Jump to content

The first steps to fixing Warframe's issues


(PSN)CommanderRadec81
 Share

Recommended Posts

What is the problem?: The overall balance(mainly power creep and scaling) that is leading the game into a cycle that leaves players feeling like their progression was meaningless and a waste of time making them frustrated with nothing left to do and just leave to never come back.Making the game too easy or artificially difficult making the game feel unrewarding,boring and no possible way to have any endgame.

Why it's a problem?: Because it's one the major fundamental issues of the game that will lead it's possible downfall and leave all current content and future content no matter how much DE tries will fall flat and fail.

Solutions:

  • Remove mandatory mods (damage % and crit damage),Pistol Amp,Rifle Amp,Shotgun Amp,Dead Eye,Steel Charge and that weapons scale as you level them up to make it feel natural especially for new players(and make the base power level of the weapon scale with mastery rank like mod capacity) and to make it so much easier for DE to fix enemy health scaling (and also removing these stats from Rivens) and rebalancing weapons (example: Rifles gain 5.5% damage and 4% critical damage every time the weapon ranks up)
  • Remove multishot mods and buff weapons(damage,status chance and crit damage) to compensate
  • Remove Critical chance mods and stat and replace it by making headshots & melee finishers as crits and that enemies have weak spots that also trigger crits as well as banshee's sonars and buffing Hunter Munitions proc chance, allow abilities like ember's fireball be able to crit and improve the hit boxes because RNG based damage boosts should not be in a fast paced 3-D action game
  • With the crit changes above, the damage need change by having white(unarmored/unshielded/fleshy enemies),yellow(armored enemies),blue(shielded enemies) and purple(overshields) damage numbers for body shots & have red(unarmored/unshielded/fleshy enemies),orange(armored enemies),light purple(shielded enemies) and dark purple(overshields) damage numbers for headshot/weakspots      
  • Remove all bane mods because these will just become the new mandatory mods
  • Remove Corrosive Projection,EMP Aura(why do enemies have accuracy stat? honestly this shouldn't exist in a 3D action game because this defeats the purpose of having a movement  system and makes enemies either unfair or star wars stormtroopers that miss their shots even when standing still and instead turn their shots into projectiles similar to bullet hells like Nier Automata with different sizes and speed that the corrupted seem to have this already and that it makes sense in lore because the Tenno are supposed to be beyond a super soldier),Infested Impedance and Shield Disruption because these just trivialize content without the player having to do anything
  • Remove all health,shield and armor mods and have them be part of a permanent upgrade system similar to the operator(this effects all warframes,Archwings and companions all at once) that you gain a point every time you rank up any warframe,archwing & companion and select which stat you want to upgrade and will still have multiple ranks that will require you to rank up other warframes to fully max these stats(you will get these points for free if you already ranked up a bunch of warframes once these changes is implemented) out to make it much easier for DE to fix enemy damage scaling
  • Remove Flow and have it be part of the upgrade system mentioned above because it's a mandatory mod and it trivializes the "energy reduction" modifier   
  • Remove Magus Husk and Magus Vigor and buff the health & armor waybounds for the operator(and everyone will be refunded there credits and materials that you used to craft these)
  • Change Collision Force,Auger Strike and Buzz Kill( and other 120% IPS mods like these) into dual stat mods as IPS versions of mods like Shell Shock because mods with similar function like those already exist with Heavy Trauma,Jagged Edge and Sundering Strike 
  • Limit the damage type mods that you can't stack mods with the same damage type(example: if you have Frostbite equipped your can't add Cryo Rounds in the same build on your soma prime and it doesn't limit other mods of different damage types on your other weapons on your loadout to make a chose between pure damage or damage + status chance).
  • Mods that will require to be changed with these changes because these have stats mentioned above:Umbral Fiber,Umbral Vitality,Sacrificial Pressure,Sacrificial Steel,Augur Accord,Auger Pact,Gladiator Aegis,Gladiator Might,Gladiator Resolve and Vigilante Armaments
  • Remove shotgun mods(keep a few as exclusive mods for that weapon class) and balance the shotguns around the rifle mods and change how status functions on shotguns that all pellets share the same status chance(example:Tigris has 30% status chance so each pellet has a 30% to proc a status effect)
  • Remove Archgun and Archmelee mods(keep a few as exclusive mods for that weapon class) to use rifle,pistol and melee mods while also buffing these weapons
  • Remove Archwing mods(keep a few a exclusive just for archwing) to use warframe mods
  • Give Amps the ability to use rifle mods and buffing these weapons and rework Void damage to be actually be useful against anything  
  • Give the ability to mod Kubrow and Kavat melee with melee mods with own weapon slot
  • Remove the accuracy stat and have weapons to have their own unique spread pattern that is not random and stays within the reticle and also remove it from enemies that their ranged attacks are projectiles(no more enemy hitscan please because it just defeats the purpose of having a movement system) of different sizes,speed and visuals that don't blind the player because it will make these enemies fair to fight against than having to prey to RNG that you don't get hit especially being 1 shot from a stray bullet that you didn't see
  • Have the dot in the middle of the reticle only when aiming at a enemy & make it yellow if aiming at the body and red if aiming at the head/weakspot and grey if the enemy is invulnerable
  • Add a grey hit marker and hit sound if the enemy isn't taking damage
  • Remove damage %,crit chance,bane damage and multishot stats from riven mods while also getting rid of riven disposition   

