Nekros soul survivor useless again...

[elitharcos]

The new arbitration mode disables the possibility to get down, because you die immediately... That simply means to me, that oberon's bleedout reduction and every bleedout state affecting thing will be useless there. My request/feedback is that Nekros's soul survivor should instead of getting someone up immediately, make it possible when used on another warframe to get a pickup somewhere within 30 meters(unaffected), and if they reach it within 3/6/9/12(duration affected) seconds, they are not downed, but it's up there on the screen as a debuff like a toxin status, etc in red that they have only that amount of time to reach it. once it's reached they die, unless they have picked up the "soul" object and a 180 second cooldown goes on them similar to oberon's. I have enough of it's uselessness, because either A: you get down and can be revived, or B: you get down, but everyone else dies. also it doesn't give invulnerability when picking up people.

Edited October 14, 2018 by elitharcos

[Urlan]

Sounds like a reasonable idea. In conclave, Nekros doesn't get Shadows, but instead has respawn speed increased; so it would certainly have an existing precedent.

[hellodownthere]

1 hour ago, elitharcos said:

snip

Just use Oberon with Phoenix Renewal, works great.

[EinheriarJudith]

people already trying to avoid failing. DE has already made it clear you will fail. any form of prevent death should be disabled.

[GPrime96]

2 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

people already trying to avoid failing. DE has already made it clear you will fail. any form of prevent death should be disabled.

Actually, you don't have to die to fail in the Arbitrations.

[000l000]

Il y a 2 heures, EinheriarJudith a dit :

people already trying to avoid failing. DE has already made it clear you will fail. any form of prevent death should be disabled.

People were already attempting dangerous content before Arbitrations and it always ends the same way - Only a few frames are viable and most players avoid others. No one cares about 300% power strength if he's dead - Plus 300% weapon damage is all you need.

This mode is brand new and already needs some serious overhaul - Some frames are totally broken with that much power increase while other don't care at all. The lack of consistency is real and all they did only prevents players from having real choices.

[EinheriarJudith]

2 hours ago, 000l000 said:

People were already attempting dangerous content before Arbitrations and it always ends the same way - Only a few frames are viable and most players avoid others. No one cares about 300% power strength if he's dead - Plus 300% weapon damage is all you need.

This mode is brand new and already needs some serious overhaul - Some frames are totally broken with that much power increase while other don't care at all. The lack of consistency is real and all they did only prevents players from having real choices.

there is a difference between going to high lvls where death is final and going to high lvls and being able to be picked up by teammates. it doesnt need a serious overhaul. it launched with bugs which will get fiixed frame boost is considerable on just about every frame. the only frame i opt out of using its bonus is limbo ive had no other issues with any other frames bonus.

as i said. prevent death should be disabled completely for this mode.

[Buttaface]

IMO, limited revives in the new mode should be allowed while MANY abilities should be nerfed down, cast timered, or ineffective in the mode.

 

[Urlan]

4 hours ago, Buttaface said:

IMO, limited revives in the new mode should be allowed while MANY abilities should be nerfed down, cast timered, or ineffective in the mode.

 

So guns only? Why don't we just require players only use Tenno mode and call it a day? 😀

[IceColdHawk]

12 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

people already trying to avoid failing. DE has already made it clear you will fail. any form of prevent death should be disabled.

This.

Soul Survivor is not useless. It helps to get people up very quickly and from a far outside of one game mode. Arbitration doesn't and shouldn't allow this due to single life rule. But that doesn't make Soul Survivor useless. You're just not allowed to cheat.

[000l000]

For my part i think this new mode is totally worthless design wise, it only looks like Index but with longer and thus more boring missions with some serious lack of reward and terrible consistency issues concerning how different missions take way more time than others to complete. Drones are bugged with Limbo, you can't target them when they're hidden behind something or just in the middle of a dozen enemies. You can't even play melee in this scenario cause we still can't kill flying drones with melee combos (and i don't even speak about auto targeting issues).

So what this mode has only been designed to be played with a Tanky frame and an Ignis or an arca plasmor only ? Really terrible design here. Even worse than Index, which is already really boring to play.

