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Umbra golden bits and scarf


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36 minutes ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

This question has already been asked before, & the answer was no.

False.  The question has been asked repeatedly and we've received no answer.  Quit making things up.  There are Warframes already currently that can hide Auxiliary features.  

OP, I'm adding your post to my long-running thread which has yet to get any response from DE.  Feel free to leave a comment there to help out.  Thanks.
 

 

Edited by AlMcFly
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6 minutes ago, AlMcFly said:

False.  The question has been asked repeatedly and we've received no answer.  Quit making things up.  There are Warframes already currently that can hide Auxiliary features.  

OP, I'm adding your post to my long-running thread which has yet to get any response from DE.  Feel free to leave a comment there to help out.  Thanks.

 

First, did I say that DE said no? nope

Second, your thread is almost dead, just let it die already

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12 minutes ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

The answer was from almost everybody in the other threads that were created at the time this question first asked, it is unnecessary & it won't really benefit anyone in any way to add something that insignificant to the game

I’m not sure how you can say this with the amount of threads asking for the feature. It obviously would benefit almost anyone, since it would give them more options to customize Umbra. Sure, it’s not necessary but how would adding it be a bad thing? Those who don’t care or like the gold bits can just ignore it, while those that do now have a reason to play Umbra more or purchase more Excalibur Tennogen skins.

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3 minutes ago, OmegaZero633 said:

I’m not sure how you can say this with the amount of threads asking for the feature. It obviously would benefit almost anyone, since it would give them more options to customize Umbra. Sure, it’s not necessary but how would adding it be a bad thing? Those who don’t care or like the gold bits can just ignore it, while those that do now have a reason to play Umbra more or purchase more Excalibur Tennogen skins.

It's in the god damn lore that Umbra was designed like this, you can't just remove them.

Example, just look at the quest, he even uses his arms to hold your Operator against the wall, you can't remove something like that

Edited by Xenox_Ilz-ot
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3 minutes ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

It's in the god damn lore that Umbra was designed like this, you can't just remove them.

Example, just look at the quest, he even uses his arms to hold your Operator against the wall, you can't remove something like that

You can toggle Prime bits on Tennogen. It's in the lore that Primes have these bits, and you can toggle them. You can use the default skins which don't have the Prime bits. It's in the lore that Primes have these parts, and you can take them off. 

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1 minute ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

Where? I've never seen that 😕

Maybe I just didn't pay attention

Put any default skin on your Prime and you'll have the default looks(minus some shoulder armor like Oberon, you'll have Oberon Prime's shoulders, but you can replace that with purchased shoulder armor), or put a Tennogen skin on them and you get a toggle(I've heard/seen it from others, haven't actually done it yet)

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11 minutes ago, CoolDudeMcCool said:

Put any default skin on your Prime and you'll have the default looks(minus some shoulder armor like Oberon, you'll have Oberon Prime's shoulders, but you can replace that with purchased shoulder armor), or put a Tennogen skin on them and you get a toggle(I've heard/seen it from others, haven't actually done it yet)

1

Well yeah, you can equip base skins, but I don't see any "toggle" anywhere, I don't get it :/

Edited by Xenox_Ilz-ot
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10 minutes ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

It's in the god damn lore that Umbra was designed like this, you can't just remove them.

Example, just look at the quest, he even uses his arms to hold your Operator against the wall, you can't remove something like that

How does that even address the points in my post? You were saying adding the feature would not benefit anyone in any way, when in my perspective it definitely would be beneficial. Just because it would “break the lore” doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be a beneficial change for fashion framing.

But alright, I’ll humor you. Nowhere in the written or spoken lore for the Sacrifice does Ballas mention specifically adding gold adornements to Umbra. Even the Vitruvian entry diagrams don’t show Umbra with those additions. So the main point of contention lore-wise is in the scene you mentioned, as that’s the only time Umbra does anything with them.

Interestingly enough in said scene, Umbra’s helmet reveals his eye before sealing back up, so his helmet is just as important lore-wise by that logic. But yet players can change that helmet with any other Excalibur helmet. Doesn’t that mess up the “lore” as well? 

Plus the solution to that is easy regardless. Just force Umbra to be default during that cutscene (though I’m actually certain this is done already), and then allow players to customize him after so there is no conflict even upon replaying the quest.

