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Wukong Rework


Nipponsei
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Hi All and hopefully DE,

I would like to point out that Wukong, one of my favorite frames, is really lacking a decent skillset.

His 2 is basically his only gimmick. His 1 and 3 are useless and his 4 is only somewhat decent.

So i really hope DE takes a looks at Wukong and reworks him because i absolutely love what they did to Nezha.

Maybe DE needs some inspiration with what to do with Wukong's abilities.

In that case here are some quotes from the Wiki page about Sun Wukong, the Chinese folklore on which the very Warframe was based. And Goku for that matter 😛

"Sun Wukong possesses immense strength; he is able to lift his 13,500 jīn (7,960 kilograms (17,550 lb)) staff with ease. He is also extremely fast (Yeah well not in-game 🙂), able to travel 108,000 li (21,675 kilometres (13,468 mi)) in one somersault. Sun knows 72 transformations, which allow him to transform into various animals and objects; however, he has trouble transforming into other forms, due to the accompanying incomplete transformation of his tail. Sun Wukong is a skilled fighter, capable of defeating the best warriors of heaven. Each of his hairs possesses magical properties, capable of being transformed into clones of the Monkey King himself (Could you do something with this please DE?), and/or into various weapons, animals, and other objects. He knows spells to command wind, part water, conjure protective circles against demons, and freeze humans, demons, and gods alike."

And maybe you could make him ride a cloud like Goku rides the Nimbus in Dragon Ball, i mean you already have the riding mechanic with Fortuna's K-drive 😉

Anyway i really hope DE takes a look at Wukong at some point.

Sincerely a former Wukong main, Nezha rules!

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Lol this is funny, I was just coming on here to post about this.

Yes, change his defy into shadow clone no jutsu plz. when he dies, he just swaps places with one of his clones. Hitting 2 summons a permanent clone, 6 clones max, each dealing 1/#of clones of wukong's damage, affected by power strength.

Make his 4 baseline, wukong is a staff hero, don't give him other melee weapons. In fact don't even give him any primary or secondary weapons, he'll just extend his staff or throw his staff to poke enemies as his way of "shooting". Staff extension (single target) affected by primary weapon mods, throwing staff (aoe damage) affected by secondary weapon mods.

Make his 1 transform into a tiger and attack like Valkyr, no immunity but boost armor

Make his 3 transform into an eagle and able to fly around, can't attack but much faster

Make his 4 Circle of Protection, enemies can't enter and are expelled from the circle, allies inside heal and are immune to damage, gunfire is reflected back to attacker, but if any ally leaves circle, is broken immediately.

Edit: Wukong of legend is at his heart a trickster and a hooligan. Having multiple copies of him rag-dolling enemies all over the map with staff attacks of all kinds captures that essence perfectly.

Edited by Drftingcloud
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This sounds really fun.  Personally, I loved the looks of wukong, and worked toward him primarily (after Atlas ofc,) but when I actually got him he was kinda garbage.  Sure with vitality, hunter adrenaline and rage he was immortal able to do 70+ level runs at level ten, but if I need a tank I can always take Valkyr, atlas, or rhino for immunity and much better damage.  His cloudwalker is boring and slow as heck, maybe have him turn into a cloud and fly like titania and higher speed? idk, anyways, just bumping so that DE will maybe rework him.

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Wukong is the most reliable (not powerful) solo warframe at the level of sortie bosses and up.  The fact that Wukong does not have any flashy AoE damage/CC, and no team buff for the solo player, building up a wide range of powerful weapons for different situations, especially to fight high level enemies, is therefore essential to take advantage of Defy.  In this regard, Wukong is the unique weapon man among the long list of warframes, his Defy provides the freedom for the solo player to stress test the weapons to fight high level enemies after they are optimized, I see this as a great reward for spending so much time and effort to forma the weapons.  Therefore, the level of immortality must be kept.

Though not as charismatic as other exalted weapons, his Iron Staff is a competent exalted weapon, one can use it with a different build to complement the regular weapons in mission.

However his Iron Jab is weak, and the speed of Cloud Walker makes no sense as Wukong is able to traverse 108,000 miles as he flips just once in his cloud according to the lore.  I agree that these 2 need rework.

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3 hours ago, modalmojo said:

Therefore, the level of immortality must be kept.

So that players can "stress test weapons against high level enemies whilst solo"?

