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(PS4)dewhiskeys-uk

The very simple reason I'm disappointed with Arbitrations

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My take on Arbitrations: they're a good set of missions that separates the casual folks, the regular vets, and the scraping by wanna-bes. I'm probably gonna get flak for it, but honestly they're a good way to separate those that just want to get through the mission for the loots with minimal efforts and those that actually know what builds work beyond the standard "meta" a majority of the populace shepherd themselves into. Unlike Eidolon runs where the chances of getting a poorly geared player is a common trend in publics, Arbitration seem to have a much more restrictive or filtration system propagated by it requirements. Ive always told players to clear the star chart, because you never know when you're gonna get an alert that you might need and you don't have access to, therefore you've got to ask or beg for a taxi. Lo and behold, we now have elite alerts. 

 

And the name speaks for itself. Elite alerts shouldn't be accessible to everyone coming right out of the gate. The main issue for a lot of players is the need to be able to rush everything to access the end game stuff and as of late DE has been making a lot of content available earlier and earlier, which not only hurts the later game content but also hurts veterans. Clearing the star chart isn't a monumental task either, but it does require some time and investment to clear through. With the level restriction of a max frame with enemies scaled to a tier 2 sortie right at the beginning, and given no second chances at lives, it challenges players to build optimally and that's mostly achievable (if not mainly) by folks who've invested a lot of time into the game. 

 

Is it a fix-all for the game? Not by any means no. I've already seen people looking for specific squad comps in recruiting and it really doesn't need it if everyone understands the objectives and has an understanding of what the mission entails. It gives vets something to do that isn't mass slaughtering easy mobs, which in turns ruins the experience for new players, while giving new people a goal to reach aside from mindlessly grinding. Can they be cheesed?  Probably. But hey, it does compromise on challenge and decent rewards which have been major complaints for a long time coming now. 

 

Is warframe still a  good free to play game? Absolutely. I'd still say it far outshines some other games where the grinding is 100x more abysmal and boring (looking at the likes of many Asian MMOs out there, FFXIV  included). You are still in control of what weapons you gear with, what frames you take, hell even how you look. Does it have its faulty points? Sure, every game has their own quirks and Warframe is no exception to that.

 

To note: you kind of said it yourself. It's an end-game mode, which means there's gotta be something you have to sacrifice to reach that end-point. I hated completing a lot of the nodes on the map prior to the star chart even having any other effect other than exp, but I still did it because it mattered for progression, whether directly or indirectly by way of affecting future missions. Warframe is also a bit of a completionist game, gotta catch em all sort of deal as well and while most players are content with what they have, it would grind the gears of OCD players to be missing that one node or have a 9/10 Primed Pressure Point. Stuff like that is also what helps keep the game going, not just a constant "what's new and I can just have fun with?" it's better for DE to put in something new that takes time to get to, otherwise they'll face players taking less than a couple of weeks to clear through the new stuff and waiting months for more updates. 

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I'm not going to have any conversation with those who borrow slogan from random dudes of the internet ("actually play the game"), or those who can't catch the difference between real life (chores) and game (grinding), or generally, people trolling around. Feel free to try me, but i thought it was worth to give you an heads-up, before you waste your time.

That being said...

Never said difficult. I said I don't like. Although many try to hide the frustration of being unsuccesful in some challenges, saying that they don't like them, some people do really mean that they don't like something. It can actually happen to like most of the game, not all of it. True story.

If you genuinely can't see the difference (that i can see) between junctions requirements and completing the star chart to access arbitration, here follows my take.

Junction requirements are a way for the developers to be sure i experience the variety of content/missions/enemies/bosses and/or lore that they have created for me. By the time you get to Pluto/Eris/Sedna you should have experienced almost anything. You have all the tools you need to efficiently grind / gear up for anything that they can trow at you. So much so you could go for hours into survival/defence/intercept, without completing the star chart (How's that "non-elite"?)

A requirement for an endgame mode represent an aspect of the game you should have mastered in order to experience what comes next. Like MR to use later weapons or rivens (i.e. please try other weapons before you try this). There is no easy way in warframe to do that for endgame missions in general (i get that) because the number of forma you used or stat percentages do not really tell your ability to stand end-game.

