Garuda Feedback and Discussion

[mrrobotto67]

I feel like a liar because on the devstream post i said i only had issues with her 1 and 4. Now that i think about it i don't really like her kit at all. 

• The passive is something i can see on Valkyr, since it goes well with her gimmick, but on Garuda seems a bit forced and feels like they wanted to stick that idea ASAP.
• Her 1 is like they tried to jampack a lot of the ideas they had since they couldn't add them all, and top of that i don't know how good will it actually be being that: the swipe is very slow, the shield can only cover wherever you are looking at (remember that you are being shot from almost every angle) and the blood orb thing doesn't seem to do that much damage unless you are pretty close to dying.
• Her 2 is nice on some aspects but i fear the health regen won't be as fast as the damage enemies will be able to give you. Also the fact that you can't move that further from the impaled enemy could hurt quite a bit.
• Her 3 feels like they needed to add something for her passive to feel like it was worth it.
• Her 4 is basically a suckish version of Dance Macabre with blades instead of lasers.

Now, i don't want this to be just a sh*tstorm on the abilities for Garuda (this is the first time i have done this and it is because i haven't been as invested on a warframe as i am with her since i love Gory sh*t), i want to propose some ideas (i am not gonna give names since i really suck at it on an almost criminal level).

• Passive: Garuda heals herself whenever an enemy has a slash proc produced by her or any of her weapons in a 10m range (teammates don't count) It wouldn't be an insta-heal off course, the healing would happen whenever the slash proc ticks. It would scale when more than one enemy has a slash proc.
• Her 1 could be a quick swipe with her claws that could combo with a melee combo she is executing, next hit you do with the melee weapon would have a high chance (maybe even guaranteed) to proc slash for 3 seconds (maybe 2 since we are linking a lot of hits on a short time). This would be to help the passive but also would help to kill enemies faster.
• In her 2 She would use an already dead body and pull it to herself, from there it could do 2 things depending on her health. 1) she would get a porcentage of the enemy healt if she is missing at least 30% of her total health OR could buff power strength if she is missing less than 30% of her health or not missing it at all. (imagine she is eating the corpse like Hannibal used to do on his free time).
• For her 3 she could make something similar to mines BUT instead of exploding, it would grow a spike that would stab enemys, procking slash and blast because the corpse would explode. (it would be a quick pull in-pull out, also the animation could be her stabbing the ground with the claws). 
• For her 4 i think she could use exalted claws BUT instead of life stealing or invulnerability, it would give extra range to her other abilites and have combos that would allow her to pull enemies closer to her.  

I think this could be a better kit taking into account her gimmick. Will this (or any) changes that has been said will take place or even in concideration? probably not, they seem quite happy with the late product and i don't know if they want to hold on her release, But miracles can happen.

 

[GPrime96]

4 minutes ago, mrrobotto67 said:

 

• For her 4 i think she could use exalted claws BUT instead of life stealing or invulnerability, it would give extra range to her other abilites and have combos that would allow her to pull enemies closer to her. 

 

Not sure if you used Telos Boltace but that reminds me of that exact Weapon.

[mrrobotto67]

Justo ahora, VPrime96 dijo:

Not sure if you used Telos Boltace but that reminds me of that exact Weapon.

I haven't used it BUT i know about the passive. Remember that you activate that passive on a spin attack, i was thinking a pull whenever you did a heavy attack, and the claws would extend and grab x ammount of enemies. I am sorry i wasn't clear enough with my writing.

 

But aside from that, what do you think of my overall idea?

[Arcmourn]

Her 4 should be Exulted glaives I reckon. rather than swords and claws...

[GPrime96]

7 minutes ago, mrrobotto67 said:

I haven't used it BUT i know about the passive. Remember that you activate that passive on a spin attack, i was thinking a pull whenever you did a heavy attack, and the claws would extend and grab x ammount of enemies. I am sorry i wasn't clear enough with my writing.

