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Ember Bad even with the ARB +300%


Calthous
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Tried Arbitration with Ember Prime for the first time. Was looking forward to it as I used to use her a fair bit, but stopped when her 4 pretty much became a close range ability and her survivability took a nose dive because of her tissue paper armor. Well 125 but for being cut to close range for her ultimate that is terrible, a corpus with a shotgun can take her down past shields with a full redirection at those levels (60s-80s).

Even with the 300% bonus, it took enemies several seconds to die from world on fire... at close range! Afterwards I tried a ranged build at 250% with Firequake and less strength it worked alright for preventing enemies from attacking while you finish them off with a weapon. Range it still horrible when its at 100% with range mods. At that point all ember seemed to be good for was staggering enemies to finish them off with her gun.

Remember when Ember was touted as 'an alternative to gunplay' (Woops, Yeah that was Volt). I feel like at some point DE forgot that part. I also wish when they made a redesign on a warframe they would at least do a review period for awhile to see how well the community does with it I understand why they changed her, but I feel like they approached it in a rather terrible way. I don't think the doubling of damage was is at all worth the doubling of energy cost and halving of range. Not to mention the range part is even more terrible when you consider how fragile of a frame she is with her near paper tissue armor. Nova has much less armor yes, but at least she gets damage resist from her 1 ability. Ember has mediocre utility, and just downright terrible damage at high levels, to the point where even with +300% damage she still solidly sucks.

 

For a nearly 'all offense' frame. She is just terrible fighting anything over level 40, and almost entirely useless in the expansive open world of Plains of Eidolon. I almost feel like she needs a complete redesign rather then an overhaul at this point.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Calthous
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3 hours ago, Calthous said:

For a nearly 'all offense' frame. She is just terrible fighting anything over level 40, and almost entirely useless in the expansive open world of Plains of Eidolon

I don't really use her in PoE, but I regularly have top damage and highest kill count in Sorties (not including Elemental Resistance modifiers, obvi) when playing Ember. Just sayin'.

 

EDIT: Also, I don't remember Ember being touted as an "alternative to gunplay". That's the (somewhat erroneous) description for Volt. 

Edited by SenorClipClop
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3 hours ago, Calthous said:

Even with the 300% bonus, it took enemies several seconds to die from world on fire... at close range!

You ever stop to think maybe WoF isn't meant to be a main damage source? When WoF is active you have complete use of all her other tools... weapons, other powers, movement. It is a passive aura that 'passively' does damage while hindering nothing. There is absolutely no reason for it to do massive amounts of damage even if I think the target lock and cap is too low since the explosions are single target and not AoE. Suggestion, make more use of Accelerant.

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I am fine with the damage being low, but corresponding with a overheat range of 7.5 meters is really short. Again, they made it a very short range ability on a frame with low armor and no straight up defensive powers. The main selling point of her last work had DE focused a lot on the damage improvement. (Literally some of those Dev Videos had them being like "Its alright everyone! Her range may be going down but she is getting better damage!)

The rework highly focused on damage being 2xed at overheat (which is worked up over a 9.5 second build up time), while having energy cost double and range halve. I get why they reworked her, she was a beast of quick killing low to mid-high tier enemies before, but I think they over approched it. In terms of just WoF, I think they should have had a smaller energy cost increase over overheating and made the range drop not quite so bad. Though I would have liked to see overheat as a mechanic for her that affects all her abilities more.

Otherwise, I could live with the current WoF, I just wish they uped the armor a bit, or gave her some better defensive abilities if they were focusing her even more into the role of close range.

 

Also

1 hour ago, SenorClipClop said:

I don't really use her in PoE, but I regularly have top damage and highest kill count in Sorties (not including Elemental Resistance modifiers, obvi) when playing Ember. Just sayin'.

 

EDIT: Also, I don't remember Ember being touted as an "alternative to gunplay". That's the (somewhat erroneous) description for Volt. 

Ooops, Wow Yeah I got that wrong, my bad.

 

51 minutes ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

You ever stop to think maybe WoF isn't meant to be a main damage source? When WoF is active you have complete use of all her other tools... weapons, other powers, movement. It is a passive aura that 'passively' does damage while hindering nothing. There is absolutely no reason for it to do massive amounts of damage even if I think the target lock and cap is too low since the explosions are single target and not AoE. Suggestion, make more use of Accelerant.