Extra:

  • Adding a gilding system open to everyone to be able buff lower MR weapons to be able to scale for endgame (it will buff their stats but also the MR requirement)
  • Bring back the Conclave rating system(and be given a new name) to be more like a item level system like other MMO/RPG games (example: Destiny's light level system) thats its used for keeping track of your overall power level(there is a max cap that can be reached without forcing you to max out mods,focus or arcanes but is soft cap by MR and increasing your MR increases your base(unmodded) power level and has no involvement with pvp) for better balance for endgame and something for the players to grind for and block off new players from doing content they should't be doing(like Eidolons and Elite Alerts)
  • Riven Transmute no longer needs the transmuter
  • Riven Transmuter is turned into a lock that you will able to lock a stat of the riven mod when rerolling and can be done with multiple stats but requires multiple locks and higher kuva cost
  • Everyone is refunded their ducats,credits and endo with the changes I suggested mods to be removed mentioned above           
Edited by (PS4)CommanderRadec81
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, (PS4)CommanderRadec81 said:

The overall balance(mainly power creep and scaling) that is leading the game into a cycle that leaves players feeling like their progression was meaningless and a waste of time making them frustrated with nothing left to do and just leave to never come back.Making the game too easy or artificially difficult making the game feel unrewarding,boring and no possible way to have any endgame.

And then you propose to remove all the things that give the feeling of progression and provide only a vague idea of a "system" to replace it. I can agree that some mods, like all the multishots, could be removed (and base damage mods could be buffed to compensate), but removing all vertical progression (upgrading mandatory mods is a part of it after all) will just make the game even more repetitive and boring.

Also, how would you compensate the removal of all these things to players that put effort and maxed them?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The first step is to completely start over......................

I've had to tell someone this once and they couldn't seem to fathom what I was saying.

Balance at all stages is not paramount, it can be achieved to some degree with varying degrees of uprooting. The best way to balance, is to infact design the game from the beginning around the growing systems you plan.

 

What you suggest is a nuclear option (someone else suggested similar: to turn all weapon variants into skins and make every weapon equal (horizontal progression)) ; while these suggestions ultimately lead to a more balanced game, you have to understand the qualms of having players invest in a game for 5 years, spending real life currency on your changes. Failing to adequately reimburse them can be catastrophic.

Spoiler

Anyone remember when DE forgot to add lenses to the market, so the only way to get them was Sorties. Good on 25p lens selling for 100-200. Good money making times, but I can't help but feel if I were on the buying side, that I'd have been salty-incarnate.  

I CAN'T EVEN GET A REFUND ON THE IRIDITE I PUT INTO ARCHWING LAUNCHERS.

 

And this is small scale compared to either of those nuclear changes. 

Not to mention the cost weight of the effort involved of system redesigns.

 

You have to think of balance, effort and reimbursement if you plan on going nuclear. Regardless there are ways to salvage the current systems in the game.

Edited by Synpai
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, (PS4)ZERO_ghost90 said:

So you want mandatory rivens instead of mandatory regular mods?

Seems like you completely miss this post.

