Arbitrations : Ayatan Star drop rate

[CyberPrimate]

The droprate for ayatan stars in arbirtation missions or even the entire game in general needs to be increased drastically. You are rewarding massive amounts of EMPTY ayatan statues. Amber stars are such a rare drop that I got more  RIVENS than I do amber stars. Thats just ridiculous. Once people run out of their ember stars (or even cyan stars eventually) there is gonna be masses of players complaining how little endo the arbitrations reward if you take into consideration that these players simply cannot fill their statues to get a proper value of endo. Instead they will end up with 400 endo per every 10min which is ridiculous for an endgame game mode.

[1thurts]

This is true and I was thinking about his issue. DE should srsly do something about it, and I believe the best way dealing with it is to add stars as one of the possible reward from the arbitration alerts.

[CyberPrimate]

3 minutes ago, 1thurts said:

This is true and I was thinking about his issue. DE should srsly do something about it, and I believe the best way dealing with it is to add stars as one of the possible reward from the arbitration alerts.

Like a batch of 5-10 ambers would be fine I think. But tbh I would much rather get statues that are ALREADY filled.

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

2 minutes ago, 1thurts said:

This is true and I was thinking about his issue. DE should srsly do something about it, and I believe the best way dealing with it is to add stars as one of the possible reward from the arbitration alerts.

No.

Those drop tables are cluttered enough to start with, and you know that DE would just add in [1x Ayatan Amber Star, 20%] to all rotations and call it good.

Maybe having them as rare drops from the arbitration drones would work (the way they do from Plains animals). You would still have to pick them up, but it would at least be farmable.

[1thurts]

15 minutes ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

No.

Those drop tables are cluttered enough to start with, and you know that DE would just add in [1x Ayatan Amber Star, 20%] to all rotations and call it good.

Maybe having them as rare drops from the arbitration drones would work (the way they do from Plains animals). You would still have to pick them up, but it would at least be farmable.

Yeah that idea sounds cool and DE should do it.

[peterc3]

Play the game and break containers and open lockers. Guess what happens when you fly through missions as fast as possible? You don't get the things that drop.

[ReshyShira]

Just make the sculptures obtained from arbitration come fully filled.

[CyberPrimate]

8 hours ago, peterc3 said:

Play the game and break containers and open lockers. Guess what happens when you fly through missions as fast as possible? You don't get the things that drop.

Did you just really make that idiotic suggestion to me? Should i spend 10min in a capture mission running around breaking containers, opening lockers to get 400 credits and a tiny tiny chance for an amber star that would in turn add another what? maybe 300-500 endo to the statues value? Are you bloody serious? In a game with a heavy grind and a thousand things to farm you think I will run around opening BLOODY CONTAINERS? After I read your reply at first I was speechless that someone would even make a suggestion like that. Only someone with 3k hours, every warframe/weapon built, every important mod maxed, every focus school maxed, every achievement achieved would say something as dumb as you just did. I have about 2 hours a day maximum that I can play, should I waste half of that time to find enough amber stars to fill 4 statues? Because my guess is that thats exactly how many ambers I would get in an hour. OH and of course I would have to play SOLO because noone is stupid enough to tolerate a moron running around opening containers whilst they wait at extraction. And I just realized - not following your suggestion and simply turning in EMPTY ayatans would yield me more endo per hour. Then in turn it would give me more time to enjoy THE ACTUAL BLOODY CONTENT OF THE GAME. The stuff that actually matters.

As a matter of fact, today when I get home, I will do 5 missions and clear the entire map of containers and lockers. Note the time it took to do so and how many ambers dropped. Then I will calculate how much endo I would have gained in that space of time on Vodyanoi. excavation or bounties. As a matter of fact, Ill go ahead and make a bold prediction - its gonna be a total, utter waste of gameplay time. I can bloody guarantee you that. 

90% of players if forced to do something even remotely close to what you just suggested would delete the game without hesitation. If you love playing Containerframe then go ahead and do so. But please dont join public squads when you do so, as most of us would hate a player for wasting everyones time breaking containers that 99.9% of the time will reward you with 50 plastids/rubedo/circuits.