 

But aside from that, what do you think of my overall idea?

Other ideas looks good for Synergizing her abilities to her Passive (Similar to how Nidus was designed) but my Concern about her Passive is some Meta users might abuse it with a Maiming Strike Atterax instead of her Abilities (Since this game is filled with ways to cheese).

[mrrobotto67]

Justo ahora, VPrime96 dijo:

Other ideas looks good for Synergizing her abilities to her Passive (Similar to how Nidus was designed) but my Concern about her Passive is some Meta users might abuse it with a Maiming Strike Atterax instead of her Abilities (Since this game is filled with ways to cheese).

Yeah, when i was writing them i thought the same, but that is on them on how they choose to play.

[Vanille]

1 hour ago, sleepychewbacca said:

Well, if anything Garuda has been delayed along with the Orb Mother till after Fortuna, maybe a month later?

What?

[Bismarke]

Loving her so far, but not a fan of the 4. I tend to like big attacks for the 4s like Saryn or Mag, though, so maybe I'm biased. Shame Nezha already has those spears for his ult, that would be perfect... 

How about, summons spikes as a defensive cage around herself while her claws go flying off and spin circles around her like that one Glaive combo? Does more damage the less health she has, high damage and slash proc chance, drains blood/health from hit enemies while in her cage?

Exalted Stave/Polearm made from her claws?

Launches her claws like Excal's radial spear? Impale enemies, drain blood, terrify, open to finishers, low base damage but high DOT?

Reduce health to 1 to create a blood explosion? Coats nearby enemies in blood; low base damage, DOT, they are terrified, and the casting cost for her impale ability is massively reduced?

I dunno, some ideas.

Regardless, she looks awesome and I can't wait to get my hands on her!

Edited October 25, 2018 by CanadianGold96
published early by mistake

[(XBOX)Rhythm Grey]

On 2018-10-23 at 10:33 AM, NoLazyShadow said:

They dont care about Valk anymore. Garuda is her direct upgrade! So i dont thnik they gonna change somethnig about that...

just to point out, garuda doesnt hold a candle to valkyr.  yes her survivability is probably gonna be crazy, but none of her abilities are exhaulted weapons, thus she cant use condition overload.   

damage wise, and even survival wise, valkyr has her beat. 

Edited October 25, 2018 by (XB1)Neon Lights9212

[Lior55]

So Steve said that they are redesigning her Ult (I hope it's good). Her 1st ability seems a bit off to me. I was thinking that she could have all of the blood flowing around her when she rips them in half and get 90% damage absorb for a duration. Afterwards, the blood shield detonates; exploding with the full accumulated damage that was absorbed in a decently sized AOE around her. You can detonate it early if you want. 90% damage absorb is better than 100% from what's directly in front of your/where you're aiming. If her ult is as interactive as it should be then I feel that this will be a nice complement with her 4th, 3rd, and 2nd ability.

Edited October 25, 2018 by Lior55

[sleepychewbacca]

1 hour ago, Kiwinille said:

What?

https://www.eurogamer.net/articleshttps://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-10-24-warframe-fortuna-wont-repeat-the-super-intensive-economy-of-plains-of-eidolon-says-digital-extremes/2018-10-24-warframe-fortuna-wont-repeat-the-super-intensive-economy-of-plains-of-eidolon-says-digital-extremes
 

*... including the giant boss spiders (equivalent to PoE's Eidolons) - will not be immediately available at launch. The spiders are due to wake up in a later update "anywhere from two weeks to a month after". The reason for keeping them temporarily dormant is to sustain interest in the update post-launch, but it also seems Digital Extremes wants to spend more time on development to make the spider boss fights "awesome". Similarly, Garuda (the new Warframe) may also appear a little later on. Digital Extremes is still deciding whether to give her a questline, which could delay her release slightly.*

[Atsia]

