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Thanks For Watching Devstream #118!

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6 hours ago, LupisV0lk said:

You know what, It wasn't yes men who stopped a major IPS balance pass. It was the status quo warriors and their manchildren ilk that stomped their little feet in order to protect their precious slash status.

This community has shown time and time again that there are times when DE needs to grow a spine and tell the community where it can shove it's so called feedback.

It ain't the yes men that are doing harm to the game, it's the status quo warriors who have an aversion to change.

I agree that status quo warriors are a huge problem, but in this case they happened to be sorta right.

The "major IPS balance pass" was very obviously going to be a flop. It had 2 goals: stop Slash damage from dominating the other physical types in terms of effectiveness, and make Impact/Puncture overall more powerful.

The proposed changes (adding scaling ragdoll to Impact damage and buffing Puncture damage reduction) showed a complete lack of understanding about the core issues of the imbalance. As many were quick to point out, non-lethal ragdolls actually inhibit player damage potential by moving targets erratically and making headshots more difficult. While the CC is arguably useful, in Warframe's horde-like environment single-target CC is pretty weak. The Impact reasoning directly carries over into their proposed puncture buff. What is better? An enemy dealing 80% reduced damage or an enemy dealing 100% reduced damage because they're DEAD? Even if Puncture gave a brief duration of 100% damage debuff, once again single-target CC is pretty weak.

DE left Slash largely untouched, which doomed their rebalance right out of the gate. Slash is absurdly powerful; it's effective against health and bypasses nearly every defensive property in the game. Shields? Slash procs through them. Armor? Slash procs deal Finisher damage and ignore its bonuses. The only thing that effectively stops Slash short is flat damage reduction (like on Noxes and Sentients), but those penalize Impact/Puncture equally and in the case of Sentients is easily reset. Slash damage is universally effective, when its bonuses (and simple logic) suggest that it should be less effective against Shields and Armor.

To put it simply, I'm all for changing the game and adding polish/balance. However, I think blindly accepting proposed changes without looking at the implications of those changes is just as dangerous as refusing to consider change in the first place.

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Garuda needs some work. First, these two abilities need to change at a minimum:
- Claw Dash: I like the idea, but this ability should be spammable. Make the animation faster. The idea here is that a skilled user can dance around the battlefield slicing and dicing. Scrap the shield health stuff. A kill will trigger health regeneration and a stack of overcharge buff. The more you use the ability in a row, the more "overcharged" you become. Being overcharged increases the ability damage, your damage - but also increases the cost. The ability costs health and can kill you. Overcharge stacks decay when out of combat.

- Exalted talons: Come on now, she needs to have exalted giant claws. The stance should be much more elegant than valk's though. It should follow the sweeping motion her 1 would give. Deadly but pretty. You consume 30% of current health up front, and cost energy/s. Blood flows from the enemies damaged and they have a high chance of dropping health orbs on death. Any status effects you may encounter while in this mode are instead transferred into your talons. The next attack will apply those status effects to your target. In addition, a certain percentage (based on power strength and exalted stack count) of damage taken is absorbed and unleashed on the next attack. The amount of damage absorbed is calculated before armor. Now - If you want to stay within the theme of how valkyr's 4 is balanced, if the exalted talons are turned off, any built up damage or status effects are applied to the player (undecided if that would only be if there is an enemy close by, or if this would always occur, even if alone).

And here is how I would change the other two abilities:
- Blood Tree: You plant a blood tree seed in target enemy. This pacifies the unit and will not fight or take damage, but follows you around. You slowly siphon health off of the enemy. If another enemy is killed, the blood tree grows a bit and gives a burst of healing to the player and you have a chance to gain an overcharge stack. At the same time, this also does a percent of the targets health. If the target dies while the seed is planted, the tree will root itself into the ground and blossom, growing around and consuming its prey. It creates a healing aura that heals any ally. This fully grown tree last a few seconds before withering and going away. You are able to recast the ability on a new target when the tree blossoms. You can also cancel the process by recasting early. Costs Energy.

