People missing the point of arbitrations

[DeathDweller]

So some time ago i had this conversation about endless missions and people who whine about being hostage after 5 minutes into missions which were meant for farming and surviving as long as you can.

So DE gave us Arbitrations, a mode that rewards you the longer you stay and people still come (unprepared of course) and leave after 1 rotation so

the remaining player(s) have to:

1 either stay and break their fingers trying to solo them(interception for example)

2 leave and have to wait 1 hour for the next one 

The single extraction argument was tolerable before as someone could be clearing the chart or getting into missions for different reasons than the rest but now what's the excuse?Can we for once think of those who want to play a mode as it's meant to be played instead of the trolls?

And no typing and searching for a group each time you want to do anything in this game isn't acceptable, some times the players you get matched with, aren't in your region and others there isn't much time left for searching.

So in the end if we can't expect from people to be ethical and think about the others before joining something they can't handle, then DE needs to make restrictions somehow to prevent this.As we can see no matter the mission or the purpose of it, the same ones who cried about staying in endless for 20 mins are ruining a mode that is not meant for them as well.

Edited October 15, 2018 by DeathDweller

[Videatur]

2 minutes ago, DeathDweller said:

So some time ago i had this conversation about endless missions and people who whine about being hostage after 5 minutes into missions which were meant for farming and surviving as long as you can.

So DE gave us Arbitrations, a mode that rewards you the longer you stay and people still come (unprepared of course) and leave after 1 rotation so

the remaining player(s) have to:

1 either stay and break their fingers trying to solo them(interception for example)

2 leave and have to wait 1 hour for the next one 

The single extraction argument was tolerable before as someone could be clearing the chart or getting into missions for different reasons than the rest but now what's the excuse?Can we for once think of those who want to play a mode as it's meant to be played instead of the trolls?

And no typing and searching for a group each time you want to do anything in this game isn't acceptable, some times the players you get matched with aren't in your region and others there isn't much time left for searching.

So in the end if we can't expect from people to be ethical and think about the others before joining something they can't handle, then DE needs to make restrictions somehow to prevent this since, as we can see no matter the mission or the purpose of it, the same ones who cried about staying in endless for 20 mins come to ruin a mode that is not meant for them as well.

sorry but where are more rewards? The drop remains fixed in rotation C, so we have the same amount of endo and drop of statues. There is not an increase of endo after the rotation C is exceeded, it will always remain rotation C. I'll add the possibility of going out even in survivals.

[DeathDweller]

4 minutes ago, dw3t said:

sorry but where are more rewards? The drop remains fixed in rotation C, so we have the same amount of endo and drop of statues. There is not an increase of endo after the rotation C is exceeded, it will always remain rotation C. I'll add the possibility of going out even in survivals.

That's the point it remains C instead of going A A B C again.That and the higher level enemies is the whole point this mode exists in the first place.

Edit:And i'm not talking for after C.So far 90% in the missions i have joined, people leave at A B

Edited October 15, 2018 by DeathDweller

[Videatur]

Just now, DeathDweller said:

That's the point it remains C instead of going A A B C again.That and the higher level enemies is the whole point this mode exists in the first place.

1:15hr interception (16 round) enemies lvl = 100. Higher level?

[DeathDweller]

1 minute ago, dw3t said:

1:15hr interception (16 round) enemies lvl = 100. Higher level?

Higher starting level and as i edited above i'm not talking for after C but before 

[Squeekly]

I know a few Mr 20sthat still need the cryotic for Sibear, great way to do two things. 

[low1991]

12 minutes ago, DeathDweller said:

So DE gave us Arbitrations, a mode that rewards you the longer you stay and people still come (unprepared of course) and leave after 1 rotation so

So... using this as a basis.

DE have all the reason to increase the duration per interval from 10mins (current survival Art) to 1hr?

[Videatur]

2 minutes ago, DeathDweller said:

Higher starting level and as i edited above i'm not talking for after C but before 

Ok but this is unfortunately the public match. people, especially if low MRs do not want spend hours on a mission.

 

Just now, low1991 said:

So... using this as a basis.

DE have all the reason to increase the duration per interval from 10mins (current survival Art) to 1hr?

first reward after 1 hour? 1300 endo after an hour?