The problem is I find it hard to justify using WoF, energy cost gets rather extreme for anything other then quick bursts, and If I use the Ignis Wraith or something with a good heat focus then I never need to worry about WoF. Honestly, I find Accelerant to be her best skill right now, but otherwise I think the other three are in a wierd place right now and could really use a lookover. I wish they tied the overheat theme they seemed to have gone with for WoF a bit into everything else, made her more of a risk/reward type of warframe.

I would almost love to see WoF a duration ability, while Accelerant would become a constant aura ability, though that might be a bit to similar to the current Sayrn meta.

-Added in the original Dev Statement with her last rework below.

To quote the patch notes given with her current form.

"Ember is the original damage caster frame, offering low survivability in exchange for high offense. Her ultimate, World on Fire, is unmatched in terms of widespread lethality - while many Warframes specialize in certain mission types, Ember’s specialty is “anything under level 30”. By simply bullet jumping through levels with World on Fire active, enemies become a non-factor, making Ember a ubiquitous pick across most of the Star Chart. Like a mobile Resonating Quake, this monopoly on kills can leave squadmates struggling to keep up, in an attempt to see the enemy before they melt. These changes increase lethality at higher levels, while addressing the ability’s huge range.

World on Fire will continue working similarly to how it does now, but with changing effects over time. The gradually increasing energy cost should encourage most players to toggle the ability when needed, instead of the current “set and forget” approach. Players who can afford to run the ability at max charge may need to get more up close and personal, but the increased damage should help Ember out against higher level enemies.  World on Fire is still very capable of clearing rooms and sweeping hallways, but should now be applied more deliberately!"

I agree with these goals listed, but I still think they overdid the range of changes a bit. They still mentioned the intent to keep it a high damage power, but honestly it feels like fire quake is required if you want any high level use out of WoF now. I think it might have been awesome if they dropped most of the damage, kept the range, and made it increase the effects or duration of the heat status effect on everything in range, and then her first ability would take better advantage of that.

Have the current Accelerant cause the damage boosts for the heat element, while World on Fire extends the duration on targets in range while active, and fireball/fire blast apply heat damage.

 

 

 

Edited by Calthous
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47 minutes ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

You ever stop to think maybe WoF isn't meant to be a main damage source? When WoF is active you have complete use of all her other tools... weapons, other powers, movement. It is a passive aura that 'passively' does damage while hindering nothing. There is absolutely no reason for it to do massive amounts of damage even if I think the target lock and cap is too low since the explosions are single target and not AoE. Suggestion, make more use of Accelerant.

WoF fails as both cc and damage skill, also since it doesnt provide anykind of self buff its also useless in that term.

Its just a terrible skill, soo bad i dare to say it wouldnt hurt anybody if it wouldnt exist anymore.

Fireblast and Accelerant synergizes well, her first is nothing extra its in line with other first skills but her ult is pointless and feels like it should be her first skill and her ult should be something better.

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vor 5 Stunden schrieb Calthous:

Remember when Ember was touted as 'an alternative to gunplay'.

Wasn't that volt? Ember literally released as a buffing tank with her ultimate beeing a fire clad kinda ability - a damage reduction that deals damage in close range.

Only later when tower metas became a thing was she changed  to boost sale numbers so no idea where that comes from. With her ultimate beein a single dot kinda Cc it's really close to its original concept, only that the focus moved from tanking to active Cc. Use accelerant, move in, move on. That's literally what she is and was on her release, though it wouldn't be bad for her to get her original ult back. As a melee main i could appreciate it.

Edited by (PS4)CoolD2108
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6 hours ago, Calthous said:

Was looking forward to it as I used to use her a fair bit, but stopped when her 4 pretty much became a close range ability and her survivability took a nose dive because of her tissue paper armor. Well 125 but for being cut to close range for her ultimate that is terrible, a corpus with a shotgun can take her down past shields with a full redirection at those levels (60s-80s).

Even with the 300% bonus, it took enemies several seconds to die from world on fire... at close range! Afterwards I tried a ranged build at 250% with Firequake and less strength it worked alright for preventing enemies from attacking while you finish them off with a weapon. Range it still horrible when its at 100% with range mods. At that point all ember seemed to be good for was staggering enemies to finish them off with her gun.