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1 minute ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

Well yeah, you can equip base skins, but I don't see any "toggle" anywhere, I don't get it 😕

Unless I'm terribly mistaken, you need to put a Tennogen skin on your Prime frame, and the option will be there somewhere. Even if I am terribly mistaken, the fact that you can put a default skin on the frame and it'll make them look default is good enough to let Umbra do the same - preferably with an option to choose which.

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3 minutes ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

Well yeah, you can equip base skins, but I don't see any "toggle" anywhere, I don't get it 😕

The toggle is only there if you’re using a Tennogen skin. Those allow you to toggle off the Prime model so you can avoid conflicts between the skin and the Prime model.

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2 minutes ago, OmegaZero633 said:

Even the Vitruvian entry diagrams don’t show Umbra with those additions. So the main point of contention lore-wise is in the scene you mentioned, as that’s the only time Umbra does anything with them.

1

The Vitruvian shows normal excal, not Umbra:

Spoiler

maxresdefault.jpg

 

4 minutes ago, OmegaZero633 said:

Interestingly enough in said scene, Umbra’s helmet reveals his eye before sealing back up, so his helmet is just as important lore-wise by that logic. But yet players can change that helmet with any other Excalibur helmet. Doesn’t that mess up the “lore” as well? 

 

Well no, behind, underneath, or whatever, that helmet, even custom ones, they are still the same inside, infested flesh & muscles

6 minutes ago, OmegaZero633 said:

Just force Umbra to be default during that cutscene

 

Very immersive, but I don't want to replay the quest just to find that out

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5 minutes ago, OmegaZero633 said:

The toggle is only there if you’re using a Tennogen skin. Those allow you to toggle off the Prime model so you can avoid conflicts between the skin and the Prime model.

The only tennogen I have is the cape, that I don't even use anymore, so I can't see that button :/

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10 minutes ago, OmegaZero633 said:

The toggle is only there if you’re using a Tennogen skin. Those allow you to toggle off the Prime model so you can avoid conflicts between the skin and the Prime model.

Yep.  And it's only NOT there on Umbra when wearing a Tennogen skin, which is the entire point of this thread and written explicitly in my longstanding thread.  All other warframes get to change their entire appearance.  Umbra does not.  This is not fair or justified.  

Edited by AlMcFly
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6 minutes ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

The Vitruvian shows normal excal, not Umbra:

  Reveal hidden contents

maxresdefault.jpg

Well no, behind, underneath, or whatever, that helmet, even custom ones, they are still the same inside, infested flesh & muscles

Very immersive, but I don't want to replay the quest just to find that out

Regardless what the Vitruvian shows, it isn’t showing or mentioning the gold bits which is what I was trying to address. 

The point about the “fix” was to refute the potential break in lore that you were using as an example on why the Umbra toggle shouldn’t happen. Whether or not you feel like replaying the quest isn’t really relevant.

I’m also noticing that you seem to be ignoring my original point, which was that the toggle would only be a beneficial addition for fashion framers, whereas you seemed to be of the opinion that no one could benefit from the toggle in any way. Would you mind elaborating on that view please?

5 minutes ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

The only tennogen I have is the cape, that I don't even use anymore, so I can't see that button 😕

Yeah, no worries on that front. It’s only there to resolve potential texture and model conflicts since Tennogen skins aren’t designed for Prime models. Maybe DE will apply it to Immortal skins as well.

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The reason this hasn't been done yet is probably because of the age of the frame itself. It was released in China long before it was released here and it even predates the "remove prime stuff" option primes now have for tennogen.  When the "remove prime stuff" option was added to primes it took quite a bit of time for the already existing primes to be changed to this system because they were not created with that in mind. The frame had to be redone to work with this. Umbra likely requires the same amount of work if not more to convert to this system. 

I don't think it's a hard NO for this but I do think we will be waiting for a while especially since there are still a number of frames that haven't been changed to PBR yet.

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28 minutes ago, OmegaZero633 said:

Regardless what the Vitruvian shows, it isn’t showing or mentioning the gold bits which is what I was trying to address. 

 

& what I said was that it can't have those gold bits, because it's not even Umbra

28 minutes ago, OmegaZero633 said:

Whether or not you feel like replaying the quest isn’t really relevant.