- Health Sacrifice: As it stands, this ability will only get you killed. The animation is WAY to long - and it really is not that useful. This ability should cost energy. When cast, you consume all of the "overcharge" stacks you currently have and it is turned into a buff that slowly decays (AKA this is not a duration ability, you can recast to refresh the buff whenever you want - but the decay rate is affected by duration mods). The more stacks consumed, the higher the buff stats. The buff does a few things: You gain armor, your attack range is increased, both guns and melee weapons return health, and finally your senses are heightened - reload, weapon swapping and attack speed and knockdown recovery are all increased. This seems like a lot, but with low to no stacks of the overcharge, the buff will be too weak to be useful. It requires work to get a good buff. An indicator on the buff tells you how many stacks were consumed. If the ability is recast with no buffs, the decay will be reset, but the strength of the buff will be lowered to match that of no overcharge stacks.

----

Keep her passive the same, it would do interesting stuff with this kit. The "overcharge" name is purely placeholder.

I themed the idea based on what DE showed us, but I am really trying to emphasize the "inverse of valk" concept. She is all about the art of death and using it to her advantage.

Thoughts?

Edited by RacerDelux
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I don't see why it would seem desirable in any way to have drones, which is to automate one's offense, or to have anything stationary - the automated and the stationary is precisely incompatible with intense fast paced action. I'm not saying no frame should do this, but should Garuda? What it all boils down to is the impressions we got about Garuda and the disappointment that she somehow became a "blood mage" and in fact that's something of the sort of ALL we've been getting for a while now. First, we don't need 1 of them, second we certainly don't need 3 of them... I'm thinking of Revenant and Harrow, frames with really peculiar abilities which were supposedly complex enough to warrant serious power, who, once everyone figured them out were subsequently nerfed because they were too powerful. To be clear, no amount of % based buff is going to make up for either walking around with no health, or spending half a minute every other minute $&*^ing around with abilities. Everyone's at extraction btw, mission's done, you comin? Oh, moar blood... I see. This criticism isn't a one off either, I'm looking at a disappointing trend against a stated philosophy of fast direct intense action and shiny colors and drama and so on. Anyway , granting Umbra and the primes it's been a while since we saw anything in this vein, 2015 with Nezha, arguably Inaros in 2016, but since then Titania, Nidus, Octavia, Harrow, Gara, Khora, Revenant, stack up all of their abilities and together like 80% of them are peculiar, complicated and slow. I don't begrudge anyone who wants this, but put those against frames like Nova or Loki or Rhino or Trinity. It's the difference between useful synergies with weapons and squads, and the poor dramatic effect of doing automated and static or movement-slowing things. It's as though they were built to replace their weapon kit but their actual casting abilities don't achieve that with respect to how hard we can fight using melee alone and how in the day to day missions there isn't really anything that should slow you down - no, the only reason to slow down is because you want to use an ability you don't really need in the first place, it's at the very least a peculiar direction.

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7 minutes ago, Suska said:

I don't see why it would seem desirable in any way to have drones...

I typed up many variations of this ability, which I think is needed in some way or form, but none of them really fit. Notice I did not mention a range for the received health tether and healing. While the drone will try to stay close, if it does fall behind, you still receive healing. The function of what I suggested requires no messing around with abilities. You cast the ability and start killing. Kill enough in the duration of the ability, the previously selected enemy dies and causes the tree to root. Very simple, very concise, straight forward. Its upkeep is no worse and no better than that of a trinity's EV.

Edited by RacerDelux

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5 hours ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

Ever heard of the word "know?"

4 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

No, but I have heard of the expression "Takes one to know one"

Well played. Now to the real meat:

5 hours ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

Making points to support my perspective is called making an argument. I'm sorry if that offends your sensibilities, but that's part of feedback.

4 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

a statement that is more often than not completely incorrect because it's little more than a knee-jerk assumption.