It seems to me the buffs don't work on prime frames.

I was running Nova Prime with less than 85% strength assuming the buff would make it go full 75% slow, but that was not the case.

Needs more testing though.

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Ember is the only frame in the entire game who can kill any Grineer in a sec with fire only. You must be playing her really wrong.

Quit the lazy cult of the "run everywhere with World on fire on" and try to actually play her the right way - power combinations and weapons with fire. Nothing can resist accelerant and an Ignis or any decent fire weapon.

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This is what we get when developers balance frames around Overextended instead of balancing Overextended--the frame's ability range is reduced over time to compensate how players were running maximum range on her, but all that did was necessitate max range even more. Overextended currently gives +90% range for -60% strength, but developers have a hard time balancing around a single mod that adds twice as much range as the 2nd best range mod, and adds as much range as the other 3 mods combined but stacks alongside them. Since solar system content will always be important to the developers despite its low level, this single mod will always be the cause to nerf a warframe because it nearly doubles range by itself, or triples range when used with the other 3 mods.

As I've said before, I opt to change Overextended's stats to +50% range -20% strength, and add a corrupted mod to enable negative strength builds again such as Exhausted Prowess for +40% efficiency -45% strength, or Exhausted Endurance for +60% duration -45% strength. If Overextended doesn't become more equivalent to the other range mods, we can always expect warframe radial ability nerfs in the future. if you equip Overextended on your frame know that it is effectively a nerf beacon.

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10 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

I don't really use her in PoE, but I regularly have top damage and highest kill count in Sorties (not including Elemental Resistance modifiers, obvi) when playing Ember. Just sayin'.

 

EDIT: Also, I don't remember Ember being touted as an "alternative to gunplay". That's the (somewhat erroneous) description for Volt. 

Usually I have the highest damage done as well. However I rarely use my ability only melee so it´s not really an evidence for Embers performance.

Also there is no alternative for gun play. In terms of damage weapons can do litterally anything abilities can but not the other way around. There are a lot of enemies immune to ability damage (like the latest achievement Arbiter drones) yet I have to find a single enemy who´s immune to weapon damage.

 

10 hours ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

You ever stop to think maybe WoF isn't meant to be a main damage source? When WoF is active you have complete use of all her other tools... weapons, other powers, movement. It is a passive aura that 'passively' does damage while hindering nothing. There is absolutely no reason for it to do massive amounts of damage even if I think the target lock and cap is too low since the explosions are single target and not AoE. Suggestion, make more use of Accelerant.

Anyone can use weapons and her other abilities do even less dps. Also there are far better cc frames with much more surviveability. It has been mentioned that Ember is supposed to be a squishy damage dealer.

Squishy? check

Damage dealer? not at all

Buffer? maybe but a very weak one at best. Aside from weapons like ignis It´s not even rewarding to use heat damage mods let alone asking your team to use them. The ttk benefit is marginal against some enemies and non-existent against most of them.

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9 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

WoF fails as both cc and damage skill, also since it doesnt provide anykind of self buff its also useless in that term.

Its just a terrible skill, soo bad i dare to say it wouldnt hurt anybody if it wouldnt exist anymore.

Fireblast and Accelerant synergizes well, her first is nothing extra its in line with other first skills but her ult is pointless and feels like it should be her first skill and her ult should be something better.

I didn't say WoF was great, I personally think it should be merged into Fireblast as a duration effect and get her something... Phoenix-y. However I see threads everywhere going "WoF too weak doesn't kill stuff pass lv40" and such. But it isn't suppose to be a killer ability only the way the game scales allows you to map wipe or not. It is a passive aura doing extra damage while you do your own damage. The lower range isn't great but if you are moving around you are bound to hit things while shooting and at the very least a strength build is likely to proc heat on things directly next to you which can give you some brief breathing room. Let me put it this way, does it sound broken if the aura did Chroma level weapon damage on a blast? I mean she could sit around killing things up to 200 easy without lifting a finger. And She still has weapons of her own built for Heat doing great damage with Accelerant.

My point was people need to stop looking at Ember as WoF as a main tag. As long as it is just a passive aura and not a stance change (even Chroma's Spectral Scream is a stance change... now that is terrible for everything it does) there is no way to balance WoF to do meaningful damage in meaningful content.

