Ember Bad even with the ARB +300%

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Arcira:

 

I sure not do you consider ~20x the ehp of ember tanky?

1,5h is about level 150 with the enemy stream appropiate to the level range. Armored enemies. Is that what we're talking about here? Level 150 armored enemies? Cause you shouldn't really have much of an issue if that's it.

Inaros got the health going for him, otherwise he's pretty medicore with no offense worth mentioning other then blinds and a armor pool of around 1k. You literally get those from arcanes so it's kinda hard to immagine that it's anything but simple user error.

Wasn't that boring btw but pretty chill since wof oneshoted enemies till the 40 minute mark and accelerant raised it to an solid hour. Been playing on my phone till then. Try keeping kills up with inaros that way.

Edited October 16, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Arcira]

1 hour ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

1,5h is about level 150 with the enemy stream appropiate to the level range. Armored enemies. Is that what we're talking about here? Level 150 armored enemies?

K have to test it tomorrow just did a 1h+ Arbitration run with a base lv of 60 which btw didn´t cross the lv 100 mark. Didn´t had any issues with damage there.

1 hour ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Inaros got the health going for him, otherwise he's pretty medicore with no offense worth mentioning other then blinds and a armor pool of around 1k. You literally get those from arcanes so it's kinda hard to immagine that it's anything but simple user error.

1k armor is his base value with mods + ult. Aside from the fact that everyone can use Arcanes but Inaros benefits even more because of the already existing synergy with % armor mods. You can have more than 2k armor with active guardians. That´s more than 50k ehp not even considering the new Adaptation mods. Wouldn´t be surprised if you can achieve 100k+ ehp. For comparison if you´d build a full tank ember with all aviable armor and hp mods you will get about 7k ehp tops.

I don´t have any forma on Inaros but in terms of clearspeed I was at least as efficient as with my 6 forma Ember. No real difference in clearing trash mobs because of my range melee build and against heavy units Inaros clearly has the advantage here with finisher damage. I´m running a efficiency and ehp focused build on Ember though. Very curious about that 300 powerstrength build someone mentioned. I´d like to see how such a build can perform and wheter you can survive more than 3 seconds.

Edited October 16, 2018 by Arcira

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Arcira:

 For comparison if you´d build a full tank ember with all aviable armor and hp mods you will get about 7k ehp tops.

Which you totally need at all times with how she's able to spam all sorts of Cc, starting from accelerants stunlock to WoF's fire proccs... at that point you take just enough damage for rage/hunter to refill your energy on enemies that die allmost instantly...

I'd say for a Cc focused damager/buffer she's tanky enough but i'll give arb a shot. Shouldn't be much of a challenge if they really stay in a level range where WoF usually still kills.

[Arcira]

1 hour ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Which you totally need at all times with how she's able to spam all sorts of Cc, starting from accelerants stunlock to WoF's fire proccs... at that point you take just enough damage for rage/hunter to refill your energy on enemies that die allmost instantly...

I'd say for a Cc focused damager/buffer she's tanky enough but i'll give arb a shot. Shouldn't be much of a challenge if they really stay in a level range where WoF usually still kills.

Wow totally forgot about her awesome 7m aoe aura or that sick firering which definitively work 100% of the time.. in most cases.. ok at least the first time they get hit.. sometimes. And then there is that impressive single target projectile that can do anything weaons can.. only worse. At least you can charge it 2.5 second long for even less dps and a bit more range. Oh right there is that thing you totally don´t have to spam every 3 seconds as well. A pile of trash doesn´t magically trasform it into gold just because it´s a big one.

Also that 7k calc was an over the top example. No Ember player would (beter should) ever consider building this. A regular QT build has about 2-3k ehp which is the tanky Ember version. The KI is designed to miss you a lot but sometimes and if there are enougth enemies around they will hit nontheless. A single lv 100 heavy gunner does ~400 dps against unmodded valkyr prime (70% damage reduction) which is about 1200 dps. You can calculate for yourself how long you will last.