No you really didn't and no it really wasn't. Diabolus, I'm sorry to say but you really do come off like the stereotype I described yesterday. "What power?! Vacuum isn't powerful at all! No need to test it because I already know I'm right with no evidence! Energy pizzas exist therefore Vacuum should be free and universal!"

But since I would like to apologize for being tactless myself, let me offer an anecdote of my own, since none of us here are actual DE testers and anecdotes are all we have, and I'd like us to wrap this up on agree-to-disagree terms rather than animosity:

I spend the vast majority of my time with Vacuum off, and when I do turn it on I gotta say... it really does just promote mindless Ember/Equinox press-4-then-click-nothing playstyles. In the lack of DE saying anything on the matter (they could just be rigidly holding onto a design doc and are too sentimental to go against it) my conclusion is that the devs feel you need to earn the right to do that, not have it for free, however small that hurdle might actually be. Why do they force you to earn power, no matter how tiny? Well, that's kind of the entire point of the progression system, and again, I conclude they feel Vacuum is not an exception

Edited by TARINunit9

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I'm VERY sad to see that Garuda's claws are just a cosmetic item that merely interferes with aiming.  I was somehow expecting to see them show up in her abilities FAR more than they do.  ONE ability where she slaps something with them?  NO "giant claw" weapon, or exalted weapon?  NOTHING?

It just feels like a waste of the concept to me, that's all.  Very much "Gore Lite", with half the blood and a quarter the satisfaction...

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7 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Diabolus, I'm sorry to say but you really do come off like the stereotype I described yesterday. "What power?! Vacuum isn't powerful at all! No need to test it because I already know I'm right with no evidence! Energy pizzas exist therefore Vacuum should be free and universal!"

Do you actually think this ad hominem is contributing anything to what you're trying to say?

7 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

But since I would like to apologize for being tactless myself, let me offer an anecdote of my own, since none of us here are actual DE testers and anecdotes are all we have, and I'd like us to wrap this up on agree-to-disagree terms rather than animosity:

I'm all for agreeing to disagree, but it's hard to take an apology at face value when you continue the behavior in the exact same post.

7 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

I spend the vast majority of my time with Vacuum off, and when I do turn it on I gotta say... it really does just promote mindless Ember/Equinox press-4-then-click-nothing playstyles.

Are you suggesting that if DE removed Vacuum press-4-to-win would resolve itself? It's true that lazier players tend to gravitate to lazier playstyles, and convenience enables laziness... but how is Vacuum costing a mod slot stopping that behavior? If someone is running a Maim Equinox, do you think they will suddenly stop the minute their Carrier dies? Why are we blaming Vacuum for what are ultimately problems with player energy economy and power range? Sorry, but that doesn't make any sense at all.

If you want to fix a problem, fix the actual problem instead of some other tangentially-related aspect of the gameplay.

7 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

In the lack of DE saying anything on the matter (they could just be rigidly holding onto a design doc and are too sentimental to go against it) my conclusion is that the devs feel you need to earn the right to do that, not have it for free, however small that hurdle might actually be. Why do they force you to earn power, no matter how tiny? Well, that's kind of the entire point of the progression system, and again, I conclude they feel Vacuum is not an exception

Again, I don't understand why you're discussing this like DE's stance on the matter is somehow a mystery. They've very clearly rejected the idea of a free universal Vacuum in the past, and until they say something else about it it should be safe to assume that same rejection stands.

I am not in the dark about why DE made that decision, I am criticizing the reasoning that went into that decision. If keeping Vacuum as a progression item is really that critically important, why can't it simply be moved?

For example, crafting an upgrade segment or applying something similar to an Exilus Adapter? Why must Vacuum be something players choose to equip, when the statistics have already shown that the vast majority of players will always choose to equip it? How would the game balance change negatively if players weren't forced to make that choice? How would the game experience improve?

Saying Vacuum is part of the game progression is like saying progression is a game mechanic. Strictly speaking you're correct, but that doesn't justify why it mustn't be modified. The question is not "why should players have to earn Vacuum," the question is "why can't Vacuum be applied to the Warframe, and why does it have to cost a mod slot?"