That's an atrocious reason to base a balance decision on. We have the simulacrum for "stress testing" where you can summon 20 high level enemies of your choice, we do not need a frame to have a trash ability for such things.

Because at the end of the day, that's what Defy is, trash. Frames like Rhino or Nidus or hell, even Oberon to some extent can easily be just as tanky in relevant content whilst performing better overall and having abilities that are useful at all levels of play, unlike Defy which is only useful in the top 5% of content and is a literal debuff in the other 95%. Defy absolutely has to be changed, and if that means losing the current level of immortality for an actually useful ability then we're just going to have to suck it up.

3 hours ago, modalmojo said:

Though not as charismatic as other exalted weapons, his Iron Staff is a competent exalted weapon, one can use it with a different build to complement the regular weapons in mission.

It's competent, but lacklustre compared to Heavy Blades/Polearms/Some Staves/Whips and so on. As a weapon that costs energy to use it really should be one of the best ones in the game, however all of the above mentioned weapons can easily outkill the staff due to their longer range. After the recent changes Heavy Blades can reach about double the range of the Staff.

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23 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

So that players can "stress test weapons against high level enemies whilst solo"?

That's an atrocious reason to base a balance decision on. We have the simulacrum for "stress testing" where you can summon 20 high level enemies of your choice, we do not need a frame to have a trash ability for such things.

Because at the end of the day, that's what Defy is, trash. Frames like Rhino or Nidus or hell, even Oberon to some extent can easily be just as tanky in relevant content whilst performing better overall and having abilities that are useful at all levels of play, unlike Defy which is only useful in the top 5% of content and is a literal debuff in the other 95%. Defy absolutely has to be changed, and if that means losing the current level of immortality for an actually useful ability then we're just going to have to suck it up.

It's competent, but lacklustre compared to Heavy Blades/Polearms/Some Staves/Whips and so on. As a weapon that costs energy to use it really should be one of the best ones in the game, however all of the above mentioned weapons can easily outkill the staff due to their longer range. After the recent changes Heavy Blades can reach about double the range of the Staff.

"Stress test" is just an analogy, running a prolonged mission is certainly different from fighting 20 enemies in the simulacrum.

I would not say Defy is trash, in my extensive experience with Wukong there are solo situations where Wukong is much preferable to other tanky frames like Rhino or Nidus, that is why I said Wukong is the most reliable solo frame at the beginning.  Defy is what makes Wukong unique among all warframes, and useful to me.

Of course there are many melee weapons that are much more powerful than Iron Staff, I actually mentioned about this aspect in another thread a while ago, and at that time you defended Iron Staff by posting several gameplay vids too.

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On 2018-10-16 at 4:00 PM, Nipponsei said:

Hi All and hopefully DE,

I would like to point out that Wukong, one of my favorite frames, is really lacking a decent skillset.

His 2 is basically his only gimmick. His 1 and 3 are useless and his 4 is only somewhat decent.

So i really hope DE takes a looks at Wukong and reworks him because i absolutely love what they did to Nezha.

Maybe DE needs some inspiration with what to do with Wukong's abilities.

In that case here are some quotes from the Wiki page about Sun Wukong, the Chinese folklore on which the very Warframe was based. And Goku for that matter 😛

"Sun Wukong possesses immense strength; he is able to lift his 13,500 jīn (7,960 kilograms (17,550 lb)) staff with ease. He is also extremely fast (Yeah well not in-game 🙂), able to travel 108,000 li (21,675 kilometres (13,468 mi)) in one somersault. Sun knows 72 transformations, which allow him to transform into various animals and objects; however, he has trouble transforming into other forms, due to the accompanying incomplete transformation of his tail. Sun Wukong is a skilled fighter, capable of defeating the best warriors of heaven. Each of his hairs possesses magical properties, capable of being transformed into clones of the Monkey King himself (Could you do something with this please DE?), and/or into various weapons, animals, and other objects. He knows spells to command wind, part water, conjure protective circles against demons, and freeze humans, demons, and gods alike."

And maybe you could make him ride a cloud like Goku rides the Nimbus in Dragon Ball, i mean you already have the riding mechanic with Fortuna's K-drive 😉

Anyway i really hope DE takes a look at Wukong at some point.

Sincerely a former Wukong main, Nezha rules!

Dude... His 4 can dominate any lvl anything. Especially with all 6 gladiator mods equipped. I can out dps Umbra excal easily... 

