What is conclave? we need a better PvP (and other player vs player related things)

[Drip_dip]

There are many if not most PvE games that have PvP in them. The most successful PvE games are at the top because they have PvP in it. Its all fun to farm for decades to get the things you want bu then what? sit and twiddle my thumbs till Fortuna? Im not saying it should be a focus, Im not even saying it should be good, Im just saying people need a way to size each other up when they not out there spamming world on fire or chilling in a room with hydroid for 2 hours. The biggest problem with conclave now is the space I think. If you look at other PvE/PvP games the place where you fight is an arena or a battle ground but currently in Warframe they got Halo style stages. This is a problem cause the walls are too close, abilities becomes too strong but if the arena were say the plains of eidolon, then we got something. No matter how much range limbo has on his cataclysm hes not catching everyone but in the current conclave stages u can be on the other side of the wall, not even know, and get caught in the dome. The update needs to be like fortuna or any other open world update. You go down to the city, speak to some npcs, go through the big doors, oh sh*t u in an all out war now. Take a page from WOW or ESO or Eve online. Conclave should be on its own planet like jupiter, the same way earth and now venus got the coolness. If you dont like PvP then just dont play it, continue with the PvE thing. Let all my grind and work mean something!

[MystMan]

4 hours ago, Drip_dip said:

The most successful PvE games are at the top because they have PvP in it.

[Citation Needed]

[Drip_dip]

15 minutes ago, MystMan said:

[Citation Needed]

This is mostly from observation because its very hard to find actual facts on this like analytical data, reports or papers(Im not gonna put quotes from random sites). If you do find any that would add or go against my point please feel free to do so. But heres something simple you can do. Google the best/most popular PvE games(whether 2018, of all time, which ever). Take a look at the list. How many of these games could you say DONT have a PvP section that is popular among its users? How many these top games Do have PvP? If you do numerous searches like this, find the particular ratings of each game and what aspect was rated,dates of release, growth rate, current user base etc ull have enough to get the just of what I mean. Essentially the difference between most PvE games is the look and lore. In terms of the dynamics of the game and how it runs they very very similar. Warframe has PvP, this is not the argument. My point is it could be way better and friendlier.

[Svati]

Putting aside that you are pushing facts with no proof, placing the burden of proving your point on others..

PVP is a big resource drain for a developer. They need to hire specialist and have them dedicated in a permanent fashion. One thing that is different with DE than a lot of other soulless companies, is that they do what they want to do. That,s why it's the game is fun, it's a passion project. Asking them to go out of their way to suit your wants wouldn't have good results. They would rather spend time making something new, unique in the industry and that takes a lot of their time.

To be fair, i think you are right that if this game had better pvp, it could keep a bit more players in. But I don't think this is what these devs or this game are about.

Edited November 5, 2018 by Svati

[Talonflight]

As much as I agree with you OP, sadly the forums will not support you on that.

There is a vocal fraction of the playerbase on these forums which will find any and all PvP threads and rant and rave about it until they shout down all competition or mention of PvP.

PvP has potential if attention was given to it, and added as a mode that isn't required or forced people to play, but everyone see's it as some sort of demon that once it is introduced will somehow "ruin" the game and lead to warframe's downfall. THis thread, a case in point.

I'm sorry, OP.

[CoolDudeMcCool]

Conclave exists, so I think it should be balanced and looked at whenever a new item gets added.

That's all PvP should be in this game.

[MystMan]

I wonder how much of the entire global player base, PC & consoles, actually uses forums  (this one, steam, reddit, etc).  I doubt it's even half.  Can we really assume what is said here to be the voice of everybody?

Wanting pvp is one thing, wanting AMAZING pvp is another.  DE has attempted 3x already at this pvp thing. That's twice more than other devs would even dare. None were successful. Why rock the boat a 4th time?

I'd say at this point that making a good PVP game is not DE's strength. It's safer for them to stick to what they're good at: casual pve.
Trying to please everybody often results in disaster. Those who followed Fallout 76's beta reviews can attest to this. That game will bomb hard. They tried designing a game that appeals to everybody but in the end it will be universally disliked. It has awful pve and pvp.  But I digress......