[DeathDweller]

1 minute ago, low1991 said:

So... using this as a basis.

DE have all the reason to increase the duration per interval from 10mins (current survival Art) to 1hr?

No, remove single extraction.Not the best way but i can't really think of anything else as it comes down to the players to be responsible before joining and you can't restrict that.

[DeathDweller]

5 minutes ago, dw3t said:

Ok but this is unfortunately the public match. people, especially if low MRs do not want spend hours on a mission.

 

 

That was my point in regular endless missions, why join in the first place but now it's distincted.You want to stay less than full rotation go regular why come into Arbitrations for 1 2 rotations?The ayatan treasure?

Edited October 15, 2018 by DeathDweller

[Videatur]

1 minute ago, DeathDweller said:

That was my point in regular endless missions, why join in the first place but now it's distincted.You want to stay less than full rotation go regular why come into Arbitrations for 1 2 rotations?The ayatan treasure?

unfortunately not everyone has the time or the desire and 1300 + 1600 endo can be enough every hour. Removing the chance to leave will be a problem for everyone, bc anything can happen and someone needs to go out.

[DeathDweller]

5 minutes ago, dw3t said:

unfortunately not everyone has the time or the desire and 1300 + 1600 endo can be enough every hour. Removing the chance to leave will be a problem for everyone, bc anything can happen and someone needs to go out.

Vodyanoi gives 1000 endo per 5 mins.There's no point to join Arbitrations having that in mind and if you are going only for endo.

If anything happens then the player who leaves doesn't get rewards and the rest can stop when then round is over.

Edited October 15, 2018 by DeathDweller

[Lahared]

42 minutes ago, DeathDweller said:

So in the end if we can't expect from people to be ethical and think about the others before joining something they can't handle, then DE needs to make restrictions somehow to prevent this.As we can see no matter the mission or the purpose of it, the same ones who cried about staying in endless for 20 mins are ruining a mode that is not meant for them as well.

I don't think you should ever expect people to be thinking in an ethical way when they're most likely just trying to have fun playing a game. They already made it stricter by making it a requirement to complete the entire star-chart. Even with a squad that was made beforehand, there's a possibility you'll still run into the very thing you claim to be an issue. It's been like this for a while and probably will continue to be in the near future.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Lahared

[Nasrol]

7 minutes ago, DeathDweller said:

No, remove single extraction.Not the best way but i can't really think of anything else as it comes down to the players to be responsible before joining and you can't restrict that.

Personally, I would like to see the reward checkpoints dropped back down to 5 waves (def), 1 round (intercept), 5 minutes (survival) etc. But only have the option to extract available once rotation C is reached. That way they are not a massive time sink and players need to factor in their equipment choices to make it to the end successfully. IMO, It makes them less time consuming to do, especially for those wanting to reach rotation C, stops early leavers and gives a small element of challenge as the player has to survive to rotation C to make an exit with their loot. I would even suggest death should cause you to lose all rewards, to stop players just dying / quitting to keep a reward who don't want to stay. I acknowledge that is not going to be a popular suggestion. :)

There are other things I would have liked to see them do but that's not relevant to this thread.  

[Nez-Kal]

Players currently leave early for one of three Reasons:

1.) To Avoid the Crash : Get the Reward, Get Out. That's currently how it is for some players who, like me, have missed out on SEVERAL of the new Mods due to the Game Crashing for one reason or another. It's a brand new game-mode, with brand new (and Old) coding issues and problems that can cause it to come crashing down at any moment. So, a lot of Players will take the Reward they get, and jump on out before a Crash Occurs. Better to get that 1,300 Endo, then to play for 3 rounds, and lose everything, AND have to wait 20-30 minutes for the next Alert to open.

2.) They Got the Mod/Reward They Wanted : Similar to the first, Players got what they wanted, and are outta there. Sometimes to avoid the crash as seen in reason #1, or sometimes because they want to move onto other things. (Examples being Kuva Flood, Friends, Fissures, Trade Chat, Etc.)

