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Magnetism needs to be changed (or replaced for another thing).


Peter
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I do not feel comfortable with this element in any way, it does not fit into any build and does not bring me any real usefulness.

You can tell me what magnetism is good against corpus, but then I ask: Why use magnetism when only electric gives me 50% damage against robotics and machinery while offering me 3 seconds of stun? another important detail (and I know that it has been said by many people) is that it does not make sense to want to take the shields if I can use toxin and gas.

And the biggest problem here is that ice and electric are limited to just two combinations.

It would be interesting if you could review this before Fortuna.

Thanks.

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8 minutes ago, Peter said:

You can tell me what magnetism is good against corpus, but then I ask: Why use magnetism when only electric gives me 50% damage against robotics and machinery while offering me 3 seconds of stun? another important detail (and I know that it has been said by many people) is that it does not make sense to want to take the shields if I can use toxin and gas.

And the biggest problem here is that ice and electric are limited to just two combinations.

it's ofcourse true that specialized Anti-Shield is unnecessary when Health has stronger Level Scaling(and that Impact/Ice Damage will generally cover the Anti-Shields you might need) - however to be fair if you're taking Gas you can take Magnetic at the same time.
and Gas Status is only good because of all the Multipliers we can apply to it, elsewise it's quite a mixed bag vs Corpus. strong vs Techs but 'eh' vs the Robits. we simply don't feel that generally since we multiply our Damage by hundreds, or thousands of times.
similarly to be fair i don't see a comparison to Electricity Damage - Magnetic Status doesn't Stun, it deals Scaling 'Damage' similar to Viral.
(Magnetic&Gas aren't the only Damage Types that are not particularly relevant for their Damage and just for their Status Effects, either)

what? literally each of the 4 base Elemental Types is a part of 3 Combined Elemental Damage Types.

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19 minutes ago, taiiat said:

it's ofcourse true that specialized Anti-Shield is unnecessary when Health has stronger Level Scaling(and that Impact/Ice Damage will generally cover the Anti-Shields you might need) - however to be fair if you're taking Gas you can take Magnetic at the same time.
and Gas Status is only good because of all the Multipliers we can apply to it, elsewise it's quite a mixed bag vs Corpus. strong vs Techs but 'eh' vs the Robits. we simply don't feel that generally since we multiply our Damage by hundreds, or thousands of times.
similarly to be fair i don't see a comparison to Electricity Damage - Magnetic Status doesn't Stun, it deals Scaling 'Damage' similar to Viral.
(Magnetic&Gas aren't the only Damage Types that are not particularly relevant for their Damage and just for their Status Effects, either)

what? literally each of the 4 base Elemental Types is a part of 3 Combined Elemental Damage Types.

The problem is that it is much better to use full gas in all cases by ignoring shields,I tested both in various situations in the simulacrum and the magnetic proc seemed more like a nerf in the damage, i need 3x more shots with Magnetic + Gas while full Gas kills in one shot, and also, in addition to Gas being stronger against corpus is the strongest against infested.

Magnetic damage is a nerf actually, when you have a riven with ice or electric you only have two combo options in each, and this is bad.

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2 minutes ago, Peter said:

in addition to Gas being stronger against corpus is the strongest against infested.

Magnetic damage is a nerf actually, when you have a riven with ice or electric you only have two combo options in each, and this is bad.

only, because you can apply so many Multipliers (especially math Bugs that get left in that make DoT's over perform) to make the Gas effective enough. on a more generic Gun, Gas is not quite so great when we leave out double dip math and don't brutally magnify it with Crits. without all of those stacking Multipliers, the difference isn't so severe since the Damage is partially resisted until you can apply Status to get positive Damage vs the Flesh targets.
and... Gas is completely useless vs Infested. Bonus Damage vs only the weakest Enemies in the Faction is nerfing yourself, which you seem to not desire yet suggest that Players should nerf themself by using Gas vs Infested. (do you also try to Kill Toxic Ancients or Enemies within 10 Meters of them with Gas or Toxin?)

but that's more widespread than just the one Damage Type? Blast Damage is never highly desired for the Damage(being decent vs Infested ultimately doesn't really matter when Corrosive is even stronger), Gas struggles vs Grineer + only Gas Status is powerful vs Corpus + is useless vs Infested...
it's not just Magnetic ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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I think the plan was for DE to rework elemental damage types after doing physical ones, but... their planned physical changes were so astronomically bad that they ended up getting scrapped entirely, so the whole thing seems pretty questionable now. I really would've expected a second draft of ideas by now, at the least...