As for that comment about "top popular" games.....  I see Warframe is also in those lists (for several years), this in spite of not having a popular pvp mode. For a relatively small studio like DE to make it up there among the giants, that's good enough. That's amazing even. Why take risks and end up like Telltale Games? After multiple failed attempts, it's a perfectly healthy decision to stay in your comfort zone.

If they can make it in those lists for that long without even relying on pvp, that says a lot about the quality of their pve. They don't have to follow the same formula of other game studios, they reached those top lists on their own merit without copy/pasting from others.

There are people who enjoy conclave for what it is right now. Let them have that. Changing things more will only end up shrinking that already small player base.

[Heatnix.]

A lot of people want to pvp all the things. There's myriad games out there based entirely on pvp and shooting each other, but Warframe is the alternative to that. It is the exact opposite since it focuses entirely on Co-op with a dash of pvp whereas the vast majority of other shooters do an entire focus on pvp with a dash of pve.

Why do people want every game to be the same? To appeal to their exact likes and needs? If Warframe isn't doing it for you because you don't have pvp, go play-- literally any other shooter out there. How can you say that you like Warframe if you don't like the core of what it was meant to be? Idiocy.

Moreover, the amount of work DE puts into content far surpasses that of pvp focused games, where all they need to do is set a map for people to kill each other, call each other names and reminiscence about the escapades they've had with each other's mothers.

This is like having 4 restaurants: 3 burger spots and 1 for pizza. You walked into the pizza restaurant and demand for them to serve you burgers.

 

[Makunogo]

if the game was pvp oriented i probably wouldn't be playing it. but with that said I actually want to try conclave (mostly cus i want the mods) but nobody does it -for numerous reasons im told - 

no i don't want the game to be pvp oriented, but id like conclave to be somewhat touched up so the few people who do want to play arent left in teh dust. but if people are playing this gaming wanting ONLY pvp or it being more centered on conclave (our pvp). then they are playing the wrong game in my opinion.

Edited November 5, 2018 by Makunogo

[Highlord83]

I'd rather not see the digital fighting elite wreck another enjoyable game, thank you. Go camp spawns in CoDField if you want PvP.

[ArchXDiablo]

I will never understand the whole "go play CoD if you want PvP" obtuse mentality. What if I want PvP in the environment WF is? What if I want PvP with WF's movement system, diversity of warframes, weapon customization, etc. No, there aren't many alternatives to it because WF is quite unique. Conclave is a great concept because it does NOT force PvP into PvE. So those "PvE only" folks don't need to scream about it if they cannot handle not 1 shotting a room at the press of a button. 

OP, we are the vast minority at least in the forums. I've played many games not centered around PvP so acting like WF is the one game to be PvE centered is utter nonsense. I am in favor of diversity, of a game offering more things to do, something to spice up the usual PvE. I am in favor of development, and while some people want Conclave gone because of fear of toxicity (or is it fear of not being a powerhouse all the time?), I call those people toxic, very toxic to the development of the game. If we were suggesting forcing PvP inside PvE, I could understand, but suggesting Conclave to be expanded and worked on is very reasonable. If you add something to a game, then it isn't an afterthought.

[ZesiMuerte]

I am PUBG/CS player. I've also played several MMO in the past. GW2 and POE are 2 games I spent the most time on.

This is my first post in this forum. I recently started Warframe.

The reason I am downloading Warframe?

I am bored of PVP. Just bored. You know? You know when you play PUBG you need a lot of focus? At least for me. I am trying Warframe now because it is brainless PVE shooter. I don't have to use my brain. Just shoot and mash E. It's fun.

Please don't compare this game to GW2. GW2 is an amazing game by itself. ArenaNet built GW2 with driving out traditional MMO leveling away. Not happy with quest? Do PVP to level up to capped. Not happy with PVP? Do WvW to level to capped.

I believe Warframe started with PVE in mind and it should stay that way. I haven't tried conclave yet but when I feel like using my brain I will try conclave.

[ZesiMuerte]

I don't know.

Coming from a MMO gamer point of view, I would love if developers stop trying to cater to the PVP crowd because they are only diverting resources away from PVE content. (Unless the developer is as big as ArenaNet)

The fast-paced movement as well as the boring mash E melee wouldn't work very well in Warframe, in my opinion. Most players will probably not play at all. Let me use PUBG as example. PUBG can attract weak and good players alike. Weak players may have a chance to be the last man standing. That's why it was so popular. In many competitive games like CS:GO, it usually drives weaker players away. My friend wouldn't play CS:Go with me because he sucks at shooter but he would play PUBG with me. Why? Even though he can't aim for S#&$, he still has a chance to survive.