10 hours ago, Calthous said:

The problem is I find it hard to justify using WoF, energy cost gets rather extreme for anything other then quick bursts, and If I use the Ignis Wraith or something with a good heat focus then I never need to worry about WoF. Honestly, I find Accelerant to be her best skill right now, but otherwise I think the other three are in a wierd place right now and could really use a lookover. I wish they tied the overheat theme they seemed to have gone with for WoF a bit into everything else, made her more of a risk/reward type of warframe.

I would almost love to see WoF a duration ability, while Accelerant would become a constant aura ability, though that might be a bit to similar to the current Sayrn meta.

So? Most frames have a "best" skill that overshadows all the rest and usually 1 or 2 decent skills that you can build around for certain cases and 1 that just gets ignored most the time. That is fairly standard. Even then WoF is far from completely useless it is just not equal application everywhere. Fireblast is fine and like most frames their 1s (Fireball) need touch ups but right now Fireball is fairly standard.

WoF use to be duration... they changed it because it was too easy to keep up all the time. It was still too easy to keep up and finally after the meta complaints of the community so you got this. They did the same thing when Hysteria was deemed too potent for the drain.

6 minutes ago, Arcira said:

Anyone can use weapons and her other abilities do even less dps. Also there are far better cc frames with much more surviveability. It has been mentioned that Ember is supposed to be a squishy damage dealer.

Squishy? check

Damage dealer? not at all

Buffer? maybe but a very weak one at best. Aside from weapons like ignis It´s not even rewarding to use heat damage mods let alone asking your team to use them. The ttk benefit is marginal against some enemies and non-existent against most of them.

You people make it sound like I said Ember is amazing and shouldn't be changed at all. Not a single thing I said hints at such a conclusion. However I am always going to question the logic behind thinking WoF should be doing more even if I think the range was hit too hard (only because most melee with PReach can hit outside WoF range). Even Saryn's Spores take more input than WoF. That lack of input is exactly why this happened and yet people want it to do insane damage and still be allowed free weapon use and movement. Unrealistic.

WoF as it is now supplements more as bonus damage and throws around some CC to near by enemies while you do actual stuff by other means. I don't exactly understand the damage dealer point because Chroma is one of thee damage dealers by community standards and he is 90% weapon damage. With Accelerant and heat weaponry Ember can put out numbers to kill 150s simply. Then you can use Flash Accelerant (which would be even greater with the +300% pStr bonus) to team buff heat damage along with placing Fireblast around to add even more Heat on top of it (+50% per ring).

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39 minutes ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

You people make it sound like I said Ember is amazing and shouldn't be changed at all. Not a single thing I said hints at such a conclusion. However I am always going to question the logic behind thinking WoF should be doing more even if I think the range was hit too hard (only because most melee with PReach can hit outside WoF range). Even Saryn's Spores take more input than WoF. That lack of input is exactly why this happened and yet people want it to do insane damage and still be allowed free weapon use and movement. Unrealistic.

I just said if Ember can´t even deal damage there is not much left.

On the other hand your statement sounds like press 4 and forget. The critical thing about WoF isn´t imput but energy management and interaction with Accelerant. The same way you could argue why is your corrosive damage applied passively on your modded puncture weapon? There needs to be more interaction with an additional switch between damage types button. The idea of an aura is to reserve ressources so you can focus on other things.

Nonetheless I don´t even use WoF anymore because of the changes. QT shield is far more important for me atm.

At least there is the choice between random oneshot or stagger to death. But no problem there are 4 revives per mission ... oh wait... guess I have to play perm invis or 100k+ ehp frames now because WoF was so broken that they had to nerf it.

39 minutes ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

WoF as it is now supplements more as bonus damage and throws around some CC to near by enemies while you do actual stuff by other means. I don't exactly understand the damage dealer point because Chroma is one of thee damage dealers by community standards and he is 90% weapon damage. With Accelerant and heat weaponry Ember can put out numbers to kill 150s simply. Then you can use Flash Accelerant (which would be even greater with the +300% pStr bonus) to team buff heat damage along with placing Fireblast around to add even more Heat on top of it (+50% per ring).

