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Why Zaws were a bad idea..


(PSN)remo_yesman
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Okay, lemme start by saying I love me zaw, to the point were I use nothing but my zaw, because it's just so damn good, maybe too good (don't need them) my main saw is a Plague Keewar, with Plague Bokwin, and Ekwana Jai 2, with a riven that gives me range, and this weapon is nasty, so nasty that there's no reason to use anything else..

Here lies the problem with Zaws, they're too good (but don't nerf them) and it's so easy to get a riven for a saw for the low, really zaw polearms rule the day.. you don't even need a Plague zaw,  say you get a cyath, jayap, and Ekwana Jai, you have one of the best polearms in the game.. This doesn't just go for polearms, you can do the same thing with rapists, daggers, and staffs, to the point that they become the best weapon in that respected archetypes and there's no reason to use anything else..

Solution: create more interesting melee weapons, like maybe a hammer that will leave a trail of fire when you ground slam, or a electric sword that shoots a round bolt upon charge attack, maybe a staff that can ground pound a mini tornado the more you spin with it, maybe a infested staff that shoots s toxic cloud which stacks when you attack a enemy in the clouds radius, maybe a regular bat, that can potentially money shot a enemy into a wall, or etetric whip with polearms range that lets enemies do electric slide..

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Zaws, among many other weapons may be good or may suit your gameplay perfectly, however the game makes it clear that just by having a weapon equiped, you do not get instant results, in other words it's not how powerfull you are but what you do with that power that determines how far you have come in warframe.

I'll give you an example, you are given a capture, you end said capture with 10 kills, in short your zaw is pointless and isn't helping you at all

It becomes good if your overall gameplay improves, with faster missions, more productive missions (loot in general), higher level content, more survivability,....

Zenistar for example, allows for efficienct gameplay, you stack gameplay that is often not posisble, such as attacking enemies and defending a terminal at the same time, so you see, other weapons aren't all that worthless, you sure get power, but like the tigris, claiming that you do 1 million damage isn't going to help you when you have like 80% completion rate in warframe.

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Using your logic, here is my 'issue' :Why Warframes are a bad idea: Inaros is OP, why use anything else but Inaros? Everyone should be using only Inaros.

 I mainly melee in Warframe and I use melee weapons which fit my warframe's theme, not how powerful they are, even though majority of melee weapons easily deals with any content because it's the mods that make them so good. 

 And let's face it, even if they did make zaws more interesting using your suggestion, you would be among those people who would not care and keep using their meta zaws - because all you care about is numbers, and that is the actual problem here.

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All I saw was it's really really good because I have a riven..... there is essentially nothing wrong with zaws, they give far more variation than any other weapons (soon to be joined by kit guns on fortuna) in game because we can build them how we like. 

 

 

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The thing about melee is that pretty much every melee is good with the right mods, it’s all a matter of how it looks and the stance 

 

  That being said, some people don’t pay attention to that, and just want the best, whichare zaws, and the reason zaws are bad is simply because they’re melee, which only has limited stats to look for, thus it’s very easy to get the best, especially sense pretty much all people just spam E 

 

  I’d guess that kitguns will be a lot different in terms of how they differ from other sidearms 

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35 minutes ago, GnarlsDarkley said:

Offtopic but I still want to point it out since so many player get it wrong

U6orbaa.jpg

It is either Li or Ii not 2

You mean Rapier, right?

look at the provided image for ekwana jai. one circle one rounded rectangle/pill shape.

look at ekwana Ii jai. TWO circle parts one rounded rectangle/pill shape. ditto jai v jai Ii, ruhang v ruhang Ii.

it doesn't matter how you take it, this is a contextual point. the difference between one and two is Ii. so it means two or double no matter how you write it. further every single word has autofirstcap now which is when this occurred. so its capital i lowercase i. roman numeral two.

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2 hours ago, steelblueskies said:

look at the provided image for ekwana jai. one circle one rounded rectangle/pill shape.

look at ekwana Ii jai. TWO circle parts one rounded rectangle/pill shape. ditto jai v jai Ii, ruhang v ruhang Ii.

it doesn't matter how you take it, this is a contextual point. the difference between one and two is Ii. so it means two or double no matter how you write it. further every single word has autofirstcap now which is when this occurred. so its capital i lowercase i. roman numeral two.

Yeah.

There are between 1 and 3 links. "Ekwana" is 1 link. The "Jai" is one link. The "Ekwana Jai" is one of each. The "Ekwana II Jai" is 2 Ekwana links and 1 Jai link. The "Ekwana Jai II" is 1 Ekwana link and 2 Jai links.

It's II as in a Roman 2. It definitely isn't "Li"

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10 hours ago, Gweredith said:

Using your logic, here is my 'issue' :Why Warframes are a bad idea: Inaros is OP, why use anything else but Inaros? Everyone should be using only Inaros.

 I mainly melee in Warframe and I use melee weapons which fit my warframe's theme, not how powerful they are, even though majority of melee weapons easily deals with any content because it's the mods that make them so good. 