 

My point is, a mindless PVE shooter like Warframe, with its fast paced movement, probably won't attract many players because (even though I haven't tried PVP in this game) the whole environment and gameplay of Warframe requires a lot of skill to play PVP.

[vomder]

This game never needed pvp and never should have given into the demand. All it's done is encouraged those people to demand more and more of the game be pvp focused. 

[Tyreaus]

12 hours ago, Svati said:

That,s why it's the game is fun, it's a passion project.

This, in a nutshell, is why I've said before: step 1 to getting a PvP do-over is to find someone (or someones) at DE who has the passion for Warframe PvP. It isn't like they haven't done reworks on Conclave before, but it seems they lack the drive (and, I sense, the direction) to do another.

[CyberPrimate]

What about Grineer VS Corpus robotics/exosuits PVP? Big exosuit robots. Each factions robots have specific skills borrowed from captured Warframes (we already have Zanuka) which would allow DE to mash together all kinds of Warframe abilities. One robot could have an ability from Frost, Equinox,  simultaneously 

Doing it this way would allow DE to identify which particular Warframe abilities are balanced for PvP since its a Robot/Exosuit made o multiple warframe parts. Thus eliminating imbalances that would otherwise occur when giving people a roster of 30+ frames.

1 CC exosuit, 1 DPS exosuit, 1 Support exosuit, 1 Tanking exosuit.

Take four balanced CC abilities from 4 different warframes and put them into a Corpus Robot/exosuit. Same for DPS etc. This way it would still be a Warframe game and would not disturb the balance of PvE.

 

Example : A CC Robot/Exosuit with Frosts Ice Wave, Excals blind, Mesas 2, Vaubans Bastille. This is just an example, I havent thought this through properly, just making a quick example of how I imagine it looking.

Edited November 6, 2018 by CyberPrimate

[CyberPrimate]

10 minutes ago, Stormdragon said:

All abilities (barring Revenant's kit) have already been rebalanced to fit a pvp environment, some have even been completely reworked for that purpose and have managed to keep their theme really good while at it, some examples being Banshee's Silence (nullifiies enemy powers); Nekros' Terrify (halves damage output of affected enemies), Desecrate (allows you to temporarily see desecrated enemies through walls when they respawn) and Shadows of the Dead (allows the user to bypass respawn timer), so as pointed before, there's no need to worry with PvP balance breaking PvE abilities.

Ok, but its Conclave... That movement is just too much for most players I think. Ive watched a few videos and it looked like some epileptic guys having a seizure on their controllers. Kinda reminded me of that oldschool game Ricochet. 

What I was thinking was to leave the abilities as they are. And give the Exosuits a cooldown on parkour like movement so it still maintains that Warfame feel, but is not as ridiculous as the Conclave. (If you like it, thats cool, but thats just not what most PvP inclined players would enjoy imo).

[Stormdragon]

47 minutes ago, CyberPrimate said:

Ok, but its Conclave... That movement is just too much for most players I think. Ive watched a few videos and it looked like some epileptic guys having a seizure on their controllers. Kinda reminded me of that oldschool game Ricochet. 

Fun enough, the movement you see on conclave is usually the same, and even slower than that possible to achieve in PvE (i like to run mirage with a + mobility elemental mod + telos boltace + arcane consequence just to go fast without relying on powers like nova's wormholes), however there's also no reason to ever move like that in PvE since the fastest enemies in there die in a single shot and thats assuming they aren't caught by any aoe in the mission, and even if they manage to shoot back we usually run with damage reduction powers to the point of invincibility and can also heal back to full ehp in a split second, so i understand where that complaint is coming from.

47 minutes ago, CyberPrimate said:

What I was thinking was to leave the abilities as they are. And give the Exosuits a cooldown on parkour like movement so it still maintains that Warfame feel, but is not as ridiculous as the Conclave. 