I agree he needs some love to his 1 and 3... But his 2 is great utility as long as u re-activate it every 5 health resets, and his 4 is as endgame as it gets.

 

Edited by (PS4)big_eviljak
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2 hours ago, modalmojo said:

I would not say Defy is trash, in my extensive experience with Wukong there are solo situations where Wukong is much preferable to other tanky frames like Rhino or Nidus, that is why I said Wukong is the most reliable solo frame at the beginning.  Defy is what makes Wukong unique among all warframes, and useful to me

Yeah... I simply don't agree with that even slightly, nor do I think it's an appropriate reason to leave Defy as is.

2 hours ago, modalmojo said:

Of course there are many melee weapons that are much more powerful than Iron Staff, I actually mentioned about this aspect in another thread a while ago, and at that time you defended Iron Staff by posting several gameplay vids too.

I defended it's damage, nothing else. People regularly ask for it to do more damage or have a different physical type which is simply not necessary. 

I've always held to it being a subpar weapon though.

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1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

Yeah... I simply don't agree with that even slightly, nor do I think it's an appropriate reason to leave Defy as is.

I defended it's damage, nothing else. People regularly ask for it to do more damage or have a different physical type which is simply not necessary. 

I've always held to it being a subpar weapon though.

I was wondering when you would chime in😁😁😁

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2 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Yeah... I simply don't agree with that even slightly, nor do I think it's an appropriate reason to leave Defy as is.

I did not say Defy should not be reworked, I said "the level of immortality" must be kept.  I would be extremely disappointed, after Chroma, to see Wukong becoming just another Rhino, Nidus, or Nezha, etc. 

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13 minutes ago, modalmojo said:

I did not say Defy should not be reworked, I said "the level of immortality" must be kept.  I would be extremely disappointed, after Chroma, to see Wukong becoming just another Rhino, Nidus, or Nezha, etc. 

I agree, though id prefer it run off of duration instead of energy per sec. 

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1 hour ago, modalmojo said:

I did not say Defy should not be reworked, I said "the level of immortality" must be kept.  I would be extremely disappointed, after Chroma, to see Wukong becoming just another Rhino, Nidus, or Nezha, etc. 

And that is unfortunate, but likely all the same. "Must be kept" is a naive demand, imo.

On 2018-10-18 at 12:59 AM, DeMonkey said:

if that means losing the current level of immortality for an actually useful ability then we're just going to have to suck it up.

It's highly unlikely that DE are just going to buff it, something else will have to give and since immortality is the only thing it does right now, well... doesn't take a genius to see what will happen.

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On 2018-10-19 at 1:48 AM, DeMonkey said:

And that is unfortunate, but likely all the same. "Must be kept" is a naive demand, imo.

That is not a demand, that is just my opinion - just like you have your own opinions and I do not insult you by attacking them! 

We all come to this forum to express our subjective opinions, but if you keep using aggressive wording like "atrocious" or "naive" to insult others just because they have opinions different from yours, you just project this aggressive image which I do not believe would gain a respect. 

I would not report your aggressive manner to the moderator this time, even though I found it insulting to me, but I will not have a single word with you.  You will be the first one on my ignored list in this forum.  Period.

Edited by modalmojo
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17 minutes ago, modalmojo said:

That is not a demand, that is just my opinion - just like you have your own opinions and I do not insult you by attacking them! 

We all come to this forum to express our subjective opinions, but if you keep using aggressive wording like "atrocious" or "naive" to insult others just because they have opinions different from yours, you just project this aggressive image which I do not believe would gain a respect. 

I would not report your aggressive manner to the moderator this time, even though I found it insulting to me, but I will not have a single word with you.  You will be the first one on my ignored list in this forum.  Period.

Hmmmm. Well that doesn't seem like an overreaction at all.

If you didn't intend for it to be a demand, maybe don't word it as a demand?

I'm not even going to touch on you taking offence to my choice of adjectives.

If my posts in this thread are enough for you to stick me on ignore then I forsee a short future for you on these forums, I hate to say it but you're going to need a thicker skin if you want to engage with people on the internet. I didn't call you names and I carefully explained "why" instead of just calling your reasoning atrocious and leaving it at that. That's how discussions work.

You'd be surprised at how few people actually do that. But whatever, good bye, no great loss to me.

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