Man I havent been so angry at a forum post in years. The phrase "Play the game" just triggered me. I AM BLOODY PLAYING THE GAME the real *%$ing game with endless hordes of enemies heading my way and thats how I like it. Thats the real game. Opening containers??? For energy/life support - bloody yes. Just to get a tiny chance for an Amber ayatan - Hell no. So if your definition of a fast paced shooter game involves wasting 70% of time on the map on opening nearly worthless containes/lockers then my friend I think you would be the worst game critic in history.

 

EDIT : Forgot to mention that majority of my playtime is in endless type of missions or kuva missions. Most of the containers will most likely be opened to get energy/life support so its not like I or the players I play with dont already do that. The rest of the missions like Capture/Rescue/Exterminate alerts will be rushed through no doubt. And if the current drop rate for Ayatan Amber Stars would be doubled I would STILL rush through the aforementioned mission types.

Edited October 17, 2018 by CyberPrimate

[peterc3]

2 hours ago, CyberPrimate said:

Did you just really make that idiotic suggestion to me? Should i spend 10min in a capture mission running around breaking containers, opening lockers to get 400 credits and a tiny tiny chance for an amber star that would in turn add another what? maybe 300-500 endo to the statues value? Are you bloody serious? In a game with a heavy grind and a thousand things to farm you think I will run around opening BLOODY CONTAINERS? After I read your reply at first I was speechless that someone would even make a suggestion like that. Only someone with 3k hours, every warframe/weapon built, every important mod maxed, every focus school maxed, every achievement achieved would say something as dumb as you just did. I have about 2 hours a day maximum that I can play, should I waste half of that time to find enough amber stars to fill 4 statues? Because my guess is that thats exactly how many ambers I would get in an hour. OH and of course I would have to play SOLO because noone is stupid enough to tolerate a moron running around opening containers whilst they wait at extraction. And I just realized - not following your suggestion and simply turning in EMPTY ayatans would yield me more endo per hour. Then in turn it would give me more time to enjoy THE ACTUAL BLOODY CONTENT OF THE GAME. The stuff that actually matters.

As a matter of fact, today when I get home, I will do 5 missions and clear the entire map of containers and lockers. Note the time it took to do so and how many ambers dropped. Then I will calculate how much endo I would have gained in that space of time on Vodyanoi. excavation or bounties. As a matter of fact, Ill go ahead and make a bold prediction - its gonna be a total, utter waste of gameplay time. I can bloody guarantee you that. 

90% of players if forced to do something even remotely close to what you just suggested would delete the game without hesitation. If you love playing Containerframe then go ahead and do so. But please dont join public squads when you do so, as most of us would hate a player for wasting everyones time breaking containers that 99.9% of the time will reward you with 50 plastids/rubedo/circuits.

Man I havent been so angry at a forum post in years. The phrase "Play the game" just triggered me. I AM BLOODY PLAYING THE GAME the real *%$ing game with endless hordes of enemies heading my way and thats how I like it. Thats the real game. Opening containers??? For energy/life support - bloody yes. Just to get a tiny chance for an Amber ayatan - Hell no. So if your definition of a fast paced shooter game involves wasting 70% of time on the map on opening nearly worthless containes/lockers then my friend I think you would be the worst game critic in history.

 

EDIT : Forgot to mention that majority of my playtime is in endless type of missions or kuva missions. Most of the containers will most likely be opened to get energy/life support so its not like I or the players I play with dont already do that. The rest of the missions like Capture/Rescue/Exterminate alerts will be rushed through no doubt. And if the current drop rate for Ayatan Amber Stars would be doubled I would STILL rush through the aforementioned mission types.

OK then, buy other people's time and pay them for fully upgraded mods.

Or quit playing a game that so clearly doesn't fit your life and/or causes you to write a wall of text over a half-serious suggestion.

[CyberPrimate]

1 hour ago, peterc3 said:

OK then, buy other people's time and pay them for fully upgraded mods.

Or quit playing a game that so clearly doesn't fit your life and/or causes you to write a wall of text over a half-serious suggestion.