Completing the star chart is not a measure of anything: it just says you played all the missions, which are always the same, different enemies, different starting level, different tile set. On the other hand, by forcing me to complete it you only force me to play an accessory game mode like archwing, which I already tried when you asked me to (junctions), and that I already decided I don't like. Also, on top of that, there is no archwing arbitration (AFAIK): so why do I need to play a game mode that I don't need to master, in order to play what comes next? Beside, I could just skip the archwing arbitration mission and play the next one.

Should Developers put requirements (in general) for such things in games? Yes: to limit excessive grinding, to prepare you for tougher challenges, and many other reasons.

Of all the requirements, forcing me to play something i don't like (On my side, I could also throw interceptions in there... Definitely not my thing), or something that is not even relevant, is disappointing. Do you like all of it and play all of it? ... Good for you, i guess.

Now, say that i find the people without paying any plat and do all the missions (taxi please!)... I'm gonna do them once, and never touch them again... Because i still don't like them. What have you (as developer) gained from this?

We'll see.

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15 hours ago, fishworshipper said:

...So you don't like Arbitrations because they require you to actually play the game?

What you did here is an argumentative fallacy known as a straw-man, in which you belittle someone's argument through the use of an illogical and inaccurate portrayal of their words. His primary concern is simply that Arbitrations are gated behind a non skill/experience-oriented boundary, which makes little sense considering the gamemode's supposed purpose as an endgame. Personally, I'm MR20 with over 600 hours of gameplay, and I still haven't technically completed the star-chart. Classic missions are oudated, unrewarding, and boring; especially if you're a higher level player. I'm not concerned that I need to complete them, but they certainly aren't the kind of content which I'd prefer to be playing.

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right, so have u actually done the new alerts? or are u just complaining its too much work to unlock them? How can you be disappointed with Arbitrations if you haven't played them??

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7 hours ago, Valmarr said:

What you did here is an argumentative fallacy known as a straw-man, in which you belittle someone's argument through the use of an illogical and inaccurate portrayal of their words. His primary concern is simply that Arbitrations are gated behind a non skill/experience-oriented boundary, which makes little sense considering the gamemode's supposed purpose as an endgame. Personally, I'm MR20 with over 600 hours of gameplay, and I still haven't technically completed the star-chart. Classic missions are oudated, unrewarding, and boring; especially if you're a higher level player. I'm not concerned that I need to complete them, but they certainly aren't the kind of content which I'd prefer to be playing.

I see your point. The issue is, literally nothing in Warframe requires actual skill except for Rivens, which would make an even worse gating mechanism. Furthermore, having to complete the entire star chart is an experience-oriented boundary. Having to play every mission guarantees at least a basic understanding of every mission type, and that sort of experience is the only fundamental difference between veteran and new players. 

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Why you so eager about a Mode that actually require your skill and brain ? Luckly they didn't even WANT YOU TO SOLO EVERY mission on the chart which it suppose to be.

Many MR above 12 join in the Alert and DIE DIE DIE, god even MR 20 above. I don't get why DE made so many revivals on other missions so now the Alert I join kept f*ck up.

And please 1 hour per new alert cycle ? You can have that but for a good alert to save time will need to have more waiting time.

They just join and die .... or extract when almost at Rotation C, super $&*&*#(%&s with MR 15 ABOVE.

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I just wish I didn't have to do the dark sector missions.  Infested are sooooooo boring, they literally have one modus operandi - "CHARGE!"  Don't even have a foreboding atmosphere anymore.

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2 hours ago, Precursor1997 said:

Why you so eager about a Mode that actually require your skill and brain ? Luckly they didn't even WANT YOU TO SOLO EVERY mission on the chart which it suppose to be.

Many MR above 12 join in the Alert and DIE DIE DIE, god even MR 20 above. I don't get why DE made so many revivals on other missions so now the Alert I join kept f*ck up.

And please 1 hour per new alert cycle ? You can have that but for a good alert to save time will need to have more waiting time.

They just join and die .... or extract when almost at Rotation C, super $&*&*#(%&s with MR 15 ABOVE.

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top-friggin-kek mate.