  • Remove mandatory mods (damage %,multishot and crit damage),Pistol Amp,Rifle Amp,Shotgun Amp,Dead Eye,Steel Charge,flight speed mod and that weapons scale as you level them up to make it feel natural especially for new players(and make the base power level of the weapon scale with mastery rank like mod capacity) and to make it so much easier for DE to fix enemy health scaling (and also removing these stats from Rivens) and rebalancing weapons
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Justo ahora, (PS4)CommanderRadec81 dijo:

Because they are a waste of the new players time,credits, and endo.

Nah fam, new players dont even have acces to potatos, wich means that they dont need the regular mods at that point, the ones that advanced players normaly use, making the flawed modes a relly good tutorial, most players will use the armor, health and shield, and this makes the new players learn how  to make builds without feeling restricted, aaand they dont even need better mods, tutorial  planets have low level enemoes anyway

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hace 4 minutos, (PS4)CommanderRadec81 dijo:

Seems like you completely miss this post.

  • Remove mandatory mods (damage %,multishot and crit damage),Pistol Amp,Rifle Amp,Shotgun Amp,Dead Eye,Steel Charge,flight speed mod and that weapons scale as you level them up to make it feel natural especially for new players(and make the base power level of the weapon scale with mastery rank like mod capacity) and to make it so much easier for DE to fix enemy health scaling (and also removing these stats from Rivens) and rebalancing weapons

I like the idea, and its pretty good on paper, but just looking at the considerable amount of plat that flows trhough the riven market, i dont think that the devs will make a major change on how they work, there is not much else to say about them

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Genitive said:

And then you propose to remove all the things that give the feeling of progression and provide only a vague idea of a "system" to replace it. I can agree that some mods, like all the multishots, could be removed (and base damage mods could be buffed to compensate), but removing all vertical progression (upgrading mandatory mods is a part of it after all) will just make the game even more repetitive and boring.

Also, how would you compensate the removal of all these things to players that put effort and maxed them?

I want these mods gone because I want the game to finally give me and others some freedom to builds to actually have variety.

  • Remove mandatory mods (damage %,multishot and crit damage),Pistol Amp,Rifle Amp,Shotgun Amp,Dead Eye,Steel Charge,flight speed mod and that weapons scale as you level them up to make it feel natural especially for new players(and make the base power level of the weapon scale with mastery rank like mod capacity) and to make it so much easier for DE to fix enemy health scaling (and also removing these stats from Rivens) and rebalancing weapons
  • Remove all health,shield and armor mods and have them be part of a permanent upgrade system similar to the operator to make it much easier for DE to fix enemy damage scaling

And an example of a game that does this kind of upgrade system is the Ratchet & Clank series (mainly the 2nd & 3rd game)

Edited by (PS4)CommanderRadec81
Link to comment
Share on other sites

hace 1 minuto, (PS4)CommanderRadec81 dijo:

I want these mods gone because I want the game to finally give me and others some freedom to builds to actually have variety.

 

I feel you man, i would really love to skip all the raw damage mods and shove a lot of utility mods on my weapons, but riven mods have roots to deep in the game, and cant be tweaked whitout killing the riven economy economy (a good chunk% of the ingame platinum) or making the rivens mandatory, wich kills the market anyways, because making them easier to get will devalue them proportionaly

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, (PS4)ZERO_ghost90 said:

I like the idea, and its pretty good on paper, but just looking at the considerable amount of plat that flows trhough the riven market, i dont think that the devs will make a major change on how they work, there is not much else to say about them

The game basically already has the system in place with the warframe abilities ranking up in their stats without mods it just needs it for the weapons.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hace 11 minutos, (XB1)LostKnightSouls dijo:

I would agree with some of the things you said but you are taking the player freedom by taking out to much of the mods explain crit damage, the bane mods as well not allowing to boost the damage of the status which the player wants and you try add multishot to the weapon another way to add it.

What do you mean? Doesnt the bane mods boost your TOTAL damage? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And before anyone of you tell me "play other game" I ask you what? I already finished all the games I have and I'm only excited for Doom Eternal,Devil May Cry 5,Darksiders 3,Lost Soul Aside and Spyro Reignited Trilogy. I just can't let this game be left in its broken state because I love this game(I rarely ever say that for any game and only to my childhood favorites) too much for it to die. 

Edited by (PS4)CommanderRadec81
Link to comment
Share on other sites

hace 2 minutos, (PS4)CommanderRadec81 dijo:

And before anyone of you tell me "play other game" I ask you what? I already finished all the games I have and I'm only excited for Doom Eternal,Devil May Cry 5,Darksiders 3 and Spyro Reignited Trilogy. I just can't let this game be left in its broken state because I love this game(I rarely ever say that for any game and only to my childhood favorites) too much for it to die. 