You can feel how you want but the numbers don´t lie. Embers dps/survivability ratio is uterly trash compared to most other Warframes.

In addition DE tends to invent more and more mechanics against offensive abilities. I´m curious when there will be the first enemy absolute immunity to weapon damage.. probably never. There latest version the arbiter drone applies immunity to cc and damage abilities. The only thing left is weapon damage/survivability buffs. But weapons are already op as #*!%. Maybe fulltank Ember isn´t a bad idea after all if this trend continuous.

Edited October 16, 2018 by Arcira

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 22 Minuten schrieb Arcira:

Wow totally forgot about her awesome 7m aoe aura or that sick firering which definitively work 100% of the time.. in most cases.. ok at least the first time they get hit.. sometimes.

What totally matters since she's got accelerant too and since it hits like 3 times per second, what's plenty relyable in those 7m if you're actually playing the game instead of taking your ember for a walk somewhere along the lines of new yorks rush hour...

As i've said, it's been reyalble enough for me to restrict her incoming damage to an ammount that's just right to leech energy off of it till a 150 level range. If that's too much for you in levels way below that then you're probably doing something wrong.

[Arcira]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

What totally matters since she's got accelerant too and since it hits like 3 times per second, what's plenty relyable in those 7m if you're actually playing the game instead of taking your ember for a walk somewhere along the lines of new yorks rush hour...

Ye I could cast a 50 energy spell every 3 seconds or just play a more or less passive immortal Warframe with invisibility or ridiculous ehp scalings. What are you even trying to tell me? Sure that Ferrari is quite nice but .. have you seen my dacia? I bet every Ivara player is impressed by your cute 1.5h draco session.

I have like 30% of my play time with Ember and if I play a random unmodded warframe in different scenarios for the first time and succeed in a missions I failed after several tries with my main you want to tell me there isn´t anything wrong? Ok maybe I´m there worst Ember player in the entire world and all of my build attemts are fundermentally wrong. Or maybe just maybe there is a tiny imbalance in this game.

10 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

As i've said, it's been reyalble enough for me to restrict her incoming damage to an ammount that's just right to leech energy off of it till a 150 level range. If that's too much for you in levels way below that then you're probably doing something wrong.

Just because someone is somehow addicted to spamming buttons or just finished his macros doesn´t mean everyone has to do it. I prefer clever, smooth and intuitive gamplay. If I want to play something that reflect your definition of "interactive" I´m going to install sakura clicker.

[Fallen_Echo]

10 hours ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

am not responsible for people not understanding their tools. Their "iconic" skill doesn't have to be the defacto best skill. It is only really iconic because it is simple, Fireblast has always been the better looking skill as far as Ember goes. As far as limited goes, I can kind of agree. Accelerant should probably help all heat based damage types (even if it is 50% on combined; which is in some circumstances exactly what it is). But that is only really due to how elemental damage is calculated through modding. Again it is one of my several gripes about the modding system. But Accelerant isn't that hard to use. Though Ember could use a "safer" passive that fits her playstyle better, maybe help out Accelerant more (like reduced cast costs for heat kills); her current passive would've fit better in the Overheat days.

In all honestly i would like to see ember reworked into something whats more usefull across all factions.

Ive made the following rework some day ago but it still needs some tuning, would you mind telling what you think about it?

 

Ember, world on fire mode.

Main changes:

Passive: Heat, every enemy and burning fire patch (fireball counts as 1, burning accelerant counts as 2 and fireblast counts as 3) increases the heat by 100 points. Every 100 points increase embers energy by 1 point. Points get removed as soon as an enemy is extinguished.

Accelerant:

Accelerant creates a patch of napalm around ember. When an enemy is on napalm they are under the effect of accelerants damage boost but every time they are damaged by heat based sources the area of napalm shrinks by 1 meter.

Attacking the napalm patch directly with a heat based power sets it aflame for half of accelerants duration, dealing damage equal to the powers damage with half of accelerants damage boost.

