Garuda Feedback and Discussion

[DerGreif2]

Her passive is not a thing to build around... or do you build around passives on other warframe? Look at some of them! A lot of passives are pretty useless and have rarely an impact. Garuda at least does something at some point.

[420-chan]

Lol just use Quick Thinking and then stack some shields??

[Lior55]

So self mutilation is nice and all but cutting your health in half for a small damage buff from a half baked passive and some energy is bogus. There are some people who perform self harm to feel alive or a rush. She should grow in her intensity from cutting her health in half. Give us a real benefit for potentially downing ourselves quickly.

On top of cutting her health and giving herself energy, I think her 3 should trigger a blood trance that increases movement speed/attack speed, allows you to see enemy auras, and a flat damage buff (give her a new passive🙄 staying at low health is impractical and losing the damage buff's potency because we're healing is stupid) for a duration.

[(PSN)psycofang]

Out of all of her skills, i feel her 3 is the most impractical considering how free and easy energy is to get. Though if her 1 is still a single directional shield i feel.her 3 should help compliment low hp survivability.

Or maybe the real point of her 3 is to get her to low hp as quickly as possible to spam her 1 which i *think* i saw gave invincibility?

[Chewarette]

13 minutes ago, Lior55 said:

cutting your health in half for a small damage buff from a half baked passive

Have you seen the numbers ?

[Lior55]

Just now, Chewarette said:

Have you seen the numbers ?

You get a damage buff based off of the percentage of how much health she's missing, so to optimize this "passive" you need to fight at low health. You see the percentage whenever her health is lowered in the top right near her health bar. Her health is cut by 50% to give herself a 50% buff that fades quickly from the healing of the Spire ability.

 

[Chewarette]

20 minutes ago, Lior55 said:

You get a damage buff based off of the percentage of how much health she's missing, so to optimize this "passive" you need to fight at low health. You see the percentage whenever her health is lowered in the top right near her health bar. Her health is cut by 50% to give herself a 50% buff that fades quickly from the healing of the Spire ability.

Cool, so this video is 100% what we will get ingame, so that's nice indeed, as it seems that all her spells are energy-free.

Plus, +50% damage for half HP is not exactly "a small damage buff". It is insane actually. It may even be affected by Power Strength, which would be, actually, the best passive in the world.

The only sure thing is, we don't anything about numbers until it is released and hotfixed/tuned (because it will be).

[Lior55]

2 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

Cool, so this video is 100% what we will get ingame, so that's nice indeed, as it seems that all her spells are energy-free.

Plus, +50% damage for half HP is not exactly "a small damage buff". It is insane actually. It may even be affected by Power Strength, which would be, actually, the best passive in the world.

The only sure thing is, we don't anything about numbers until it is released and hotfixed/tuned (because it will be).

Cool. 👍 Glad you're excited for what's suppose to be coming later today. Passives have never been affected by power strength but okay. Rhino, Chroma, Octavia, and Banshee give "insane" buffs. 50% is nothing special especially for losing our health. I get that have a wait and see mentality, but if you have nothing to offer in terms of ideas or feedback on the idea mentioned then we're done.

[Lior55]

Now to go off of what Chewarette stated regarding the passive, wouldn't it be interesting if her passive's damage buff was affected by Vitality as it won't be affected by power strength. So the higher your health is, the higher the damage buff will naturally be when you cut your health in half.

[GinKenshin]

Building an ability set based on the passive is never a good idea. Just look at chroma and his ‘passive’ which nobody uses and only stick to one or two element. 

 

I dont think more dmg is enough justification for lower survivability. Personally if what we saw stays, then I’d only use it to gain some energy in the start of the mission, then heal with her 2 and have enough energy for whatever 

 

  It’s pretty clear they intend for her to be a very micro frame in order to do optimal performance, but the normal performance is already decent, and frames hardly need any dmg buff, let alone a self one which is inconsistent one too 

[Lior55]

16 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

Building an ability set based on the passive is never a good idea. Just look at chroma and his ‘passive’ which nobody uses and only stick to one or two element. 

 

I dont think more dmg is enough justification for lower survivability. Personally if what we saw stays, then I’d only use it to gain some energy in the start of the mission, then heal with her 2 and have enough energy for whatever 

 

  It’s pretty clear they intend for her to be a very micro frame in order to do optimal performance, but the normal performance is already decent, and frames hardly need any dmg buff, let alone a self one which is inconsistent one too 

Exactly. A passive like the Mutation stacks with Nidus is an example of a good passive working well with the abilities. It just seems like her least thought out ability. I'm hoping the changes that come to her post launch really make her kit meatier. They stated that her passive came from the idea that a frame is benefited from the fight getting more intense, but this isn't the answer thus far. Losing the buff when healing is too counter productive.

