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New Conclave Battle Ideas: Capture the king mode, Warframe showdown


Ichirou163
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UPDATE: I changed the name of the thread since I have been having a lot of ideas lately for PvP Warframe and would love to share them to the community. So to not clutter the forums I will just update this thread rather than make a new one.

 

Capture the VIP/King

Something that would be fun is to have a team pvp mode with capture the vip/king since the conclave is clearly lacking game modes thats why people really dont go in or play conclave.

So here is the mechanics very simple:

- The game will have 4 players each where they will assign one King to be protected and if none is assigned a random player will be selected.

- Each tenno will only be able to select and bring one skill from their warframe's arsenal, depending on how they would like to play their game. The king will be able to use two.

- Each team will spawn on opposite sides of the map and will be able to choose a set arsenal of weapons to make the game fair.

- The team with the most kills of the opposite team's king in the alloted time will win the match.

So what do you guys think? I apologize if someone has already suggested this, the idea just came up to me after watching videos on how to improve conclave and imo the answer is TEAM BATTLES!

 

Warframe Showdown

Backstory:

The Idea is the same with the show back when I was little named Xiaolin Showdown. In that show teams would race to reach a new discovered ancient item and capture it so they will possess its great power and use it for their own agendas but to be able to participate in this showdown, each participant must choose one of their own ancient item which they will use on the battle and If they lose the item would be given to the winner as well as the discovered ancient item. The showdown that the participants would attend will be random challenges to test their power against each other.

Game mechanics (Part 1 rules):

- An alert will randomly pop out from the star system and Ordis will notify you if this happens. It would just be a limited time event happening maybe once a month at random times with a very short opening of joining.

- The alert will be a showdown featuring a Prime Weapon/Sentinel/Kubrow

- Players participating will only be able to bring in a Prime Weapon either Primary,Melee or Secondary to the fray. Sentinels will not be allowed to be equipped as well as sentinel weapons.

- Players can only join when they queue solo.

- You will be in a squad with other 3 players randomly who also queued and the system will wait out for it to fill up else the event will be gone.

Game mechanics (Gameplay):

- At the start the Prime Item will spawn far from people and the 4 players would need to rush through obstacles to be able to reach the item.

- The first two people who would reach the item will be able to play while the other two will be instantly dead without a revive and can leave or wait out who the winner will be, their weapons wont be gone.

- The mission would then change into either:

                    - 1vs1 : Simple they would kill each other with their prime weapons that they brought with them. Last man standing will win.

                    - Interception : They will fight each other to intercept a message while also fighting corpus/grineer/infested for the message for absolute mayhem. First to get 100% wins.

                    - Capture: First to kill and capture their assigned target wins.

                    - Exterminate : Most kills wins.

Winner will get the opponent's prime item and also the new item. Loser gets resources. Its a high risk high reward game there is no safe play either you win it all or you lose it all! Also it would be best if these alert prime items will have skins that are only obtainable in this game mode.

Edited by Ichirou163
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Outside of the few dedicated players, most people don't play pvp modes because they suck/people generally hate the pvp aspect of the game, which was kind of shoehorned in as a result of the complaints of the small group who does play it.

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5 hours ago, Xaelroa said:

Outside of the few dedicated players, most people don't play pvp modes because they suck/people generally hate the pvp aspect of the game, which was kind of shoehorned in as a result of the complaints of the small group who does play it.

other shooters have tons of pvp players why is it warframes lobbys few 

got to be more than the simple "cuz they suck"

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Quote

- The team with the most kills of the opposite team's king in the alloted time will win the match.

So the "VIPs" have no incentive to engage? No objective other than to survive?
Sounds like 3v3 Team Annihilation with a minigame of two people playing hide and seek just hiding.

11 hours ago, Xaelroa said:

Outside of the few dedicated players, most people don't play pvp modes because they suck/people generally hate the pvp aspect of the game, which was kind of shoehorned in as a result of the complaints of the small group who does play it.

Ignoring the dubious veracity of this statement, how is it relevant to the specific suggestion at hand?

Spoiler

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9 hours ago, (PS4)lokaspoka said:

other shooters have tons of pvp players why is it warframes lobbys few 

got to be more than the simple "cuz they suck"

It's even simpler: new player experience is abysmal. Lots of people asking how to equip guns, often shoved together with experienced players lingering around Recruit Conditioning (whether by accident or on purpose because RC graduation is entirely manual and mildly obscure), pitted against people buffed with mods they don't have yet, etc. etc.