Are you familiar with the ps3 free to play game DUST514? I even made feeddback in those forums, that sht hurt (it died btw)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, (PS4)ZERO_ghost90 said:

Are you familiar with the ps3 free to play game DUST514? I even made feeddback in those forums, that sht hurt (it died btw)

Never had a PS3 or internet (and the only the games I heard from everybody I meet was COD and nintendo games) because I was poor at the time and no I've never heard of that game and also damn dude that hurts I feel sorry for you.

Edited by (PS4)CommanderRadec81
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, (PS4)CommanderRadec81 said:
  • Remove mandatory mods (damage %,multishot and crit damage),Pistol Amp,Rifle Amp,Shotgun Amp,Dead Eye,Steel Charge,flight speed mod and that weapons scale as you level them up to make it feel natural especially for new players(and make the base power level of the weapon scale with mastery rank like mod capacity) and to make it so much easier for DE to fix enemy health scaling (and also removing these stats from Rivens) and rebalancing weapons
  • Remove all bane mods because these will just become the new mandatory mods
  • Remove Corrosive Projection,EMP Aura(why do enemies have accuracy stat?),Infested Impedance and Shield Disruption because these just trivialize content without the player having to do anything
  • Remove all health,shield and armor mods and have them be part of a permanent upgrade system similar to the operator to make it much easier for DE to fix enemy damage scaling
  • Remove Flow and have it be part of the upgrade system mentioned above because it's a mandatory mod and it trivializes the "energy reduction" modifier   
  • Remove Magus Husk and Magus Vigor and buff the health & armor waybounds for the operator
  • Remove Collision Force,Auger Strike and Buzz Kill(and other similar mods because their should only be one of these kinds of mods)
  • Limit the damage type mods to only be one at a time (example: if you have Frostbite equipped your can't add Cryo Rounds in the same build)
  • Mods that will require to be changed with these changes:Umbral Fiber,Umbral Vitality,Sacrificial Pressure,Augur Accord,Auger Pact,Gladiator Aegis,Gladiator Might,Gladiator Resolve and Vigilante Armaments

Remove any way for the player to meaningfully tweak their survivability or even their damage output? This is a looter shooter AAA standard MMO with no publisher, and loot has to have meaning, and the most cost-effective way is stat tweaking. Not to mention, this drastically reduces the number of options available to players, since weapons will pretty much have fixed stats. 

Also, enemies have an accuracy stat because otherwise they'd all headshot you the tick they started firing. Computers do not need to aim, they are computers.

3 hours ago, (PS4)CommanderRadec81 said:
  • Adding a gilding system open to everyone to be able buff lower MR weapons to be able to scale for endgame (it will buff their stats but also the MR requirement)
  • Bring back the Conclave rating system to be more like a item level system like other MMO/RPG games (example: Destiny's light level system) for better balance for endgame and something for the players to grind for and block off new players from doing content they should't be doing
  • Riven Transmute no longer needs the transmuter
  • Riven Transmuter is turned into a lock that you will able lock a stat of the riven mod when rerolling
  • Remove MK1 weapons and Flawed mods             

The MK1 weapons are there to give the newest players access to weapons they can get instantly, but not be powerful enough to dissuade them from starting the looting process. Flawed mods are there so they can get into modding systems before they have access to catalysts and Reactors. So, that's why they're around.

That said, these ideas are pretty interesting. Not sure about Conclave rating, but then again, I can't find much info regarding it. But especially a gilding system. If it was locked to weapons a certain MR below the highest currently on a weapon (15, I believe? I might be wrong), then that would certainly help weak weapons become relevant, and reduce the need for strong band-aid mods for them... which also apply to their stronger brethren, negating the benefits.. Have this gliding be acquired as a fairly late-game achievement as a reward for reaching a certain amount of power. "Well done, you've become powerful. Now, you can bring your whole arsenal to that level, with a little work."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now, back to the topic, not the riven themselves, but the riven economy, is a problem that DE themselves have to address, and i really dont have enough experience to make a megathread full of valid points, because this is now part of the skeleton of the game (spooky).

My conclusion, this is way too complex and needs major fixes, or tweaks, or however you want to call it

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...