World on Fire:

World on fire no longer deals any damage, instead it absorb heat to enchant other skills. Its now a duration based skill.

When casted ember puts out all fire sources and stuns enemies around her in a 25 meter (unchangeable) range for 1 second and consumes the current heat and activates a level of Wof. Heat levels retain their lower counterparts bonuses unless stated otherwise.

 

Level 1, requies 500 points of heat.

Fireblast is changed into firestrike. Charge time is decreased to 0.5 second, the attack is changed to an instanteous hitscan strike, range is increased by 50%

Total duration 30 sec.

 

Level 2, requies 1000 points of heat.

Firestrike now has +100% range instead of +50%, status chance is increased by 25%.

Fireblast is now a hitscan attack what strikes where the user currently aims. Damage is increased by 50%.

Total duration 45 sec.

 

Level 3, requies 2000 points of heat.

Firestrike now deals bonus damage equal to the 5% of the targets current health. Firestrike also generates 300 points of heat per patch now.

Fireblast range is now increased by 50%.

Accelerant now affects all heat based elemental combinations for 50% effectiveness. Status chance of all heat based attacks are increased by 25%.

Total duration 60 sec.

 

Level 4, requies 4000 points of heat.

Fireblast now deal bonus damage equal to 10% of the targets current health. 

Accelerant now increases the status chance of all attacks with heat based elemental combinations too. Napalm range is increased by 25% and consuption rate is decreased to 0.5 meters. It now also generates 600 heat.

 

[(PSN)Eight_BitLegend]

I'm a Ember main and even I'm having problems pushing her to higher level content. Her based stats even as a prime need to be looked at. She has the speed of a tank with none of the benefits of being a tank. Her health is questionably low, to the point prime vigor or vitality is a must. And if DE is stopping her from being OP they have succeeded. She is one of the weakest frames to use. I have to go back and change my build on a daily basis just so I can compete with the other frames in this game. Seriously DE can you buff Ember please.

[Ohmlink]

A defensive ability would help more than damage. Nova gets alot of DR, there's no reason ember can't have some too.

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

On 2018-10-15 at 2:19 AM, ZodiacShinryu said:

You ever stop to think maybe WoF isn't meant to be a main damage source? When WoF is active you have complete use of all her other tools... weapons, other powers, movement. It is a passive aura that 'passively' does damage while hindering nothing. There is absolutely no reason for it to do massive amounts of damage even if I think the target lock and cap is too low since the explosions are single target and not AoE. Suggestion, make more use of Accelerant.

Nope. If everything isn't easy mode in this game then it's broken 

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

I haven't had the chance to play Arbitrations yet, but I've never had an issue dealing damage in Sorties with Ember.

I've never liked WoF, even before the rework, and I'd be happy if it was replaced. Her damage comes from the insane weapon damage boosts she gets from Accelerant and Fireblast. With those her damage output is still better than most frames.

With Quick Thinking and Arcanes I don't have an issue with survivability, but without those I won't really disagree with her squishiness. Forcing you to stay in Fireblast to get bonus damage can be counter productive but i usually drop it on less mobile allies to force the damage boost on them to bring up the team damage overall...since it's a multi-player game and it's not all about me (*hint hint* to Chroma that think Vex Armor is still all about them).

[000l000]

Le 15/10/2018 à 19:19, Arcira a dit :

Squishy? check

Damage dealer? not at all

Buffer? maybe but a very weak one at best. Aside from weapons like ignis It´s not even rewarding to use heat damage mods let alone asking your team to use them. The ttk benefit is marginal against some enemies and non-existent against most of them.

Squishy, every single power she has has a CC, stun, knockdown or literally perma-burning with an augment. If you still die with that, your build or the way you play her must be really wrong. If you're still being killed by Grineer's bleedings, more health and a better use of your operator is your friend. Lots of frame share the same stats than Ember but they aren't complaining all day.