I personally wouldn't mind a cooldown on parkour or even a stamina bar as long as it was added to PvE as well, making it exclusive to PvP only achieves negative things such as players feeling it more disconnected from PvE, for example, most players don't bother with improving parkour, energy management, or aiming for pvp because there's no actual reason to do it in PvE, so i guess adding a brand new resource to manage would suffer the same fate and make things worst. On the other hand, you can be sure that players who play pvp regularly will learn to optimize the use of that stamina bar and reduce the downtimes to make it refill while most players try to figure out why they are beclming sitting ducks after X amount of maneuvers.

1 hour ago, CyberPrimate said:

(If you like it, thats cool, but thats just not what most PvP inclined players would enjoy imo)

Well, it's totally understandable that not everyone likes the same things, and i guess it's safe to say that fast paced pvp games aren't everyone's cup of tea, even more when one like conclave is tied to a game where progression is mainly made by reaching bigger numbers and currently has no actually challenging content (imo arbitrations could have counted but drones only cemented aoe weapons + immortal frames as meta)

[RazorTip]

Conclave, or PvP for that matter, do not belong in this game. Not from a lore standpoint, nor from a gameplay standpoint. As it is, it's cancerous, toxic, and unwelcoming. My last experience with it was two weeks ago, in a Free for All deathmatch. All it took was me bringing an Ignis to set everyone against me, and to abuse me into leaving the match altogether. Not to mention the verbal abuse. If I had known that this weapon was so scorned, I'd have brought something else, but how was I supposed to know?

If PvP is to remain in this game, it needs to be severely redone. @SneakyErvin gets it. Grineer vs Corpus mode, ala Counter Strike. Two teams, one objective per map. This fits the lore perfectly. Hell, there could be a "Crossfire" map where both teams duke it out until a Tenno NPC comes in and lays waste to both teams. But this must be a standalone game, with dedicated servers and weapon balancing specifically for PvP.

Another idea for a PvP mode, reminiscent of the good old days of Left 4 Dead. One team, either Corpus or Grineer, must escape. The other team is Infested, they have to kill or incapacitate the opposing team, and are assisted by runners, leapers and chargers. Infested players could choose between the different kinds of Ancients, and at a certain point, randomly get the chance to be the Juggernaut.

[----Legacy----]

1 hour ago, RazorTip said:

Conclave, or PvP for that matter, do not belong in this game. Not from a lore standpoint, nor from a gameplay standpoint. As it is, it's cancerous, toxic, and unwelcoming. My last experience with it was two weeks ago, in a Free for All deathmatch. All it took was me bringing an Ignis to set everyone against me, and to abuse me into leaving the match altogether. Not to mention the verbal abuse. If I had known that this weapon was so scorned, I'd have brought something else, but how was I supposed to know?

If PvP is to remain in this game, it needs to be severely redone. @SneakyErvin gets it. Grineer vs Corpus mode, ala Counter Strike. Two teams, one objective per map. This fits the lore perfectly. Hell, there could be a "Crossfire" map where both teams duke it out until a Tenno NPC comes in and lays waste to both teams. But this must be a standalone game, with dedicated servers and weapon balancing specifically for PvP.

Another idea for a PvP mode, reminiscent of the good old days of Left 4 Dead. One team, either Corpus or Grineer, must escape. The other team is Infested, they have to kill or incapacitate the opposing team, and are assisted by runners, leapers and chargers. Infested players could choose between the different kinds of Ancients, and at a certain point, randomly get the chance to be the Juggernaut.

How does a L4D2 or CSGO knockoff make more sense for warframe pvp than a gamemode making deep use of warframe's unique mechanics?

 

[RazorTip]

27 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

How does a L4D2 or CSGO knockoff make more sense for warframe pvp than a gamemode making deep use of warframe's unique mechanics?

It's pretty much established in the lore that the Grineer hate the Corpus, and vice versa. It makes sense because it fits the lore. Tenno vs Tenno, only in the dojo, as sparring. Downright fighting and killing, it makes no sense, specially because of this little description, which I'll quote:

"Regardless of their future, the Tenno stand united against a common foe, loyal only to each other."

See that last part? "Loyal only to each other." This sentence alone justifies why PvP with Tenno fighting other Tenno makes no sense. Why are Tenno fighting each other? For whose entertainment? Rathuum is for the Grineer, Index for the Corpus. So why?

As for your other point, L4D and CSGO did not set the table for these game modes, I and others used these as an example for the actual setting of the conflict, to justify WHY this game mode exists.