4 minutes ago, sleepychewbacca said:

https://www.eurogamer.net/articleshttps://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-10-24-warframe-fortuna-wont-repeat-the-super-intensive-economy-of-plains-of-eidolon-says-digital-extremes/2018-10-24-warframe-fortuna-wont-repeat-the-super-intensive-economy-of-plains-of-eidolon-says-digital-extremes
 

*... including the giant boss spiders (equivalent to PoE's Eidolons) - will not be immediately available at launch. The spiders are due to wake up in a later update "anywhere from two weeks to a month after". The reason for keeping them temporarily dormant is to sustain interest in the update post-launch, but it also seems Digital Extremes wants to spend more time on development to make the spider boss fights "awesome". Similarly, Garuda (the new Warframe) may also appear a little later on. Digital Extremes is still deciding whether to give her a questline, which could delay her release slightly.*

Huh.That's interesting. I guess that makes sense.

[GPrime96]

26 minutes ago, sleepychewbacca said:

https://www.eurogamer.net/articleshttps://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-10-24-warframe-fortuna-wont-repeat-the-super-intensive-economy-of-plains-of-eidolon-says-digital-extremes/2018-10-24-warframe-fortuna-wont-repeat-the-super-intensive-economy-of-plains-of-eidolon-says-digital-extremes
 

*... including the giant boss spiders (equivalent to PoE's Eidolons) - will not be immediately available at launch. The spiders are due to wake up in a later update "anywhere from two weeks to a month after". The reason for keeping them temporarily dormant is to sustain interest in the update post-launch, but it also seems Digital Extremes wants to spend more time on development to make the spider boss fights "awesome". Similarly, Garuda (the new Warframe) may also appear a little later on. Digital Extremes is still deciding whether to give her a questline, which could delay her release slightly.*

I guess DE is being Patient with her being in Fortuna and i would imagine the Spider boss fight is going to be like Eidolons (which i stooped playing because of how Meta Specific that game mode is. More than SO/ESO). DE might delay Garuda for her Quest if they look at this Forum.

Edited October 25, 2018 by VPrime96

[Ramflare]

On Steve's Twitter he said they reworked her ultimate - don't think thats been mentioned and shows they are aware of these issues

[Sasuda]

Late to the post but w/e
For her 4th I'd like to see the floating blades OP suggested somewhat. To expand and alter somewhat though, the blades aren't just hovering around her they're flowing ^{(with \m/ blood \m/)} and retaining a certain amount of momentum in all her movements. Ex.Swings her Melee and a bunch of blades fly out with it, fires a shot and a some blades go hurtling off toward her foe. Bullet jump accelerates her so only a few blades in the front get pushed ahead ^{(see explanation at the bottom)} the rest follow in a trail behind her until they've caught up. Quickly stopping with a aim glide or roll will cause the blades to pass by retaining bullet jump momentum for a second or 2 before switching direction to catch up. Draws from her pool of floating blades, so gunplay and swordplay are used best together to maintain slaughter.

Think of it as sort of an inverse magnetic field like movement. They farther they are the quicker they move to catch up with Garuda, but they repel away from Garuda once they get within the 2^(ish) meter range. \m/

Edited October 25, 2018 by Sasuda

[GPrime96]

16 minutes ago, Droopsie said:

On Steve's Twitter he said they reworked her ultimate - don't think thats been mentioned and shows they are aware of these issues

I hope they don’t rework Garuda’s 4th like Khora’s 4th because that change didn’t work well for Khora.

[(PSN)KnowsNoLimits]

I would have liked to see her resemble a true blood mage. Instead of energy use, she could use her health instead.

Hearing her ultimate being reworked is a good sign for something more practical and fun to use will be replacing it instead.

[sleepychewbacca]

1 hour ago, Atsia said:

Huh.That's interesting. I guess that makes sense.

 

1 hour ago, VPrime96 said:

I guess DE is being Patient with her being in Fortuna and i would imagine the Spider boss fight is going to be like Eidolons (which i stooped playing because of how Meta Specific that game mode is. More than SO/ESO). DE might delay Garuda for her Quest if they look at this Forum.