Damage dealer, Accelerant makes every single ability she has a real blast. Ember uses synergies and accelerant is the bread and butter of her kit. If you don't want to use it, that's not DE concern. Most people here are complaining all day long about most frames and don't even have a clue about how their kits are working. WoF deals 2k damage to anyone affected by accelerant, at only 100% power strength and without any augment, every 2-3 seconds. With 200% power and accelerant augment your WoF deals 8k damage and more on dots - And you can still cast other powers or shoot anyone at the same time. Damage dealer, not at all ? Let be serious a sec.

Buffer, if you think that Chroma is a buffer, try accelerant along with a fire based weapon. Of course you need to build a fire weapon so get rid of your umpteenth fully corrosive weapon. With the right augments Ember can buff the entire party, more fire damage, more cast speed and more fire damage, again - What's wrong with that ? Sure augments are optional but if you don't like them, stop complaining cause everything you said is totally wrong. Last time i played her there was this guy in the team who was playing Excalibur (Chromatic and fire), he just didn't believe how much damage he was dealing thanks to me.

If your ember sucks, try another build.

Edited October 16, 2018 by 000l000

[EinheriarJudith]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

 Forcing you to stay in Fireblast to get bonus damage can be counter productive but i usually drop it on less mobile allies to force the damage boost on them to bring up the team damage overall...since it's a multi-player game and it's not all about me (*hint hint* to Chroma that think Vex Armor is still all about them).

a misconception people have is that you need to stay inside fireblasts ring  to boost damage passing through it when you dont.

[Arcira]

2 hours ago, 000l000 said:

Squishy, every single power she has has a CC, stun, knockdown or literally perma-burning with an augment. If you still die with that, your build or the way you play her must be really wrong. If you're still being killed by Grineer's bleedings, more health and a better use of your operator is your friend. Lots of frame share the same stats than Ember but they aren't complaining all day.

Litterally every single argument here is wrong

1.) Every single of Hydroids abilities does damage.. must be the ultimate endgame killing machine right? Just because you have a lot of trash cc doesn´t make it magically a good cc frame. Yòu can´t even remotely compare Embers "survivability" with other frames because thing like invisibility, % damage reduction, or massive ehp pool are cheep and more or less a passive effect while Ember have to sink tonnes of energy into a "maybe it will help" defense. Spamming a 50 energy spell every 3 seconds is your definition of good defense yea?

2.)Maybe I´m doing every thing wrong with my 6 forma and 30% playtime over thousands of hours on Ember. And maybe I´m a god on stuff like my 0.8% playtime loki without a single mod or the 0.2% and 0 forma Inaros I have started to play recently because I´m tired of that bs. Or maybe just maybe there is a tiny little imbalance beteen warframes.

3.) Everyone can use operators, everyone can use Arcanes and everyone can use mods. Stop with these stupid suggestions the game is balance around this as a standart. if everyone gets a +10 your relative strength is untouched. The only things that matters are ability effects and utilisation via base stats for example.

4.) I never said there arn´t any other weak frames but that´s none of my buisness I´m talking about Ember not frame xy.

2 hours ago, 000l000 said:

Damage dealer, Accelerant makes every single ability she has a real blast. Ember uses synergies and accelerant is the bread and butter of her kit. If you don't want to use it, that's not DE concern. Most people here are complaining all day long about most frames and don't even have a clue about how their kits are working.

Either you have no idea what Ember does and did a quick rundown at the wiki or you never actually played her in endgame content. The only somewhat usefull damage improvement is the weapon buff mechanic which has it´s own problems anyway. I did a lot of calculations in this area as well and the ttk increase is maginal. In no world her offensive boni compensate for her poor defenses.

2 hours ago, 000l000 said:

Buffer, if you think that Chroma is a buffer, try accelerant along with a fire based weapon. Of course you need to build a fire weapon so get rid of your umpteenth fully corrosive weapon. With the right augments Ember can buff the entire party, more fire damage, more cast speed and more fire damage, again - What's wrong with that ? Sure augments are optional but if you don't like them, stop complaining cause everything you said is totally wrong. Last time i played her there was this guy in the team who was playing Excalibur (Chromatic and fire), he just didn't believe how much damage he was dealing thanks to me.