Last defense i did took 20 min and we got pretty much nothing as a reward, 9 min is what we needed to complete an interception for the same reward. Excavations take forever and you just have to sit watching your excavator finish its job - and in the end you wasted 20 min of your life for a few Endo (hint: You already loot Endo everywhere) and ten times less cryo you could have found in a lvl 2 mission. People who crave for difficulty should think twice cause this content is no hard at all, it's just tedious, way boring and not much rewarding. It only prevents you from playing with almost half of your roster, and this 300% power increase does nothing at all to fix that.

No one tested this new content before launch, everything i said should have been noticed even when this content was on paper.

Edited October 15, 2018 by 000l000

[5H4DE]

2 hours ago, 000l000 said:

Snip

You misread his comment, he said that all death prevention should be disabled in this mode I.E Phoenix Renewal or Quick Thinking. Basically, you die you're out, no coming back, no cheating death.

Edited October 15, 2018 by TheRealShade

[000l000]

il y a 11 minutes, TheRealShade a dit :

You misread his comment, he said that all death prevention should be disabled in this mode I.E Phoenix Renewal or Quick Thinking. Basically, you die you're out, no coming back, no cheating death.

Fixed, it does make more sense then. Phoenix renewal or Wukong second ability are part of frame kits though so i don't think any game mode should prevail upon how frames basically work. Quick thinking is another story and could be disabled.

Dying isn't necessarily what makes Arbitrations harder, not messing with objective is as if not more important, especially when everyone will go there playing tanks only...

Edited October 15, 2018 by 000l000

[5H4DE]

9 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

Fixed, it does make more sense then. Phoenix renewal or Wukong second ability are part of frame kits though so i don't think any game mode should prevail upon how frames basically work. Quick thinking is another story and could be disabled.

Dying isn't necessarily what makes Arbitrations harder, not messing with objective is as if not more important, especially when everyone will go there playing tanks only...

Imo the game mode right now is easy and boring, they should have at least kept the starting level at 100. It takes forever for enemies to spawn, I'd much rather they swam us like in Kuva survival, I did 2 defense runs yesterday and I nearly fell asleep, it was more boring than lith relics.

[Fallen_Echo]

15 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

people already trying to avoid failing. DE has already made it clear you will fail. any form of prevent death should be disabled.

Oberon phoenix renewal.

As for failing im sure that the current two most obvious reason is that you are either too bored to concentrate or the mission fails itself because of the spawn problems.

[000l000]

à l’instant, TheRealShade a dit :

Imo the game mode right now is easy and boring, they should have at least kept the starting level at 100. It takes forever for enemies to spawn, I'd much rather they swam us like in Kuva survival, I did 2 defense runs yesterday and I nearly fell asleep, it was more boring than lith relics.

Defense is the worst mission you can do in Arbitration, Interceptions are twice faster and you don't have to bother with spawn issues or moving objective. There's a lot of discrepancy between missions in this mode and i agree with the boring argument. This is really not fun at all. 😕

[EinheriarJudith]

31 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Oberon phoenix renewal.

As for failing im sure that the current two most obvious reason is that you are either too bored to concentrate or the mission fails itself because of the spawn problems.

actually mistakes happen. it has nothing to do with being bored. though the spawn issue is a problem that needs fixing.

i actually like that death is final in this mode. phoenix renewal and quick thinking both need to be disabled. i did a 70min as trinity and the entire time i was watching health bars and maintaining bless and my own energy like any Trinity player should knowing that if i make a mistake someone is going to die.

with Oberon as long as he has renewal active people can cheat death. that's boring. it defeats the whole purpose of death being final. if people want to cheat death play normal endless. cheat death doesn't belong in Arbitration.

[EinheriarJudith]

43 minutes ago, TheRealShade said:

Imo the game mode right now is easy and boring, they should have at least kept the starting level at 100. It takes forever for enemies to spawn, I'd much rather they swam us like in Kuva survival, I did 2 defense runs yesterday and I nearly fell asleep, it was more boring than lith relics.

hahaha i didnt think anything could be more boring than lith relics.

[5H4DE]

2 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

hahaha i didnt think anything could be more boring than lith relics.

Arbitration defense is several times more boring. 

[EinheriarJudith]

Just now, TheRealShade said:

Arbitration defense is several times more boring. 

i encountered broken spawn on ice planet interception.