In a way yeah. I'd rather there be an official announcement on this, so they can temper hype, and the unavoidable forum-meta-complaints, but, ehhh... DE has never been on top of hype management, but that is a known fact like their habit of delaying things, so... I'm not surprised. 

Plus, delays to fix stuff is always good in my books. I can just play something else in the meantime. 

[5H4DE]

Alongside this, I still feel her 2 should use the blood flowing out of the enemy to form a blood cage/bubble around the target and lift them up in the air so it can follow you around, being stationary is a death sentence in high level.

Edited October 25, 2018 by TheRealShade
Typo

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, TheRealShade said:

Alongside this, I still feel her 2 should use the blood flowing out of the enemy to form a blood cage/bubble around the target and lift them up in the air so it can follow you around, being stationary is a death sentence in high level.

That’s why you has shield, to protect you, and if you were surrounded that’s what the Ult was 4, but now 4 is dead. Garuda is now compromised and it’s all your faults.

[GPrime96]

After i saw the last Devstream again, i noticed Garuda have 950 health, and 630 Armor so i can see players try using Hunter Adrenaline and forget about her 3 because of the tanky Stats she got. Compare to Khora, Revenant, and Gara, Garuda could take plenty of hits but i don’t know if Steel Fiber and Vitality was inside of Garuda when they test her but if they didn’t put in Steel Fiber, she could be tankier than normal Valkyr. If they did, then she would be just as tanky or tankier than Saryn Prime.

Edited October 25, 2018 by VPrime96

[Bonette]

Thus far I'm not seeing the theme in Garuda other than 'blood'.  DE still seems to be working on her base kit so I'd like to throw my pennies into the mix.  This concept is designed around damage taken and %missing health.

Passive: Hunger

Once Garuda takes damage, she begins to build a counter for damage taken.  If she is not damaged for ten seconds, this counter will fall off.  The counter is not affected by healing that Garuda receives.  This Passive will be eaten by her third and fourth abilities to increase their strength.

This passive aligns a bit with her current design and theme.  But basically, with her current design of (%health missing = damage), it already tells us that we should skimp on shields and, depending on enemy level, armor, so that Garuda can take as much damage as possible.  With this passive, it changes her nature- she wants to take as much damage as possible to supercharge her 3rd and 4th abilities and can go about so in different ways- building heavy armor will still do damage, but building high HP and little armor will increase it moreso.  I still plan on having her abilities scale off of (%health missing) so as to invite risk vs reward into her kit and to allow her to be built low health high armor.

 

Ability 1: Feast (Energy Cost)

Garuda launches forward into an enemy with the spines on her arm, coating herself in blood.  She absorbs the lifeforce of the enemy, healing herself.

This will be the main ability of Garuda.  She dashes between enemies, spearing them on her spines and recovering health as other enemies keep gunning her down; a vampiric juggernaut who dances around the battlefield in flourishes of blood and gore.  I personally would have it do slashing damage to make Garuda more situational.

Scales:  Strength (Damage Multiplier), Range (Dash Range), Efficiency (Energy Cost), %Health Missing (Damage Up Multiplier - this can never be negative, and can never Damage Down)

 

Ability 2: Relinquish (Health Cost) (Long Animation Lock)

Garuda siphons energy from enemies around her by piercing them with her own blood.  As it pulls back in, it absorbs a part of their very being.  The enemies effected are stunned for the duration of this ability.

The idea behind this ability is to balance it with Feast.  Garuda jumps between singular enemies, pooling together health while her passive racks higher and higher.  She activates Relinquish and inflicts damage upon herself that cannot reach 100% of current HP.  She cannot activate this ability without the health necessary.  Relinquish can put Garuda extremely low should the Tenno choose to build her that way, but it will not kill her.  She is ready to use her next abilities.  For this ability, the efficiency increases the %health cost and the energy received.  This means that a higher-efficiency Garuda does more self-damage for more energy, increasing her passive at the push of a button.  