Its your patronising attitude and words "Play the game" that triggered me. Implying that not opening every single container on the map is somehow me skipping massive amount of content in the game. That was just plain stupid. That being said, you did it again by suggesting for me to quit the game just now. Over Amber stars? Endo is not a massive problem for me, but having 30% chance for 500 endo worth reward at 40th minute of an end game mission is not what DE intended im absolutely sure. As a matter of fact, lets make a bet that this will be addressed by DE eventually once too many people stack up on empty ayatans that they can only partially fill with Cyan stars.

Ive checked some of your previous posts and got a feeling that you have a tendency to be a bit of a patronising naysayer even when the suggestion itself is neither bad nor game breaking. On the other hand you put idiotic suggestions and rants down quite eloquently so kudos to you for that. But in this case you are completely wrong. Something tells me that you are at a point in the game where something as trivial as an Amber star is absolutely not on your radar in which case you should've just ignored the thread and moved on skipping the patronising veteran bit altogether. 

The amount of players who have trouble with amber star drops is considerable. Just because you dont doesnt give you right to go ahead and blame players for not having enough of a certain recource (it used to be enough because you would only get ayatans rarely). Now though, with the new game mode, the droprates need to be addressed. If you cant see that then you eventually will, i guarantee you that.

[KIREEK]

12 hours ago, peterc3 said:

Play the game and break containers and open lockers. Guess what happens when you fly through missions as fast as possible? You don't get the things that drop.

This player knows.

@CyberPrimate

We are not saying you should neglet the mission altogether, all you need to do is make the mission profitable, the faster you destroy large volumes of crates, the more stars you get, you probably realised infested corpus ships (eris) and corpus ship tileset have many crates around, if you destroy all of them in one go (something you need to figure out if you want things done fast) then the mission will be far more efficient, all you need is to destroy them as you progress, you don't need to sidetrack, all you need is to do several things at once, like moving while killing and destorying crates. No loki decoy will not help you destroy crates, but equinox maim detonation will, this is an example.

On the long term you will find amber stars, but remember that empty statues is intentional so you have to play other game modes aswell, it also reveals that arbitrary survivals can become more profitable if you use 10 minutes to open caches and destroy crates, obviously if you avoid crates, if you merely just run in missions, if you speed run them but not make any use out of them, then you won't get anything worthwhile (not even stars), you probably already missed duzzens of amber stars without knowing and the few minutes that it would require to get them, would certainly be rewarded.

As an alternative, you can buy or trade for stars in trade chat, someone wants a berserker? ask for amber stars, someone wants a lens, ask stars, so on and so forth.

Warframe is an effort based game, the player that is giving advice is actually giving you a VERY good one, i know this because i'm one of the end results of that gameplay, with over 5M endo and amber stars found in missions help alot.

Edited October 17, 2018 by KIREEK

[CyberPrimate]

4 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

This player knows.

@CyberPrimate

We are not saying you should neglet the mission altogether, all you need to do is make the mission profitable, the faster you destroy large volumes of crates, the more stars you get, you probably realised infested corpus ships (eris) and corpus ship tileset have many crates around, if you destroy all of them in one go (something you need to figure out if you want things done fast) then the mission will be far more efficient, all you need is to destroy them as you progress, you don't need to sidetrack, all you need is to do several things at once, like moving while killing and destorying crates. No loki decoy will not help you destroy crates, but equinox maim detonation will, this is an example.

On the long term you will find amber stars, but remember that empty statues is intentional so you have to play other game modes aswell, it also reveals that arbitrary survivals can become more profitable if you use 10 minutes to open caches and destroy crates, obviously if you avoid crates, if you merely just run in missions, if you speed run them but not make any use out of them, then you won't get anything worthwhile (not even stars), you probably already missed duzzens of amber stars without knowing and the few minutes that it would require to get them, would certainly be rewarded.

As an alternative, you can buy or trade for stars in trade chat, someone wants a berserker? ask for amber stars, someone wants a lens, ask stars, so on and so forth.