 

I'm just answering from what you talked about ><

You said yourself that they might replace or not Umbra in the cinematic, & now you tell me "replaying the quest isn't relevant", you're the one that talked about it

28 minutes ago, OmegaZero633 said:

I’m also noticing that you seem to be ignoring my original point, which was that the toggle would only be a beneficial addition for fashion framers, whereas you seemed to be of the opinion that no one could benefit from the toggle in any way. Would you mind elaborating on that view please?

1

Again, I chose my words by saying "almost", not everyone, don't make me say what I didn't

28 minutes ago, OmegaZero633 said:

Yeah, no worries on that front. It’s only there to resolve potential texture and model conflicts since Tennogen skins aren’t designed for Prime models. Maybe DE will apply it to Immortal skins as well.

 

btw, if you have a picture/screenshot or something, or if one of your friends can take one, I'd like to see where it is, bottom right I'm guessing, but idk

Edited by Xenox_Ilz-ot
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10 minutes ago, Drasiel said:

The reason this hasn't been done yet is probably because of the age of the frame itself. It was released in China long before it was released here and it even predates the "remove prime stuff" option primes now have for tennogen.  When the "remove prime stuff" option was added to primes it took quite a bit of time for the already existing primes to be changed to this system because they were not created with that in mind. The frame had to be redone to work with this. Umbra likely requires the same amount of work if not more to convert to this system. 

I don't think it's a hard NO for this but I do think we will be waiting for a while especially since there are still a number of frames that haven't been changed to PBR yet.

This is really the only legitimate answer I've heard spoken about this subject.  Even though it's likely the answer, this is still not confirmed to be the reason by DE.  It's just fans of the game making their own explanations for DE decisions.  Keep in mind, just because it is a "legitimate" answer, does not make it a legitimate "reason for never happening".  We cannot expect the same amount of time to pass with Umbra as it did with the other frames.  It was a new project with the other frames.  Now it's a project that has been performed many times already.  

Frames are just meshes, models, and textures.  DE has already perfected the method of creating  multiple meshes for "with" and "without" features.  Hell, I can do this myself in the modeling tool nifskope.  They just need to assign someone to it, and do it.  This applies doubly for PBR.  Assign it.  Do it.  Stop prioritizing other things, like hour long dev streams where you chat about animal poop.  That's Dev time you're wasting.  

Nothing needs to be remodeled or remeshed.  The models and meshes already exist in Vanilla Excal.  Things just need to be cut, cropped, copied, pasted.  At MOST a little extra bit of texture file needs to be updated by hand.  

Edited by AlMcFly
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Just now, AlMcFly said:

This is really the only legitimate answer I've heard spoken about this subject.  Even though it's likely the answer, this is still not confirmed to be the reason by DE.  Also, just because it is a "legitimate" answer, does not make it a legitimate "reason for never happening".  We cannot expect the same amount of time to pass with Umbra as it did with the other frames.  It was a new project with the other frames.  Now it's a project that has been performed many times.  

Frames are just meshes and models.  DE has already perfected the method of creating  multiple meshes for "with" and "without" features.  Hell, I can do this myself in the modeling tool nifskope.  They just need to assign someone to it, and do it.  

I never said it was a reason for it never happening, I said it was probably why it hadn't happened yet. I honestly think it will happen in the future.

DE has probably mastered creating separate meshes but with the new frames they are designed with this in mind which is why it is so fast. The original frames prior had to have the entire model remade again which DE told us at some point. This isn't just a matter of breaking up the mesh, because of the frame's age it would have to be handled like the original primes: complete remake. 

With Fortuna around the corner, Railjack following on its heels, and who knows when the new war is launching there may simply not be a person to assign at this moment.

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1 minute ago, Drasiel said:

I never said it was a reason for it never happening, I said it was probably why it hadn't happened yet. I honestly think it will happen in the future.

DE has probably mastered creating separate meshes but with the new frames they are designed with this in mind which is why it is so fast. The original frames prior had to have the entire model remade again which DE told us at some point. This isn't just a matter of breaking up the mesh, because of the frame's age it would have to be handled like the original primes: complete remake. 

With Fortuna around the corner, Railjack following on its heels, and who knows when the new war is launching there may simply not be a person to assign at this moment.

Yeah, I put "reason for never happening" in quotes but I don't know why.  I know you didn't say that.  I was just proactively anticipating that logic.  :)

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