The animation lock is built to make the Tenno position correctly and gauge the damage they will receive while absorbing energy.

The alternative to this is to have Strength give more Energy and Efficiency lower the cost, but I think that's boring and also puts too much weight on Strength for my tastes.  

Scales:  Range (Distance Affected), Efficiency (Health Cost, Energy Gained),
Alternate Scales: Strength (Energy Gained Up), Range (Distance Affected), Efficiency (Health Cost Down)

 

 Ability 3: Bloodlust (Energy Cost, Short Animation Lock)

Garuda lets go the hunger she has suffered.  She eats her passive and her abilities sharpen.  

This ability is the first that benefits from the passive.  It eats the passive and takes a percentage of its total value as a %damage buff.  However, her %missing hp also increases the scaling.  This lasts for X amount of seconds, scaling off of duration.  I'd probably put it at 10 seconds at unlock, similar to Vex Armor from Chroma.  This is, however, a single target buff.  It does not effect allies.  The short animation lock is just an animation showing a change in effect- perhaps this is when she's surrounded by floating blood.  

Scales:  Strength (Damage Multiplier) , Duration, Efficiency (Energy Cost), %Missing HP (Damage Increase Multiplier)

 

Ability 4: Vengeance (Energy Cost, Long Animation Lock)

Garuda eats her passive, pulls her spines up, and launches them in a circular AoE.  Enemies punctures and killed by the spines are impaled to the surfaces behind them, while enemies that are not killed have a high chance for bleeding debuff.  The lower her health and the higher her damage taken, the more damage she does.

This ability is designed to mesh well with her Feast and Relinquish abilities.  Rush in and out of combat, find yourself in the center of it, and let the body parts fly.  Vengeance is meant to be a finishing move- a strategic Garuda will enhance her damage through enemy damage and self damage.  She will then reposition and rain hell down upon the enemies.  Another challenge is to use Bloodlust and, in the space of bloodlust, attempt to stack up enough extra damage to use Vengeance with a large passive stack AND the buff from Bloodlust.  The long animation lock is designed to once again promote proper positioning.

Scales: Strength (Damage Multiplier), Efficiency (Energy Cost), %Missing HP (Damage Increase Multiplier)

--------------------------------------

 

That's pretty much it for this concept.  This is all in a vaccuum, but the design is meant to encourage multiple builds- some that I might try are high HP power+ range+ builds with no shields to encourage health being chunked away for her passive.  Or high armor, high shield, efficiency+ range+ builds to encourage the %missinghealth damage multiplier- playing is safe, so to speak, and capitalizing off of her %health abilities.

It also seems like fun to dash between enemies, skewering them and increasing your own health!  Tell me what you think about the concept- I'm not sold on the idea (haven't even played her yet after all), but the community seemed super unhappy with the Devstream so I thought I'd throw in my ideas on a thematic and interesting design that incorporated Garuda's visuals.  

 

((Edited formatting a bit.))

Edited October 25, 2018 by Bonette
((Edited formatting a bit.))

[(XBOX)gottheknife]

Dear DE,

   Can you PLEASE give Garuda an EXALTED weapon for her new ultimate? It's been forever since the last new exalted weapon warframe (umbra doesn't count, it's still Excal), correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure it was Ivara. And I mean come on, she's got those GIANT CLAWS?!?! They're perfect for an ultimate weapon. I picture her doing a really elegant dance while slicing grineer into chum. Like the opposite to the chaos of valkyr's hysteria. 

   I've been really good this year and I REALLY deserve this for Christmas, not to mention look at those big ass claws, it's a real shame to give us those then not allow us to take full advantage of them. As it stands now she only has one ability that uses them which just doesn't seem sensible to me.