[----Legacy----]

13 minutes ago, RazorTip said:

It's pretty much established in the lore that the Grineer hate the Corpus, and vice versa. It makes sense because it fits the lore. Tenno vs Tenno, only in the dojo, as sparring. Downright fighting and killing, it makes no sense, specially because of this little description, which I'll quote:

"Regardless of their future, the Tenno stand united against a common foe, loyal only to each other."

See that last part? "Loyal only to each other." This sentence alone justifies why PvP with Tenno fighting other Tenno makes no sense. Why are Tenno fighting each other? For whose entertainment? Rathuum is for the Grineer, Index for the Corpus. So why?

As for your other point, L4D and CSGO did not set the table for these game modes, I and others used these as an example for the actual setting of the conflict, to justify WHY this game mode exists.

So you dismissed gameplay in an attempt to go for lore, while also conveniently dismissing quotes like

"The Lotus seduced the Tenno. Led them on a complacent path like oxen. I failed the Orokin but I will preserve their legacy. The Tenno. Now is the time for action. Cast off your harness and become a pupil of The Conclave. Through trial combat, I will prepare you for the evils beyond the Outer Terminus. A warrior only grows if they face the ultimate enemy. Themselves."

Which lorewise sets up conclave as the place where we prepare for the new war.

Gameplaywise speaking, the removal of game mechanics that make warframe unique from its own pvp doesn't make any sense other than "i can't aim, remove parkour".

[Talonflight]

I actually really like the idea that was suggested earlier of re-introducing the Stamina bar.

[Drip_dip]

So I didnt think this would start up a conversation, was just sharing my thoughts, but having gone through everyones comments, in an attempt to express them all, here is a little bit of lore, a little bit of logistics and a little more on why I(me,in my own opinion) believe this is a good idea. I have to mention that I havent played previous versions of the conclave so alot Im saying may be null(If anyone can link me to previous versions that would be great then i could be more specific in the logistics). Also lets try move away from comments DE might have about this cause we dont know for sure. First, yes, warframe is a PvE centered game and I wouldnt want to change that. The mindless movement in stages is fun sometimes but for others who really enjoy the game and are stuck at a point of nothing to do(which I feel is at least a few, from watching "veterans leaving warframe" type youtube videos). If you dont want to do PvP then dont. Its already in the game and you already dont play it, so dont play the refurbished one. Simple. Again I didnt ask for something amazing, just something good that i feel that people who already play PvP would appreciate more. Cause the current PvP is not warframe, its like blackops or something. Im not saying this new conclave should be a progressive part of the game. Its more like a playroom or practice lobby. And because of the existence of conclave DE probably has employees who look over it. I believe the reason why warframe has less toxicity than most games is because there is no loss. When you lose at something in warframe it doesnt hit you in the gut so there would be little need to be toxic to other people. Refurbishing the conclave would not make the rest of the game more toxic. Moving on.

Tenshin picks up an odd signal from the atmosphere of Saturn and sends the tenno to investigate. Cephalon Aruna has been working in an orokin terraforming ship. After some years of being stranded in the eye of the storm on Saturn she found ways to communicate with the sentients on the ship. Infusing parts of her personality within the sentient guards that now help her build terraformed domes on the planets surface. She doesnt wish to leave Saturn but rather to complete the mission she started so long ago and see it through. A haven for species that will surely meet their doom in this struggle for the solar system.

 

The Mission:(This should probably come after war within cause new players would suffer in the arena, I suffered with my first eidolon hunts and got cussed out for it)

Part 1: Meet Cephalon Aruna - Tenshin sends you to the atmosphere of Saturn to find out where this strange yet familiar signal is coming from. You meet Cephalon Aruna and she describes her history and her plan to build a hidden haven under Saturns storm. She has built the the necessary domes and prepared the environments but the system is to large to manage. She needs more environmental control units from other similar orokin ships. In exchange Tenshin will help her develop her new planet so that he may further train tenno in the arts at a place where everyone can participate in somewhat secret.

Part 2: Get the environmental control units - You have to go to the orokin derelict to collect 3 or so separate modules from different derelict missions. With environmental units she can start up the generators for the domes.

Part 3: Fix Cephalon Aruna communication system - Shes been quiet for so long because her communication system is down. There is a section of the ship dominated by corrupted orokin units and guards that needs to be cleared. Tenshin gave you a module to install on the ship so the Cephalon can communicate with the outside world. This will also allow the Cephalon to 'merge' with the conclave panel on tenno orbiters.

