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Warframe Has Some Issues...


(PSN)thefallenloser
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DE, I love you guys, the game's cool and all, but god is a lot of it just boring or tedious.

I've been playing the gamer since right before The Second Dream was released and it was fun to me for a while, but recently, with me pretty much having most of what I want in the game (excluding cosmetics, #FashionFrameISEndGame), I've really been feeling that drought of anything interesting to do in the game.

I really just need to vent about what I feel about the game in the back of my mind, so apologies in advance if I come off a little harsh.

Don't really have a particular order to this, so I'm just gonna' talk about whatever pops into my head.

_______________

Grind, Grind, Grind

  • Look, I understand that it's a grindy game, but of you're gonna' make us grind this much at least make it fun or interesting. The mot annoying part of it all is when the grind is actively nerfed or the need to grind is increased in favor of either keeping us grinding for longer or making us do it your (boring) way. It's mainly just "find this thing, find that thing, scan this, kill this, these have a chance to spawn, play this same boring mission over and over again until you get lucky."

Enemies/Bosses

  • Grineer enemy types are the most generic things ever, Corpus enemy types make me want to swan dive into wet cement, and Infested are too easy. Bosses fights are the most uninteresting things ever. Mostly just filled to the brim with crappy invincibility phases. Not a single boss in the game is interesting or fun to fight. Eidolons are close, but there needs to be more variety. And let's not even get started on The Sergeant.

Events

  • Why are they so boring, jeez? It's mainly "gather this new resource so you can do this thing and fight this thing and now you have something so Lotus says DO IT AGAIN". Events were exciting in the past from what I could see, like with The Gradivus Dilemma, which rallied the entire community of players against each other. I watched a video by AGGP that talked about the degradation of events. Events used to be things to introduce new game modes and mechanics with some lore or important event tied to them that got players excited. Now they're just dropped in the game. 

Ranking Up

  • Lots of Hydron, which is just boring. A useless system such as Mastery being tied to progression does not indicate the players Mastery of anything, especially when it's more of your teammates ranking this up for you with Affinity. It more so indicates how long you farmed XP. 

Archwing

  • The controls are an absolute mess and the Archwing specific levels are horrible for the most part, with their tiny corridors whilst moving at near mach speeds.

Conclave

  • Balancing mess, which ties players to only use a few specific things to have any chance of winning, which in turn makes it generally not fun.

Characters

  • Why should I care about any of them? We hardly have an emotional connection with them so are we just supposed to pretend to? This is especially bad for characters such as the Lotus and Teshin, seeing as sometimes the game just makes us pretend like we care about them in quests.

Quests

  • Ever so slightly more interesting than normal missions. I only play for the story. Not challenging at all. Would hope for more innovative gameplay or activities.

Lore

  • Whoever's idea it was to put important lore behind grindwalls and outside sources like YouTube and the Wiki, why, just why? Why can't we access or play through the lore automatically. We must we go actively search for lore that we don't even know is important? Why can't the game just introduce us to more of the lore naturally?

New-Player Experience

  • Speaking of outside sources, I also need to talk to the person that put important information all on the wiki and not in the actual game. Imagine if Google didn't exist when you're a new player.

End Game

  • End game should be fun, interesting, challenging, and most importantly: rewarding. But end game in Warframe straight up doesn't exist. And to have people complaining about the lack of end game content in the game for 4+ years and you still not producing any is honestly quite insulting, because it then gets to a point in which there's no real reason to play the game after a new update is released and you're finished with that bit of content.
Edited by (PS4)ArtPrince17
(Added More Points // 10.16.2018)
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while i agree that games is grindy and every time i play another defense mission i fall asleep by wave 9 in broad daylight

i beg your pardon lore is okay. story quests are to tell the story not make you play flappy bird so you'd wreck your house before you even get the point

spreading world building lore around the world is what makes bethesda games even remotely tolerable to play at all,

i don't see anyone calling snooping around terminals/books grinding for lore in skyrim/fallout

and if you cant scan get a bloody helios

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so OP, i guess youre with me when i say warframe needs a true campaign with context and true bosses with fight transitions and S#&$?

warframe right now feels like if you were to download red dead redemtion and there is no story, youre just a cowboy with a machinegun on a big empty desert

Edited by Lisztomaniac
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3 hours ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

Ranking Up

  • Hydron. Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron! Jeez could it be something more interesting than this crap?

I thought it was already agreed that sanctuary onslaught is currently the best place to do it...

 

3 hours ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

New-Player Experience

  • Speaking of outside sources, I also need to talk to the person that put important information all on the wiki and not in the actual game. Imagine if Google didn't exist when you're a new player.

You do know that the wiki is totally made by players, and not by DE, right?

But I agree the game doesn't have good tutorials to teach you basics.

