Jump to content
Dante Unbound: Share Bug Reports and Feedback Here! ×

Iron Skin needed Rework.


el_chanis
 Share

Recommended Posts

13 minutes ago, Thaylien said:

A radial full heal that provides only 75% damage reduction to players for a very limited time. If that, after the forty seven different nerfs to that frame, is still considered OP by the OP, we can pack up and go home.

 

I find hilarius how you can state a completely broken mechanic, and act like if its getting 1 more bullet in the magazine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Methinks OP isn't really getting the whole picture here. I main Rhino Prime and yes I max out IronSkin to a degree.

Is it broken? no. Is it OP? nope. Is it boring, intuitive and lacking in customisation? nope.

 

Here's the thing. Iron Skin lets you tank, but it is not the best method to tank with. You get a set pool of HP to play about with but you can't stand about and tank everything. Other frames with pwoers that do straight up damage reduction are arguably worse since they scale.

Iron Skin does not scale. Which means that yes, it's broken on missions lowers that Sortie-level, but when you start hitting lvl60+ you'll find that standing around is not a viable tactic. It's a tool with a purpose but it's usefulness degrades as enemy level increases.

As for your suggestion of changing it to armour scaling: No. That won't fix the problem and if anything makes it 1000% worse. One of the biggest arguments to date is the damage/armour scaling for enemies vs warframes, since most warframe powers don't scale. Warframe's armour values do not scale, whereas something like a Grineer Lancer does. So if you made Iron Skin based off armour increase, it'd have to scale to stay viable; if it doesn't it's no good. The other problem is that you mention Health-tanking as a viable tank; works for some frames but not Rhino. You want a dedicated health tank, you go to Inaros and Nidus, since they only have health.

 

 

TL:DR, Iron Skin is fine, your suggestion won't hold water, and nothing needs changing

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, el_chanis said:

I can't think of a worse example than that. Shields are worthless. Not even overshield can save that useless mechanic. Trinity can make some use of it because of how OP is her blessing, not because shields are actually a usefull mechanic. No tanky frame relys on shields, and squishy frames that use them will remain squishy no matter how much they get. Thats why Quick Thinking is so important on them. 

That is irrelevant, it is still a game mechanic. By the same token, many arcanes are useless (particularly since two of them restore shields on being damaged), and blocking itself largely does very little in a game where moving around and dodging is almost always more effective, yet for some reason not being able to use literally all of both is enough for you to demand a complete overhaul to Iron Skin, with no compromises. Not only are you interpreting Iron Skin's "lack of interaction" with marginal mechanics to such an extreme that virtually no-one else is willing to side with you on it, you're also not even being consistent with which mechanics you consider so critically important.

Ultimately, what you're criticizing could be easily fixed without reworking Iron Skin. If blocking applied its damage multiplier, and if Iron Skin taking damage triggered on-damaged arcanes, that lack of interaction would be completely removed. The ability itself would still have some other problems, but at least it would cover much of what you'd want without having to utterly tear down the existing effect.

Edited by Teridax68
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, el_chanis said:

I find hilarius how you can state a completely broken mechanic, and act like if its getting 1 more bullet in the magazine.

Because it isn't, in fact it's been heavily nerfed twice to get it to the state it's in now. A 100 base cost ability that heals and provides damage reduction on a frame that has only support and defense abilities is not overpowered.

Blessing used to function on the percentage of damage Trinity self-healed, and provide damage reduction off that, meaning that self-damage Trin, with Link up to send that damage out to enemies as well, meant that she could literally reach 99.99999% damage reduction and face tank level 500 enemies.

That was OP, and having played that I know.

Warframe is not a MOBA, where percentages and damage reduction need to be fair to the enemy because they're other players, this is a PvE where the enemies are dumb AI that can scale infinitely while we can't. 75% damage reduction is, in the grand scheme of things, nothing. Especially when frames like Mesa, Gara and Nezha can easily get to or even exceed 90% damage reduction with a single press of a button for longer durations.