[Birdframe_Prime]

Skipping the hyperbolic arguments and looking at the original post's issues there are two things;

First, yes, self harm exists. However it is a historical fact that people claiming to be blood mages existed and practiced ritual blood letting all the way through to the modern day, and basing an ability off that is exactly the kind of thing, lore-wise, that the creator of the Warframes would have done, and exactly what the real life creators of Warframes would do.

The second is the function, and I'm actually looking forward to seeing the real stats on this ability because a 50% boost in all damage isn't actually all that bad, especially when it's actually giving you energy instead of costing you energy. This could mean that an energy-hungry frame like Garuda, might not need to exploit some of the more cheesy methods of energy regeneration. Running Zenurik may not be necessary, energy plates may not be necessary. We've seen how frames like Nidus and Nezha have performed so well with energy return on their abilities, often able to self-sustain on those entirely, so having another frame that can do something similar will be very interesting.

Considering how strong her single-point CC, damage mitigation, health recovery and potential damage could be... I think this will actually balance out quite nicely.

[ShortCat]

2 hours ago, Lior55 said:

On top of cutting her health and giving herself energy, I think her 3 should trigger a blood trance that increases movement speed/attack speed, allows you to see enemy auras, and a flat damage buff (give her a new passive🙄 staying at low health is impractical and losing the damage buff's potency because we're healing is stupid) for a duration.

I actually think this is rather intriguing design. Depending on her other stats she could be a native QT user. As her 3 seems to generate energy according to percentage of healt donated, you could skip Vitality and Rage entirely. This setup would free some slots, usually necessary for a QT build. In case of a generous energy pool, QT + P.Flow could cover all her defenses and energy management. High HP pool is not required, since energy is generated not via Rage but her #3. Healing can be achieved with #2 or double Magus Elevate. Use Pain Threshold in her Exilus and I do not see why you could not run with perpetual 2 HP, full energy pool and 98% damage buff from her passive.

Edited November 8, 2018 by ShortCat

[UrielColtan]

20 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

It’s called subverting expectations. Instead of doing the obvious (making all he abilities revolve around he attacking with claws) they used them in different ways.

1. Rip an enemy apart for addition mechanics

2. Fire off one claw to impale an enemy into the ground

3. Rend her own flesh with them.

4. LITERAL BLADE STORM.

Subverting expectations has kinda garnered a sour reputation, especially after things such as THAT movie that came out, which I won't name or get into because that will start a sad conversation, but to be frank, doing this is not an inherently good thing or something beyond reproach. Especially if what is being offered in place of the expected, doesn't look amazing or very good.

I don't think there is value in trivializing a theme simply to "Shamalan" people or something. Naming her after an avian deity and giving her talons, yet having none of her abilities revolve around being agile in any way nor having her actually use her talons as such in any consecutive manner, does not really inspire much in the people(To borrow a bit from Ballas), much less excitement.

1.Instead of doing things like combining the talon and shield into one move, they could have combined the shield and the 2 into their own move maybe, or even combined the Hela flying blades suggestion from a few posters/content creators (Only without the slow walking that people were suggesting), with the shield feature..

2.Following from above, it could be floating blood blades that are holding the shield together, that you could throw out one by one, and regenerating with combined use of the Blood Altar ability, until the shield say, runs its limit. The blood altars could be summoned by dashing your talon toward the ground, or maybe from launching your blood blades toward the ground, which would then send a blood trail/Tremor(Like the movie, yes) to a nearby enemy and summon a blood altar under them.

Perhaps also make Blood altars themselves a little more amusing/mobile.

 

https://imgur.com/jaXVkgx

 

3.They could have combined any other actual ability with this 3rd ability, since there is no actual activity going on here honestly.

4.Her "Blade Storm" was slow, not very interactive, and a little unpleasant to the eyes, I am glad they decided to change it at least.

 

14 hours ago, WarBaby2 said:

Okaaay, she apparently IS using her talons now... I think I'm in love.

 

 

Was wanting her to be a bit more agile, but this at least makes her talons more interactive. Looks like DE used the already existing claw weapon animations for her now optionally equippable talons, but its a decent enough placeholder I guess, until they ever find time to give Garuda her own animations, like they eventually did with Valkyr, who if I remember correctly, used to just have the basic sparring weapon moveset, basic jumping animations, and used to be quite a bit slower.  Garuda's new ultimate is a bit obfuscated in that video, so I think I am going to end up having to use it myself to see if it is good or not, if the update is dropping soon.

Garuda is slowly but steadily looking more like a space ninja now at least.

Just now noticing that Garuda has Gatchaman colors too.

 

 

 

Not sure if that was intentional or not on the part of the devs, but it is very fitting for a space ninja, and an avian themed one at that. 