Trust me, it wont be enough. But then again, depends on a player. To me arbitrations are one of the most fun game modes in Warframe. I already got 12 ayatans in just a few days. I also skipped very few sorties, so spent plenty of ambers on those ayatans and always do a weekly maroos treasure hunt. Find at least one or two ayatans in mission per week. Amber star drop rate is nowhere near that number when arbitrations are taken into account. But anyway, you'll see, its just a matter of time until this will be changed im sure. Well, im hopeful rather than sure. And about containers - as I said earlier, in longer missions people always break them to get energy/life support. In a regular mission forget it.. Im no longer using spin to win Whips with massive range so actively going near to containers with my melee, or wasting bullets/reloading time is not something ill do in a capture/rescue/extermination. Im sure within the next month there will be a flood of people with 500+hours game time saying they just dont have enough ambers. They are 5 plat a piece now, if nothing gets changed prices might spike. And just check how very few are on offer on wf.market Thats very very telling. 

Putting the Amber star into Orta ayatan yields extra 700 endo, Dont feel like paying 5p for 700 endo, no sir. Ill go on Vodyanoi and get that in 2min. Or even double that as my highest yield in 2-3min run was 1.5k endo. Average around 900.

[Zi-Sui]

13 hours ago, peterc3 said:

Play the game and break containers and open lockers. Guess what happens when you fly through missions as fast as possible? You don't get the things that drop.

That's not a solution, it's just slow that way. Any reason except dojo & orbiter decoration to take your suggestion instead of going Vodyanoi? You can get 2,7k endo from filled orta sculpture from arbitrations C rotation, which you get in 10 minutes of survival, unless you get the 1,6k endo which has a higher chance of dropping. Vodyanoi gives steady 2k-3k endo in 10 minutes, that's without lower endo rewards from A and B rotations of arbitrations.

You really need to consider the time spent to reward ratio, which with your suggestion, you apparently didn't.

[KIREEK]

36 minutes ago, BoarWarrior said:

That's not a solution, it's just slow that way. Any reason except dojo & orbiter decoration to take your suggestion instead of going Vodyanoi? You can get 2,7k endo from filled orta sculpture from arbitrations C rotation, which you get in 10 minutes of survival, unless you get the 1,6k endo which has a higher chance of dropping. Vodyanoi gives steady 2k-3k endo in 10 minutes, that's without lower endo rewards from A and B rotations of arbitrations.

You really need to consider the time spent to reward ratio, which with your suggestion, you apparently didn't.

It's slow because yu make it slow, that's like going from killing entire rooms of enemies and then deciding killing them 1 by one is better.

If i can reach the end relatively fast (if not the fastest) while killing and destoying most crates on the way, then so can you, provided you make the effort to do so.

The issue is that you are tied to end of mission rewards and other players use that as a complementary reward, when they do that mission they get endo, but when they do a capture for example, you need to search for other things, even if it's a nitain alert, you need to do things fast and a few stars end up being far more profitable than the new game mode or the endo you get from the missions you seem to like, this is exluding the potential of finding statues, the mods you trade after the mission and the endo enemies drop, for a quick 2 mimute mission, it's alot of endo.

So the user has done his math because he, like me, also realised that the more you do in a mission, the better the results, after 1000 missions the gap becomes severe compared with the large majority of the players, who still use the end of mission rewards to progress.

[Zi-Sui]

20 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

It's slow because yu make it slow, that's like going from killing entire rooms of enemies and then deciding killing them 1 by one is better.

If i can reach the end relatively fast (if not the fastest) while killing and destoying most crates on the way, then so can you, provided you make the effort to do so.

The issue is that you are tied to end of mission rewards and other players use that as a complementary reward, when they do that mission they get endo, but when they do a capture for example, you need to search for other things, even if it's a nitain alert, you need to do things fast and a few stars end up being far more profitable than the new game mode or the endo you get from the missions you seem to like, this is exluding the potential of finding statues, the mods you trade after the mission and the endo enemies drop, for a quick 2 mimute mission, it's alot of endo.

So the user has done his math because he, like me, also realised that the more you do in a mission, the better the results, after 1000 missions the gap becomes severe compared with the large majority of the players, who still use the end of mission rewards to progress.

It's still way slower than Vodyanoi even if you use AoE skills, because you need both the ayatan stars and the sculptures. Even with filled sculptures the current arbitrations wouldn't beat Vodyanoi, so to take a lot of time to get the stars just adds up to it.