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On 2018-10-12 at 3:50 PM, (PS4)dewhiskeys-uk said:

Before today, I could have said to anybody:

"You can play, for free, an astonishing amount of content, in any way you want: any combination of warframes, weapons, companions and squad members. Have fun the way you like"

Today I have to add:

"Except the new end-game mode. For that, you have to complete all the missions in the star chart, including those you didn't like, but that you could skip because it never mattered for your progression."

Basically, to access a new game mode, i need to play the game the way you want, not the way I like. I have to play something I don't like, to play something i might like. This is not going to make me like those missions any more: indeed I now hate them even more because they are going to turn a (so far) pleasant experience into a painful one, just to try something new.

I'm disappointed because, to my eyes, this is a change in direction for one of the key features of the game.

You could have put this mode behind a MR requirement, like 16, 17 or 18. It's high, but I can get there any way I like, and that would have been somewhat an indication of how much content I experienced, and how much I am prepared to face the arbitration. Completing the star chart does not mean anything, does not even prepare you for sorties.

I don't mean this to be rude...but this is an extremely pathetic complaint. I mean wow. Literally nothing has changed about the game except there is now more stuff to do.

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On 2018-10-12 at 5:07 PM, JesterTheNight said:

Guys, star chart nodes don't give mastery anymore. This changed when junctions were introduced in the game, now junctions give 1000 mastery points instead of completing all nodes for mastery.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Junction

Not true. Starchart nodes still give Mastery. The reason Junctions also give mastery is because they removed a bunch of nodes from the Starchart when Junctions were introduced, so they needed to make up for the lost amount of Mastery. To get full Mastery, you need to do all the Starchart nodes and all the Junctions.

https://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Mastery

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On ‎2018‎-‎10‎-‎13 at 11:04 AM, withinmyself said:

I was actually extremely happy that they had the 100% requirement as opposed to Master Rank.  Because someone can fly through those ranks without really taking in all the content this game has to offer.  I've started looking at peoples actual game time and I was astonished to find multiple accounts at MR15 and above that were around 150 hours.  I had been playing for 400 hours when I was still at MR10.  But like you said this game lets you play how you want and you played how you wanted to play. 

But endgame material has got to have different standards.  The most proud I was at anything was the day I got my Synoid Gammacor after reaching level 5 with Sephalon Suda.  Something that seemed absolutely impossible when I first started playing.  I just reached rank 4 on Cetus which seemed impossible just 2 weeks ago.  That was a hell of a grind.  As it should be.   And I just got 100% of the star chart done right before this new material. Also an incredible undertaking but worth every minute.

Moving up your MR is as simple as putting another weapon in your secondary and melee and just forgetting about it.  You don't really do anything for MR.  I dunno.  Probably not the most popular opinion but that's how I've felt since I started playing this game.  Especially since when you start a new public squad the first thing you do is look at MR and form an uninformed opinion.  MR20? He must be amazing!!  MR6?  Laughable...and look he's playing Mag.  Idiot.  5 minutes later the MR20 guy dies once and leaves while Mag rakes in the most damage.   

It's not like you weren't having fun before there was something you couldn't have.  You can still play your own way, nobody is taking that from you.

  Agreed because MR level is just a level and the true endgame is based on the experience and the requirement for the new end game mode is acceptable.

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5 hours ago, Dobby_D said:

  Agreed because MR level is just a level and the true endgame is based on the experience and the requirement for the new end game mode is acceptable.

Like Bruce Lee said : I don't fear who can do 10000 diffirent type of punches, I fear who did 1 type of punch 10000 times.

MR some time is not Mastery Rank, is more like Morron Rank - Mindless Rank - Mugging Rank.

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14 hours ago, Dobby_D said:

  Agreed because MR level is just a level and the true endgame is based on the experience and the requirement for the new end game mode is acceptable.

Yet, clearing the star chart is not a measure of your experience either: you can still go for hours into endless missions without clearing the star chart.

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I think the only necessary thing is for some sort of tip to be given to new players that clearing every node will give them access to the mode. It's not a problem when you're just starting out, because you won't be geared for it and you can clear the nodes as you go along. When you have 50 nodes to clear because they all piled up, that's a bit annoying. The simple answer is just don't let it pile up.

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Hmmmm

I am a little upset that i have to go back and do the archwing missions, upset not because they are making this a requirement, upset because i just cant seem to get the hang of the darned thing.  More time and practice in a game mode i hate.