The difference is all of Embers buffs apply to heat damage only while chroma increases your overall damage. As I said building heat on regular weapons isn´t beneficial and even weapons like ignis need a resonable amount of corrosive damage for the proc chance. And with his survivability I´d say Chroma is the better Ember.

Edited by Arcira
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I also tried elite missions with 300% strength, it was a shame. I kept wof 100% up and placing rings of fire in tactical places and even so my performance was depressing compared to a mirage, chroma or a 300% oberon.

Edited by xcenic
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56 minutes ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

I didn't say WoF was great, I personally think it should be merged into Fireblast as a duration effect and get her something... Phoenix-y. However I see threads everywhere going "WoF too weak doesn't kill stuff pass lv40" and such. But it isn't suppose to be a killer ability only the way the game scales allows you to map wipe or not. It is a passive aura doing extra damage while you do your own damage. The lower range isn't great but if you are moving around you are bound to hit things while shooting and at the very least a strength build is likely to proc heat on things directly next to you which can give you some brief breathing room. Let me put it this way, does it sound broken if the aura did Chroma level weapon damage on a blast? I mean she could sit around killing things up to 200 easy without lifting a finger. And She still has weapons of her own built for Heat doing great damage with Accelerant.

My point was people need to stop looking at Ember as WoF as a main tag. As long as it is just a passive aura and not a stance change (even Chroma's Spectral Scream is a stance change... now that is terrible for everything it does) there is no way to balance WoF to do meaningful damage in meaningful content.

Most people see Ember with mainly the Wof tag because it replaced the original Overheat effect and later it became the iconic skill of her. It doesnt matter if accelerant is a good buffer skill, its limited too much and need to be recasted for every new enemy.

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6 minutes ago, Arcira said:

The critical thing about WoF isn´t imput but energy management and interaction with Accelerant.

Management was hard at like 2e/sec? I can manage energy on Hysteria for 30min and she has to only use claws with more drain. Even could throw in Warcry and Paralysis when energy permitted. I don't understand. Sure you make sacrifices based on other power usage but throwing out Accelerant every now and then isn't that hard. And the more you kill per cast the more likely you get energy back. That was the initial intent of the energy system. So yes WoF was fire and forget, it was part of the reason this all happened.

16 minutes ago, Arcira said:

The same way you could argue why is your corrosive damage applied passively on your modded puncture weapon? There needs to be more interaction with an additional switch between damage types button.

I have several gripes with how elemental modding works and I rather not get into that.

20 minutes ago, Arcira said:

The idea of an aura is to reserve ressources so you can focus on other things.

To an extent, yes. However the aura isn't suppose to do all your work. That is why it has always traditionally been a fairly weak skill even though in the early days it was by far the best we had. It should have a reasonable effect not an overriding effect. And in a game of mostly statistical damage efficiency, adding damage is a fine line to being UP or OP.

25 minutes ago, Arcira said:

The difference is all of Embers buffs apply to heat damage only while chroma increases your overall damage. As I said building heat on regular weapons isn´t beneficial and even weapons like ignis need a resonable amount of corrosive damage for the proc chance. And with his survivability I´d say Chroma is the better Ember.

I know isn't that great? For a frame to buff Heat damage output to also be able to bestow Heat damage I mean. It doesn't matter how allies build in such cases because you can just add it on. And building Heat damage is fine, especially on shotguns. You can even do it as a second element after a combined. Or use base heart weaponry. Those are the choices you make.

And I wasn't comparing Chroma and Ember on actual worth. They do different things in different ways and you know...  can actually work together. Novel concept I know.

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7 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Most people see Ember with mainly the Wof tag because it replaced the original Overheat effect and later it became the iconic skill of her. It doesnt matter if accelerant is a good buffer skill, its limited too much and need to be recasted for every new enemy.

I am not responsible for people not understanding their tools. Their "iconic" skill doesn't have to be the defacto best skill. It is only really iconic because it is simple, Fireblast has always been the better looking skill as far as Ember goes. As far as limited goes, I can kind of agree. Accelerant should probably help all heat based damage types (even if it is 50% on combined; which is in some circumstances exactly what it is). But that is only really due to how elemental damage is calculated through modding. Again it is one of my several gripes about the modding system. But Accelerant isn't that hard to use. Though Ember could use a "safer" passive that fits her playstyle better, maybe help out Accelerant more (like reduced cast costs for heat kills); her current passive would've fit better in the Overheat days.