 

3.) They just Don't Like You/The Squad : Lets be honest, we've all been in a squad before and decided "...Yeah....No." and left at the earliest possible convenience. Some stick around for the first reward, others just ditch the moment they see that Max Range/Duration Limbo in the Defense. Players don't have to play something or with someone they don't like, and sure, sometimes this does ruin it for everyone else in the Squad.

Long story short, Recruit Chat or Friends this Game-Mode. You're gonna be slightly better off, and the benefits with Friends is you can yell at them and shame them later.

[DeathDweller]

1 minute ago, Lahared said:

I don't think you should ever expect people to be thinking in an ethical way when they're most likely just trying to have fun playing a game. They already made it stricter by making it a requirement to complete the entire star-chart. It's been like this for a while. Even with a squad that was made beforehand, there's a possibility you'll still run into the very thing you claim to be an issue.

Well i don't that's why i said to restrict the extraction.Having fun by ruining others goal is trolling imo and the star chart isn't much of a restriction took me 5 days when i started playing.Leaving for x reason in a squad doesn't give you the rewards and problem solved but it's one thing to have a squad and something will come up and you agree to leave and another to have this in every mission.

 

5 minutes ago, Nasrol said:

Personally, I would like to see the reward checkpoints dropped back down to 5 waves (def), 1 round (intercept), 5 minutes (survival) etc. But only have the option to extract available once rotation C is reached. That way they are not a massive time sink and players need to factor in their equipment choices to make it to the end successfully. IMO, It makes them less time consuming to do, especially for those wanting to reach rotation C, stops early leavers and gives a small element of challenge as the player has to survive to rotation C to make an exit with their loot. I would even suggest death should cause you to lose all rewards, to stop players just dying / quitting to keep a reward who don't want to stay. I acknowledge that is not going to be a popular suggestion. 🙂

There are other things I would have liked to see them do but that's not relevant to this thread.  

Yeah i guess that could work also

[(PSN)WeeMalk5]

Unless you have discussed and agreed with the other squad members on how long you plan to play for, they are not leaving early.

[DeathDweller]

14 minutes ago, Tangent-Valley said:

Players currently leave early for one of three Reasons:

1.) To Avoid the Crash : Get the Reward, Get Out. That's currently how it is for some players who, like me, have missed out on SEVERAL of the new Mods due to the Game Crashing for one reason or another. It's a brand new game-mode, with brand new (and Old) coding issues and problems that can cause it to come crashing down at any moment. So, a lot of Players will take the Reward they get, and jump on out before a Crash Occurs. Better to get that 1,300 Endo, then to play for 3 rounds, and lose everything, AND have to wait 20-30 minutes for the next Alert to open.

2.) They Got the Mod/Reward They Wanted : Similar to the first, Players got what they wanted, and are outta there. Sometimes to avoid the crash as seen in reason #1, or sometimes because they want to move onto other things. (Examples being Kuva Flood, Friends, Fissures, Trade Chat, Etc.)

 

3.) They just Don't Like You/The Squad : Lets be honest, we've all been in a squad before and decided "...Yeah....No." and left at the earliest possible convenience. Some stick around for the first reward, others just ditch the moment they see that Max Range/Duration Limbo in the Defense. Players don't have to play something or with someone they don't like, and sure, sometimes this does ruin it for everyone else in the Squad.

Long story short, Recruit Chat or Friends this Game-Mode. You're gonna be slightly better off, and the benefits with Friends is you can yell at them and shame them later.

For the endo issue i' ll say again there are better farming ways but ok i'll accept the crash issues

Now for the mod/rewards and some other could be there for a different reward.Why should he get ripped of his?

If they don't like the squad they have 10 minutes to get out.If i'm not mistaken the mission gets completed if either you exit normally or die.If that's not the case it should be looked at.

And as i said above the chat isn't always the answer some times there aren't many people in region or you could have just logged in and see that you got let's say 3 minutes left for the alert.At least they should put an automatic queue board for each mission.

[DeaHamlet]

Point 1:

You will never agree with randoms. The end. 

You want ABCCCC, they just want ABC or only have time for that. Doesn't matter if you disagree that they only want A, the argument will keep escalating. I've met people in fissures wanting to run 40+ mins while others wanted to leave at 20. Who wins? 

Point 2:

You don't know why they want to leave. 