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6 hours ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

I'm all for agreeing to disagree, but it's hard to take an apology at face value when you continue the behavior in the exact same post.

I was actually including myself in that last put-down, not targeting you. But yeah, let's get me to stop with the put-downs altogether so that doesn't happen in the first place

6 hours ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

Why must Vacuum be something players choose to equip, when the statistics have already shown that the vast majority of players will always choose to equip it?

6 hours ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

The question is not "why should players have to earn Vacuum," the question is "why can't Vacuum be applied to the Warframe, and why does it have to cost a mod slot?"

6 hours ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

I am not in the dark about why DE made that decision, I am criticizing the reasoning that went into that decision. If keeping Vacuum as a progression item is really that critically important, why can't it simply be moved? For example, crafting an upgrade segment or applying something similar to an Exilus Adapter?

And here I think is the root of your logic that I disagree with.

Statistics show that the vast majority of players equip Serration too, but DE still hasn't buffed all weapons in the game by 165%

In case you call me out for using a super extreme example, let me revisit your closing statement. "why should players have to earn Vacuum," versus "why can't Vacuum be applied to the Warframe, and why does it have to cost a mod slot?" The implications of the first are the answer to the second. Vacuum isn't applied to the Warframe, and costs a mod slot, BECAUSE you have to earn it. DE has decided that you will not get it for free.

Actually that still sounds circular, so let me pull back to a broader perspective to discuss some stuff about game design. It starts from a foundation you already know, so bear with me for a moment while I get to the new stuff:

Spoiler

In general, when studying game design I've learned that there are two kinds of Quality of Life improvements. QoLi. The first kind of QoLi is focused on removing a needless frustration; to use an example, in the Dark Souls series you can crush certain souls in your inventory to get more money. In Dark Souls 1 the inventory closes every single time you crush a soul, making you scroll back down to the souls if you wanted to crush more of them. In later games this was tweaked, and now you can select multiple souls at once in your inventory, and crush them all at once. This saves the player some much-maligned busywork that didn't serve the game much

The second kind of QoLi is focused on removing an intentional frustration. We can see an example of this in Warframe itself. Kubrows and Kavats slowly lose health every day they're not in stasis unless the player feeds them DNA stabilizers. But the player can earn an Incubator Upgrade that makes them lose much less health every day. This also reduces the amount of fiddling and busywork the player needs to mess with, but with a measure of busywork that the devs intentionally added to the game.

Now, this second kind of QoLi itself has two subcategories: active and passive

An example of a passive QoLi2 is... the Incubator Upgrade I already mentioned. You craft it once, and it's always on. You've earned your QoLi2, you don't need to budget for it.

An example of an active QoLi2 would be Gathering Swarm from Hollow Knight. Gathering Swarm is basically Vacuum from Warframe, in that it picks up money from the ground so you don't have to actively grab it, but it's a mod for your player character himself. There's a catch though: just like Warframe, you can't equip it for free. It takes up space on your limited shelf of "charm notches" that could also be spent on faster attack speed or amplifiers for your magic spells.

So having established all that, we once again arrive at your question: WHY is Vacuum an active QoLi2 and not a passive QoLi2? Well I think the reason for that is to look at not where you want it to be, but where it already is: companions

Companions in Warframe have a simple concept: a little helper that does cool little things for you, but you lose those things for the rest of the mission if they die. They knock enemies over, they strip enemy armor, they break open crates, they unlock lockers, they collect Codex scans for people who care about that, they increase your maximum ammo count. And yes, they pick up items. Those are a lot of cool functions! I would love to have all of those for free! Indeed, I know you would too

And DE knows those are cool functions. DE knows they would let you take your mind off doing the other stuff and just get back to shooting all the enemies. And that's exactly why they aren't turning it into a QoLi2 passive

