Fallen_Echo

Arbitrations, how to make this game mode harder without the drones!

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So arbitrations came out and to most people its a boring slog with drones what further limit what you can do (well atleast to what most forum posts tell you).

I know that DE kinda shoot itself in the leg with the drones because they give out the impression that they dont have any idea on how to make a gamemode difficult without neutering all warframes what might be able to deal damage or cc mobs.

I thought how about giving them a few ideas? Most of us can come up with various ideas on how to improve a gamemode what doesnt require to apply nullfication to everything. So i came up with something what could help this gamemode greatly.

 

SPEED

I got this idea from watching the following video what shows the now patched broken interaction of the power donation mod.

 

As you can see throught increasing the speed of enemies these lv 50 mooks suddenly become extremely threatening because the aim, move and attack with almost the same quickness of warframes. In the video you can see gattling heavy gunners, bombarding noxes and an eviscerator who looks like he stole a panthera from a tenno.

It doesnt matter how effective your nukes are when the enemy is charging faster at you than the rate you kill them. If we apply increased cc recovery to enemies we removed the need to have the drones ingame because they would just break throught lines of crwod control and ruthlessly massacre our players.

Obviously in this case the rewards and the mission alternations need to be reverted to the original rates because when a lv 60 corrupted bombard shots 10 rocket/sec each dealinjg approx 715 damage at you that means your chances of death drastically increase and the risk no longer matches the reward.

Theres not even need to scrape the drones, just change them in a way that instead of granting immortality and power nullfication they now grant extreme speed bonus and drastically decreased cc durations.

 

So what do you guys think? Can this work or you have some other idea to make it hard without nullfication?

Share your thoughts.

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How about after every 20min/C rotation (normal C rotation of things) the boss of the planet spawns for you to have to contend with unless said boss is already on the map. Where there are planets without a boss insert Corrupted Vor and please give him fun text of why he's there. And if the boss has special mechanics such as Kala De Thane you'll have to program her so she goes invulnerable and shoots out ogris blasts (but please not as much as the Razorback or Jackel).

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I loved watching the rapid fire mortar/minigun turrets. However, the bombards and napalms gave me nightmares.

I get what you're saying though, we need another form of difficulty apart from "lul, can't kill me" status.
I just worry that it's going to make tankframes only even more of a thing.

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1 hour ago, BlazeDeval said:

I just worry that it's going to make tankframes only even more of a thing.

Not necessearly because in this case having cc is once again important not like currently.

Having a max slow nova, vauban for bastilles, zephyr tornados, etc... becomes relevant because the enemies no longer just go and be like " #nullfier #canttouchme " but for a reduced duration will suffer from them.

This also makes a good use of the boon we get because if you get rolled +strenght nova you would not say that its useless but think that finally you wont get obliterated by John Prodmans lesser know sibling Gattling-arm Techman.

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11 hours ago, MageSkeleton said:

How about after every 20min/C rotation (normal C rotation of things) the boss of the planet spawns for you to have to contend with unless said boss is already on the map. Where there are planets without a boss insert Corrupted Vor and please give him fun text of why he's there. And if the boss has special mechanics such as Kala De Thane you'll have to program her so she goes invulnerable and shoots out ogris blasts (but please not as much as the Razorback or Jackel).

Some mini-bosses would be interesting too but i would go for non-existant chars as killing vor over and over sounds lore breaking because this is not a simulation.

Killing some experimental grineer, a prototype proxy, an abonimation or some corrupted entity would be fine.

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8 minutes ago, The_Tachyon1345 said:

lol just make it sortie 2.0

Is that an actual plan by the devs? Are they reworking the sorties?

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vor 20 Stunden schrieb Fallen_Echo:

So arbitrations came out and to most people its a boring slog with drones what further limit what you can do (well atleast to what most forum posts tell you).

Only because a few loud people make dozens of post doesnt mean that it is what the majority thinks.

