Disappointed With Nyx rework list

[NinthAria]

You're probably disappointed because it's a first draft. They even said on the stream they don't have anything actually implemented yet, or at least not enough to showcase. Still a little early to be calling it a wash.

Personally, I think some of it sounds pretty good. Being able to amp up your Mind Control target could be big, depending on how it's calculated. Off the cuff I'm not crazy about the new Psychic Bolts, but on the other hand...it can't really get worse, so whatever. Depending on the numbers it could actually be handy at high levels.

Either way, I don't think any of it is so flawed at the conceptual level as to not be worth a shot. Just have to wait until we have more details.

[(PSN)watt4hem]

If you'd just not pick trash mobs then they'll be tanky enough to get use of the frost absorb change. Try ancients on sorties, those guys can seriously sponge some damage.

Her 2 got its purpose completely changed. It's a debuff focus instead of trying to kill.

28 minutes ago, Bombarder0 said:

I just want nyx to be able to control more than 1 foe .-.

 

∆ chaos is a thing. Making nyx control more than 1 foes with mind control would just make her too similar to SoTD nekros or revenant (imo).

 

Also, it's their first change iteration, chances are they're gonna keep looking into her so everything is subject to change.

Edited October 20, 2018 by (PS4)watt4hem
Sounded way too salty.

[Ikusi_Prime]

2 hours ago, Kyronz said:

NEW PASSIVE: Misfire -- enemies can't seem to truly target Nyx and all receive an accuracy debuff against her.

she still get oneshot, passive is worthless

• MIND CONTROL: Target will absorb any damage done to it 4 seconds after cast. The amount of damage absorbed then increases the output damage of the target.

WORTHLESS in a one shot kill game.  dead mobs can't do more damage.

 

• PSYCHIC BOLTS: This ability is completely being redone. All enemies hit lose defenses (armor/shields) for a short duration. Infested units will be slowed, in addition to the deactivation of any infested auras.

one faction and pointless if i want to slow infested i will use the aura.

 

• ABSORB: The math and potentially damage type is being changed. No other details outside of that! .

Nerf to damage from absorb, only a mron forgets the last 3 years of nerfs and expect this tow ork out for the better of playres.

 

 

The new passive isn't worthless. You get hit less, period. It gives her more survivability than her old passive, and she doesn't even need to invest energy to get that benefit. It's an improvement. 

The change to Mind Control lets you take a beefy enemy like a Nox or Heavy Gunner and turn them into an absolute monster. If you're choosing the weakest enemy that can get one-shot by the other enemies, you picked the wrong target to Mind Control. Regardless, it's an improvement. 

The ability that is replacing Psychic Bolts affects more than just Infested. It also strips off enemy armor and shields. It's basically a combination of all three faction-specific auras for a short time, and that's pretty good. Psychic Bolts was garbage. It's impossible to get worse than that, and this new ability will be really nice for setting up kills on a group of enemies. Improvement. Yes, you could just take one of those crappy auras, but this lets you get the benefit without actually taking it, on top of getting to bring an aura you actually want. 

They're probably buffing the damage to Absorb, or at least changing the scaling to be less dependent on enemies hitting you to compensate for the new passive reducing their accuracy. Nowhere did they say it was a nerf. 

You just seem bitter and jaded, refusing to see the actual benefits of these changes because they weren't the changes you wanted to see. 

Edited October 20, 2018 by Aejan

[fishworshipper]

1 hour ago, Marvelous_A said:

I see the proposed rework just doesn't address any of her real problems.

Her 1st controls an enemy however you have no control over its behavior. It's very unreliable as damage output even with the augment. The proposed rework is supposed to increase the damage which is rather meaningless for 2 reasons - mob damage is always negligible as Nyx herself can deal very high damage with good weapons, also, the damage absorb relies heavily on RNG coz it requires your enemies to target your minion, which is not likely to happen if you cast Chaos too where enemies will be busy shooting at each other. DE need to increase the threat level of controlled foe so that it will be the prioritized target of mobs.

Her 1 is terrible and unreliable damage now, but it will be excellent damage after the rework (provided the enemy has not-godawful accuracy). This is because the phrase that I bolded in your quote is objectively wrong. That isn’t how her 1 will work. The damage your mind controlled enemy does will be based on the damage that you pump into it, not the damage that other enemies deal to it, which invalidates both of your complaints. I will agree that higher enemy aggression on the Mind Control target would be nice, though - keep your enemies shooting him and not you.

1 hour ago, Marvelous_A said:

Her 2nd targets random enemies coz you have no direct control over the targeting, much like Shurikens. Temporary removal of shields and armors are rather insignificant effect in this game - while they're indeed powerful, you can only target 2 foes at a time and we are talking about 10-20 foes charging at you at the same time in a high level mission and all of them are capable to one-shot you.

Her 3rd makes enemies shoot at random people but we don't want this, we want them to shoot at someone that's not one of us and that's why Chaos is a mediocre CC at best. It's a shame they aren't going to make any change of Chaos, I'd like a accuracy debuff considering it's pretty bad in damage output anyway at least they're less likely to hurt our teammates.

