who did 1 type of punch 10000 times.

MR some time is not Mastery Rank, is more like Morron Rank - Mindless Rank - Mugging Rank.

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14 hours ago, Dobby_D said:

  Agreed because MR level is just a level and the true endgame is based on the experience and the requirement for the new end game mode is acceptable.

Yet, clearing the star chart is not a measure of your experience either: you can still go for hours into endless missions without clearing the star chart.

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I think the only necessary thing is for some sort of tip to be given to new players that clearing every node will give them access to the mode. It's not a problem when you're just starting out, because you won't be geared for it and you can clear the nodes as you go along. When you have 50 nodes to clear because they all piled up, that's a bit annoying. The simple answer is just don't let it pile up.

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Hmmmm

I am a little upset that i have to go back and do the archwing missions, upset not because they are making this a requirement, upset because i just cant seem to get the hang of the darned thing.  More time and practice in a game mode i hate.

But im not complaining.  Well a little, but i get it.  I always thought it was a bit silly to have all these missions i could just "skip" and i sort of knew this day was coming.  Its almost like "hey! we put a lot of work into designing archwing, now play it".

My favourite game of all time is FFX.  This game, omg, what can i say.  The stuff you had to do to unlock other stuff was insane lol.

Chocobo race?

Lightning dodge?

The damned butterfly hunt??

Blitzball?  I actually ended up becoming really good at this.  In the beginning i HATED it.

 

So i get it, not looking forward to it but i get it.

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On 2018-10-13 at 5:19 AM, -NightmareMoon- said:

I really like this requirement because you will be paired with people that actually give a damn about progression and are most likely good players, I have run this new mode a couple of times and every time, everyone was doing their job properly, I almost shed a tear.

Sorry OP, but you are just a lazy bum that dont deserve doing this mode.

being "good" or highish MR doesnt mean you are modded and geared, you can clear all nodes as low as MR5 and can easily have a chunk of core mods not maxed, if even they even own them all at all and still have access to arbitrations, it just means we bothered unlocking all the nodes we previously ignored.

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On 2018-10-13 at 12:58 AM, RoninJed said:

So your complaining about new players not having instant access to the the new end-game mode...did...did I read that right hehe.

you mean like POE, that was at the time intended "end-game" to get arcanes and fight godzilla yet they still allowed newbies in there to access the new content.

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On 2018-10-13 at 3:09 PM, (PS4)dewhiskeys-uk said:

Junction requirements are a way for the developers to be sure i experience the variety of content/missions/enemies/bosses and/or lore that they have created for me. By the time you get to Pluto/Eris/Sedna you should have experienced almost anything. You have all the tools you need to efficiently grind / gear up for anything that they can trow at you. So much so you could go for hours into survival/defence/intercept, without completing the star chart (How's that "non-elite"?)

quick correction there, junctions are just another forced time gate to make sure you dont clear the entire starmap in 1-2 days like we could in 2013.

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Clearing the solar system gives mastery which is enough reason for why I did it a few years ago. Warframe is a grinding game, haven't your realised that yet? It's a collect em all game. OP you say you have no time to grind cos chores, real life etc and yet you have the time to come on here and write a lengthy complaint as well as then replying to comments in your thread. Hell the time you've wasted here you could've easily cleared a planet.

I look forward to reading your complaint thread about Arbitration alerts being "too hard" once you finally clear the starchart. 

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Yes, please, MR0 should be able to join Elite Alerts. I miss the experience from Tridolons, where me and a Trinity 2 man it, because an MR0 and MR3 silently watch and won't leave.

I am sure if there's no gating that there would be no failed runs because of leeching newcomers who die in the first minute.

I have a better Idea, if they are under MR 5 they can be ressed. So they have a reason to call you names if you don't. Wouldn't that be great.

MR25 would be a great idea for gating by the way. Much less effort than clearing the star chart.

Thank god there are no people who don't like farming MR and stay at 14-15 who would say the same as you.

You are definitely not another whiny kid, you bring up great points.

 

It should be gated and it is in a minimal way. I actually appreciate that all nodes matter for progression now. But then again in our age there must be at least one flower triggered by anything new or else it wouldn't be right, would it. Although I'm ok with adding an either/or requirement. Star chart or MR25, lets see what you'd do first.

 

One last thing. If you're far enough into the game it should be trivial for you to clear it, semi-afk. I had 17 nodes and it took me a little over an hour to finish them, most were defection and DS. If you actually struggle to clear something on, say, Neptune, solo or not, you don't have a place in the Elite Alerts anyway.

 

 

Edited by Ver1dian
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On 2018-10-12 at 11:54 PM, Melanholic7 said:

Ehm. And if u dont love some kind of mission u wont even pass early planets,cause u want open junction. so what?? lol. 

its soooooo hard to close remaining locations /s

i did 30 of them today, while watching films. Soo hard. 

how many films did you watch? lets call it Y.

now clearly your fine with that , but  by your own admission you spent Y x 1.5 hours today doing something so boring you had to do a second activity outside of the game just to give you something to pay attention to.

are you finished? 

Some engaging test maybe alike mastery rank up in style (if not form!) could of been a good gate , a prove your worth type of thing. but to date i havent seen anyone say they enjoyed this time sink , thought it was a good idea or in any way prepared someone for the content it is gating. i havent seen anyone dispute it being lazy and bad , the defence has been "i can tolerate this level of time wasting so you can to!"

so you have free time and a tolerance with boredom thats great and all , and i can understand your willing to do this. but for the life of me i can not see 

How is this a good idea?

 

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