[KIREEK]

38 minutes ago, BoarWarrior said:

It's still way slower than Vodyanoi even if you use AoE skills, because you need both the ayatan stars and the sculptures. Even with filled sculptures the current arbitrations wouldn't beat Vodyanoi, so to take a lot of time to get the stars just adds up to it.

maybe i did the math wrong, didn't you just say 10 minutes? because that's like 3 or 4 capture missions, how is that not better than Vodyanoi

[Zi-Sui]

1 hour ago, KIREEK said:

maybe i did the math wrong, didn't you just say 10 minutes? because that's like 3 or 4 capture missions, how is that not better than Vodyanoi

Because to my knowledge you don't get even a single amber star in one capture usually, takes 2 captures or more even if you break all the crates, and that's just one amber star, maybe 700 endo worth when you put it on a good sculpture. Compare that to Vodyanoi, 500-900 endo in 2 minutes. Compare that to any arbitrations endo-related rewards. It should be pretty clear Vodyanoi prevails.

[Synpai]

19 hours ago, peterc3 said:

Play the game and break containers and open lockers. Guess what happens when you fly through missions as fast as possible? You don't get the things that drop.

As someone who breaks and opens every container and locker on the way to an objective, there is a huge disparity in drop rates.

I'm currently sitting on 30:800 Amber to Cyan stars and this is after regularly getting rid of sortie statues, etc. which use more cyan stars to fill over amber on average.

Not to mention most of this collection comes from me playing for hours every day, at times when Telos Boltace or Simulor were always around; when melee could hit from miles away through walls, etc.

Like even if you were to look at me as the poster child, my quantity of stars would barely cover the influx of statues I'm getting from Arbitrations.

[CyberPrimate]

10 hours ago, Synpai said:

As someone who breaks and opens every container and locker on the way to an objective, there is a huge disparity in drop rates.

I'm currently sitting on 30:800 Amber to Cyan stars and this is after regularly getting rid of sortie statues, etc. which use more cyan stars to fill over amber on average.

Not to mention most of this collection comes from me playing for hours every day, at times when Telos Boltace or Simulor were always around; when melee could hit from miles away through walls, etc.

Like even if you were to look at me as the poster child, my quantity of stars would barely cover the influx of statues I'm getting from Arbitrations.

I think this guy is completely clueless about what we are trying to say here. Guy is a proper veteran who likes to be condescending. Quite possibly doesnt even do arbitrations or doesnt care about endo at all. Just likes popping in someones thread to patronize them. A player since 2013 is telling me its my fault that I dont have enough of Amber stars because I rush missions. A ridiculous guy.

 

On 2018-10-16 at 9:09 PM, peterc3 said:

Play the game and break containers and open lockers. Guess what happens when you fly through missions as fast as possible? You don't get the things that drop.

So I did my little experiment. Did 5 mission in Void and Eris. Broke about 85% of all containers. 1 amber star. Bloody one Amber in 25min. 25min gametime to add 700 endo value to Orta and even less to other statues. (Also got nothing else of decent value and the missions themselves were boring star chart missions) Same time on Vodyanoi roughly 6000 endo. 

I jump in into an arbitration for 1h, end up wit 4 statues. At least there I had a challenge and some fun.

[punipunichen]

On 2018-10-16 at 9:24 AM, CyberPrimate said:

The droprate for ayatan stars in arbirtation missions or even the entire game in general needs to be increased drastically. You are rewarding massive amounts of EMPTY ayatan statues. Amber stars are such a rare drop that I got more  RIVENS than I do amber stars. Thats just ridiculous. Once people run out of their ember stars (or even cyan stars eventually) there is gonna be masses of players complaining how little endo the arbitrations reward if you take into consideration that these players simply cannot fill their statues to get a proper value of endo. Instead they will end up with 400 endo per every 10min which is ridiculous for an endgame game mode.

hey kiddo, I have sooo much ember star... PM me in game, I give you good deal...

[CyberPrimate]

On 2018-10-18 at 5:37 AM, punipunichen said:

hey kiddo, I have sooo much ember star... PM me in game, I give you good deal...