You can argue all you like that Rhino is overpowered because the game that most of the players will face doesn't really challenge him, the same can be said for Nidus or Mesa or Loki or a half dozen others. A good player, who knows how to actually work through the system of Endless missions, can even take an Ember to multi-hour Mot runs.

But the fact of the matter is that the game is not just made for low-level runs, it's made for level 100-300 as well. These are possible, and used to be actively encouraged, and all that's changed since then is that the rarer rewards were made possible to achieve at the shallow end as easily as they were at the deep end.

If frames are not capable of at least attempting the difficulty levels that this game is capable of creating, then the Devs are doing a bad job.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Teridax68 said:

demand a complete overhaul to Iron Skin, with no compromises.

jesus christ. DO YOU EVEN READ MY POST? Let me Repeat:

"Turn Iron Skin into a buff that grants BASE ARMOR (plus the status inmunity, as usual). Nothing absurd, maybe 300 base armor"

Rhino can complete the entire starchart WITHOUT MODS. Thats the very definition of broken. This change will force him to actually use tank mods to tank, more importantly, HEALTH, wich he can COMPLETELY IGNORE right now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's fun trying to find the largest group of enemies to charge into and see how high I can get iron skin using the two syndicate mods, I'm constantly charging enemies and recasting iron skin so it seems pretty interactive to me? I always finish every mission with 0% damage taken though so maybe it's a little bit too good...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Teridax68 said:

Ultimately, what you're criticizing could be easily fixed without reworking Iron Skin. If blocking applied its damage multiplier, and if Iron Skin taking damage triggered on-damaged arcanes, that lack of interaction would be completely removed

While still a possible solution, i would rather avoid it. The skill itself is absurdly strong as it is, getting all of that on top, will just be overkilling the overkill.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, el_chanis said:

jesus christ. DO YOU EVEN READ MY POST? Let me Repeat:

"Turn Iron Skin into a buff that grants BASE ARMOR (plus the status inmunity, as usual). Nothing absurd, maybe 300 base armor"

... which is a complete overhaul to the current ability, which is a damage buffer, not a base armor buff. Textually screaming through allcaps and bold does not contradict this, though it does make your post come across as rude and far more agitated than one needs to be in this kind of thread.

3 minutes ago, el_chanis said:

Rhino can complete the entire starchart WITHOUT MODS. Thats the very definition of broken. This change will force him to actually use tank mods to tank, more importantly, HEALTH, wich he can COMPLETELY IGNORE right now.

It is monumentally naïve, not to mention demonstrative of severe inexperience with the game, to believe that the Star Chart is anywhere near representative of the game's difficulty. Newsflash: the Star Chart is easy. It has been for a very long time, and it does not take most frames that much mod power to cruise through it. The fact that you are asking to rework Rhino because you find him easy to play in the Star Chart I feel shows just how misguided this thread has been from the very start.

4 minutes ago, el_chanis said:

While still a possible solution, i would rather avoid it. The skill itself is absurdly strong as it is, getting all of that on top, will just be overkilling the overkill.

If you think it'd be OP, why not just nerf the base health? This is assuming one needs to nerf anything at all, since most arcanes and blocking are trivial in the vast majority of cases, and so implementing this change wouldn't affect most people's builds.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

If you think it'd be OP, why not just nerf the base health? This is assuming one needs to nerf anything at all, since most arcanes and blocking are trivial in the vast majority of cases, and so implementing this change wouldn't affect most people's builds.

because still removes the need of health and prevents Rage/Hunter's Adrenaline. Thats why.

Besides, my change still doesn't change mos people's build. Unless you are tanking without health mods, in wich case your build SHOULD be changed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, el_chanis said:

because still removes the need of health and prevents Rage/Hunter's Adrenaline. Thats why.

But Rage already doesn't work on shields. On many frames with low health, Rage is already not worth picking. Why is it so important to make it good on Rhino?

Quote

Besides, my change still doesn't change mos people's build. Unless you are tanking without health mods, in wich case your build SHOULD be changed.

Why? Who are you to tell people how they should and shouldn't build? Why should every frame need Vitality in their build?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...