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Cautious Shot is absolutely terrible, please buff it


Futurehero
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In short , my Ogris deals about 30.000 damage per shot, so even with all the reductions , I take around...... 2700 damage? Which is enough to 1 shot most of my frames?

Oh , and above mentioned Ogris just BARELY handles the enemies I needed to fight to obtain it in the first place.

Please learn how much damage explosive weapons actually do, and buff the mod accordingly.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Futurehero said:

In short , my Ogris deals about 30.000 damage per shot, so even with all the reductions , I take around...... 2700 damage? Which is enough to 1 shot most of my frames?

Oh , and above mentioned Ogris just BARELY handles the enemies I needed to fight to obtain it in the first place.

Please learn how much damage explosive weapons actually do, and buff the mod accordingly.

Need a little more info.  Which frames?  How much health, shields and armor?  Were you running a damage reduction power (of any sort) at the time?  Stuff that helps make your point. 

And how you say something matters almost as much as what you are saying. 

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5 minutes ago, seprent said:

no offence mate but ^ come off as snarky i know better then you do what i say 

I don't know about "snarky" but what I exactly mean is:

-This mod takes a while to farm and has 10 ranks. To slot it in, I take a -15% damage penalty and sacrifice a mod slot.

-To get it I have to fight high level enemies with no revives to get it.

-I used a self damage weapon (the Ogris) to get it and it performed "just allright"

-With the mod equipped and maxed, the same weapon, still easily one shots me, whilst at the same time being "just ok" versus the very same enemies I had to fight to aquire the mod.

-Therefore, I am explicitly requesting them to go the simulacrum, test the mod with a fully modded weapon versus enemies, and the self-damage potential.

Edited by Futurehero
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1 minute ago, Futurehero said:

I don't know about "snarky" but what I exactly mean is:

-This mod takes a while to farm and has 110 ranks. To slot it in, I take a -15% damage penalty and sacrifice a mod slot.

-To get it I have to fight high level enemies with no revives to get it.

-I used a self damage weapon (the Ogris) to get it and it performed "just allright"

-With the mod equipped and maxed, the same weapon, still easily one shots me, whilst at the same time being "just ok" versus the very same enemies I had to fight to aquire the mod.

-Therefore, I am explicitly requesting them to go the simulacrum, test the mod with a fully modded weapon versus enemies, and the self-damage potential.

You are still aggressively avoiding telling us what frame, if Dr powers were in use and what survival mods if any you were using. Those factors make a big difference to if the mod needs a redesign or not. 

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1 minute ago, Drasiel said:

You are still aggressively avoiding telling us what frame, if Dr powers were in use and what survival mods if any you were using. Those factors make a big difference to if the mod needs a redesign or not. 

Everyone I tried except Inaros, Nidus , Triniy, and my Ironskin Rhino died at the edge of the aoe. 

Even if that weren't the case and I remained alive with , let's say 100 hp, it still wouldn't justify a 10 rank mod that also gives me a 15% damage penalty.

If you're trying to imply that even with this mod, I should only play super heavy-tank frames , then self-damage is still problematic and the mod does not do enough.

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9 minutes ago, Futurehero said:

Everyone I tried except Inaros, Nidus , Triniy, and my Ironskin Rhino died at the edge of the aoe. 

Even if that weren't the case and I remained alive with , let's say 100 hp, it still wouldn't justify a 10 rank mod that also gives me a 15% damage penalty.

If you're trying to imply that even with this mod, I should only play super heavy-tank frames , then self-damage is still problematic and the mod does not do enough.

I'm not implying anything. We just need all the information for the issue so we can make informed decisions about whether we agree or not. Also I think ogris predates damage fall off for explosives so being at the edge may not be a factor. 

With this new info yeah the cost of the mod is not matching its performance. It needs a buff

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5 minutes ago, Drasiel said:

I'm not implying anything. We just need all the information for the issue so we can make informed decisions about whether we agree or not. Also I think ogris predates damage fall off for explosives so being at the edge may not be a factor. 

With this new info yeah the cost of the mod is not matching its performance. It needs a buff

Yeah.... I'm not trying to be snarky or anything. I'm literally reporting an issue.

The mod's purpose is to allow weapons with self damage to be used more safely, not 100%.

With the way enemies are significantly more tanky and require vast amounts more damage to kill than our frames, the mod is not worth it.

90% seems like a ton. But explosive weapons deal several tens of thousands of damage points, and worse, even that is required to bring down enemies higher in level (else I'd just straight-up build my weapons for less damage)

I'd ideally want the mod to do :  "Self damage from this weapon now deals 75 --> 30% of your Max hp in damage instead of fixed health.  -25% damage done"

Something like that.