Maybe they want to leave because they keep having to cover two interception nodes because a doofus keeps wondering around not keeping his node covered. Maybe too many excavators blew up or mob spawn is getting so bad each excavator is taking 6+ mins due to lack of power packs. Maybe they need to leave, you know irl. Maybe they only planned to do ABC. Maybe they didn't realize just how awful defense is and want to gtfo asap!

Point 3:

Who decides what is long enough? We already have people being held prisoner when they shouldn't be. But who is the deciding factor? You? One person wants A, another ABC, another ABCCCC, another go until you're all dead. Who is right and should hold everyone else prisoner? 

Point 4:

Survival is already far less liked even in fissures if you go alone because someone else gets to pick when you can go. You can go in expecting 20mins, but some dudes want to go until they can't anymore, even over an hour. Makes survival not as appealing as defense. Interception was the least liked because it's annoying to continue without 4 at times and often you got people who didn't grasp that they need to hold the nodes. It is only liked right now because it's the least annoying arbitration with the least impact from bugs.

Point 5:

If you're doing arbitration, unless it's one you like with party that seems capable, why wouldn't you leave in time to see the next offering?! Staying 1.5 hrs in defense when an interception could be up by then... Why?! Masochist much? 

---

Nobody should be held hostage. And yes, if you want to stay there long, bring enough people that you can go as long as you want. 

In pugs I go as long as people want most times, especially if I'm host and announce when I have to go. Most times I play with at least two friends. That way we can always continue and we are never anyone's prisoner. If I see in a pug that someone needs to go, I will often join them and end the map. I don't want to force anyone to leave xp and loot behind to go do what they need to do. And often they are nice announcing they need to go. 

 

You can always ask the pugs how long they are staying and leave if no answer or you don't like the answer. 

Make friends or recruit otherwise. Maybe DE should give you a lfg akin to DDO where you could post in a list what you expected, people could see and apply, and then you could reject or accept. No whispers required. 

 

[O2D3nTe]

Yesterday someone died somewhere between rotation B and C but didn't leave the mission. We then got to C and extracted, as we were only 2 players left. Do the guy who died and stayed still get rotation C reward ? That would be messed up, and easily exploitable.

I'm annoyed at people living Arbitration in rotation A, as I'm annoyed at people leaving the ESO after 2 rounds, but blocking extraction is not the way to go in my opinion. I think you should lose all rewards on death though.

[DeathDweller]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)WeeMalk5 said:

Unless you have discussed and agreed with the other squad members on how long you plan to play for, they are not leaving early.

So if me and my friends want to go to capture and a random joins but we want to stay 20 mins for x reason it's ok for him to wait because we didn't agree in anything with him?I don't join public missions if i have another agenda.I could just join random and do rivens and the others do the mission.That's why solo and public exist in the first place for when you want something specific, you solo it or create a squad else you go public having in mind that in co-op games you aren't the center of attention.At least that's what i do.

[DeaHamlet]

5 minutes ago, O2D3nTe said:

Yesterday someone died somewhere between rotation B and C but didn't leave the mission. We then got to C and extracted, as we were only 2 players left. Do the guy who died and stayed still get rotation C reward ? That would be messed up, and easily exploitable.

I'm annoyed at people living Arbitration in rotation A, as I'm annoyed at people leaving the ESO after 2 rounds, but blocking extraction is not the way to go in my opinion. I think you should lose all rewards on death though.

You afk while dead so they did not get rotation C reward. Unless your game messed up, you get the rotation reward if you were not considered afk by the game when it completed. So that guy got rotation A and B reward. If he was the host, he did you a favor by not leaving and messing up your game with host migration. That's how many lost mods. 

You should still get rotation rewards while alive. If death lost you rewards for all, a ton would ALWAYS extract after A and the OP's problem would multiple. It's a stupid idea and would make arbitrations dead content. We already saw what DE does with content that is very very unpopular, yes? Best not to go overboard or you'll lose your toys. 

[DeathDweller]

9 minutes ago, DeaHamlet said:

Point 1:

You will never agree with randoms. The end. 

You want ABCCCC, they just want ABC or only have time for that. Doesn't matter if you disagree that they only want A, the argument will keep escalating. I've met people in fissures wanting to run 40+ mins while others wanted to leave at 20. Who wins? 