OTT:

15 hours ago, Ichirou163 said:

- The game will have 4 players each where they will assign one King to be protected and if none is assigned a random player will be selected.

- Each tenno will only be able to select and bring one skill from their warframe's arsenal, depending on how they would like to play their game. The king will be able to use two.

- Each team will spawn on opposite sides of the map and will be able to choose a set arsenal of weapons to make the game fair.

- The team with the most kills of the opposite team's king in the alloted time will win the match.

1. How are kings assigned? Usually this is just done via RNG and I don't know how to UI this. Probably just better to say it's random and leave it at that.

2. Changing skills is probably not terribly favourable. But it's also a facet that's kind of independent from the core "King" idea. May not be a bad idea, but it feels supplemental.

3. Arsenal part is also kind of independent from the core "King" idea. As with 2: may not be a bad idea, but is also supplemental.

4. As SevenLetterKWord said: it'll turn into a lot of hide-and-seek. There are a few fixes I can think of--highlighting Kings on the map and through walls, for example, to try to force engagements--but their efficacy in handling the hide-and-seek issue seems dubious at best.

It also feels like what can (and perhaps tends to) happen with CTC: both teams elect a "king", which is the one who takes the opposing Cephalon, and the objective turns into killing the other Cephalon carrier. There's the added part about scoring, but it still makes me wonder if something like this is both A: sufficiently distinct and B: distinct in a good way.

A more unique addition to Conclave would be something objective-based that limits movement via gameplay. See, for example, Interception: bullet jumping and the like may not be restricted mechanically, but players have to move within a confined volume to take a point. Maybe something like that could be worked into the "king" idea? (A throne of sorts they have to vie for?)

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1 hour ago, Tyreaus said:

It's even simpler: new player experience is abysmal. Lots of people asking how to equip guns, often shoved together with experienced players lingering around Recruit Conditioning (whether by accident or on purpose because RC graduation is entirely manual and mildly obscure), pitted against people buffed with mods they don't have yet, etc. etc.

OTT:

1. How are kings assigned? Usually this is just done via RNG and I don't know how to UI this. Probably just better to say it's random and leave it at that.

2. Changing skills is probably not terribly favourable. But it's also a facet that's kind of independent from the core "King" idea. May not be a bad idea, but it feels supplemental.

3. Arsenal part is also kind of independent from the core "King" idea. As with 2: may not be a bad idea, but is also supplemental.

4. As SevenLetterKWord said: it'll turn into a lot of hide-and-seek. There are a few fixes I can think of--highlighting Kings on the map and through walls, for example, to try to force engagements--but their efficacy in handling the hide-and-seek issue seems dubious at best.

It also feels like what can (and perhaps tends to) happen with CTC: both teams elect a "king", which is the one who takes the opposing Cephalon, and the objective turns into killing the other Cephalon carrier. There's the added part about scoring, but it still makes me wonder if something like this is both A: sufficiently distinct and B: distinct in a good way.

A more unique addition to Conclave would be something objective-based that limits movement via gameplay. See, for example, Interception: bullet jumping and the like may not be restricted mechanically, but players have to move within a confined volume to take a point. Maybe something like that could be worked into the "king" idea? (A throne of sorts they have to vie for?)

1.) This could be done by having a "crown object" that the king would pickup at the start or an implementation of new ui the same as when choosing characters in dota 2

2.) I proposed this because rebalancing every skill in the game for this mode only would prove to much a hassle to the devs and would cost alot of resources to do rather than restricting the players by making them choose what skill of their warframe they would bring.

If its hard to understand then picture this I have Excalibur I need to choose if ill bring Slash Dash, Radial Blind, Radial Javelin or Exalted Blade (though I think most 4th ability shouldnt be included because most will be OP) and I decided Ill bring Radial Blind, the other team's Excalibur would maybe bring Radial Javelin or something giving variation in team gameplay without the need for too much code since the other skills would be turned off. With this the warframes would be powered down and "balanced" giving you a choice on how to composition your team and complement other's skills. 

4.)Yes I also think the highlighting would be good, and a much simpler map for the game mode would also help, with alot of open spaces rather than alot of alley ways with hiding spots.

 

There is no need to restrict movement as it would make the game boring and would reduce the probability of people enjoying it feeling burdened by heavy movement. Also for the King's incentive, yes it would all depend on the king if he would hide like a cnt or be confident with himself to help bring down the other team's king directly.

Edited by Ichirou163
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13 hours ago, (PS4)lokaspoka said:

other shooters have tons of pvp players why is it warframes lobbys few 

got to be more than the simple "cuz they suck"

Everything in Warframe, the mod system, the weapons, the Warframes themselves and their powers, was built to deal with constant flows of individually weak enemies.