This feels to me like a repeat of the Spira Prime (where the prime variant was actually a downgrade to the regular version) . It feels like an oversight.

 

EDIT: For bonus hilariousness, the Staticor got buffed with an area of effect of 8 meters, and that weapon deals absolutely zero self damage.

 

Edited by Futurehero
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How about changing how this mod works fundamentally?

Instead of full self-damage protection the mod now only deals damage to you equal to the max percentage of health damage you could deal to the enemies in the current round.

So for example if your ogris build at best oneshots an enemy at round 15 you get oneshotted if you shoot too close, IF your ogris only deals 30% total health damage at round 50 you only take max 30% total health damage.

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2 hours ago, Futurehero said:

In short , my Ogris deals about 30.000 damage per shot, so even with all the reductions , I take around...... 2700 damage? Which is enough to 1 shot most of my frames?

Oh , and above mentioned Ogris just BARELY handles the enemies I needed to fight to obtain it in the first place.

Please learn how much damage explosive weapons actually do, and buff the mod accordingly.

 

 

I rather just they either buff to 100 percent or eliminate self damage 

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I kinda luled at the mod when i learned that u can still get killed from it, its the definition of a waste, u'd think this would be a new player mod but when the new players get some experience it becomes useless and its also a mod you get after u complete the star chart (at that point u have experience with the game). Actually useless no reason for it to even exist.

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2 hours ago, Futurehero said:

Everyone I tried except Inaros, Nidus , Triniy, and my Ironskin Rhino died at the edge of the aoe. 

Even if that weren't the case and I remained alive with , let's say 100 hp, it still wouldn't justify a 10 rank mod that also gives me a 15% damage penalty.

If you're trying to imply that even with this mod, I should only play super heavy-tank frames , then self-damage is still problematic and the mod does not do enough.

No mention of frame builds yet.    Thing is, a low health/shield/armor frame is still likely dead even with the mod.   Why?   Your own weapon builds show why.   No different than getting hit by a really high level enemy with normal damage reduction.   This mod isnt supposed to make launchers act like the early no self damage tonkor imo.   Not saying play only tanky frames.  But if you are running low health/shield/armor frames with no or minimal survive-abilty mods then even 90% cannot save you.

I am asking as I am genuinely interested.   I do not have the mod yet, and I love using the Kulstar.   Not sure if anything has a bigger blast area than that.  

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3 hours ago, Futurehero said:

In short , my Ogris deals about 30.000 damage per shot, so even with all the reductions , I take around...... 2700 damage? Which is enough to 1 shot most of my frames?

Oh , and above mentioned Ogris just BARELY handles the enemies I needed to fight to obtain it in the first place.

Please learn how much damage explosive weapons actually do, and buff the mod accordingly.

 

 

I mentioned before that the self-damage from explosive weapons shouldn't factor in mods, but DE instead uses this awful patchwork mod instead.

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So... the bandaid mod doesn't even work. I'm not surprised at all.

Now, what would I suggest?

Remove all selfdamage from weapons that do so, but in place of that, put in selfDEBILITATION on those weapons. Hypothetical examples:

Lenz: Procs cold on the first pulse, knocks you down on the explosion.
Penta/Ogris/Angstrum: Knocks you down.
Castanas/Talons: Staggers you.

This means; They are still not nice to use up close (on higher levels, being CC'd around enemies might kill you indirectly), you can still mod to prevent/reduce the self-CC (Handspring, Fortitude etc) which also helps you in other ways, rather than ONLY helping you against self-CC.

Then, remake Cautious Shot into something entirely different (with the same ranks and modcost), like;
Ammunition Battery - Restores 5 to 10% of your spare ammo (so +0,5% per rank), every 30 to 20 seconds (so -1 second every rank). Minimum 1 ammo restored per instance.

Edited by Azamagon
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11 minutes ago, Azamagon said:

So... the bandaid mod doesn't even work. I'm not surprised at all.

Now, what would I suggest?

Remove all selfdamage from weapons that do so, but in place of that, put in selfDEBILITATION on those weapons. Hypothetical examples:

Lenz: Procs cold on the first pulse, knocks you down on the explosion.
Penta/Ogris/Angstrum: Knocks you down.
Castanas/Talons: Staggers you.