Warframe is a deliberately grindy game. Anyone who believed them last year when they said they wanted less grind probably wasn't paying attention to the "deliberately" part. They should have phrased it "we want less meaningless grind". DE didn't put the busywork of picking up loot in the game (or rather, leave it in the game for 6 years) because they weren't thinking, they put it in on purpose. It's piece of busywork, a source of frustration they WANT you to run into. And because it's something they deliberately put there, is why they make Vacuum a QoLi2 active, not passive

Edited by TARINunit9

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52 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Statistics show that the vast majority of players equip Serration too, but DE still hasn't buffed all weapons in the game by 165%

In fairness, this is a terrible example. There is absolutely no reason to have these flat damage mods in the game. It takes uniqueness away from the modding experience. So far, I have only found one weapon that can even remotely get away from running serration. And with a continuous push for more and more interesting mods, it gets more and more annoying that I have to always spend a slot on a %damage increase mod.

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1 hour ago, TARINunit9 said:

I was actually including myself in that last put-down, not targeting you. But yeah, let's get me to stop with the put-downs altogether so that doesn't happen in the first place

And here I think is the root of your logic that I disagree with.

Statistics show that the vast majority of players equip Serration too, but DE still hasn't buffed all weapons in the game by 165%

Setting aside the extremity, this is kind of the point I'm making. There are a lot of things that are the way they are because "the devs said so." That doesn't make them good design decisions.

1 hour ago, TARINunit9 said:

In case you call me out for using a super extreme example, let me revisit your closing statement. "why should players have to earn Vacuum," versus "why can't Vacuum be applied to the Warframe, and why does it have to cost a mod slot?" The implications of the first are the answer to the second.

Except you got it wrong; I plainly acknowledged that it was fine for players to "earn" vacuum and even fielded a couple of suggestions for alternate acquisition.

e.g., Ship segment or Warframe-specific adapter a la Exilus.

1 hour ago, TARINunit9 said:

Vacuum isn't applied to the Warframe, and costs a mod slot, BECAUSE you have to earn it. DE has decided that you will not get it for free.

Actually that still sounds circular,

It sounds circular because it is circular. I get that DE has decided it is not free, but that decision is completely arbitrary, poorly supported, and easily reversible.

1 hour ago, TARINunit9 said:

so let me pull back to a broader perspective to discuss some stuff about game design. It starts from a foundation you already know, so bear with me for a moment while I get to the new stuff:

  Reveal hidden contents

In general, when studying game design I've learned that there are two kinds of Quality of Life improvements. QoLi. The first kind of QoLi is focused on removing a needless frustration; to use an example, in the Dark Souls series you can crush certain souls in your inventory to get more money. In Dark Souls 1 the inventory closes every single time you crush a soul, making you scroll back down to the souls if you wanted to crush more of them. In later games this was tweaked, and now you can select multiple souls at once in your inventory, and crush them all at once. This saves the player some much-maligned busywork that didn't serve the game much

The second kind of QoLi is focused on removing an intentional frustration. We can see an example of this in Warframe itself. Kubrows and Kavats slowly lose health every day they're not in stasis unless the player feeds them DNA stabilizers. But the player can earn an Incubator Upgrade that makes them lose much less health every day. This also reduces the amount of fiddling and busywork the player needs to mess with, but with a measure of busywork that the devs intentionally added to the game.

Now, this second kind of QoLi itself has two subcategories: active and passive

An example of a passive QoLi2 is... the Incubator Upgrade I already mentioned. You craft it once, and it's always on. You've earned your QoLi2, you don't need to budget for it.

An example of an active QoLi2 would be Gathering Swarm from Hollow Knight. Gathering Swarm is basically Vacuum from Warframe, in that it picks up money from the ground so you don't have to actively grab it, but it's a mod for your player character himself. There's a catch though: just like Warframe, you can't equip it for free. It takes up space on your limited shelf of "charm notches" that could also be spent on faster attack speed or amplifiers for your magic spells.