If your ember sucks, try another build.

If you think Ember is more of a buffer than chroma I can´t help you anymore. Half of embers buffs don´t even scale with power strength. Can you even imagine how many firerings augmentslots and ability uses you need to get the same effect like the 275% base value of chroma?

And your statement get ride of corresive damage shows how little you know about this game. But I´m curious show me your almighty build. I want to compare your dps values to mine.

Edited October 16, 2018 by Arcira

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb Arcira:

 

2.)Maybe I´m doing every thing wrong with my 6 forma and 30% playtime over thousands of hours on Ember. 

Doing what exactly? Playing her "meta", which was literally standing around in low levels and letting WoF do the work? If you still haven't altered your build and playstyle, yes, yes you are doing everything wrong.

The difference between good and trash Cc is how it acts and what it does. 

Only having access to a single soft Cc with some major wind up, something like single staggers, that is trash Cc.

Hard Cc that is random and bound to a specific location like hydroids tentacles, that is too.

Having a combination of both, soft and hard Cc that are eather instant, fast or passive, that is as good as Cc possibly gets.

But we at least got the issue pinned down... another one of those "ember mains" eh? Try putting a few more formas into her and follow the advice of people who actually did adapt and that laughable level range may just be doable for you.

Edited October 17, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[ShortCat]

16 hours ago, 000l000 said:

Squishy, every single power she has has a CC, stun, knockdown or literally perma-burning with an augment. If you still die with that, your build or the way you play her must be really wrong.

This is an exaggaration. Unmodable 3sec CC will not bring you far. Additionally, frequent use of those abilities defensively is quite taxing on her energy. You can always share your build to enlighten fellow Tenno.

16 hours ago, 000l000 said:

Damage dealer, Accelerant makes every single ability she has a real blast. WoF deals 2k damage to anyone affected by accelerant, at only 100% power strength and without any augment, every 2-3 seconds. With 200% power and accelerant augment your WoF deals 8k damage and more on dots

Lvl 45 Lancer has 7.7k EHP. Congratulations, your 200% PS Ember can kill a trash mob in 7,5 meter range. Ember's damage abilities perform OK-ish till ~ lvl 60 (Lancer needs 3 hits at this point), better against Corpus, but you cannot sustain frequent Accelerant casts at this point anyway. She was and sill is a better weapons buffer, a selfish weapon buffer that is.

17 hours ago, 000l000 said:

With the right augments Ember can buff the entire party, more fire damage, more cast speed and more fire damage, again - What's wrong with that ?

Your party has to build for fire (not optimal in PUGs); Ember has to be nearby all the time to apply Accelerant debuff for maximum performance; you need to reapply Accelerant on each new enemy; this playstyle is generally not recommanded against Corpus (espesially in PUGs). Ember just cannot compete with other buff/debuff Frames, who simply increase all damage dealt with far less trouble applying those effects.

17 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

a misconception people have is that you need to stay inside fireblasts ring  to boost damage passing through it when you dont.

Hey, its me again. While it is indeed not required to stand inside the ring, bullets still have to travel in its vicinity. Any uneven terrain works against it, as it seems to affect bullets approximately up to 1m above/below the ring - don't jump to high or you will lose the bonus 😉 Its buff is not affected by PS, which is good for negative PS builds, but who is running Ember in that way? Additionally, as Ember is modded around 100% Duration you end up with only 20sec at best. I rather spend 25 less energy on Accelerant. Even with all this added fluff, Fireblast is a garbage ability - a donkey with a wig and lipstickis, is still a donkey.

[EinheriarJudith]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

I LITERALLY don't care about the damage (remove it completely if you want, IDC tbh), the only thing that should be reverted is the big range nerf.. because it sucks. She got no protecting ability after all.. And running all 4 range mods only to protect her is ridiculous and kills build diversity..

