DE's mishandling of Endgame Content Matchmaking.

[VeryInky]

The title of this thread is harsh but true. When you queue for a match on any node but more specifically, Index, Eidolons or Arbitrations what usually happens? 

For me, 90% of the time you get thrown into a group of 2-3 people and immediately pushed into a loading screen before you have time to even say hi or to evaluate your team's composition.

This is extremely frustrating with eidolons. You're pushed into a squad with maybe 2 meta frames, and no experience.  Heaven forbid you don't have 20mins to sit in recruiting chat to filter through people with the correct Focus, proper builds and experience before night cycle. One word. Frustrating.

And now this problem has infected Arbitrations. It's great that we now have actual endgame content now, you can't get an mr 5 that happened to complete the right quest to queue up, you need 100% star chart completion. We are slowly developing a Meta for arbitrations, since surviving to the last possible minute is important, it is great to have a Phoenix Renewal Oberon in your party along with whatever your mission calls for. Endgame Excavation gets difficult with no defensive frames. Whatever META is developing for this or team comp is almost immediately stomped by whatever the Arbitration bonuses are. So you will join a corpus excavation with like a Nezha, Rhino, Nidus, Octavia with the wankiest weapons on because of a ceramic dagger damage bonus.

The matchmaking makes this even worse. As soon as you queue you're shoved in to the game with no chance to maybe tell your team to take off Corrosive Projection on your corpus mission or that maybe you dont need 3 rhinos to do a grineer defense. It would be nice if for specifically (but not exclusively) Eidolons  and Arbitrations, people with in game Mics could be paired with their peers. And maybe if we do get paired into a 4 man squad, we don't have 4 seconds to get our composition together. 4-man readies to start Eidolons and Arbitrations would be a nice start, and in the context of pre game only, vote to kick. For example, queue for Arbitrations, you don't have a timer right off the bat, have a chance to discuss your auras, what meta you want to run or someone can deviate from that if they have favorable bonuses. Then when all 4 people are ready and they hit accept we get a 10 sec timer, 3 people can votekick if they think that maybe a Zephyr would be less useful than a Frost with some augments on a defense arbitration. 

 

Just my frustrations and thoughts put into a possible solution for the current mess of endgame matchmaking. Frankly we need a better solution than "Just use recruiting chat."

Recruiting chat is clunky and slow even with filters. Maybe you'll get someone who can fill your role w the right aura and focus. But probably not.

Anybody that has used recruiting chat over your friends list for tridos 3x3 or higher can attest to this.

DE pls fix

[JaycemeSwain]

There is clans and twitch streamers willing to be dedicated to this. DE for the most part have been tailoring on keeping the game casual. There is also a case of learn to do the content solo. Soloing the tridolons and arbitrations is 100% doable

[Lewtenant]

A draft matchmaking option would be cool. Between public and friends only. Puts you in a lobby with a pub group but doesn't start timer. Maybe with Law of Retribution style loadout display.

[VeryInky]

6 minutes ago, JaycemeSwain said:

There is clans and twitch streamers willing to be dedicated to this. DE for the most part have been tailoring on keeping the game casual. There is also a case of learn to do the content solo. Soloing the tridolons and arbitrations is 100% doable

But what if I'm in my own clan, heaven forbid. DE is ok to keep the game casual. But endgame content attracts more serious players, and we need a better system for those players other than just a clan. And doing endgame content solo in a 4 player Co-Op game? Are you serious? Haha if you're a good solo player Maybe you can get 2x3 done in a night cycle. Or you could find a god team and run 5x3 in a cycle. Soloing an arbitration for more than 1 rotation... Hahahaha. Only a sick masochist would want to do that. Have fun on Interception with that.

Edited October 15, 2018 by VeryInky

[rune_me]

3 minutes ago, VeryInky said:

But what if I'm in my own clan, heaven forbid. DE is ok to keep the game casual. But endgame content attracts more serious players, and we need a better system for those players other than just a clan. And doing endgame content solo in a 4 player Co-Op game? Are you serious? Haha if you're a good solo player Maybe you can get 2x3 done in a night cycle. Or you could find a god team and run 5x3 in a cycle. Soloing an arbitration for more than 1 rotation... Hahahaha. Only a sick masochist would want to do that. Have fun on Interception with that.

That's why there's a recruit chat.

[JaycemeSwain]

you realize that warframe has been casual for a pretty long time and that due to that, the "endgame" isn't that challenging. Oberon or Chroma can easily solo tridolons with the right build.

[Limbo_Darkness]

First things first. The Arbitration system shouldn't have a meta, due to the bonuses, which are actually good. Secondly, join a community. It isn't hard, and this is a small issue relatively. If recruit chat isn't working for you, maybe head over to the Warframe discord. There is always plenty of people there ready to help. And my last thing to say, votekick is not something that should be added. If you want to votekick someone for using zephyr, then that's your problem. Adding votekick can and will be abused by jerks if they can get their hands on it if they think you aren't worth having on the team.