So having established all that, we once again arrive at your question: WHY is Vacuum an active QoLi2 and not a passive QoLi2? Well I think the reason for that is to look at not where you want it to be, but where it already is: companions

Companions in Warframe have a simple concept: a little helper that does cool little things for you, but you lose those things for the rest of the mission if they die. They knock enemies over, they strip enemy armor, they break open crates, they unlock lockers, they collect Codex scans for people who care about that, they increase your maximum ammo count. And yes, they pick up items. Those are a lot of cool functions! I would love to have all of those for free! Indeed, I know you would too

And DE knows those are cool functions. DE knows they would let you take your mind off doing the other stuff and just get back to shooting all the enemies. And that's exactly why they aren't turning it into a QoLi2 passive

That's fair, and I suspect that if that were given as the "official" reasoning more people would be inclined to quiet down about it.

Nicely done, you presented a compelling reason that wasn't "because DE said so," "Univac would be OP," or "players who want Vacuum are just lazy."

1 hour ago, TARINunit9 said:

Warframe is a deliberately grindy game. Anyone who believed them last year when they said they wanted less grind probably wasn't paying attention to the "deliberately" part. They should have phrased it "we want less meaningless grind". DE didn't put the busywork of picking up loot in the game (or rather, leave it in the game for 6 years) because they weren't thinking, they put it in on purpose. It's piece of busywork, a source of frustration they WANT you to run into. And because it's something they deliberately put there, is why they make Vacuum a QoLi2 active, not passive

Even so, I think they need to reexamine that more closely given how things have changed over those 6 years.

Back when Warframe was just starting out, it was a lot more important to regulate how much loot players picked up because all of their monetized content was stuff players could craft using looted resources. Nowadays, things have skewed more heavily toward loot that is NOT picked up off the ground.

Warframe parts are mission rewards, not drops. Rivens don't use any dropped resources. Many players have enough resources stockpiled that they can just craft blueprints immediately without needing to grind for them. Tennogen is a thing. Players are even trading with each other to bypass the latent RNG attached to drops like mods.

In other words... Dropped loot simply isn't as important as it was when Vacuum was first introduced. I think the resistance to making Vacuum universal is more based in affinity for the status quo than its continued relevance.

To be perfectly clear, I'm personally fine with Vacuum staying as a companion-only precept. It's not like I would otherwise NOT take my Sentinel along. I just don't accept most of the pseudo-arguments that get flung around regarding the subject as valid.

On a bit of a tangent, I think that DE should edit the Vacuum effect to be centered on the Warframe/Operator (independent of companion location) to make it compatible with Kubrows/Kavats. Universalizing Fetch is a good first step, but it's just not quite the same.

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I was in for a pleasant surprise when I saw Garuda's blood themed abilities. But her 4th ability just looks boring and looks so similar to Revenant's.

The shield kinda looks a bit aesthetically out of place too. 

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On 2018-10-19 at 5:34 PM, holyicon said:

Ugh... typical.

That's not even what I was referring to.

I couldn't see where she was supposed to shoot at the resource until she shot at it.

I can see the white rectangle on the wheel.

I can see the current version tracing border around resources.

What I can't see, is a cluster of colored pixels inside a larger cluster of similarly colored (to my vision) pixels.

I had to ask a friend to describe what she was actually targeting to arrive at that description.

You normal color-sighted players that can't SEE what the issues could even be for color-deficient players. lol 😛

Oh, THAT is what you meant, I thought it was with the wheel.

I could barely see that either myself, doesn't help in the least it was 90% behind the texture of the colored spots. Yeah, I can see how that would be even harder to see for you.

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Everytime I play Arbitrations, my laptop is still crashing. 😔 I have an Alienware 15 R3. When I go on Arbitrations sometimes the game would just freeze upon extracting and I’d have to force restart my laptop. The worst that has happened to me since the Chimera update is when i was playing Arbitrations, and then the game stopped and a blue screen appeared, telling me something went wrong and my laptop would automatically restart. This has happened to me so many times already to the point that it’s so frustrating. This hasn’t happened to me before at all. It has never happened to my laptoo, it only started happening with this Chimera Update.

