Revenant still feels lackluster

[Phyrak]

Hey there,

Revenant has been out a little while now, but still seems to be missing something - he is very much the king of area denial, yet still only taps into the shallows of the mixed theme he has; vampire and Eidolon.

These are just some thoughts on giving him clarity in design - please note that these thoughts are on the margin of the Eidolon with vampire underpinnings rather than an equilibrium of both.

Passive:
For a Warframe that doesn't seek to lose shields due to his second ability, the passive is certainly lackluster for the small AoE it has.
He is a caster based offensive AoE frame - the original passive of heal based on damage works well. Perhaps in addition to this, add "Gain X energy whilst above Y health and Z shields" to further focus this niche of having thralls out to do the dirty work whilst Revenant deals damage unhindered.

1. Seeking Bullets:
The Eidolon's homing projectiles

Think of Nyx's psychic bolts/magic missiles - Revenant sends X projectiles; gaining combo meter like Atlas. Reducing cost whilst increasing amount of projectiles sent when tapped consecutively.
Energy pillars will send out a blast and blast periodically after being struck by the bolt.

2. Mesmer Skin:
Kept largely the same with the exception of the interaction with foes.
Foes that attack are now instantly entralled to Revenant (up to X thralls (Str)).
Thralls are disarmed, seeking melee combat.
Thralls are now surrounded by the damaging energy pillar.
The energy pillar consumes 5% (eff) per second (dur) - converting consumed health into pillar damage. At base a thrall will last 20 seconds before dying and leaving behind a pillar as another thrall takes its place.
Allies kill thralls (much like Nekros' SotD), thralls must lose health to die.
Mesmer skin will now regenerate 1 charge per X seconds (dur).

3. Reave:
There is a lack of control with the ability.
Giving it controls akin to Excalibur's slash dash would certainly make it more useable.

With thralls now being properly disposable units. The manner of going to and from cannon fodder seems a little lacking for an overlord.
In the same sense of Equinox's 3 - reave now siphons health and shield within the area surrounding Revenant.
Holding the ability will now send Revenant towards the destination selected in a more purpose driven manner.

4. Danse Macabre:
The adaptive damage is the best part of this ability but it is also one of the most boring abilities in game and doesn't mimic the Eidolon's as much as it could.

Perhaps using the Gantulyst's Super God Ray out of his hand, Revenant could be precise with damage applying the new continuous beam weapon changed to this new ultimate.
Clicking alt fire allows for placement of energy pillars at the discretion of the player to use alongside the pillars from current and dead thralls - further emphasizing positioning and area control.

Use of the beam would follow that of Ivara, allowing for regeneration of energy whilst being strategic in combat.
Like any other exalted weapon (for lack of a defined weapon as such, Revenant's hand out be used), it can be modded using Primary mods and effected by Arcanes of that nature.

All maths and balance for Revenant with this is all up in the air, so please bring your praise, criticism or additions to this as you see fit.

I do hope you see Revenant in a new light under this tweak and review.

Thank you for reading,

-Phyrak

[Urlan]

I like the seeking bullets idea!

[Phyrak]

3 hours ago, Urlan said:

I like the seeking bullets idea!

I got it directly from the Eidolon's 🙂

trying very much to bring his theme to the forefront of combat

[Maryph]

I don't think they'll entirely rework/change one or some of his abilities, but anyway, that's a pretty nice idea.
What would have been cool with him, is the ability to spawn at least two vovmalyst, much like Atlas's rumblers.

 

Edited October 16, 2018 by Maryph

[Spectre-8]

Mesa prime will come out and everyone will forget the revenant forever , maybe it's better this way .

[Phyrak]

4 minutes ago, Maryph said:

I don't think they'll entirely rework/change one or some of his abilities, but anyway, that's a pretty nice idea.
What would have been cool with him, is the ability to spawn at least two vovmalyst, much like Atlas's rumblers.

 

I can agree with that

Considering how thralls are supposed to be disposable units, on death spawning a vomvalyst for a duration would give another step in the vampire Eidolon theme and power base

[Urlan]

2 hours ago, Phyrak said:

I got it directly from the Eidolon's 🙂

trying very much to bring his theme to the forefront of combat

Considering his theme of taking after the Eidolons, I think that is a great idea!

[Lior55]

I really like this. It makes him feel more like an epidemic rather than a mismatched mess of Rebecca and Steve's desires. My favorite part is reave. She should really change that if anything. Reave is almost useless and the distance traveled plus the animation duration are trash.