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1 hour ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

Management was hard at like 2e/sec? I can manage energy on Hysteria for 30min and she has to only use claws with more drain. Even could throw in Warcry and Paralysis when energy permitted. I don't understand. Sure you make sacrifices based on other power usage but throwing out Accelerant every now and then isn't that hard. And the more you kill per cast the more likely you get energy back. That was the initial intent of the energy system. So yes WoF was fire and forget, it was part of the reason this all happened.

First off it depends on what you are using. Channeling builds, QT, rage, efficiency, energizing dash, energy pizzas, etc. A lot of things ifluence how effective your energy management will be. "It´s easy for me" isn´t really a statement. Secondly Warframe isn´t supposed to be a difficult game in general.

1 hour ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

I have several gripes with how elemental modding works and I rather not get into that.

That´s not the point. It´s about adding pointless restrictions and input just for the sake of make something more interactive. For me the most important things are intuitive gameplay design and smooth mechanics. Not how many bottons I have to press in a certain amount of time. For example the current version of WoF is clunky and restrictive. While playing Ember I can litterally feel that it wasn´t supposed to work this way. However I think this is highly subjective. Maybe there are poeple who like these kind of changes I don´t know.

1 hour ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

To an extent, yes. However the aura isn't suppose to do all your work. That is why it has always traditionally been a fairly weak skill even though in the early days it was by far the best we had. It should have a reasonable effect not an overriding effect. And in a game of mostly statistical damage efficiency, adding damage is a fine line to being UP or OP.

Aside from low level environment WoF didn´t really do the work for you. It was and still is the interaction between WoF and Accelerant. WoF offers the most mobility + damage yes but things like Peacemaker or old Miasma where much more efficient especially because most of the time you where farming endless missions. Even Radial Javelin was much more viable before the line of sight nerf.

A lot people say Ember was always afk farming because of poor interactivity. So when exatly can you do this? The first 10 rounds in some small defense tiles like accad or hydroid maybe. And what else? Tryed afk extermination didn´t work for some reason.

1 hour ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

I know isn't that great? For a frame to buff Heat damage output to also be able to bestow Heat damage I mean. It doesn't matter how allies build in such cases because you can just add it on. And building Heat damage is fine, especially on shotguns. You can even do it as a second element after a combined. Or use base heart weaponry. Those are the choices you make.

I´d agree if heat damage would be somewhat usefull. Prefer a buff to my corrosive, puncture or slash damage though

I don´t use shotguns that much but they need 100% status chance wich is usually only achieved by all 4 status mods right? Where do you get the heat damage from?

1 hour ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

And I wasn't comparing Chroma and Ember on actual worth. They do different things in different ways and you know...  can actually work together. Novel concept I know.

Ye Ember is much more efficient in dying. In high level content your weapon dps and armor strip is much more important for clearspeed and Chroma doesn´t need unreliable cc because he has actual survivability. But it´s good to know that I don´t need to care if I have a Chroma in my team who can carrry my ass ^^.

Edited by Arcira
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Before the changes to world on fire, Ember was a heaping pile of trash with her ultimate being the only thing somewhat useful on lower levels.

After the changes, what has happened? Her damage is still mediocre (barely even that). Her range is strictly worse. Fireball, an ability constantly mocked for its terrible damage, got a charge mechanic lazily tacked on. Fire blast still sucks in general. Her passive is niche and useless (unless you have a javlok).

Ember already has a deluxe skin and a prime skin. Unless there is some sort of wave of Tennogen artists that would like to see and Ember rework, I highly doubt anything will change about her. In the meantime, Equinox will be eating into what used to be ember’s niche with no consequences whatsoever.

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4 minutes ago, ljmadruga said:

Before the changes to world on fire, Ember was a heaping pile of trash with her ultimate being the only thing somewhat useful on lower levels.

After the changes, what has happened? Her damage is still mediocre (barely even that). Her range is strictly worse. Fireball, an ability constantly mocked for its terrible damage, got a charge mechanic lazily tacked on. Fire blast still sucks in general. Her passive is niche and useless (unless you have a javlok).