In my clan for example most people like the Arbitrations and have no problem with the drones (and no one bothers to come to this place to make a post about it)

I am fine with the drones and looking at our abilities i think we will always need some sort of nullification to get some sort of challenge.

 

Also, in a topic dedicated to the drones, there a roughly 5 people that post over and over again explaining why the drones are so bad and make the post super long and make it look like its a real big issue, but if you take a look at the likes for example (i know, you cannot only look at this, but still its an indicator) you can see that the post that basically say "i have no problem at all, i just do x or y to deal with them and i think its fine/necessary" get lots of likes while the ones complaining only get very few likes or upvotes, probably from the same guys that are also posting there.

 

So its a big mistake to say "to most people its a boring slog" when there are many many people who simply enjoy it and dont say anything about it or just leave a like here and there.

 

But ontopic, i can think of a few ways to make it harder:

- raise the starting lvl just a bit again to lvl 70 again

- i have seen post that the lvl goes up slower then in other missions, so that could be also brought back to normal

- like every 5 minutes or so, spawn a mob of strong enemies, like lots of noxes/bursas/eximus.

(bursas can become a real threat after some time here even if the come alone, so a bunch of them can be really devastating)

- in the razorback Event, on the way to the razorback there were tons of bursas and these little spiderthings (forgot their name). But since they were at lvl 30 or something they havent been a thread at all and you could just walk past them, adding them in this scenario in such numbers could be something different.

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1 minute ago, DreisterDino said:

Only because a few loud people make dozens of post doesnt mean that it is what the majority thinks.

In my clan for example most people like the Arbitrations and have no problem with the drones (and no one bothers to come to this place to make a post about it)

I am fine with the drones and looking at our abilities i think we will always need some sort of nullification to get some sort of challenge.

 

Also, in a topic dedicated to the drones, there a roughly 5 people that post over and over again explaining why the drones are so bad and make the post super long and make it look like its a real big issue, but if you take a look at the likes for example (i know, you cannot only look at this, but still its an indicator) you can see that the post that basically say "i have no problem at all, i just do x or y to deal with them and i think its fine/necessary" get lots of likes while the ones complaining only get very few likes or upvotes, probably from the same guys that are also posting there.

 

So its a big mistake to say "to most people its a boring slog" when there are many many people who simply enjoy it and dont say anything about it or just leave a like here and there.

 

But ontopic, i can think of a few ways to make it harder:

- raise the starting lvl just a bit again to lvl 70 again

- i have seen post that the lvl goes up slower then in other missions, so that could be also brought back to normal

- like every 5 minutes or so, spawn a mob of strong enemies, like lots of noxes/bursas/eximus.

(bursas can become a real threat after some time here even if the come alone, so a bunch of them can be really devastating)

- in the razorback Event, on the way to the razorback there were tons of bursas and these little spiderthings (forgot their name). But since they were at lvl 30 or something they havent been a thread at all and you could just walk past them, adding them in this scenario in such numbers could be something different.

I dont know man, i havent really seen any positive reception on the wf reddit page too.

I played some defense runs and the only way i can make it to round 20 was to play while i was playing yugioh on my phone.

In another thread it was already confirmed that the scaling is much slower than any regular gamemodes and it also look like they deal half as much damage as normal mobs too.

The drones in my opnion severly limit the frame choices already by making sure that most casters and cc frames simply cant utilize their powers. I call them wukong drones because why play anything what requies skills when most of the time you are not going to use them? Just get a self-buffer tank and thats it.

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@DreisterDino

Ohh quicknote: It has been confirmed that this gamemode uses slower scaling than what we have on the starchart, im now testing if the rumors about enemies dealing less damage is true aswell.