Edited November 8, 2018 by UrielColtan

[Jarriaga]

8 hours ago, (XB1)WafflyLearner89 said:

@[DE]Steve

@[DE]Grineeer

So I just saw that Garuda now has exclusive melee talons when she has nothing equipped. I really like that idea and look forward to trying it out. I do have two criticisms about the weapon.

1. Her talons re-use certain animations from the claw weapons. While it does make sense why that would be, I would like it if Garuda could get some exclusive animations for her talons that separates it from the claw weapons before Fortuna drops on console. After all, if the weapon is exclusive to her, then i think she should have unique animations that separate it from claw weapons (otherwise, what would be the point of using the talons rather than Venka Prime claws?).

2. During or a little after the release of Melee 3.0, I would love it if the Devs could give Garuda a unique stance for her talons that fits her theme and personality while being exclusive to Garuda's talons only (much like Excalibur's exalted blade stance that can only be used by him or Valkyr's exalted talon stance). Would be willing to wait for melee 3.0 to come out before Garuda's talons get there own exclusive stance. 

 

Other than that, I am excited for Garuda and look forward to playing her on console.

This!

[Circle_of_Psi]

So, here is my take on Garuda and her kit and with Fortuna right around the corner and having a 20-sec video and dev stream of how Garuda will perform, I want to share some slight requests.

Passive: Bloodlust
⦁    Garuda has no Shields
⦁    When no weapon is selected in the Arsenal loadout, Garuda has access to her talons as an exclusive modable melee weapon that can be equipped during missions. With each weapon removed adds a % bonus to her claw and herself. 
⦁    +20% Damage/Range and Status Chance to her claws with no Primary Weapon. +50% Health with no equipped melee equipped & +45% Armor without sidearms.
⦁    The less Health that Garuda has, the more damage she inflicts and gains extra armour.
⦁    Damage & Armor bonus is proportionate to the missing percentage of Garuda's maximum health.
⦁    Damage bonus increases or decreases over time following any changes to Garuda's health.
⦁    Damage bonus is displayed as a buff icon using Garuda's iconic symbol, shown beside the shield and health bars.

1. Dread Mirror:  Rip the life force from an enemy and use it as a shield that captures damage. Charge to channel the captured damage into an explosive projectile.
⦁    No Longer a frontal shield, a protective gore of meat and blood coats her and gives her 95% Damage reduction (at max)
⦁    Blood Ball marks her foes and reduces their damage output and strips armour/shields.
⦁    Foes that are too close get damaged over time. 

2. Blood Altar:  Impale an enemy on an altar of talons and syphon health for Garuda and her allies.
⦁    No longer stays in one spot, Garuda's foes now get impaled onto her claws and shoulders, making it a moveable Altar.
⦁    Note: When moving it, your movement speed is reduced, but once placed down your movement is back to normal.

3. Bloodletting: No Change.

4. Seeking Talons: No Change
 

[BrazilianJoe]

COSMETIC

Every now an then, there should be an animation of the giant bone claws moving like fingers, as gestures of plotting/scheming hands. 

It should not be constant nor fast, it's just to add flavor. 

Some references (too fast, Garuda animations should be more contrived, meditative, slower, with a psycopathic patience and determination): 

 

Edited November 8, 2018 by BrazilianJoe

[(PSN)Silverback73]

Examined the stance on her Fourth.

My input is simple.

The original is impressive but limiting/nauseating.

The new one is possibly rhythm breaking.

MY SUGGESTION: 

As a “Gore with Grace” Bird Frame have her jump above the Fray, trace a path on the battlefield below, and throw her talons, turning them twin Glaives of death that follow said path with infinite punch on Enemies.

Garuda can choose to jump into the path to get the self-Damage buff or avoid it and use other weapons.

At any point in flight she can press “4” to recall them without cost to maintain combat flow and use them strategically.

Ill post a quick concept/storyboard if interest is there.

 

 

[WarBaby2]

19 minutes ago, BrazilianJoe said:

COSMETIC

Every now an then, there should be an animation of the giant bone claws moving like fingers, as gestures of plotting/scheming hands. 

It should not be constant nor fast, it's just to add flavor. 

Some references (too fast, Garuda animations should be more contrived, meditative, slower, with a psycopathic patience and determination): 

True... also: Head cocking. There should be quick, avian head cocking.

[(PSN)TEKKENGOD420]

It could be like chroma and require a certain amount of health to reach max potential meaning running vitality on her may allow us to have our buff and a decent amount of health left over also. But we won’t know until she’s released.

[UrielColtan]

 

1 hour ago, BrazilianJoe said:

(too fast, Garuda animations should be more contrived, meditative, slower, with a psycopathic patience and determination): 

 

Slow space ninja...Why? Would prefer she not be Jason plz, outside of his nigh comedic teleports perhaps.

Edited November 8, 2018 by UrielColtan

[SneakyErvin]

Too bad other games have made great work with low health mechanics and DE miss the mark completely.

