Garuda Feedback and Discussion

[ICUH]

Ability one: combine Excal slash + Volt shield
Ability two: Oberon renewal, just need enemy to cast
Ability three: Inaros swarm but energy not armor
Ability four: Mag magnetize + Rev Maceba

Yea very UNIQUE
do we need another press 4 to win? 4th ability is the most disappointing 

[-DG-ShadowPrime]

2 hours ago, Aleksundar said:

She was unmodded, and the first ability had THREE separate things that were wiping the floor with level 30+ enemies. The other abilities were fine, but I do feel a bit worried about the first one

You're making it sound like that's a bad thing in a time where 1st dmg abilities can barely kill above level 20+

[Aleksundar]

9 minutes ago, ShadowExodus said:

You're making it sound like that's a bad thing in a time where 1st dmg abilities can barely kill above level 20+

But this is also in light of certain weapons and decisions that DE has been making. Powercreep is real, and I would say that it needs to be avoided like the plague. It is a slippery slope when everything needs to be more powerful then its predecessor

And while few of the first abilities can KILL past level 20, all of them have some utility that makes them useful whether it be Ash with a slash proc homing projectile or Oberon with an AOE armor stripper. 

Edited October 20, 2018 by Aleksundar

[-DG-ShadowPrime]

3 hours ago, Aleksundar said:

But this is also in light of certain weapons and decisions that DE has been making. Powercreep is real, and I would say that it needs to be avoided like the plague. It is a slippery slope when everything needs to be more powerful then its predecessor

Powercreep only really exist with weapons. Warframe abilities have always excelled in higher levels depending on how it works. Matter of fact power creep is only a term associated with weapons in warframe. If this is OP to you what about Saryn's spores, Atlas' Landslide, Khora's Whipclaw etc etc. It isn't going to be any stronger than those abilities when face with level 30+ enemies (especially spores) and it certainly shouldn't be weaker than those abilities. The amount of weak ass 1st damage abilities outweigh the ones that are useful and good. 

So no, there is no powercreep like you're making it out to be nor should the ability be gutted and stripped of its functions that make it unique just to fit your definition of balance which from what it seems means that the ability shouldn't be able to kill above 30.

[locbatruong]

Garuda 4th Animation: Why not let her strut instead of floating? I personaly dont see anything " E l e g a n t " when she Floating around like Revenant. With the floating speed right now, it might be fit with a really deadly Diva catwalk --->
 

Additional for her 4th: After her 4 deactivated by any mean ( out of energy or just turn off ) A strong pose appear after that to end the skill and might be a potential final burst damage, or push her pasive go over 200% threshold (maybe 300% for an amount of time not affected by a duration mod). By "Strong Pose" i mean something familiar to Khora 3rd ability animation where she flick her wrist and hip...

Edited October 20, 2018 by locbatruong

[Aleksundar]

21 minutes ago, ShadowExodus said:

Powercreep only really exist with weapons. Warframe abilities have always excelled in higher levels depending on how it works. Matter of fact power creep is only a term associated with weapons in warframe. If this is OP to you what about Saryn's spores, Atlas' Landslide, Khora's Whipclaw etc etc. It isn't going to be any stronger than those abilities when face with level 30+ enemies (especially spores) and it certainly shouldn't be weaker than those abilities. The amount of weak ass 1st damage abilities outweigh the ones that are useful and good. 

So no, there is no powercreep like you're making it out to be nor should the ability be gutted and stripped of its functions that make it unique just to fit your definition of balance which from what it seems means that the ability shouldn't be able to kill above 30.

Not saying its going to be OP, I just am cautioning them to be careful. And again, seeing as Reb was using an unmodded Garuda, you HAVE to admit that its performance was a bit ridiculous. And all of those other abilities you mentioned do ONE thing, what we were shown the first ability by itself was pretty much outclassing many warframes ENTIRE KITS. It needs tweaking (again I explicitly said this) not as you say "gutting"

 

Oh and btw, OF COURSE there are powercreep warframes, you seriously dont consider pre-nerf Mirage, pre-nerf Saryn, post-buff pre-nerf Hydroid, pre-nerf Chroma (to a lesser extent) etc?Want to know the thing they all have in common? DE and most of the community considered them to be a bit too powerful and nerfed them. I fail to see how the powercreep term doesnt apply...

Edited October 20, 2018 by Aleksundar

[-DG-ShadowPrime]

3 hours ago, Aleksundar said:

Not saying its going to be OP, I just am cautioning them to be careful. And again, seeing as Reb was using an unmodded Garuda, you HAVE to admit that its performance was a bit ridiculous. And all of those other abilities you mentioned do ONE thing, what we were shown the first ability by itself was pretty much outclassing many warframes ENTIRE KITS

A single target execution that gives a shield and a personal orb to explode. That's far BELOW outclassing warframe kits. This is just over exaggeration at it's finest, it's performance was average, far from op considering what other abilties can do in the time you're mutilating one enemy for a shield and orb.