LMAO what? hahahaha all 4 of her abilities have CC component. time for you to learn how to play ember rather than AFK sit in WoF.

[Xolgys]

play melee only ember, WoF free status proccs fire CO and CC. against armor just use corrosive + heat for synergy with accelerant. even with the reduced dmg from armor it does dmg since u lower armor anyway. its really handy to have WoF for a melee only frame build and since ur melee anyway the nerfed range is hardly an issue. only trouble are nullies, as so very often~

[EinheriarJudith]

1 minute ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

I've never afk sat anytime in this game for 4 years. The current ember sucks and is not fun to play, not to mention the "wannabe synergies" they gave her. I'm pretty sure if Pablo touched her she would be golden, fun to play, scaling with real synergies. That's what I want ember to be, not this forced and boring mess.

ember is a blast to play im not like some people who are lazy and dont want to move around and want to reach enemies they cant even see. you have no idea how good that range reduction on wof actually is. you do realize that WoF can only have 3  explosions while its maintained? you do realize that if those 3 explosions are off screen the power might as well be off? oh wait thats right you probably dont.

ember is a heat buffer. always has been, and always will be. pablo? lmao completely over buffed saryn pushing her back to press 4 spam then they put a fix on her now she just needs press 1 then 4 saryn is probably the most boring frame to play because of ability to coat the map in lethal damage almost effortlessly.

[Xolgys]

vor 30 Minuten schrieb EinheriarJudith:

ember is a blast to play im not like some people who are lazy and dont want to move around and want to reach enemies they cant even see. you have no idea how good that range reduction on wof actually is. you do realize that WoF can only have 3  explosions while its maintained? you do realize that if those 3 explosions are off screen the power might as well be off? oh wait thats right you probably dont.

ember is a heat buffer. always has been, and always will be. pablo? lmao completely over buffed saryn pushing her back to press 4 spam then they put a fix on her now she just needs press 1 then 4 saryn is probably the most boring frame to play because of ability to coat the map in lethal damage almost effortlessly.

so, equinox 4 is effort ? mesa 4 ? volt 4 ? frost 4 ? mag 3 + 4 ? ash 4 ? octavia 1 + 3 + 4 ? all the CC abilities which make enemies literally helpless ? rhino 4 ? nova 4 ? nezha 4 and whoever i forgot. saryn was underrated for the longest time and even despite that she was still similarly powerful due to the toxin procc spread. many frames can do the same or even more dps with abilities, mesa for example. only downside is line of sight but mesa doesnt die vs enemy lvls against which saryn is already dead for good. dont just look at the strong aspects, also look at the actual downsides later in the game. Ash is the opposite example: he scales with enemies but with a typical blade storm build enemy level/armor becomes nearly trivial. noone complains hes too strong, right ? check the slash proccs from blade storm on a 5x or higher combo multiplier. again, only downside line of sight but in terms of actual power and late game viability hes far superior, theres just no mattering content for him right now. just an example.

now dont tell me "theres no point vs enemies 100+ or even 150+ anyway so screw that" or i would ask u, which content do u want to use as a comparison ? average starchart lv 25 ? these enemies die from Nyx's Psychic Bolts so these lvls are pointless anyway.

on another, general note: when ppl complain about every frame that can do well in ESO or elite alterts one after another will this end in complaints about trinity not being able to outkill anybody there even with all other frames being nerfed at that point ? saryn is popular now for once, yea, if she gets a kill-nerf it will be volt, or equinox, or mesa....or or or. this cycle never ends.

i do very much agree on ember tho. shes fun although i rarely play her lately but shes still totally fine. she has her level limit after which shes not really good anymore but many many frames have that and shes totally viable for ESO or elite alerts ~1h so theres no real reason to complain. fire naturally has a weakness called shields/armor so sure it falls off once that becomes a general issue for players to deal with but still, that doesnt make her completely useless. a premade team with 4x CP and her WoF still does good dmg, same for everything else including the weapon synergy with accelerant and FB +heat damage. many just relied on 4 and thats it before her changes and that alone doesnt work too well anymore unless its high range only for CC.

