DawnoftheWhiteFury Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 (edited) I'm not sure if this is a bug so I'm putting this here. Apparently if you are playing as a Nekros, and you get a host migration during a mission, it completely resets the pool from which Nekros is able to summon his shadows. In other words, he no longer can use Shadows of the Dead until more enemies are killed, even if you had a large stockpile before the Host Migration. Meaning if you are in a long going endless mission, and you get a host migration while playing Nekros, you are most likely screwed beyond belief while trying to kill some enemies to get that enemy pool back since Shield of Shadows is how Nekros has any sort of end game survivability. This is especially a problem in Arbitrations where if the host dies during one and leaves as a result, this can subsequently lead to your own death if you are playing as Nekros. Can we please get a change for this? This really messes with Shield of Shadows builds and it punishes players at no fault of their own. FYI, I am not talking about the power being deactivated upon Host Migration. I am referring to the pool of data that contains the enemies that Nekros has killed to fuel his shadows being reset as being the problem. Accentuating this for those that still don't seem to get it: I am not referring to powers deactivating/being turned off on Host Migration. I am referring to the loss of the resource Nekros needs in order to even use Shadows of the Dead at all. Host Migration deletes all stored data of enemies that Nekros has killed for use with Shadows. Killed enemies are a resource like stacks are for Nidus and therefore should not be lost upon Host Migration. Edited October 16, 2018 by DawnoftheWhiteFury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiIIion Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 As a big fan of Nekros Prime, this definitely needs to be fixed or outright reworked. Losing that Shield of Shadows with no chance of recast while fighting Lvl 100 enemies is an immediate death sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnoftheWhiteFury Posted October 15, 2018 Author Share Posted October 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, R.O.G.U.E. said: As a big fan of Nekros Prime, this definitely needs to be fixed or outright reworked. Losing that Shield of Shadows with no chance of recast while fighting Lvl 100 enemies is an immediate death sentence. Nidus doesn't lose his stacks, to my knowledge, upon Host Migrations. I don't know why Nekros' Shadows pool is completely reset. His shadows are an integral part of his gameplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryme Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 (edited) 53 minutes ago, DawnoftheWhiteFury said: Nidus doesn't lose his stacks, to my knowledge, upon Host Migrations. I don't know why Nekros' Shadows pool is completely reset. His shadows are an integral part of his gameplay. Because your stacks are tracked as resource like your hp, shields, and energy. Shadows are spawned ingame assets on a timer that gets reset with migration. Happens with a frost bubble, loki/ash invisibility, iron skin, consecrated ground, vortex, etc. Edited October 15, 2018 by Ryme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)TEKKENGOD420 Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 Correct me if I’m wrong (been a long time since I took him to the point you can be downed) but I believe this also happens if you are downed while solo and revive yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnoftheWhiteFury Posted October 15, 2018 Author Share Posted October 15, 2018 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Ryme said: Because your stacks are tracked as resource like your hp, shields, and energy. Shadows are spawned ingame assets on a timer that gets reset with migration. Happens with a frost bubble, loki/ash invisibility, iron skin, consecrated ground, vortex, etc. Not talking about spawned shadows. Im talking about the pool in which Nekros draws his shadows from, aka the enemies he has killed to fuel it. Killed enemies are a resource to fuel Shadows of the Dead, just like stacks are for Nidus. The power is not only turned off upon Host Migration, but it also removes all data of killed enemies from his pool. In other words, he loses the ability to cast the power again until he kills more enemies. This is a huge issue in ongoing, end game endless missions where Nekros can be killed with one shot without his shadows. And as stated in OP, this is an even bigger issue in Arbitrations. Powers being turned off during a host migration is fine. What isn't fine is Nekros losing all stored enemy data to fuel his shadows. Enemies killed by Nekros should be treated as a resource. Edited October 15, 2018 by DawnoftheWhiteFury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnoftheWhiteFury Posted October 15, 2018 Author Share Posted October 15, 2018 (edited) 37 minutes ago, (PS4)TEKKENGOD420 said: Correct me if I’m wrong (been a long time since