For instance, Ghost Rider in Marvel Heroes had this mechanic with his Infernal Contract option. It effectivly drained his HP to 50% and during the buff he could not go above those 50%. He did however get massive amounts of extra life sustain and defense options giving him great EHP while still using the skill. He could still get one shot by massive graphed 1HK attacks but it was a great gameplay mechanic that was fun to use. Great risk vs reward.

Garuda really just has risk involved and will quickly lose the damage buff due to group heals and her own. The question is also if the damage buff is total damage or not. It will just be another passive we forget exists.

[Aeon94]

8 hours ago, Xylyssa said:

Still, the blender is miles more satisfying than having Nyx's Psychic bolts + a highly reduced Equinox Maim + the terribly game-flow breaking charge mechanic.

At least with the blender we got:

-Spinning blades on all axis that pull enemies in

-Black shadowy Garuda floating menacingly around like a vengeful spirit

-Blood, gore, and general viscera covering the screen

That was way more interesting, and way more friendly with the speedy game flow of this game considering you could jump into a group of enemies and pop it after using any of Garuda's other close-ranged abilities. It had better game flow, better visuals, and rewarded you with an abundance of gore, which after all is the theme she was given.

Gibs and body parts flailing around the screen is no issue when abilities like Inaros' Sandstorm, Revenant's Dance Macabre, Vauban's Vortex, Hydroid's Tentacle Swarm, and Zephyr's Tornados already fill the screen with ragdolls, VFX, and dead bodies. The difference between them and Garuda is her ability was designed to look and feel amazing, and demonstrate how elegantly viscous she truly is in contrast to similar frames like the wild and feral Valkyr whom has the elegance of a wet angry cat.

I still urge them to change it back because her ultimate looks like boring garbage right now, and honestly DE should have more pride in the original iteration instead of giving us the current lackluster ability she has now in place of it, that being a garbage tier mash of abilities with literally zero interesting or gory visuals. Plus with the inclusion of an effects slider in the options now there is no reason people couldn't adjust it or turn it off if they had a problem with it instead of marching here on the forums demanding change in droves to something most were already really liking.

Also, the fact that it is similar to other abilities matters not, as many frames we have currently share abilities that basically do the same thing, with different visuals. Take Hydroid and Ember for example.

Tentacle Swarm locks enemies in a small radius with a stun, and deals chip damage.

World On Fire locks enemies in a small radius with a stun, and deals chip damage.

Their only differences being one is with watery tentacles, and the other is with fire that spawns endlessly across the universe.

 

Now that I think about it, Garuda's current "new" 4th ability is a toddler's variant of Ash's old Bladestorm: Bleed damage in a small radius that you cast from afar. Except Garuda's doesn't cheaply and effortlessly kill everything effected like brainless ol'd Ash. It just pokes enemies with a few knives and causes a slash proc.

Sure sounds both fun, effective, and enjoyable. Oh and gory. did I mention gory? I saw a total hurricane of gore* in the clip they showed demonstrating the ability.

 

The asterisk ( * ) notes the sarcasm, for those who don't know.

 

Oh, lets not forget that the ability has already been pre-nerfed, requiring the built in mechanic of slowly charging in order to be fully effective. Too bad abilities that require a charge take their sweet time and completely break the speedy flow of Warframe's combat gameplay.

Not to mention, maybe the short range was to promote close-range gameplay?

 

GG Digital Extremes.*

It depends on perspective , you might find it satisfying or interesting but a big part of community considers channel ults like Garuda's old 4th uninteractive , lazy and boring. Doesn't matter how cool it looks , it locks you into a floating animation and prevents you from using other abilities.

From Twitch to forums and reddit , people shown they disliked the blender ability and it got changed due backlash. Don't think " most were already liking " true. Well some people did like it , including you but that doesn't change the fact DE listened all the feedback and did what had to be done.

Charge time might get reduced or removed completely after the release if its irritating enough to break the flow of gameplay. We will give our feedback about it when she is released.

A short range gameplay would be ideal if the shield wasn't just frontal. She also damages herself to gain energy which puts her in risk with the requirement of her 1st ( getting close to enemies ) to gain shield. On top of these , a short ranged blender to dive into the mobs is like a suicide if you take damage from all directions ( she has no way of blocking all damage taken like Revenant ).

Also ;

8 hours ago, Xylyssa said:

Do you people even use your brains or does everything have to kill something hundreds of yards away for you to be happy with it?

Insulting other people for showing their expression and opinions ? Such a good way to discuss things.

[(XBOX)Kaldwin1571]

Please DE let Garuda use her claws without needing to have no melee weapons equipped. 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, (XB1)TRL kaldwin said:

Please DE let Garuda use her claws without needing to have no melee weapons equipped. 

Sarcastic or did you not read the available news on the other threads? Garuda is getting this.