Edited October 17, 2018 by Lior55

[Phyrak]

Just now, Lior55 said:

I really like this. It makes him feel more like an epidemic rather than a mismatched mess of Rebecca and Steve's desires. My favorite part is reave. She should really change that if anything. Reave almost useless and the distance traveled plus the animation duration are trash.

Thank you for your feedback 🙂

the thralls really aren't thralls - they act more like guardians if that; let alone a lack of survival.

thus, making them more like Nekros' SotD allows for more zoning by the constant replacement of thralls and placement of pillars with ultimate - not to mention the thralls themselves are moving energy pillars that become stationary once killed.

I do agree with you, Revenant is rather mismatched in ability, theme and overall identity.

there needs to be a reason to use an ability - if there is no reason to use it, no synergy or change; then what is the point of it?

thus, this is the outcome of such thoughts

[Lior55]

The passive idea and Mesmer Skin idea are nice too. I don't get why DE is so afraid of good passives. 😕 Give Revenant to Pablo I guess lol. The exalted beam weapon is really interesting because at the end of the day, he's a mostly damage frame with some survivability elements. He could potentially contend with Mesa if he got that treatment to his 4. Honestly his kit is so disjointed, I find it hard to love him like I want to. DE holds back in areas they shouldn't. The Eidolon/Vampire theme could've been executed perfectly if they had waited a bit longer and developed him with a real form of cohesion and synergy to his abilities and allowed him to really stand out as a new high tier frame.

[Phyrak]

10 minutes ago, Lior55 said:

The passive idea and Mesmer Skin idea are nice too. I don't get why DE is so afraid of good passives. 😕 Give Revenant to Pablo I guess lol. The exalted beam weapon is really interesting because at the end of the day, he's a mostly damage frame with some survivability elements. He could potentially contend with Mesa if he got that treatment to his 4. Honestly his kit is so disjointed, I find it hard to love him like I want to. DE holds back in areas they shouldn't. The Eidolon/Vampire theme could've been executed perfectly if they had waited a bit longer and developed him with a real form of cohesion and synergy to his abilities and allowed him to really stand out as a new high tier frame.

Amen to that

To contend with Mesa should be where he is at - area denial with disposable units that grant him health and shield with passive energy based regeneration.

Having a beam weapon that worked similar to Ivara in paying energy for the use rather than a toggle would allow for greater use of it due to energy regeneration.

This is the outcome of the Eidolon taking main theme with vampire being the cornerstone

[(XBOX)Chrisstal Clear]

I feel that his first ability should spawn in 6 Eidolon Vomvalysts to help him fight instead of the useless enemies he takes control of that not only die fast (most of the time) but also have a 30 second count total (if you use the right mods). I also feel that Reave should be his second ability and that for his third ability, Revenant should use that smash that the Teralyst uses. This is so that it makes Revenant seem more effective as a crowd control type Warframe.

[Phyrak]

5 minutes ago, (XB1)Chrisstal Clear said:

I feel that his first ability should spawn in 6 Eidolon Vomvalysts to help him fight instead of the useless enemies he takes control of that not only die fast (most of the time) but also have a 30 second count total (if you use the right mods). I also feel that Reave should be his second ability and that for his third ability, Revenant should use that smash that the Teralyst uses. This is so that it makes Revenant seem more effective as a crowd control type Warframe.

As by Maryph, vomvalysts would be a secondary summon to the disposable thralls - keeping to the summoned units be secondary to the damage output of the Eidolon.

Revenant is more of an damage based area denial frame rather than crowd control. Pillars from thralls along with the AoE from the current Danse Macarbre are all about denial within an area though dps, the inverse of Vauban who has hard and soft cc with all his abilities.

[Xolgys]

my only issue with nidus right now are the pillars from his 1. the AoE is too small to be useful most of the time. it would be better to remove the AoE per sec and make them spawn similar seeking bullets like phantasma does and make them seek enemies within a specific AoE. right now even during testing in the simulacrum its really hard to make a crowd take mattering damage from them. its more like a tiny bonus rather than something very useful imo but as far as i see it the thralls want to die because the dmg from the pillars itself is quite a lot...it just doesnt hit enemies well which makes all the good dmg/s nearly pointless or at least only half as good at best~

[-Iceage-]

If you think about he has to reinisence of his vampire theme anymore. The only ability that doesn't fit with him is Mesmer skin, your 3 is based on healing yourself, your passive activates when you loose Shields and your 4 gets a boost with damage taken and mesmer skin cancels this, but it also keeps you alive so it's hard to tweak it really.