I took him to the point you can be downed) but I believe this also happens if you are downed while solo and revive yourself. It makes sense to lose the data on enemy kills if Nekros dies because that (usually) is player fault. Its incentive to not die. Same thing happens with Nidus. It however isn't player fault to lose them due to a Host Migration. Edited October 15, 2018 by DawnoftheWhiteFury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KosmicKerman Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Yes this sucks but it’s not exclusive to Nekros. Lots of frames lose built up abilities on host migration as mentioned above. I would love to see this fixed for all frames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnoftheWhiteFury Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, KosmicKerman said: Yes this sucks but it’s not exclusive to Nekros. Lots of frames lose built up abilities on host migration as mentioned above. I would love to see this fixed for all frames. Again, not referring to the power itself. This is the third time lol I even updated the description of the post. I can't be any more clear than I have. Im not referring to the power itself being turned off upon host migration. I am referring to the complete loss of all built up data Nekros has on enemies he has killed being lost on host migration, the data used to FUEL Shadows of the Dead. What other frames other than Nidus absolutely require a resource such as stacks for Nidus or killed enemies for Nekros in order for one or more of their powers to be used at all? I dont understand why this is so hard to get. Without enemies in this pool he draws from, Nekros cannot use Shadows despite being a resource under the same qualifications as Nidus stacks. Therefore they should be treated the same. Edited October 16, 2018 by DawnoftheWhiteFury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KosmicKerman Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 I completely understood what you wrote. It sucks for all frames not just Nekros. For example, let’s say I have a 150k iron skin on Rhino and then there is a host migration. I lose that skin and can’t get it back. I have to rebuild it just like you have to rebuild your shadows. Same goes for Gara. If DE is going to fix host migrations they need to fix it for all frames. Quit with the special pleading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnoftheWhiteFury Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 (edited) 23 minutes ago, KosmicKerman said: I completely understood what you wrote. It sucks for all frames not just Nekros. For example, let’s say I have a 150k iron skin on Rhino and then there is a host migration. I lose that skin and can’t get it back. I have to rebuild it just like you have to rebuild your shadows. Same goes for Gara. If DE is going to fix host migrations they need to fix it for all frames. Quit with the special pleading. Except none of the examples you gave require a specific resource in order to even be activated. As long as you have the necessary energy upon the Host Migration, you can recast the power on the spot. That is not the case with 2 of the powers belonging to Nidus and Nekros' Shadows of the Dead. Without stacks/killed enemies respectively, you cannot activate the powers. Period. Except in the case of Nidus, he keeps his stacks (his necessary resource) between Host Migrations. Nekros does not keep his resource, aka enemies he has killed, between Host Migrations and this is a huge issue for him as a frame as once a Host Migration occurs the power of Shadows of the Dead is rendered inoperable until enemies are killed. Which, as stated in the OP, is very difficult to do without dying if this occurs during an end game endless mission. This is especially true in Arbitrations where Host Migrations are common and you have no revives. I agree that powers shouldn't be deactivated upon Host Migrations but that isn't the topic of the thread. That is a much larger issue that would require its own thread. I have no idea what "special pleading" even means, but the topic of the thread is treating enemies killed by Nekros as resources the same way stacks are treated for Nidus so they arent lost upon Host Migration. You are the one getting off topic as is everyone else thats misunderstood the topic of the thread. Nekros and Nidus are the only ones being brought up because they are the only frames in game (again unless Im forgetting someone) that require a unique resource in order to activate one or more of their powers and they should be treated the same. Edited October 16, 2018 by DawnoftheWhiteFury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KosmicKerman Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Whatever dude, recasting iron skin or gara’s splinter storm does not return them to their previous values. Those values have to be rebuilt. All you have to do to recast shadows is to kill a half-dozen enemies. No biggie. I would wager what you are really upset about is not the inability to recast shadows but the loss of the