Edited October 17, 2018 by Xydeth

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 29 Minuten schrieb (XB1)Cubic Clem:

Not sure why you assume I glorified afk play or whatever, but you clearly can't read. Good day. 

If you played her prechange then that's most likely what you did cause that's all she was used for and honestly all she could do if you activated WoF at all.

[EinheriarJudith]

4 minutes ago, Xydeth said:

so, equinox 4 is effort ? mesa 4 ? volt 4 ? frost 4 ? mag 3 + 4 ? ash 4 ? octavia 1 + 3 + 4 ? all the CC abilities which make enemies literally helpless ? rhino 4 ? nova 4 ? nezha 4 and whoever i forgot. saryn was underrated for the longest time and even despite that she was still similarly powerful due to the toxin procc spread. many frames can do the same or even more dps with abilities, mesa for example. only downside is line of sight but mesa doesnt die vs enemy lvls against which saryn is already dead for good. dont just look at the strong aspects, also look at the actual downsides later in the game. Ash is the opposite example: he scales with enemies but with a typical blade storm build enemy level/armor becomes nearly trivial. noone complains hes too strong, right ? check the slash proccs from blade storm on a 5x or higher combo multiplier. again, only downside line of sight but in terms of actual power and late game viability hes far superior, theres just no mattering content for him right now. just an example.

now dont tell me "theres no point vs enemies 100+ or even 150+ anyway so screw that" or i would ask u, which content do u want to use as a comparison ? average starchart lv 25 ? these enemies die from Nyx's Psychic Bolts so these lvls are pointless anyway.

on another, general note: when ppl complain about every frame that can do well in ESO or elite alterts one after another will this end in complaints about trinity not being able to outkill anybody there even with all other frames being nerfed at that point ? saryn is popular now for once, yea, if she gets a kill-nerf it will be volt, or equinox, or mesa....or or or. this cycle never ends.

i dont defend map wipe. im on the side that wants to see it completely removed from the game. ive also said many moons ago that CC that covers the entire map completely removing any threat needs to be removed as well. no where did i say equinox was effor or mesa aim bot (because thats what it is). but frost 4  doesnt cover the map, mags 3 and 4 dont cover or CC the map, nova's 4 only slows enemies in which you can still be shot and even then i said a few times they should remove time scale from it. ive said many times limbo needs a rework. im not oblivious to any of the happenings currently but ember gets a ridiculous amount of unwanted hate because people either cant AFK, they cant face tank, or they cant neuter the entire map with CC to a point maybe its time DE stops making frames squishy since people want to avoid the responsibility of using parkour.

saryn has been popular ever since -duration Miasma when it was corrosive. her popularity didnt just start with her 2.0 and 3.0

[MickThejaguar]

On 2018-10-15 at 12:09 PM, 000l000 said:

Nothing can resist accelerant and an Ignis or any decent fire weapon.

You don't need Ember for an Ignis to shred through someone. The dependence on meta weapons to perform well speaks volumes of her current state.

[EinheriarJudith]

5 minutes ago, MickThejaguar said:

You don't need Ember for an Ignis to shred through someone. The dependence on meta weapons to perform well speaks volumes of her current state.

DE made it so trash weapons stay trash. i dont know what you mean by meta weapons but she can literally turn any weapon that has a decent heat boost into a natural disaster.

[MickThejaguar]

5 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

DE made it so trash weapons stay trash. i dont know what you mean by meta weapons but she can literally turn any weapon that has a decent heat boost into a natural disaster.

The person I was responding to mentioned the Ignis, so I assumed he specifically meant the Ignis Wraith, a meta weapon. I haven't seen any Embers whatsoever that weren't running around with an Atomos or Ignis Wraith, both of which are extremely potent weapons in their own right, so it comes of as disingenuous when someone mentions how much damage they do with Ember with those weapons equipped.