[Fallen_Echo]

1 hour ago, EinheriarJudith said:

actually mistakes happen. it has nothing to do with being bored. though the spawn issue is a problem that needs fixing.

i actually like that death is final in this mode. phoenix renewal and quick thinking both need to be disabled. i did a 70min as trinity and the entire time i was watching health bars and maintaining bless and my own energy like any Trinity player should knowing that if i make a mistake someone is going to die.

with Oberon as long as he has renewal active people can cheat death. that's boring. it defeats the whole purpose of death being final. if people want to cheat death play normal endless. cheat death doesn't belong in Arbitration.

Thats nice but if you remove phoenix renewal and quick thinking you further downscale the useable frame list in that mode.

Dont get me wrong people can still use whatever they want but oberon becomes useless because his healing is pityful and his other skills are negated completely. Frames what depend on quick thinking also go down the drain as they are too squishy for this gamemode so we are slowly forced into a tank/buffer meta. The only expectation is Limbo who is immortal in the rift.

Death being final also doesnt add anything extra to the gamemode, its like in every battle royale game where you exit after getting killed. It doesnt make things harder or the mission more threatening, its just a game over screen its even less impactful than for example dying in skyrim where you have mods for quicksaving and such.

[EinheriarJudith]

16 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Thats nice but if you remove phoenix renewal and quick thinking you further downscale the useable frame list in that mode.

Dont get me wrong people can still use whatever they want but oberon becomes useless because his healing is pityful and his other skills are negated completely. Frames what depend on quick thinking also go down the drain as they are too squishy for this gamemode so we are slowly forced into a tank/buffer meta. The only expectation is Limbo who is immortal in the rift.

Death being final also doesnt add anything extra to the gamemode, its like in every battle royale game where you exit after getting killed. It doesnt make things harder or the mission more threatening, its just a game over screen its even less impactful than for example dying in skyrim where you have mods for quicksaving and such.

actually it does make things harder for the people remaining. if a group looses all its DPS frames it will either end in a failure or the remaining people will not be able to push back the growing horde of enemies. in battle royal the point is avoid death to be the last person standing its completely different.

this is just something we wont agree on. i personally dont use quick thinking i dont need gimmicks to stay alive. if i play squishy frames i know exactly what to expect and how to tailor my playstyle to compensate for the lack of frame defense. thats the problem with prevent death and invulnerability mechanics. it makes people dependant on them and when you remove them people all of a sudden cant cope.

for me the mode is fine and really only need to have its spawn fixed.

[Fallen_Echo]

2 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

this is just something we wont agree on. i personally dont use quick thinking i dont need gimmicks to stay alive. if i play squishy frames i know exactly what to expect and how to tailor my playstyle to compensate for the lack of frame defense. thats the problem with prevent death and invulnerability mechanics. it makes people dependant on them and when you remove them people all of a sudden cant cope.

I guess you are right we wont gonna reach the same point.

In my viewpoint you either dont use quick thinking or you dont bring squishies to content like this since they are simply unfit for it anyways. Today i had the idea to bring mag to this mode then i remembered that all of her skills will be useless and since i dont use quick thinking bringing her is like wearing cardboard as armor, freakin stupid.

I would much more like this mode if we could use our frames to the fullest because currently its limiting us hardly, removing the essential part of the gameplay soo much i wouldnt be suprised if DE's next hard gamemode idea would be a no skill mode where everybody plays inaros because what else would you use.

[Birdframe_Prime]

Looking at it, the issue here is that Nekros' ability works only once a player has been 'knocked down', which is a state that is not allowed. Meanwhile, abilities like Phoenix Renewal, Undying and Defy, or mods like Quick Thinking, replace the instance of 'knocked down', saying 'when this would happen, prevent it and do X instead'.

That's why they work and Soul Survivor doesn't.

In the grand scheme of things... no, these other functions should work. They prevent the knock-down state from occurring in the rest of the game too, preventing the need to revive that player or causing them to self-revive. If the knock-down state is a perma-death state in Arby's, then preventing it by means of specifically chosen abilities/mods is a powerful tool, not a glitch in the system.

[DarkRuler2500]

vor 22 Stunden schrieb EinheriarJudith:

any form of prevent death should be disabled.

There are mods in this game that are really unused before Arbitrations.
Why would you make them even less interesting.

I personally enjoy playing Phoenix Renewal Oberon because i like to give my teammates another chance in this mode. The thing is that this mode should force people to alter their builds to make theim fit for the hard challenge. If you would remove the Phoenix Renewal, one could also remove Iron Skin, Warding Halo or pretty much EVERY defensive ability ingame and we might play the mode as Operators.