This means; They are still not nice to use up close (on higher levels, being CC'd around enemies might kill you indirectly), you can still mod to prevent/reduce the self-CC (Handspring, Fortitude etc) which also helps you in other ways, rather than ONLY helping you against self-CC.

Then, remake Cautious Shot into something entirely different (with the same ranks and modcost), like;
Ammunition Battery - Restores 5 to 10% of your spare ammo (so +0,5% per rank), every 30 to 20 seconds (so -1 second every rank). Minimum 1 ammo restored per instance.

Why would i want to equip that than just have a carrier sentinel or sniper ammo transmutation mod?

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1 hour ago, _Vortus_ said:

No mention of frame builds yet.    Thing is, a low health/shield/armor frame is still likely dead even with the mod.   Why?   Your own weapon builds show why.   No different than getting hit by a really high level enemy with normal damage reduction.   This mod isnt supposed to make launchers act like the early no self damage tonkor imo.   Not saying play only tanky frames.  But if you are running low health/shield/armor frames with no or minimal survive-abilty mods then even 90% cannot save you.

I am asking as I am genuinely interested.   I do not have the mod yet, and I love using the Kulstar.   Not sure if anything has a bigger blast area than that.  

Which brings my point about the 8 m AOE Staticor with 0 self-damage.....or the Lenz for that matter, all the more relevant.

There already ARE weapons in this game that bypass this problem.

Here's a 12-capacity, 10 level mod that's supposed to alleviate these issues, and it does not.

 

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1 minute ago, Im_a_Turtle said:

Why would i want to equip that than just have a carrier sentinel or sniper ammo transmutation mod?

Was just a random idea *shrugs* The main thought was to help weapons like this:

  • Weapons like Twin Wraith Vipers, with such horrible ammo efficiency that even ammo mutation mods might not be enough help to sustain them (spend more bullets than you get back issues can happen easily with these).
  • Snipers, or Sniper-esque weapons, can be allowed to actually be more still in a perched location (not as much need to move around to get ammo).

Another idea, possibly to be combined with that mod suggestion, or as a standalone mod; "Make kills with this weapon collect all loot within X meters around the killed target".
Could be VERY useful for open areas like PoE and Fortuna.

Just remember, I'm just tossing out random ideas, it's just brainstorming.

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1 hour ago, Azamagon said:

So... the bandaid mod doesn't even work. I'm not surprised at all.

Now, what would I suggest?

Remove all selfdamage from weapons that do so, but in place of that, put in selfDEBILITATION on those weapons. Hypothetical examples:

Lenz: Procs cold on the first pulse, knocks you down on the explosion.
Penta/Ogris/Angstrum: Knocks you down.
Castanas/Talons: Staggers you.

This means; They are still not nice to use up close (on higher levels, being CC'd around enemies might kill you indirectly), you can still mod to prevent/reduce the self-CC (Handspring, Fortitude etc) which also helps you in other ways, rather than ONLY helping you against self-CC.

Then, remake Cautious Shot into something entirely different (with the same ranks and modcost), like;
Ammunition Battery - Restores 5 to 10% of your spare ammo (so +0,5% per rank), every 30 to 20 seconds (so -1 second every rank). Minimum 1 ammo restored per instance.

It's a great idea to have self damage removed but still be penalised with a stagger or knockdown. I know I'd start using explosives again but with caution which I think is what they're after. 

I mean if it was me I'd just remove self damage entirely and rebalance any weapons deemed OP but seeing as they're going down this path your idea is a better compromise than this mod which still leaves you open to huge amounts of damage depending on your setup. 

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The tonkor used to cap self damage at 50, way back when it was a goofy weapon. Maybe a flat damage cap that decreases with mod rank would have been a better way of designing this mod while still maintaining a control lever of "it will still hurt". A few hundred damage is still worth worrying about for non-tanks even if it doesn't cause instant death.

 

on the other hand this mod is so blatantly bad i feel like it's probably just blatantly bad on purpose because DE hates that people dare to complain about self damage. I'm not sure if that's more or less pessimistic than assuming that their grasp of their own game is so bad that they don't KNOW how silly the mod is. The fact that it's 30k endo to max (and as a percent reduction NEEDS to be maxed to even have a hope of doing anything) is just icing on the cake.

Edited by OvisCaedo
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How about git gud and don't hit yourself with the self damage weapons. 

As a passionate about self damage weapons that mod is unnecessary for them to begin with. 

If you can't aim with a weapon just don't use it LOL

amirite? 

Edit: If you still can't aim and you want to be able to use a self damage weapon, go ahead and pick nidus, get some stacks and ez katka

Edited by Edarin
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