[Phyrak]

1 minute ago, Iced_Chronosaur said:

If you think about he has to reinisence of his vampire theme anymore. The only ability that doesn't fit with him is Mesmer skin, your 3 is based on healing yourself, your passive activates when you loose Shields and your 4 gets a boost with damage taken and mesmer skin cancels this, but it also keeps you alive so it's hard to tweak it really.

Hence a new passive

Keep the theme of his old one whilst giving a reason to keep mesmer skin up

[Lior55]

7 hours ago, Iced_Chronosaur said:

If you think about he has to reinisence of his vampire theme anymore. The only ability that doesn't fit with him is Mesmer skin, your 3 is based on healing yourself, your passive activates when you loose Shields and your 4 gets a boost with damage taken and mesmer skin cancels this, but it also keeps you alive so it's hard to tweak it really.

In Soul Reaver, Kain could suck all of the blood from nearby humans without biting them. If Reave was made to be more like that(like the OP suggest), but instead it's their essence, I think the vampire theme would come together more. It could be Duration based and it would have a constant flow of health, shield, and maybe even armor as long as enemies are around. Enemies explode, infecting other nearby enemies so that you have another way to make thralls. You could even make the energy color red. It could have an augment mod that replaces this effect and makes him invulnerable when using it near thralled targets, similar to eidolon and their vomvalyst. He should be a bit of a feared epidemic. His kit is half done and if they leave him where he is because his 2 is ok and his 4 kills star chart level enemies, I'll be disappointed. I want him to thematically feel better and his kit to feel very robust. His 3 feel like a half thought out ability and too many males frame suck right now in comparison to female frames.

[Conflux59]

6 hours ago, Lior55 said:

In Soul Reaver, Kain could suck all of the blood from nearby humans without biting them. If Reave was made to be more like that(like the OP suggest), but instead it's their essence, I think the vampire theme would come together more. It could be Duration based and it would have a constant flow of health, shield, and maybe even armor as long as enemies are around. Enemies explode, infecting other nearby enemies so that you have another way to make thralls. You could even make the energy color red. It could have an augment mod that replaces this effect and makes him invulnerable when using it near thralled targets, similar to eidolon and their vomvalyst. He should be a bit of a feared epidemic. His kit is half done and if they leave him where he is because his 2 is ok and his 4 kills star chart level enemies, I'll be disappointed. I want him to thematically feel better and his kit to feel very robust. His 3 feel like a half thought out ability and too many males frame suck right now in comparison to female frames.

I agree with this completely.  Honestly the way things have been (and I dont mean this to be negative or toxic ..just an educated guess from history) I would be much more surprised if they didn't just move right along to Garuda.. leaving him as is.  Disheartening is an understatement.

Also I can't disagree with the last point either...  there is something about male frames vs female frames in regards to power.  I don't want to fan that fire, but I can't help but expect Garuda to be simply amazing... and we're getting a Prime version of Mesa whom obviously is one of the best/most loved/powerful frames in game.

The last two male frames we've gotten...

Revenant and... Chroma

._.

[Lior55]

1 hour ago, Conflux59 said:

I agree with this completely.  Honestly the way things have been (and I dont mean this to be negative or toxic ..just an educated guess from history) I would be much more surprised if they didn't just move right along to Garuda.. leaving him as is.  Disheartening is an understatement.

Also I can't disagree with the last point either...  there is something about male frames vs female frames in regards to power.  I don't want to fan that fire, but I can't help but expect Garuda to be simply amazing... and we're getting a Prime version of Mesa whom obviously is one of the best/most loved/powerful frames in game.

The last two male frames we've gotten...

Revenant and... Chroma

._.

You're just saying what some of us are thinking. I think Pablo's Garuda will be serious and IF SHE IS, then I will be extremely disappointed in the level of attention she and Mesa will get while my love Chroma and Revenant are complacently ignored or forgotten about.

[Phyrak]

24 minutes ago, Lior55 said:

You're just saying what some of us are thinking. I think Pablo's Garuda will be serious and IF SHE IS, then I will be extremely disappointed in the level of attention she and Mesa will get while my love Chroma and Revenant are complacently ignored or forgotten about.

I have sent a message to Pablo about this particular instance of Revenant.

Hopefully he will read the outcries and see if he, Steve and whomever else works on the Warframes to set time aside to bring Revenant up to par with these additions - such would be useful for the community and the male/female dichotomy in the game