 

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You know that people bring SpeedNova to make the missions easier and quicker even in the sorties (which are higher level)? It certainly adds some fun, but it only makes the mobs run quicker to their death  - for example they just kill themselves over Octavia skills or get shot by Mesa on sight

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4 hours ago, AlinaBee said:

You know that people bring SpeedNova to make the missions easier and quicker even in the sorties (which are higher level)? It certainly adds some fun, but it only makes the mobs run quicker to their death  - for example they just kill themselves over Octavia skills or get shot by Mesa on sight

Now that it, with such speed bonuses the mobs move faster than most nukes could deploy. By the time the mesa shoots out that 15 shot per second something has already got to her and shanked her. Octavia can go and lock down some rooms but when something slips throught it shes pretty much dead.

Remember what you see in the videos are lv50 enemies at best and they are grineer. Can you imagine just what happens when for example a bombard spawns and does the same as the Mesa? Launching 15 missiles in a sec towards you? Its ok that you killed him but you are still most likely dead.

Same goes for other factions, you could get perma bombarded from the bouncing infested moas or get hit by the hook+acid scream oneshot combo from an ancient, swarmed with thousands of those little rollerbots from the corpus sniper or just have the luck to meet the gattling tech inside the rapid fire lanka nullfiers bubble.

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18 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

@DreisterDino

Ohh quicknote: It has been confirmed that this gamemode uses slower scaling than what we have on the starchart, im now testing if the rumors about enemies dealing less damage is true aswell.

 

Scaling isn't the greatest anyway. Same derp brain just more derp layers.

22 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

The drones in my opnion severly limit the frame choices already by making sure that most casters and cc frames simply cant utilize their powers. I call them wukong drones because why play anything what requies skills when most of the time you are not going to use them? Just get a self-buffer tank and thats it.

I like the drones I think the best solution is to just have a few types and rotate them or something. One day you might screw the world another it might screw you but you have to keep moving forward. 

8 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Can you imagine just what happens when for example a bombard spawns and does the same as the Mesa? Launching 15 missiles in a sec towards you? Its ok that you killed him but you are still most likely dead.

Sounds awesome can this be a thing?  Maybe each rocket would need to be less punishing but a rapid fire rocket launcher is so awesome I'd have to give the grineer some more respect. 

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55 minutes ago, Solarsyphon said:

Scaling isn't the greatest anyway. Same derp brain just more derp layers.

I know that but when it got introduced as something for the vets and such i expected starchart levels of scaling not a slowed down version. As for the rumor of dealing less damage i confirmed that its BS, its just an illusion created by the slower scaling.

57 minutes ago, Solarsyphon said:

I like the drones I think the best solution is to just have a few types and rotate them or something. One day you might screw the world another it might screw you but you have to keep moving forward. 

I would like the drones to act less of a horde bonus and more of a singular bonus.

Just imagine the following:

Lv 100 enemies, your team casually performs genocide in an orokin defense mod. Your boosters are up, the trinity supports you with energy and life is good.

Suddenly the music changes and a little horn style alert goes off. The Lotus patches in " Tenno, five drones have spawned".

The big door in the front opens and a butcher comes throught it but its different....the red aura around him indicates that hes the drone carrier.

You know what happens now.

His weaponary has been upgraded, in one of his hand there is a Gazal Machete he probably got it from the Hexis, his other hand cant be seen because of a magnetic anomaly around it. A magnetic variant capatable of using a pull attack on a single tenno, hes accompanied by a single Djinn sentinel. Hes shielded and his health cannot be damaged till the shield depletes, hes practiacally a mini boss. You rush forward to attack him so he cant pull you and cant cast an anomaly over the defense pod.

A seond passes as you propell yourself towards him and the realisation hits you as hard as Atlas punches an ancient. Ordis said 5 drones have spawned.

 

Instead of making frame powers irrelevant now each time you have to deal with advanced enemies who were designed to kill warframes.

1 hour ago, Solarsyphon said:

Sounds awesome can this be a thing?  Maybe each rocket would need to be less punishing but a rapid fire rocket launcher is so awesome I'd have to give the grineer some more respect. 

Not sure if you have watched the video but i forwarded it to show what can the speed bonus create:

I seriously want this to be a thing because this is something what i call threatening.

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