Part 4: Move the conclave -Tenshin wants to move the conclave to a bigger space which will now be known as the Colosseum. but the transport ship needs an escort. With arcwings we have to escort all the conclave equipment to Saturns surface.

 

And now my thoughts on the logistics of the PvP arenas...

 

Rather than nerfing warframes it would be better to add elements that stop warframes from being all powerful in the fight. Theres nothing a warframe can do that will get you out of the rift, or wake u from equinox sleep. There needs to be items like arcanes that can interrupt other abilities. The same way there is arcane nulifier there could be other arcanes that stop targeted abilities with a 1 min cooldown, stop warframes from using abilities in your aura for 3 seconds, if you get hit during a casting animation your ability stops. This allows everyone to be full force warframe but in the fight your abilities will have a 60% success rate because of all the ways to stop them. And because you can have only 2 arcanes it prevents you from being entirely immune. Most conclave mods could be transferred into arcanes. Some warframe abilities can also act like nulifiers. This will also get people into better cooperative strategies. right now as it is the conclave runs like CoD or battlefield or halo where your in a team but really your just a guy running around looking for people to kill where it needs to be like Eve Online or Dota2 where the team you put together matters. If theres a nezha on the enemy team and he got is halo up then sh*t, better think of something fast to bring him down, have harrow to chain him  and a mesa ready to put out all the dps necessary to get the halo off.Use hydroid 4 to take an enemy out of the fight for a good 30 seconds, unless someone saves him with an interrupt.

I like the idea of a stamina bar. Though initially my thought was that with in an open arena the parkour moves are very restricted though there is still a problem with guys that add maximum speed. Say for example a volt with speed mods and 2 active always, hes gonna be hard to catch. But thats what this is all about, the same warframe you are used to but against everyone else. If an enemy volt is problem for your team then figure it out. Thats why you have all the stuff you have. Get a harpak or a buzlok. Pick Valkyr and pull him back when he tries to run or pick Gara and put up walls hell struggle to get over. This game is about discovery. There is very little in the game that requires skill, thought and strategy. Let this be the one thing.

The new conclave would be a good way to reintroduce leader boards(I wasnt playing when they were first implemented but Ive seen lots of comments on it). This could be alliance teams, clans or even custom set up squads. Leader board positions get you rewards but not such that it disrupts the rest of the game. Like the rewards Sorties give. There could also be a dominating system where teams are compared with the amount of kills they get per week. Stay dominant and your dojo gets extra pigments or what ever. I havent thought too much bout the rewards.

There is no end to the battle. No waiting for 4 man team to go in. You enter into the arena by ship and are immediately in the battle. It is essential that the limit on the amount of players allowed in the arena at a time be high. Either on your own or with your team you established before you came in you rack up points. When your done in the fight you leave as you please and your points are tallied up. To make it a little more interesting I thought of having bonus markers on the map. Hard to reach places where if you kill someone in this area you get bonus points. In terms of the dominating system, your alliance could be at the top now but when you wake up in the morning it is no longer the case. If you die you get pulled out of the arena or respawn on the map, who really cares, no loss. Kill people with alot of kills in this session you get bonus points. It would be nice if clans and alliances could organise their own tournaments. Their own leader boards and prizes for winners.

More logistics and bad grammar to come if people are interested. Also more lore.

[SilentMobius]

On 2018-11-05 at 11:53 PM, ArchXDiablo said:

and while some people want Conclave gone because of fear of toxicity (or is it fear of not being a powerhouse all the time?), I call those people toxic, very toxic to the development of the game.

Right back atcha.

Simply put, I've seen too many good games destroyed by content that tries to encourage interpersonal conflict. It seems to work for a while, but pushing out the people who enjoy the game for anything that isn't player conflict related, then the numbers collapse and the game has nothing left.

Because people who like interpersonal conflict proxies, have a high tolerance for interpersonal conflict, strangely enough, and an environment of conflict is the very definition of "toxic"

I've been here from the beginning because I love this game and loathe interpersonal conflict proxies and the trouble they bring. So yeah I'd throw a party and buy another prime access if all PvP was removed from the codebase tomorrow.

Edited November 7, 2018 by SilentMobius