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18 hours ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

Ranking Up

  • Hydron. Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron, Hydron! Jeez could it be something more interesting than this crap?

Archwing

  • delete this bs

Conclave

  • delete this bs

This speaks volumes.

You genuinely don't seem to enjoy the game, or at least you've done everything you want. It is OK to not play.

16 hours ago, Lisztomaniac said:

so OP, i guess youre with me when i say warframe needs a true campaign with context and true bosses with fight transitions and S#&$?

This is not Warframe now and I don't see that happening at any point in the future.

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I thought you said this was a veteran post. From the sounds of it youre only half done with the stuff in the game.  And have only played a little over a year.  Normally a veteran would say "we have no end game! And why are arbitrations only starting to get a little diffucult 50+ minutes into the game" not complaining about needing to actually do things to get further in the game.  

And as an actual veteran,  i think you make some decent points but most of that is due to little variety of mission types, and the fact that "mastery rank" keeps getting tied to progression,  which objectively is ludicrous since youre hardly mastering a weapon or frame by letting your team mates kill things for you, and the fact the exp numbers are so skewed towards endless missions giving the most that you only ever really find teams running those. 

To actually improve the game you need to remove the content ties to mastery and instead tie them to actual progression like starchart completion/ how many different mods owned/ anything that actually shows what youve earned and done as a player rather than forcing people to build, rank and sell weapons just for mastery sake so they can use better ones.  And then the exp system needs to change.  Style kills like wallrun kills etc should reward more exp than simple body shots etc.  That way ranking weapons and frames could go faster depending on how you played rather than what you played.  

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2 hours ago, LuckyCharm said:

I thought you said this was a veteran post. From the sounds of it youre only half done with the stuff in the game.  And have only played a little over a year.  Normally a veteran would say "we have no end game! And why are arbitrations only starting to get a little diffucult 50+ minutes into the game" not complaining about needing to actually do things to get further in the game.

For one:

22 hours ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

I've been playing the game since right before The Second Dream was released

And have done the Starchart, every quest, gotten all the Frames (except Vauban, I can't stand him lol), gotten many weapons. I'm uh... pretty much done with the bulk of the content. Secondly, I'm not on PC so Arbitrations are completely irrelevant to me at the moment. Third, end game should start with enemy balances (i.e. making them hard to fight but also fair).

3 hours ago, (XB1)Eminem2420 said:

These forums are not really for venting. They are for feedback. Telling them "I don't like this, so delete it." Tells them nothing, and is not constructive.

True, probably should've wrote this when I was in a better mood, like now lol. I'll revise and add in some stuff.

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Yeah this game has a lot of fundamental flaws imo..it kind of drives me nuts that ytubers act like this game is perfect and that anyone who says anything negative about it on reddit is downvoted. It's like a cult. Also first time i noticed that the bosses are rly bad in this game..good point.

Edited by cuddlykrogan
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6 hours ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

Third, end game should start with enemy balances (i.e. making them hard to fight but also fair).

I agree with this, though for that to happen it has to have a complete rebalance of the energy system and the warframes themselves. The reason enemies aren't hard or fair is because if they were they'd die instantly or be locked down to the point where they couldnt do anything ever. It's still like that in most content that doesn't have corpus units. Since you said you started just before the second dream let me set the scene of how it used to be when I started..

For starters there was no forma, you had your mod slots and potatos and that was it, but skills also had to be equipped into mod slots so you were even more limited in what you could do. There was no energy pads, and energy vampire only gave energy to people actively shooting the enemy it was cast on. Nullifiers weren't a thing, neither were combas and scrambus. Corrupted mods weren't released because the void hadnt even been released yet. Weapons had a base max of around 50 damage for melee and slightly higher for primaries. 

So basically we didn't have the tools to lock things down completely, keep our energy topped up, or nuke everything before it was even seen, and weapons did a lot less damage so running out of ammo in extended runs was a real issue that had to be modded for. What made all this fun though was that while the ai was stupid, they also didn't have the ability to shut out your skills either so when you did get to cast the skills you had equipped with the limited energy available to you it mattered tactically since you needed to spend your energy to the best effect. It was still a hoarde shooter, but the hoarde could easily overrun you if you weren't careful. 

 

Since those times though with power creep and constant additions to this "power fantasy" things have just lost all that extra skill you needed to use and have just become spam whatever will kill everything fastest. Some of the additions were good, but the power creep and energy availability really removes the ability to balance enemies to be fair, since what we're fighting them with is no longer fair. 

 

I'm also sorry for my earlier post. A year and a half is still plenty long enough to see the flaws in this game, it just feels like many newer players here want things handed to them easily rather than having to work for them like we did by doing events, farming for those rare stance mods etc so when people get things easy it negates the effort people put in prior to it and it's rarely recognised in this game. 