[VeryInky]

1 minute ago, rune_me said:

That's why there's a recruit chat.

Apparently literacy is not your strong suit. Did you read the bottom of my OP?? Like seriously. When i said "

Frankly we need a better solution than "Just use recruiting chat."

Recruiting chat is clunky and slow even with filters. Maybe you'll get someone who can fill your role w the right aura and focus. But probably not."

Did you just ignore that part?

[rune_me]

Just now, VeryInky said:

Apparently literacy is not your strong suit. Did you read the bottom of my OP?? Like seriously. When i said "

Frankly we need a better solution than "Just use recruiting chat."

Recruiting chat is clunky and slow even with filters. Maybe you'll get someone who can fill your role w the right aura and focus. But probably not."

Did you just ignore that part?

It's not really, though.

Sure if you are looking for someone to do an archwing mission with you, good luck finding that. But if you are looking for eidolon hunting or ESO, it'll take you about 30 seconds in recruit chat to find a group.

[VeryInky]

2 minutes ago, Limbo_Darkness said:

First things first. The Arbitration system shouldn't have a meta, due to the bonuses, which are actually good. Secondly, join a community. It isn't hard, and this is a small issue relatively. If recruit chat isn't working for you, maybe head over to the Warframe discord. There is always plenty of people there ready to help. And my last thing to say, votekick is not something that should be added. If you want to votekick someone for using zephyr, then that's your problem. Adding votekick can and will be abused by jerks if they can get their hands on it if they think you aren't worth having on the team.

I agree that we don't just need a 4 frame META for arbitrations, but are you serious? You're the person to bring limbo into endless survival arbitrations arent you? If you want to actually take advantage of a C rotation you can't just pub fill and hope for the best, you will get constant trash can players. And what makes you think votekick will immediately be abused? Because you say so? 3/4 people believe you would make a somewhat decent contribution to the Arbitration then what reason is there to votekick? I can't not like someone Ive just met.

[VeryInky]

1 minute ago, rune_me said:

It's not really, though.

Sure if you are looking for someone to do an archwing mission with you, good luck finding that. But if you are looking for eidolon hunting or ESO, it'll take you about 30 seconds in recruit chat to find a group.

Again you can find a group. But "A group" is probably 3 frames running Zenurik and no one with Itzal or more than 5 Hydro caps. It really is pretty bad if you're looking for anything more than "H Trido need {role & role} PM " 

[rune_me]

1 minute ago, VeryInky said:

I agree that we don't just need a 4 frame META for arbitrations, but are you serious? You're the person to bring limbo into endless survival arbitrations arent you? If you want to actually take advantage of a C rotation you can't just pub fill and hope for the best, you will get constant trash can players. And what makes you think votekick will immediately be abused? Because you say so? 3/4 people believe you would make a somewhat decent contribution to the Arbitration then what reason is there to votekick? I can't not like someone Ive just met.

Public is not a problem. Just expect the rest of the group to be trash before hand and you'll be fine. Getting C rotation from arbitrations in solo is hardly difficult, so you can probably do it with a group of randos as well.

[colonelugainar]

@OP I understand what u mean! It is Called MatchMaking!! its what is should do!!

[VeryInky]

8 minutes ago, JaycemeSwain said:

you realize that warframe has been casual for a pretty long time and that due to that, the "endgame" isn't that challenging. Oberon or Chroma can easily solo tridolons with the right build.

Of course you can solo endgame im not arguing. But show me a person that can solo a 5x3. I'll wait.

[Limbo_Darkness]

Just now, VeryInky said:

I agree that we don't just need a 4 frame META for arbitrations, but are you serious? You're the person to bring limbo into endless survival arbitrations arent you? If you want to actually take advantage of a C rotation you can't just pub fill and hope for the best, you will get constant trash can players. And what makes you think votekick will immediately be abused? Because you say so? 3/4 people believe you would make a somewhat decent contribution to the Arbitration then what reason is there to votekick? I can't not like someone Ive just met.

Really? Are you messing with me just because of my username? No. I am not that kind of person, and use Limbo for MD and E. Also if you want to go to C rotation, you perfectly can go into a pubsquad. I know hundreds of people who do. What makes me think votekick will be abused? I have spent about 1k hours of ingame time. I've been in this community for a long time and can say that people will abuse this just because "ugh a *insert frame here player". I am yelled at it all the time, with no justifiable reasons. 

[VeryInky]

1 minute ago, rune_me said:

Public is not a problem. Just expect the rest of the group to be trash before hand and you'll be fine. Getting C rotation from arbitrations in solo is hardly difficult, so you can probably do it with a group of randos as well.

Well I mean randos are pretty bad i agree with you there. But i've had too many experiences of Limbo's dying on rotation A corpus excavation then his buddy sitting at extraction because his buddy died. Honestly pubs are disgusting. And rotation C is achievable on solo yes but do you really wanna Solo 6 Interception waves for rotation C?! Especially since enemies interception caps are buffed. Haha glhf.