Edited October 20, 2018 by ShadowExodus

[Aleksundar]

My reaction to the first power

Evicerates a single enemy: "ok, this is pretty on par with a lot of frames 1st ability, flashy animation and looks great"

Generates a frontal shield: "ok... pretty similar to Volt but looks neat and gives some synergy, Im cool with this"

Can be charged and thrown to create a massive explosion: "Ok now you just rolled abilities from valkyr/excalibur, volt, and novas kits into a single power... is this a good idea? I really feel like this isnt a good idea..."

[Aleksundar]

4 minutes ago, ShadowExodus said:

A single target execution that gives a shield and a personal orb to explode. That's far BELOW outclassing warframe kits. This is just over exaggeration at it's finest, it's performance was average, far from op considering what other abilties can do in the time you're mutilating one enemy for a shield and orb.

You have a Volt shield, a Nova antimatter ball, and a valkyr/Excal pounce. That by itself is 3 abilities in a single power; all effective by themselves but someone felt the need to make a sandwich out of them for some reason. I can’t be the only one that feels weird about this.

It’s funny, Revenant started out as a frame that did too little (3 variations of marking), and now there’s a frame that does too much 😂

[-DG-ShadowPrime]

3 hours ago, Aleksundar said:

You have a Volt shield, a Nova antimatter ball, and a valkyr/Excal pounce. That by itself is 3 abilities in a single power; all effective by themselves but someone felt the need to make a sandwich out of them for some reason. I can’t be the only one that feels weird about this.

It’s funny, Revenant started out as a frame that did too little (3 variations of marking), and now there’s a frame that does too much 😂

Actually, 2 abilities and even saying it's like nova's antimatter drop is a big stretch, more akin to Ember's fireball. Excal doesn't have a pounce and Valkyr's pounce is an augment. If you strip two of its two functions it's just a single target execution which I don't even need to tell you how that ability will be in a horde shooter. Yeah, you are right that removing the two function will make it on par with the other abilities if on par means useless and weak . Excal slash dash does S#&$ damage, and needing a mod slot for a pounce is a waste on valkyr. 

So to sum it up, 1 ability doing multiple things =/= op and like someone from my clan said, they could just as easily pick another frame that has innate tankiness, damage bonuses and actual damage output i.e Nidus. 

It seems having an ability with interesting mechanics is too much, so let's just nerf it into the ground into absolute S#&$ for no reason at all when other abilities can do far more than what was shown. 

It's like saying Atlas' wall is OP because it can roll and catch more enemies than any other CC but in reality, it's tedious and sucks ass. 

 

3 hours ago, Aleksundar said:

Oh and btw, OF COURSE there are powercreep warframes, you seriously dont consider pre-nerf Mirage, pre-nerf Saryn, post-buff pre-nerf Hydroid, pre-nerf Chroma (to a lesser extent) etc?Want to know the thing they all have in common? DE and most of the community considered them to be a bit too powerful and nerfed them. I fail to see how the powercreep term doesnt apply...

Mirage was never nerfed only reworked.

Saryn wasn't nerfed either at first it was a rework to get rid of the whole press 4 to win but would require interactivity to make use of her full potential, 20,000 reworks later she still does the same S#&$.

Hydroid was never nerfed only reworked.

Chroma's nerf was in lieu of them fixing the math of his abilities, the amount that was obtainable was never intended. "Fixed a longstanding issue with number calculation being multiplicative."

So please tell me, what do they have in common again? Oh they've all been reworked/revisited/fixed or changed per DE's analysis. 

You can try and come with this nerf bs but I can direct you to each frame's patch history to prove it.

Edited October 20, 2018 by ShadowExodus

[Rayiene]

I love Garuda's theme, her design, and the synergy between her first three abilities; however, there are a lot of things about her kit that don't make sense.

First, her abilities seem to be tailored for close to mid-range engagements. Her 1 has her leap towards an enemy that is likely in a group and her 2 requires her to be close to the enemy to receive any healing. So why does her 1 give a shield that only defends from one direction? She is likely going to be surrounded by enemies and without any other kind of damage reduction will die too easily to any group of enemies of any decent level, even with the healing from her 2.

Second, why a shield? Even if the shield could completely cover her, she already has a healing ability and what looks like plenty of health, so why does she have an ability that looks to be made for a frame with much lower defensive capabilities, and that attempts to make the healing completely irrelevant for anything other than fixing what another ability does?

Third, her 4 looks boring and uninspired, there may be a hidden effect that was not visible on the devstream that boosts its damage to something crazy, but in the end it ruins the flow that is apparent with her other abilities. Its a situation eerily similar to Revenant, except the ability looks like it does less damage and has less range.

My suggestion is that her 1, instead of creating a floating shield from the entrails of her enemy, she would get bonus health and armor based on the enemy's level, for example she would get 10 health and armor per level, that would get her 300 at level 30, 500 at 50, and so on. This solves the issue with her 1 not fitting with the theme of the frame or the kit and gives her a defense that scales to the difficulty of the mission. Because of the scaling amount of health it would make sense for her 2 to heal a percentage of health instead of a specific number (If it doesn't already).