But im not complaining.  Well a little, but i get it.  I always thought it was a bit silly to have all these missions i could just "skip" and i sort of knew this day was coming.  Its almost like "hey! we put a lot of work into designing archwing, now play it".

My favourite game of all time is FFX.  This game, omg, what can i say.  The stuff you had to do to unlock other stuff was insane lol.

Chocobo race?

Lightning dodge?

The damned butterfly hunt??

Blitzball?  I actually ended up becoming really good at this.  In the beginning i HATED it.

 

So i get it, not looking forward to it but i get it.

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On 2018-10-13 at 5:19 AM, -NightmareMoon- said:

I really like this requirement because you will be paired with people that actually give a damn about progression and are most likely good players, I have run this new mode a couple of times and every time, everyone was doing their job properly, I almost shed a tear.

Sorry OP, but you are just a lazy bum that dont deserve doing this mode.

being "good" or highish MR doesnt mean you are modded and geared, you can clear all nodes as low as MR5 and can easily have a chunk of core mods not maxed, if even they even own them all at all and still have access to arbitrations, it just means we bothered unlocking all the nodes we previously ignored.

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On 2018-10-13 at 12:58 AM, RoninJed said:

So your complaining about new players not having instant access to the the new end-game mode...did...did I read that right hehe.

you mean like POE, that was at the time intended "end-game" to get arcanes and fight godzilla yet they still allowed newbies in there to access the new content.

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On 2018-10-13 at 3:09 PM, (PS4)dewhiskeys-uk said:

Junction requirements are a way for the developers to be sure i experience the variety of content/missions/enemies/bosses and/or lore that they have created for me. By the time you get to Pluto/Eris/Sedna you should have experienced almost anything. You have all the tools you need to efficiently grind / gear up for anything that they can trow at you. So much so you could go for hours into survival/defence/intercept, without completing the star chart (How's that "non-elite"?)

quick correction there, junctions are just another forced time gate to make sure you dont clear the entire starmap in 1-2 days like we could in 2013.

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So its' bad because you are too lazy to finish all the missions and requirements like every single other game that has ever existed and will exist???? Logical

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Clearing the solar system gives mastery which is enough reason for why I did it a few years ago. Warframe is a grinding game, haven't your realised that yet? It's a collect em all game. OP you say you have no time to grind cos chores, real life etc and yet you have the time to come on here and write a lengthy complaint as well as then replying to comments in your thread. Hell the time you've wasted here you could've easily cleared a planet.

I look forward to reading your complaint thread about Arbitration alerts being "too hard" once you finally clear the starchart. 

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On 2018-10-12 at 5:02 PM, (XB1)TheNotVirus said:

So in other words...

Me: Mom, you know I don't like doing the dishes.

Mom: Dishes or no computer.

Me: Can I clean my room?  I like cleaning my room.

Mom: Dishes or no computer.

Toppest of Kek my good sir.

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i have 30 or 40 missions left to do on the starchart to unlock these.

Many are game modes i'm not a huge fan of.

You know what my reaction to this update was?

"Huh... now i actually have a reason to do those"

+1 for more reasons to play

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Yes, please, MR0 should be able to join Elite Alerts. I miss the experience from Tridolons, where me and a Trinity 2 man it, because an MR0 and MR3 silently watch and won't leave.

I am sure if there's no gating that there would be no failed runs because of leeching newcomers who die in the first minute.

I have a better Idea, if they are under MR 5 they can be ressed. So they have a reason to call you names if you don't. Wouldn't that be great.

MR25 would be a great idea for gating by the way. Much less effort than clearing the star chart.

Thank god there are no people who don't like farming MR and stay at 14-15 who would say the same as you.

You are definitely not another whiny kid, you bring up great points.

 

It should be gated and it is in a minimal way. I actually appreciate that all nodes matter for progression now. But then again in our age there must be at least one flower triggered by anything new or else it wouldn't be right, would it. Although I'm ok with adding an either/or requirement. Star chart or MR25, lets see what you'd do first.

 

One last thing. If you're far enough into the game it should be trivial for you to clear it, semi-afk. I had 17 nodes and it took me a little over an hour to finish them, most were defection and DS. If you actually struggle to clear something on, say, Neptune, solo or not, you don't have a place in the Elite Alerts anyway.

 

 

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