[rune_me]

2 minutes ago, VeryInky said:

Again you can find a group. But "A group" is probably 3 frames running Zenurik and no one with Itzal or more than 5 Hydro caps. It really is pretty bad if you're looking for anything more than "H Trido need {role & role} PM " 

Yeah sure, if you want max efficiency, then you need friends or a clan. That's just how it is. I don't really see how there's any system that will ever change that. Or you join a group in recruit and then try to communicate with them before starting the actual mission.

If the only players looking to join a team are people with less than 5 hydro caps, then no new system introduced will change the fact that the only players looking to join a team are people with less than 5 hydro caps.

[VeryInky]

4 minutes ago, Limbo_Darkness said:

Really? Are you messing with me just because of my username? No. I am not that kind of person, and use Limbo for MD and E. Also if you want to go to C rotation, you perfectly can go into a pubsquad. I know hundreds of people who do. What makes me think votekick will be abused? I have spent about 1k hours of ingame time. I've been in this community for a long time and can say that people will abuse this just because "ugh a *insert frame here player". I am yelled at it all the time, with no justifiable reasons. 

Again. one person that hates Limbo but the other 2 see inherent value w him in a defensive mission. You couldn't be votekicked in that scenario.

[Limbo_Darkness]

Just now, VeryInky said:

Again. one person that hates Limbo but the other 2 see inherent value w him in a defensive mission. You couldn't be votekicked in that scenario.

Except 81% of the time, it's all 3. It still surprises me how much hate Limbo players consistently get.

[VeryInky]

9 minutes ago, 6066 said:

@OP I understand what u mean! It is Called MatchMaking!! its what is should do!!

For casual content that's fine. And i'm not saying you have to cater public matchmaking on endgame content to 5x3 players and stuff but public matchmaking is straight trash for anything other than Nodes, Index and Sortie.

[VeryInky]

1 minute ago, Limbo_Darkness said:

Except 81% of the time, it's all 3. It still surprises me how much hate Limbo players consistently get.

Maybe to you. But ever since they removed his Stasis freezing team mate's bullets and projectiles, most people dont mind him assuming he doesnt Catalyst a console so no one can hack it etc. He actually works really well with exalted weapon frames like Mesa and Excal.

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

20 minutes ago, VeryInky said:

Maybe to you. But ever since they removed his Stasis freezing team mate's bullets and projectiles, most people dont mind him assuming he doesnt Catalyst a console so no one can hack it etc. He actually works really well with exalted weapon frames like Mesa and Excal.

That still doesn't change the fact the general community at large hates Limbo due to his past mechanics and the Rift's mechanics as a whole. Does it make much sense to hate on Limbo now? Not really, no, but hate hardly ever makes sense.

It just means you personally don't see an issue with him in his current state. You are the minority, whether you're right or wrong about Limbo. I can tell you from experience that people outright leave the game or constantly yell at Limbo players unless they're in a MD. Taking him into an Eidolon run is usually met with cynicism and spite, for example.

Edited October 15, 2018 by (XB1)Graysmog

[SneakyErvin]

There are already plenty of systems in place to help with this.

Joining a clan dedicates to this, using recruitment chat dedicated for this, adding people dedicated to this to your friends list. I mean, this is how games work mostly. Even in WoW and other MMOs the chat, clan and friends list are your friends (no pun intended, or maybe it was). RDF in WoW is not very different from public games here outside of having the option to queue as tank, dps or heals since it is a trinity game.

If you want a specific setup you need to go to chat, clan or friends. Why should it be different here? It isnt like arbitrations are hard.

The thing they could do is remove the gimmick buff to a random frame or weapon, no serious person uses it anyways unless it happens to be for the frame/weapon you already use.

[AzureTerra]

There are ways and means around this ~ primarily its called building your squad and not just randomly jumping in with PUGs. The game does not need a "better matchmaker" when nothing is better than handcrafted.

Edited October 16, 2018 by AzureTerra

[butka1998]

2 hours ago, VeryInky said:

Apparently literacy is not your strong suit. Did you read the bottom of my OP?? Like seriously. When i said "

Frankly we need a better solution than "Just use recruiting chat."

Recruiting chat is clunky and slow even with filters. Maybe you'll get someone who can fill your role w the right aura and focus. But probably not."

Did you just ignore that part?

Then god forbid you from playing games like Destiny 2 where you wait for players to do raid with you even 3 hours..... Recruiting chat is more than fine for this stuff and its far better system than some other games have... And theres no time before night on plains? Depends on you when you start you have an hour and half at max and thats more than long enough to get the team you want.

And for arbitrations? Dayum they are easy with 90% of my builds so public matchmaking is no problem at all... All you really need for those is good build and good primary or secondary to shoot down the drones. (worst case scenario use rhino that you can get after 15 hours into game and you will be just fine)

Also some of the stuff you have written is quite confusing you can always invite friend first and then join public matchmaking... And I dont see any reason why you should care what others bring if you arent trying to be extremely efficient on eidolon or go for run longer than an hour...