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Hey,

while I fortunately haven't seen the before-revision version of your main post, the after-revision looks way better and sounds reasonable. I especially agree that the Mastery Rank system could use some rework, because right now it's an endless grind and it's final numbers are always going to be locked beyond timed exclusives.

 

As for Enemies and Bosses, I would suggest that the Damage 3.0 implementation would remove the mods for "Damage to Grineer/Corpus/Infestation %" which is not used at all, as well as removing the "Damage %" (eg. Pressure Point) which is always going to be used, meanwhile rescaling the enemies properly with their values over all the levels, so that the screen of the players doesn't end up being flooded with too many digits, and so that some higher leveled NPCs don't end up being indestructible by their armour.

In this one there would be some viable build specialisation, with a mod slot that has always been the 'meta' being removed players could finally add an even further touch of specialisation into their own weapons. The old weapon mods could get refunded in credits and endo for their upgrade costs, as well as a platinum/ducat refund for their primed variants (perhaps based on current market's average).

Making combat more engaging is vital, and also making numbers manageable and builds less 'one meta' would be just as vital to the game variation, and it would keep players engaged into combining and trying out even more different styles.

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2 hours ago, (PS4)nating51 said:

Warframe: the only addictive game that makes people upset 'cause they've nothing more to do...after thousands of hours on it 😂 😂😂

Probably because all those other games make content harder and harder through the years rather than easier and easier like warframe does. So with every new thing getting easier all it does is make the current "high level" content less and less fun to play cus it's no longer the challenge it was but you have no where else to take your now fully leveled stuff

 

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7 minutes ago, LuckyCharm said:

Probably because all those other games make content harder and harder through the years rather than easier and easier like warframe does. So with every new thing getting easier all it does is make the current "high level" content less and less fun to play cus it's no longer the challenge it was but you have no where else to take your now fully leveled stuff

 

Which games?

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On ‎2018‎-‎10‎-‎15 at 9:29 PM, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

Enemies/Bosses

  • Grineer enemy types are the most generic things ever, Corpus enemy types make me want to swan dive into wet cement, and Infested are too easy. Bosses fights are the most uninteresting things ever. Mostly just filled to the brim with crappy invincibility phases. Not a single boss in the game is interesting or fun to fight. Eidolons are close, but there needs to be more variety. And let's not even get started on The Sergeant.

I absolutely agree, at least for the main tilesets. Looking at PoE enemies, DE has proven that they can make interesting enemy designs, as everything on PoE has a purpose: Snipers, Bombards and Mortar Bombards limit camping, regular troops act as fodder, Reavers and Flamblades act as aggressive-front line assault melee troops, Predators CC you, Heavy Gunners and Napalms act as long-range support for fodder enemies, Hellions, Dargyns, Ogmas and Bolkors serve as air support, Noxes are mini-bosses and Ghouls act as ambush shock troops on the rare occasions they get involved. Every enemy type provides a functionally different experience that takes advantage of the space available. Even from what we've seen of the Orb Vallis, we've already got deployable turrets, multiple types of flying units and Nullifiers in a space where they're fair (i.e. you can see them coming and they're not likely to bunch up.), not to mention the spiders. Including the Big Boss spiders which might actually get aggressive, as opposed to Eidolons.

Compare that with tilesets where areas are either too cramped or enemies have no variety. Hellions and Flameblades are rarely seen and usually don't have line of sight with the player to use their individual abilities in a worthwhile way. There might as well be no difference between the melee enemy types. Bombards have no real weaknesses making them a chore to fight. Noxes have a rushdown attack despite there rarely being a large amount of room to dodge... you get the picture.

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My feelings on the game echo a lot of your thoughts here. There is much room for improvement on existing content in Warframe.

I feel like the "lack of end game", in particular and like many other issues, can be traced back to the modding system. Being able to quite literally do exponentially more damage with any given weapon than it will do baseline is absolutely broken, and it causes a domino-effect of other broken stuff throughout the game - things being either too challenging or not at all, gimmicks and setups becoming more important than how you play, bosses only being difficult by virtue of invulnerability phases and unintuitive 'shoot here to get to the next stage' zones; all of these, to me, are symptoms that trace back to the game being centered around a modding system that echos Mass Effect 1's in every worst possible way.

It's worth saying that the power-gap mod system in Mass Effect was one of that game's *downsides*, and was pretty much universally criticized as far as I know.

I feel the biggest change DE could make for the health of the game is to start directly addressing mod balance and relevance. The damage system, the armor system, enemy scaling, boss design, all these other things that are commonly complained about could be solved as a matter of course, IF the underlying core problem of the mod system is faced head-on.

p.s. I quite dislike much of the attitudes of responders here on the forums. It's not as bad as some forums I've been on, but...every time I come here, I swear I can detect the smell of sulfur.

Edited by TheGreenGunner
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