My laptop specs:

Alienware 15 R3

i5-6300HQ @ 2.30GHz (4CPUs)

GTX 1060 6GB

8GB RAM

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Hey guys. I watched dev stream after it was released and you did great work with the animations,BUT I don't like Garuda's 4th it's dull and boring why would being a space blender be fun? When I saw the concept art with Garuda having the claws I was like "oh Jesus! Do we get an exciting edgy killer frame that can use her claws?" bu after seeing dev stream 118 I was bored of the idea that Garuda will be a disposable boring blunt frame. And that makes me sad... 

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@myuushii, @jfhsanseiIII

Just wanted to say I'm sorry. Had some time to cool down and I can see that I clearly overdid it.

I guess that's why I shouldn't post on forums when I have some stressful stuff happening IRL.

Hope we good.

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While I enjoyed most of it, I have to say, I'm somewhat disappointed in Garuda's abilities. Well, mostly her 4th -it's so BORING. It's pretty much a Revenant ult -which by itself is also quite boring. Dunno about others, but I'm a HUGE fan of the 'Exalted Weapon' type abilities because they let you be a lot more adaptable. Or channel abilities that still let you use weapons or movement (i.e. Ember's WoF). Please, PLEASE reconsider. At worst, how about her plopping down her claws, turning into a stationary target that can use different attacks depending on input; i.e. normal fire launches a spear to an unfortunate soul, alternate fire pulls them to you and melee deals damage in a close area in front. If you can also use the rest of her abilities, you could pull enemies to turn them into healing trees or shields.

Speaking of the healing tree; does it heal allies? At that small a range (it IS small for a mobile game like Warframe), it better be.

Also her self-damage-for-energy-etc can be easily exploited with Quick Thinking + Rage. Like, STUPID EASY. At least TRY to not make such absurdly obvious combos so... well, absurdly obvious (there's always going to be SOME meta way to cheese, but at least TRY, yeah?).

Rest of the stream, I enjoyed, thumbs up from me!

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13 hours ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

Even so, I think they need to reexamine that more closely given how things have changed over those 6 years.

Back when Warframe was just starting out, it was a lot more important to regulate how much loot players picked up because all of their monetized content was stuff players could craft using looted resources. Nowadays, things have skewed more heavily toward loot that is NOT picked up off the ground.

Warframe parts are mission rewards, not drops. Rivens don't use any dropped resources. Many players have enough resources stockpiled that they can just craft blueprints immediately without needing to grind for them. Tennogen is a thing. Players are even trading with each other to bypass the latent RNG attached to drops like mods.

In other words... Dropped loot simply isn't as important as it was when Vacuum was first introduced. I think the resistance to making Vacuum universal is more based in affinity for the status quo than its continued relevance.

To be perfectly clear, I'm personally fine with Vacuum staying as a companion-only precept. It's not like I would otherwise NOT take my Sentinel along. I just don't accept most of the pseudo-arguments that get flung around regarding the subject as valid.

On a bit of a tangent, I think that DE should edit the Vacuum effect to be centered on the Warframe/Operator (independent of companion location) to make it compatible with Kubrows/Kavats. Universalizing Fetch is a good first step, but it's just not quite the same.

I like this rebuttal of yours. I can see both for and against it, but I thought I should give it the acknowledgement all the same

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On 2018-10-19 at 9:34 PM, myuushii said:

Digging Garuda except for one thing and I guess it's subject to change but I don't like the shield floating above, it's kinda distracting and the frame shape of the bones looked odd to me.

I think it would be nicer if the shield was just blood streams (or whatever) swirling around Garuda getting more intense with the build up or just something more relatebale to being a shield.

Also I dunno the specifics about the ult but it might be good if the blades shoot out when the timer runs out becoming projectiles (imagine all the enemies getting nailed to walls). 