 And let's face it, even if they did make zaws more interesting using your suggestion, you would be among those people who would not care and keep using their meta zaws - because all you care about is numbers, and that is the actual problem here.

I feel exactly what your saying, but I don't want more interesting Zaws, I want more interesting weapons overall, that are in line with the power of a properly modded and spected zaw, of that have gimmicks so interesting it makes you wanna use them over a zaw.. I loved they endure, dual kamas, nikana prime, orthos, guandoa, lesion, lacera, jat weapons, but in the current meta, I see no reason to use it over plague keewar.

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10 hours ago, GinKenshin said:

The thing about melee is that pretty much every melee is good with the right mods, it’s all a matter of how it looks and the stance 

 

  That being said, some people don’t pay attention to that, and just want the best, whichare zaws, and the reason zaws are bad is simply because they’re melee, which only has limited stats to look for, thus it’s very easy to get the best, especially sense pretty much all people just spam E 

 

  I’d guess that kitguns will be a lot different in terms of how they differ from other sidearms 

I feel ranged melee rules the day..

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9 hours ago, (PS4)remo_yesman said:

I loved they endure, dual kamas, nikana prime, orthos, guandoa, lesion, lacera, jat weapons,

Then use them. None of those weapons are actually bad so just use them. This entire mentality is stupid because majority of the weapons in the game can complete high level content if you mod them properly. Let go of meta mentality and just use what you want. 

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18 hours ago, MickThejaguar said:

Then use them. None of those weapons are actually bad so just use them. This entire mentality is stupid because majority of the weapons in the game can complete high level content if you mod them properly. Let go of meta mentality and just use what you want. 

I'm not saying there bad, but why use staff of polearms when plague Keewar is the best.. Endura and Detstreza are great, but overkill for a single target, and they feel designed for single target engagement which isn't meta, and most weapons lack range, even with primed reach an a riven, assuming you can get your hands on a riven for the weapon you need at a reasonable price, where as a Plague zaw comes with viral, with easily obtainable rivens, and easily moddable for range, all things considered, there's no reason to use regular melee, but certain melee Wil always have niche use..

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7 hours ago, (PS4)remo_yesman said:

I'm not saying there bad, but why use staff of polearms when plague Keewar is the best.. Endura and Detstreza are great, but overkill for a single target, and they feel designed for single target engagement which isn't meta, and most weapons lack range, even with primed reach an a riven, assuming you can get your hands on a riven for the weapon you need at a reasonable price, where as a Plague zaw comes with viral, with easily obtainable rivens, and easily moddable for range, all things considered, there's no reason to use regular melee, but certain melee Wil always have niche use..

Did you read anything I said? Like at all? You don't need to use meta weapons. Just because a weapon has better stats doesn't mean weaker weapons suddenly stop working. They don't. Use what weapons you find fun and stop crying about the meta.

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In every game there's a meta. Not saying keewar is the meta but ill play devils advocate. Nerfing a meta doesn't fix a problem because there will always be a new meta. And adding new weapons will get people calling out whats the "best". The only way to fix a meta is to change gameplay and that's what you should be asking for. Not a nerf or rework. New games modes where strategy is required to kill something or where you have to solve puzzles to proceed. Players can use whatever they want.

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Keewar and Kripath are meta (the latter moreso than the former), which is why I started using the Rabvee when it came out... It was beautiful, a hard-hitting, satisfying status and condition overload zaw, which I could easily use well into levels 150+ because of the base values of its damages. Built correctly, the hit to attack speed that you incur by using the Rabvee strike is easily mitigated, based on how you decide to build.

And then DE nerfed the range of Rabvee to be only about half as long as it used to be. (base 6m to base 3m)

And then DE changed Heavy Melees so that your movement speed does not influence the follow-through and covering distance of your Heavy Weapon combos (Such as Crushing Ruin and Tempo Royale). Meaning you have to stand still when swinging these weapons, and lower friction/higher attack speed does not help your conquest. You are stuck.

So now I'm back to using my Keewar, aptly named Dicso Stick, since my Rabvee was shafted beyond oblivion. Thanks.

The only thing my beautiful hammer zaw is good for now... is maiming strike. And I'd rather try to eat that weapon that subject it to such degradation.

Edited by Axio.
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Man, everytime I see a post like this it's always "Zaws are OP, my PineapplePizza with a range riven is soo good I don't see why I would use anything else", I don't think I've ever seen people talk about any other Zaw when they say they are OP, it's 90% Plague, 10% Dokhraam, 2 zaws don't constitute Zaws as a whole.

Now, I do like my Heavy Scythe more than any other heavy melee as well, because it's incredibly fast with good range and I do tend to prefer zaws over other melee, but I still cycle between them and once melee 3.0 hits I will be cycling through melee weapons even more.

Edited by TheRealShade
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They already have multiple weapons that do stuff when you do slam attacks: the Arca Titron is one example.

You hit things to charge up a capacitor, then slam with either your slam attack or at the end of some of the Hammer stance combos to hit a wide radius with electricity! 

I find this weapon is one of the most fun weapons I’ve played with in a while!

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