Thanks DESanta,

-B

 

[Luthier_Marke]

A lot of the overall playerbase, myself included, think that Garuda is too close to Valkyr as it is now. I think there is a more fundamental problem, not only with Garuda, but also the the last 2 warframes: their abilities favor a much more relaxed playstyle than the average. I believe that the best warframes in the game have their own gameplay flow, their own "finger gymnastics" if you will :p. Please bear in mind that I'm making all these suggestions based more on the ease of implementation and gameplay flow than anything else...

Garuda

• Passive: Damage increase as Health drops. Stacks up to 250% (at rank 30, with 1 Health left). This will be in place as long as Garuda is not healed, else, drops by time.
• Concept: Garuda uses the quarrels in her hands as projectiles to cast her abilities. She has a total of 8 shots.

 

• Eleison: Shoots 2 quarrels, with inherent punch-through. If an enemy is killed by it, a small light crown apears above Garuda's head. As the player kills with the crown present, the more it grows, giving Status Chance and Status Duration reduction (maximum possible of 60% for both).
  • The player can decide to launch the crown, turning it into an orb, by holding the ability button. The orb will explode on contact, but the damage it produces is based on how long was it active (I suggest a soft damage cap of 50k to 99k, since this ability escales with power strenght and range)
  • If the projectiles hit a wall, they can be used as platform.
    • dev benefit: its a simple projectile. it can be copypasted code from the Boltor. it also allows for easy showcase of the new hangable surfaces mentioned some devstreams ago
• Hemorrage: Shoots 1 quarrel which impales the target, making it bleed. Garuda will be healed whenever she enters in range these spikes.
  • If two or more spikes overlap, the healing now affects other squad members.
  • If 6 or more spikes are in places, it gives a small speed boost to all squad members. (maximum possible duration of 20 seconds).
  • This ability escales with duation mods and each spike has its own timer (similar to Volt's shields)
    • dev benefit: more or less the same as it is right now. different encapsulation in the code.
• Blood Bath: Garuda recalls all the quarrels she has used, hurting herself in the process (about 12% the max health is reduced per quarrel) and granting her equivalent energy (in percentages of her max energy).
  • Uppon activation, this ability will dispell all the instances of Hemorrage in the entire map.
  • If the Eleison crown is active when this ability is casted, it will produce a radial shockwave of light that blinds enemies in range. The crown will be lost.
  • At max rank this ability can be casted when all 8 quarrels are in Garuda's body, but it will leave her with only 4% of her max health and 96% of her max energy.
  • This ability does not escales with power strenght, only with efficiency.
    • dev benefit: I imagine the blade-claws are already rigged for the current indev 1 ability, so it would take little effort to set the rigging for them to come back.
• Exalted Glaive: Garuda summons her exalted glaive, replacing her equipped melee/primary weapon but allowing the use of her secondary. each time the glaive returns to her hand, she receives overshields but is harmed. The alt-fire of the glaive is an implosion that groups enemies together.
  • The damage produced by the comeback escales with the combo meter.
  • If the alt-fire crits, the enemies affected by it have a chance (25% at 100% crit chance, increasing 5% for every 50% thereafter) of being affected with Slash damage.
  • The overshield will increase more if the Eleison crown is active as well as the crown effects rise with the glaive combo counter.
    • dev benefit: lets be honest. there are only so many ways to throw a disk. nobody will complain nor notice if you mix some glaive stances moves. maybe mix the dominant hand with the iddle of throwable secundaries?

I think there will be people saying that exalted weapons are a delicated thing, but if we look at the current ones, they have all been the focus of the marketing efforts at some moment (say what you want but Ivara is one of the easiest warframes to recognize) and Fortuna's release is no joke for said marketing. Garuda has to rock the newcomers! not bore them!

[SilverRook]

18 hours ago, (XB1)WafflyLearner89 said:

I guess but it would be she instantly travels to target and THEN performs a finisher with her claws. Would look more elegant than the gif though. (No offense)

yeh none taken ;)  was the first picture of berserker barrage x i could find lol