Been thinking about a few other things. I can't tell if 1 is str based or even insta kills an enemy (maybe finisher damage?). But I think it might be appropriate if she can chain the 1 to jump from enemy to enemy damaging them. The last hit (which you chose so it can be just the 1st enemy) being the kill/high damage attack. If the attack doesn't kill, you're kinda f'd from the start as Garuda as far as I can see it, unless you get the shield without a kill.
Like someone said, I don't dig the orb attack either. I don't understand where that is coming from, when she's gore themed with giant claws. Given the chain attack is a bad idea (which it probably is, and reminds me of Ash), at least visually she could just turn the blood into projectiles swinging her claws or whatever.

For the self damage skill, I think it would be fine for it to clear status effects (like Molt). Or to throw that dude who complained about toxin and slash a bone (hue), clear those. I think it makes sense when she gets rid of her own blood.

And yeah, the 4th is kinda underwhelming. Mostly from a visual standpoint as of now (the blades are fine). But why another press 4 to aoe a bit skill? Pretty boring as is. I wouldn't mind it was just projectiles like boltor bolts that stagger a tiny bit. Low cost and damage initially but you can "chain" it paying energy everytime to shoot several waves in a row. Due to angles, this loses effectiveness on long range and in general is blocked by obstacles so aoe spam shouldn't be a worry. Additionally it would be fitting for it to apply slash and puncture procs. As debuffs and I suppose main source of damage through bleed unless you spent your whole energy to shoot the projectiles. I would also like to see her have some sort of interaction with bleeding enemies in general. We don't really have many frames that play around with status types and debuffs a lot instead of just plain damage and we always ends up with AOE abillities that end up being nerfed because they oneshot entire maps with 1 button and have no intricacy.

Edited by myuushii

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Ok. Saw the new Garuda warframe. Looks great. But what's up with her 4th ability? I though DE was getting rid of the fire-n-forget gameplay and abilities. Plus it doesn't look fun, interactive or synergize with her other abilities

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On 2018-10-21 at 12:19 AM, DiabolusUrsus said:

In other words... Dropped loot simply isn't as important as it was when Vacuum was first introduced. I think the resistance to making Vacuum universal is more based in affinity for the status quo than its continued relevance.

To be perfectly clear, I'm personally fine with Vacuum staying as a companion-only precept. It's not like I would otherwise NOT take my Sentinel along. I just don't accept most of the pseudo-arguments that get flung around regarding the subject as valid.

On a bit of a tangent, I think that DE should edit the Vacuum effect to be centered on the Warframe/Operator (independent of companion location) to make it compatible with Kubrows/Kavats. Universalizing Fetch is a good first step, but it's just not quite the same.

Well-spoken. I would propose having an innate vacuum that picks up goods to where you are not absolutely required to have an sentinel - it would have a large enough range to where you can notice it, but it is so much better when you have a companion with you. Very clearly there is a magnetic field on the warframes, otherwise weapons would fall off your suit. This innate range would stack with your companions to get up to the maximum range, thereby making companions still more agreeable to take along than going alone.

If, however, the developers simply feel that having a 4 meter vacuum (or whatever is considered reasonable) doesn't fit their vision of how a warframe is, say so. Speak up for yourself and say, "This doesn't fit our vision of how a warframe is designed" - which is perfectly reasonable. No further explanation is required, if that's how things work in your universe, that's how they work.

Edited by Mach25

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Even if i dont approve of fetch, it needs to come before fortuna, so we can test the crap out of it on normal maps and the plains for bugs, and if we want a general change to vacuum in the first place.

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On 2018-10-19 at 3:14 PM, AuroraSonicBoom said:

Not happy about you giving in and adding vacuum to pets. Was buffing the abilities of other companions to be worth it really that difficult? I hope you will at least draw a hard line at warframe based vacuum. There's gotta be at least *some* cost involved, and a single mod slot just isn't enough.

Vacuum is too much of a convenience feature to be restricted to sentinels.

 

How about actual reasons to use sentinels rather than some mechanic many people won't do w/o.

Would be a godsend to any looter to have loot sucked to you(at least the rarity one selected).

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