Before we had conclave, we only had the dueling rooms in the Dojo. It got to a state where Sentinel guns were powerful enough to one-shot a Tenno. Stats-wise, Warframes have massive damage and low defense. Enemies scale to have massive defense and comparatively low damage.

In order to make some form of balance, DE had to cut basically all our mods out, re-balance the base weapon stats, and completely custom-tweak every single Warframe power. They've so far had to tweak 140 Warframe abilities, often several times each, as well as passive effects.

The result of which, which is consequently why almost nobody likes Warframe PvP, is that it feels entirely different from the main game, and is rife with small imbalances that slip through the cracks. DE do a pretty good job of balancing weapons, but there are currently 229 weapons they need to keep in check, and they're constantly adding more. Players loyal to Conclave tend to know these little exploits/OP items. Whilst some of the Conclave loyalists are honourable enough to avoid such tactics, there are a lot of players who just want to dominate, and make full use of every tactic they can. This further worsens the problem by being a very inhospitable environment for new players.

Push that even further by the lack of reasonable matchmaking/server lists, and you have a mode where non-Americans have to sit in a queue for an hour to hope for a match, or play with 300+ ping from an overseas server; all to get completely wrecked because you aren't familiar with the changes to your favourite Warframes and weapons.

I've met with a lot of controversy about my views for a functional Conclave, but I think powers need to be severely limited (a small selection of 10-20 abilities, available as pickups during the match), and all stats need to be normalised (or at least normalised for 'classes' of Warframe). I also think that the weapon list should be limited to 30ish Tenno-themed weapons, representing as wide a range of weapon types as possible between the different weapon categories. All the weapons should be available to all players (Teshin's public stash), and Warframe choice would basically just become a cosmetic choice (although if you were to have different 'classes' of Warframe stats, all players should have one from each category to start with). These free-access weapons/Warframes would only be for conclave, so players wanting to farm PvE weapons would need to do so separately.

Ultimately, I feel like Lunaro is the only appealing game mode, due to its perfect balance and high skill requirement. With balanced stats, a smaller list of powers that anyone can pick-up mid-match (regardless of frame), and a much smaller list of weapons, DE could make Conclave into a game mode that is new-player-friendly, entirely skill-based, and MUCH easier to balance.

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22 hours ago, Ichirou163 said:

I proposed this because rebalancing every skill in the game for this mode only would prove to much a hassle to the devs and would cost alot of resources to do rather than restricting the players by making them choose what skill of their warframe they would bring.

This issue sounds like something far from exclusive to this mode. What skills aren't balanced for this mode that aren't also unbalanced for DM / TDM?

22 hours ago, Ichirou163 said:

There is no need to restrict movement as it would make the game boring and would reduce the probability of people enjoying it feeling burdened by heavy movement.

I'm not sure where "heavy movement" is coming from. Movement in an Interception mode (or any area-capture) would be "restricted" only by needing to stay in a particular area to capture. And that's a player option. Beyond that, nothing would change.

---

As far as the Warframe Showdown idea goes, a few notes on it:

1. What do eliminated players (those who don't make it to the starting arena in time) even get? If they get nothing, then why would I bother wasting my time at a chance-of-a-chance to get a relic? Are skins really enough of a reward to get enough people interested? (Answer: No, for if they were, Conclave wouldn't have anywhere near the population issue it does)

2. I feel like it would be better if whoever got there first got their prime item, and if they died, the teammate could pick that item up and keep the fight going. This may even be better done if queuing in teams was encouraged: people queuing together are generally friends and they'll fight for one another, so doing it that way plays to that particular strength. Otherwise, depending on rewards, players won't have a huge incentive to be the first one to the play area, what with risking a prime item.

3. If the WF community isn't that into gambling that sort of stuff at all, especially in a PvP setting and especially among relatively experienced players (who have prime items), then you're going to have a very difficult time filling up 3v3. Moreso than TDM matches.

4. If it is bad enough, why would I waste my time sitting around for a temporary event that has a greater chance of just disappearing before the queues can fill? This literally relies on the idea taking off immediately, or else it instantaneously death-spirals as people don't waste time trying.

5. The big issue with gambling this sort of thing is loss aversion. People are not going to want to throw their most expensive items into the pool. Who would? So what you'll, inevitably, end up with is everyone wagering a Braton or other dirt-cheap Prime item. The only worthwhile reward becomes the new item, at which point one has to ask: why even wager the item in the first place?

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