Ember already has a deluxe skin and a prime skin. Unless there is some sort of wave of Tennogen artists that would like to see and Ember rework, I highly doubt anything will change about her. In the meantime, Equinox will be eating into what used to be ember’s niche with no consequences whatsoever.

ember's niche is buffing heat. so unless equinox all of a sudden is able to buff heat, i dont see that happening. 300% strength buff on ember turns heat into a nuclear disaster.

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vor 5 Stunden schrieb 000l000:

. Nothing can resist accelerant and an Ignis or any decent fire weapon.

Not only pure fire, also combinations...running mine with a plague zaw, what is there that could really withstand a 5 element CO boosted, amplified fire hit on halved health? Hell, a single element on a hybrid keewar+riven is literally the only setup that would allow life strike, what narrows it's users down to a hand full of buffers that gain anything additional from it at all, ember beein one of them.

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Not sure why people are trying to defend Ember. She's a glass cannon with terrible damage scaling in a game where some frames have infinite scaling damage. Interestingly, some of the frames with infinite scaling damage are support themed and/or tanky like Octavia and Gara. Ember has nothing going for her when you look at other frames. She has sub-par CC and unimpressive damage. Her old wide-area niche was only good vs. lower level enemies since her damage scaling was terrible. Meanwhile, Saryn has infinite scaling damage over a very wide area and better survival tools. Ember is a glass cannon that does worse damage than frames with dramatically superior survival and CC.  Buffing fire damage for weapons doesn't seem like an especially useful niche either. Why bring ember to buff damage over any number of generic damage multipliers that work on all weapon damage or in some cases all damage including ability damage which you could bring on frames that can also bring something else on top of that.

Also, her passive is still a joke. 

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1 hour ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Not only pure fire, also combinations...running mine with a plague zaw, what is there that could really withstand a 5 element CO boosted, amplified fire hit on halved health? Hell, a single element on a hybrid keewar+riven is literally the only setup that would allow life strike, what narrows it's users down to a hand full of buffers that gain anything additional from it at all, ember beein one of them.

Just did 2 survival Arbitration runs one with Ember and one with Inaros (both with Lifestrike build). With Ember it was a struggle to keep myself alife. I died after ~15m to a random group of enemies just because I couldn´t clear the drone fast enougth. With Inaros I was constantly switching my youtube background music while standing inside a group of 5-10 enemies firing on me. Didn´t notice a meaningfull difference in damage output. Actually it was a little bit smoother with Inaros because of his finisher opener which is usefull against heavier units.

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vor 10 Minuten schrieb Arcira:

Just did 2 survival Arbitration runs one with Ember and one with Inaros (both with Lifestrike build). With Ember it was a struggle to keep myself alife. I died after ~15m to a random group of enemies just because I couldn´t clear the drone fast enougth. With Inaros I was constantly switching my youtube background music while standing inside a group of 5-10 enemies firing on me. Didn´t notice a meaningfull difference in damage output. Actually it was a little bit smoother with Inaros because of his finisher opener which is usefull against heavier units.

Did 1,5h solo draco the other day with her, gotta have to stop cause my life strike started bugging out.... been busy with mhw recently but i'd immagine it's not even on that level since inaros isn't exactly the most heavy tank without his Cc so i really can't relate.

Just gotta use her kit and build towards survivability, which in her case is pretty much a health+qt build... works splendit for me.

Edited by (PS4)CoolD2108
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Are you talking about ceres draco with an enemy base level of 12?

2 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Did 1,5h draco the other day with her, gotta have to stop cause my life strike started bugging out....

ye and what exactly has that to do with the point that Lifestrike on other frames is at least as efficient as on Ember? Also are talking about draco ceres with an enemy base level of 12? Very impressive you didn´t die out of boredom.

2 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

been busy with mhw recently but i'd immagine it's not even on that level since inaros isn't exactly the most heavy tank without his Cc so i really can't relate.

I´m not sure do you consider ~20x the ehp of ember tanky?

2 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Just gotta use her kit and build towards survivability.

I build her drain tank because her scalings are trash only useful for minor surviability improvements. Maybe the new Adaption mod will help but from my testing so far it´s not as strong on for her as I though it would be. Mainly because of her poor base hp and armor pool. Again a mod that makes already tanky Warframes even more durable.

Edited by Arcira
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