Do you happen to drive a van with tinted windows?

[Tyanya]

On 2018-10-17 at 10:19 AM, CyberPrimate said:

 They are 5 plat a piece now, if nothing gets changed prices might spike.

If that happens then players may start open lockers and smashing crates if there's plat to be made and the prices will level off again.

There are plenty of stars out there, just equip Carrier with looter mod and open a few lockers and you're good. 

I normally sell excess stars to Maroo but always leave myself 50 ambers and 150 cyan, haven't been for a little while though.

Yes it can be a little time consuming opening lockers, but they are there in the game to be opened, to ask for stars to be put in loot tables further dilutes the loot table and also renders opening lockers pretty much obsolete.

Maybe trade a pack of 3 amber stars for 10 Vitus Essence? How's that for compromise? 

[CyberPrimate]

16 hours ago, Tyanya said:

If that happens then players may start open lockers and smashing crates if there's plat to be made and the prices will level off again.

There are plenty of stars out there, just equip Carrier with looter mod and open a few lockers and you're good. 

I normally sell excess stars to Maroo but always leave myself 50 ambers and 150 cyan, haven't been for a little while though.

Yes it can be a little time consuming opening lockers, but they are there in the game to be opened, to ask for stars to be put in loot tables further dilutes the loot table and also renders opening lockers pretty much obsolete.

Maybe trade a pack of 3 amber stars for 10 Vitus Essence? How's that for compromise? 

I now have 17 additional statues since arbitrations were introduced. I am not getting the same rate of Ambers in the game. Depends on how you play and what type of missions you play. If i do 1h survivals, I aint gonna get loads of containers/lockers since i stay on the same map. You might be a different kind of player altogether. I barely mess with star chart, since its boring as hell. 

Do you do sorties every day? Do you do maroos alert every week? Do you do 1-2h of arbitrations per day? How many hours per day you get to play? Theres lots of variables here that would affect. My point is - DE put Orta in rotation C as a better reward than 2000 endo, but in my case its a worse reward, I rather get 2k endo then statue (even if its worth more if filled). The amount of statues I am now getting in the game does not match the droprate of Ambers. And I certainly wont buy 700 endo worth for 5p. So I will be turning in statues with only Cyan stars inserted.

But nevermind. I definitely not gonna start playing star char missions just to get ambers. I always break containers if I got something like Staticor equipped. And back in the day when i used to use "Spin to win" with whips (when they would also hit through walls) I broke any container in my way. I got Animal Instinct equipped on sentinels to see loot so I can just blast through walls with staticor. But if I got my 2m range melee and something like Tiberon equipped, I aint bothered to slowly shoot/break them 1 by 1.

[Tyanya]

10 hours ago, CyberPrimate said:

My point is - DE put Orta in rotation C as a better reward than 2000 endo, but in my case its a worse reward, I rather get 2k endo then statue (even if its worth more if filled). The amount of statues I am now getting in the game does not match the droprate of Ambers. And I certainly wont buy 700 endo worth for 5p. So I will be turning in statues with only Cyan stars inserted.

 

Hello

Yes I see your point, the only way statues are of more value are to the players that are using them as decorations or as you say, running standard starchart stuff and have accumulated the stars along the way.

It would make the situation much more straight forward to have rotation C reward 2k endo and a slight chance of a mod but I think they wanted to add a modicum of variety with the addition of the statues. 

There will come a point where the players that are running Arbitration alerts frequently will have a stockpile of Vitus Essence with nothing to buy with it, Amber and Cyan Stars would be nice synergy I think. 

Maybe 3 Vitus Essences to 1 amber star and 1 Vitus Essence to 1 cyan star, that would be ok wouldn't it?

 

[SinkingStone]

9 hours ago, Tyanya said:

...

There will come a point where the players that are running Arbitration alerts frequently will have a stockpile of Vitus Essence with nothing to buy with it, Amber and Cyan Stars would be nice synergy I think. 

Maybe 3 Vitus Essences to 1 amber star and 1 Vitus Essence to 1 cyan star, that would be ok wouldn't it?

 

I love this idea. It provides an evergreen use for Vitus Essence and aligns perfectly with the mission rewards.