Her 4 could be the blood orb from the 1. Instead of locking the player in an animation and having them float around, actively charging up the damage of a nuke like a combo of antimatter drop and maim sounds like a lot of fun. It would cost energy per second to upkeep like maim as well. The orb could charge up damage from Garuda's abilities as well as damage she would have taken before damage reduction. As an added effect to her 3, when she gores herself for energy it also builds up a multiplier for the damage of the orb.

When the player is ready to cast the orb at an enemy, they could hold down the button to cause the vortex of blades from the original ability. The damage of the blades would charge up the orb even more. The blades wouldn't ragdoll enemies like the vortex but instead stun them until the orb is used. As the ability is held down the blades increase in damage and energy cost, as well as increasing the range of the final explosion. It would act a lot like Mass Vitrify, Gara's 4, except with damage in place of a wall.

These changes would (in my opinion) fix some issues that seem to concern a lot of players, while making Garuda more enjoyable and exciting to play. The changes to her 1 would help her fit in any mission, while also not making her too squishy for higher level content. Her 4 would promote a more energetic way of playing than before while also giving players a place to put all the energy harvested from her 3. It also gives the 3 a function other than just energy.

[FoxyKabam]

I really like the way she looks

I don't like her abilities though, she seems like a solo frame without any way to contribute to a team beyond staying alive and dealing damage. Garuda's fourth looked super boring/lazy aside from the animation and art stacked in, out of all of her kit that fourth is the real stinker. That all said her 1st ability looks like 3 stacked in one, it may cover for the bad 4th a bit.

I've been hyped for garuda ever since tennocon, now I'm more hyped for the crossbow shes coming with, it looks great

I'm hoping she'll get some good augments to bandaid that kit a bit and that she has the stats to make some mod space to fit those augments in

TLDR: didn't like what I saw too much; just gotta wait and see numbers, cept the 4th ability that looks super boring.

 

Edited October 21, 2018 by FoxyKabam

[motorfirebox]

12 minutes ago, Rayiene said:

Second, why a shield?

Because of her passive. With the shield, you can stay at extremely low health and dish out a bunch of damage.

[WarBaby2]

1 minute ago, motorfirebox said:

Because of her passive. With the shield, you can stay at extremely low health and dish out a bunch of damage.

Pity it's not omni directional, though... I see Garudas dying quite often by cheap shots in the back.

[Rayiene]

11 minutes ago, motorfirebox said:

Because of her passive. With the shield, you can stay at extremely low health and dish out a bunch of damage.

But without the shield its easier to benefit from rage/quick thinking to stay at 2 health. I was also thinking the shield doesn't fit the theme much anyway.

 

Edited October 21, 2018 by Rayiene

[WarBaby2]

2 minutes ago, Rayiene said:

But without the shield its easier to benefit from rage/quick thinking to stay at 2 health.

It also would make quick thinking pretty much mandatory for her if you want to have the max damage boost up as often as possible...

[motorfirebox]

3 minutes ago, Rayiene said:

But without the shield its easier to benefit from rage/quick thinking to stay at 2 health.

Rage/QT just leaves you stumble-locked until you run out of energy and die, these days.

[Rayiene]

Just now, WarBaby2 said:

It also would make quick thinking pretty much mandatory for her if you want to have the max damage boost up as often as possible...

Quick thinking would be the best defense mod even with the shield.

[-DG-ShadowPrime]

3 hours ago, FoxyKabam said:

I don't like her abilities though, she seems like a solo frame without any way to contribute to a team beyond staying alive and dealing damage.

Since when did team contribution became a must for a frame? She's not the only frame like that and from the looks of it, isn't meant to be a support.

Edited October 21, 2018 by ShadowExodus

[Rayiene]

13 minutes ago, motorfirebox said:

Rage/QT just leaves you stumble-locked until you run out of energy and die, these days.

Hope they change that someday. But even then, hovering at 2 health is a recipe for death without QT.

Edited October 21, 2018 by Rayiene

[WarBaby2]

2 minutes ago, ShadowExodus said:

Since when did team contribution is a must for a frame? She's not the only frame like that and from the looks of it, isn't meant to be a support.

Agreed... her concept is a selfish killer, not a group frame. With her passive, she's pretty much anti group anyhow...

[BlazeDeval]

How does the gore frame not have a chainsaw ability where you just slash and mince people up? 😕

[Phyrak]

1 minute ago, BlazeDeval said:

How does the gore frame not have a chainsaw ability where you just slash and mince people up? 😕

Garuda isn't a groovy time traveler

[FoxyKabam]

39 minutes ago, ShadowExodus said:

Since when did team contribution became a must for a frame? She's not the only frame like that and from the looks of it, isn't meant to be a support.

became a must for what and who I like to play as? I mean even valk has some support with warcry

[Phyrak]

Some thoughts from another thread for her ultimate:

 her 4 becomes something akin to Hela, let her send out a wave of spears upon using the skill, bleed proccing foes - damage scaling of the health lost too?
I guess for her 4, many people were expecting Hela myself included - using the mouse to direct the blades, that could be one way to bring out such a concept to direct the spears/blades. If she is going the exalted weapon route, relentless combination for melee and whirlwind of the glaive work perfectly for her