Point 2:

You don't know why they want to leave. 

Maybe they want to leave because they keep having to cover two interception nodes because a doofus keeps wondering around not keeping his node covered. Maybe too many excavators blew up or mob spawn is getting so bad each excavator is taking 6+ mins due to lack of power packs. Maybe they need to leave, you know irl. Maybe they only planned to do ABC. Maybe they didn't realize just how awful defense is and want to gtfo asap!

Point 3:

Who decides what is long enough? We already have people being held prisoner when they shouldn't be. But who is the deciding factor? You? One person wants A, another ABC, another ABCCCC, another go until you're all dead. Who is right and should hold everyone else prisoner? 

Point 4:

Survival is already far less liked even in fissures if you go alone because someone else gets to pick when you can go. You can go in expecting 20mins, but some dudes want to go until they can't anymore, even over an hour. Makes survival not as appealing as defense. Interception was the least liked because it's annoying to continue without 4 at times and often you got people who didn't grasp that they need to hold the nodes. It is only liked right now because it's the least annoying arbitration with the least impact from bugs.

Point 5:

If you're doing arbitration, unless it's one you like with party that seems capable, why wouldn't you leave in time to see the next offering?! Staying 1.5 hrs in defense when an interception could be up by then... Why?! Masochist much? 

---

Nobody should be held hostage. And yes, if you want to stay there long, bring enough people that you can go as long as you want. 

In pugs I go as long as people want most times, especially if I'm host and announce when I have to go. Most times I play with at least two friends. That way we can always continue and we are never anyone's prisoner. If I see in a pug that someone needs to go, I will often join them and end the map. I don't want to force anyone to leave xp and loot behind to go do what they need to do. And often they are nice announcing they need to go. 

 

You can always ask the pugs how long they are staying and leave if no answer or you don't like the answer. 

Make friends or recruit otherwise. Maybe DE should give you a lfg akin to DDO where you could post in a list what you expected, people could see and apply, and then you could reject or accept. No whispers required. 

 

I won't answer all of this cause its a huge wall of text i'll just say 2 things

1 If anyone goes in with the intention of staying only until A better go solo.Leeching of the rest and then ruining the run is just wrong.I could do the same by having him hostage.So i guess cause if someone have the opportunity to do something he must abuse it.

2 When joining public expect to stay at least full rotation.You have 10-20 mins to discuss with the rest meanwhile about extracting.And yes you can agree with randoms like 99% of the time.I just don't see the point why everyone acts like they are solo in public.

[DeathDweller]

21 minutes ago, O2D3nTe said:

Yesterday someone died somewhere between rotation B and C but didn't leave the mission. We then got to C and extracted, as we were only 2 players left. Do the guy who died and stayed still get rotation C reward ? That would be messed up, and easily exploitable.

I'm annoyed at people living Arbitration in rotation A, as I'm annoyed at people leaving the ESO after 2 rounds, but blocking extraction is not the way to go in my opinion. I think you should lose all rewards on death though.

You know ESO is getting abused cause of xp farm(wrong) but i'm ok with this cause you go in with the mind that you know this is a place that you can farm so expect it.But seeing someone leaving after an ayatan treasure reward is beyond me the guy who left didn't get anything out of this and the rest were just forced to wait another interception.

The ABC 15 mins without extraction a guy mentioned above seems like the best solution atm.

[PurrrningBoop]

42 минуты назад, O2D3nTe сказал:

Yesterday someone died somewhere between rotation B and C but didn't leave the mission. We then got to C and extracted, as we were only 2 players left. Do the guy who died and stayed still get rotation C reward ? That would be messed up, and easily exploitable.

Yesterday a host left the at ~17.30 mark in survival, me and another player were killed during migration due to us relying on our abilities to survive. Thanks to the last player we managed to complete the mission and get the reward. 
 
Found on WF wiki:  
 

• Failing the mission keeps any rewards earned at the end of a rotation but not the resources or credits the enemies dropped. 

Now for the guesswork: I think that you will keep the rewards you have earned while still being alive, don't know about the rest.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Cephalon_9.52
Updated.