high-level enemies you carefully collected. And this is no different than other frames that build their damage buffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnoftheWhiteFury Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, KosmicKerman said: Whatever dude, recasting iron skin or gara’s splinter storm does not return them to their previous values. Those values have to be rebuilt. All you have to do to recast shadows is to kill a half-dozen enemies. No biggie. I would wager what you are really upset about is not the inability to recast shadows but the loss of the high-level enemies you carefully collected. And this is no different than other frames that build their damage buffs. It doesn't return them to their previous values yes, but they again don't require specific resources to get these values back. Not only that, but this damage is much more easily obtained as Iron Skin is based on incoming enemy damage taken and Splinter Storm is reliant on repeated casting and destroying of Gara's wall in order to build up damage. Thats easily done without dying as Iron Skin renders Rhino completely invulnerable and builds up AFTER casting, and Splinter Storm grants 90% damage reduction AND Gara is invulnerable when casting her wall. Shadows of the Dead doesn't work this way. Nekros, without his shadows, has very little in terms of survivability. His entire ability to tank relies on Shadows, again as does Nidus with his stacks. Trying to get enough kills back to be able to recast Shadows of the Dead to get a substantial enough damage reduction buff from Shield of Shadows without dying against level 100+ enemies can be a daunting task, especially again in Arbitrations. Keeping shadows from earlier in the mission allows Nekros to continue to survive long enough to kill the scaling enemies to keep up his ability to survive. Its a cycle. The only person who seems to be upset here is you based on your wording and mannerisms. Never once did I bring up the levels or types of enemies, only that enemies are lost period because they are the source of Nekros' ability to survive in end game content due to Shield of Shadows. Never did I mention the offensive purposes of his shadows because that isn't the point of end game Nekros builds. The point is to use the shadows to tank. Edited October 16, 2018 by DawnoftheWhiteFury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KosmicKerman Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 My point is simply, in my opinion, Nekros doesn’t need special treatment from other frames. If DE is going to fix host migration issues they should fix them for all, or most, frames. If you are playing at a high enough level that losing shadows is fatal then that’s going to be just as fatal to Rhino because 6-7k iron skin is insufficient at higher levels. Also, it’s not like you are without options. Use creeping terrify and go kill some enemies to rebuild your shadows. Host migration issues should be fixed but not on an ad-hoc frame-by-frame basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnoftheWhiteFury Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, KosmicKerman said: My point is simply, in my opinion, Nekros doesn’t need special treatment from other frames. If DE is going to fix host migration issues they should fix them for all, or most, frames. If you are playing at a high enough level that losing shadows is fatal then that’s going to be just as fatal to Rhino because 6-7k iron skin is insufficient at higher levels. Also, it’s not like you are without options. Use creeping terrify and go kill some enemies to rebuild your shadows. Host migration issues should be fixed but not on an ad-hoc frame-by-frame basis. It isn't giving special treatment because its not changing the fact that his powers are turned off. The change, for however many times it is now, is to give him the same treatment as Nidus and allow him to keep the shadows he has in reserve during a host migration. It isnt to prevent his shadows from being deactivated on Host Migration. Im in agreement that that should be a sweeping change across all frames, but Nekros works differently from literally every other frame in the game other than Nidus in terms of his shadows so obviously he should be given different treatment. That being treatment being the same as Nidus. Doesnt make him a special snowflake, thats a silly argument. Differently operating aspects of a game deserve different treatment and this is a separate issue from the "host migration turning off active powers" one as described more times than I can be bothered to count. it simply doesnt make sense for Nidus to not lose his unique resource while Nekros does. Edited October 16, 2018 by DawnoftheWhiteFury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texrei Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Your killing count resets after host migration. I lose my overshields after migration, why so? Are they a sort of buff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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