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19 minutes ago, taiiat said:

only, because you can apply so many Multipliers (especially math Bugs that get left in that make DoT's over perform) to make the Gas effective enough. on a more generic Gun, Gas is not quite so great when we leave out double dip math and don't brutally magnify it with Crits. without all of those stacking Multipliers, the difference isn't so severe since the Damage is partially resisted until you can apply Status to get positive Damage vs the Flesh targets.
and... Gas is completely useless vs Infested. Bonus Damage vs only the weakest Enemies in the Faction is nerfing yourself, which you seem to not desire yet suggest that Players should nerf themself by using Gas vs Infested. (do you also try to Kill Toxic Ancients or Enemies within 10 Meters of them with Gas or Toxin?)

but that's more widespread than just the one Damage Type? Blast Damage is never highly desired for the Damage(being decent vs Infested ultimately doesn't really matter when Corrosive is even stronger), Gas struggles vs Grineer + only Gas Status is powerful vs Corpus + is useless vs Infested...
it's not just Magnetic ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Just read this before talk again. 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Damage/Gas_Damage

And blast has your applications. 

Now magnetic is totally useless, you don't need magnetic when you can use toxin only, magnetic is bad against any fraction, i never saw someone telling me "wow today I'll build magnetic to go index".

Another combinations can work well in some way, or damaging or crowd control while magnetic don't help in nothing. 

Edited by Peter
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47 minutes ago, Peter said:

Just read this before talk sh1t.

  • butts vs Armor, just like every Damage Type that isn't positive vs Armor is(and isn't atleast positive to the underlying Health).
  • significantly resisted by Grineer Flesh, the Toxin slightly strong to Ferrite Armor.
  • slightly resisted by Corpus Flesh, but the Toxin strong vs Corpus Flesh.  the Toxin slightly resisted by Robotic Health though.
  • strong vs light Infested, but poor vs Heavy Infested. the Toxin significantly resisted by Heavy Infested. Toxic Ancients are immune to Toxin entirely, and any Enemies within 10 Meters of them are also immune to Toxin while significantly extra resistant to Gas.
    • being strong vs the 50/80/100 HP Light Infested instead of strong vs the 350/400/700/1200 HP Heavy Infested is just nerfing yourself.*

if is you, that does not understand Gas Damage and the Gas Status Effect. and that it is only situationally powerful because we can inflate our Stats so massively via Crits and double dip broken math that despite often being resisted, Gas Status can still deal high Damage.

*: do you also not optimize your Damage to what the Enemies in other Factions with the highest Health are weak to? do you use Blast vs Grineer because Rollers are weak to it?
the rule of efficiency is always to have the strongest Damage vs the highest Health Enemies in a Faction, because those are the hardest to Kill. one should hope you're always using Damage Types that the strongest Enemies are weak to. or taking advantage of our conveniently inflated Stats to make certain things that normally aren't great perform well (DoT's vs most Enemies).

 

47 minutes ago, Peter said:

And blast has your applications. 

as a Status Effect. not for Damage. the only place it can hold for Damage is on a non Crit Weapon fighting Infested, where you will simply run out of Mods to put on and so going Corro+Blast is inevitable. but only after you've already pushed Corrosive super hard first since it's better.

the point, is that there's other Damage Types that are also very thin on scenarios where there's a reason to use it. Magnetic is the thinnest, but that doesn't mean others aren't also very thin.

Edited by taiiat
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My biggest issue with Magnetic damage is that Toxin exists. Why bother reducing shields when you can very easily bypass them altogether? To make it even stranger, Magnetic+Toxin is the logical configuration; the equivalent of Corrosive+Heat, but M+T is totally redundant. 

They should make it so that only Toxin's status effect ignores shields, but buff the status effect itself, and then make Magnetic a little better against certain non-shield health types.  

And give it the Bullet Attractor status effect that Void Damage randomly has

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I almost build all my weapons corrosive because armor by far is the biggest threat,

lets say you have a weapon that can 1 hit a level 50 corrupted heavy gunner & corrupted bombard,
chances are the same weapon will be capable of 1 hitting everything else at level 50.

A corpus enemies typically do not have armor, and shield does not have damage reduction effect

so if you have something capable of dealing like say 10k damage to a level 100 corrupted heavy gunner
that number could easily become 100k on corpus enemies since they have no armor, 

If a weapon has spare mod space I usually drop in blast, which deal more damage towards robotics.

I can bear to take damage loss when entering corpus missions with a corrosive build, but chances are the enemies are still 
going to be dropped pretty easily, but if I forget to switch out anti-corpus build and went against grineers/ corrupted enemies 
it is going to be quite serious damage loss.

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5 hours ago, taiiat said:

Potato...

Idk if you're trolling but look at this, and the role of the Ancients is not to make infested 100% easy to kill.

Ba53654.png

All 3 combinations of toxin are strong and versatile, explosion and radiation has its uses, since magnetism is 100% useless and we all know this, if you like to put it in your builds my congratulations, but know that you are losing a lot of DPS without no use.

One thing I've never understood in the Forum is the "different" ones, no matter how horrible things are, there's always someone coming up against it.

Are you paid for it or what?

Anyway, I'll start ignoring you and focus more on the subject of the thread, sorry.

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Magnetic would be great if it could do something uniquely useful, like instantly pop nullifier bubbles, or disarm enemies by disabling their weapons. As a bonus it could even be an alternative to hacking, where you can just shoot consoles to disable alarms (lore could state the spy mission consoles are protected from magnetic forces).

Edited by TheMostFrench
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