Her 4th is ok-ish but it's essentially invincibility in cost of mobility with mediocre damage potential. I'd prefer a shield myself.

While her 2 doesn’t target completely random enemies, it is difficult to control who gets affected and these points are all fairly valid.

[Kontrollo]

As someone who play Nyx a lot: The changes sound alright.. if a bit uninspired.

• New passive: Definitely helps, definitely glad she got a new one. Current one isn't completely useless, but a real nuisance when you want to keep a pet Eximus or heavy unit around.
• Chaos wasn't mentioned, which is good because it doesn't need to be changed
• Charging up a Mind Controlled enemy's damage: Alright, but that's time spent not shooting other stuff and doesn't address the AI problem. Need to see numbers.
• Psychic Bolt replacement: potentially very powerful, if bland.
• Absorb: Well, it *is* god mode already, especially with the augment. Not sure how much can be done there. The days it was used for damage are long gone, anyway. I just wish it got a ragdoll effect.

The big question here though: Are the abilities getting some synergy, too?

 

P.S. If they keep the Pacifying Bolts augment's effect with the new ability, they must bring the dance animation back, for those who remember. 😉

[5H4DE]

For someone who claims to play Nyx it seems you don't really know how MC works...the MC target is invulnerable to friendly damage for the entire ability duration. The 4s at the start with this change is the time window you have to shoot at it and boost up it's damage.

[stormy505]

4 hours ago, Bombarder0 said:

You sure its gonna be the same damage? or just some default

btw i meant she is only able to mind control 1 enemy,not 7 like rev

Revenants is considered to be the worse of the two because they can die from your team. And both have the issue that ai do tickle damage to other ai. This fixes that and is the change i'm most looking forward to

[(PSN)WeeMalk5]

The planned changes sound pretty good to me. But then again I'm happy with the way she is now.

[FireSegment]

10 hours ago, Bombarder0 said:

I Agree with it, but I wish the removal of shields and defences were not for a "short" time,

since you can always spam it, having a short time doesn't matter, it just mean the debuff won't stack.

[WarBaby2]

6 hours ago, stormy505 said:

Revenants is considered to be the worse of the two because they can die from your team. And both have the issue that ai do tickle damage to other ai. This fixes that and is the change i'm most looking forward to

Yet, it shouldn't be necessary... Venari does full pet damage, and I really don't see why Nyx' ONE mind control "pet" doesn't do from the get go.

[Sloan441]

10 hours ago, Kyronz said:

 

Not seeing even a  nyx improvement...very sad they not do anything for her.

Much of the community have no idea how to play her well to begin with. I don't see that changing with any of the proposed changes to Nyx. 

Personally--and I play her a lot--I think the proposed changes are a net positive. We'll have to wait for actual implementation for real feedback.

MC looks to be really powerful. Presently, I almost always run Nyx with autotrigger weapons. That may change with this revision. 

PB being a massive debuff would get players using it and looks very good indeed. Presently, it's little more than a target indicator. This, however...

10 hours ago, Kyronz said:

mob lvl 10+ pyschic bolt cannot kill.

...is so much BS. I've seen Nyx with 40% power kill mid-20ish enemies with PB. Nevertheless, this isn't how you play her. It's not her thing. 

Chaos is still kind of wonky as it is, but it's functional enough. Things have been a bit out of kilter since the shadows bug. Getting it back to where it was before the shadows issues would be all I'd ask of it. For now. 

Absorb. Fine as is. The one thing that I think a lot of Nyx players would like to see is Assimilate rolled into Absorb. I'm of somewhat mixed feelings on this, but the fact is the movement, slow as it is, is a huge tactical advantage. I almost never use garden variety Absorb anymore. It's just that stark of a difference is usability. 

[(PSN)Dark-TailedFox]

9 hours ago, (PS4)godlysparta said:

Um... you do know that her minion can be killed by your or you teammate while you’re mind controlling them right?

If you're talking currently, the minion has damage immunity from allies. It stores the damage dealt then hits it with I believe 30% of the total in impact damage (or I may be thinking of Hysteria when it drops with enemies in range).

The rework treats the MC target like a personalized Frost Bubble. Immune to damage for 4s to eat all damage aimed at it, unleashes it afterwards for the entire duration of MC on all enemies like the Civil Defender in COD3 Zombies.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

The rework ideas sound promising, I’ve only some concerns with the kit:

• Mind Control’s buff is based on damage absorbed. Will this affect the Mind Controlled target when Nyx is in her Absorb state? Does the Mind Controlled target have to sustain damage in that brief 4 second window (plenty of time, btw)? Or is it reliant on Nyx actively taking damage? Need to see it in order to call out on it.
• The proposed idea for changing Psychic Bolts is great, but if it scales the amount of armor/shield/infested movement strip based on Power Strength that could be an issue with low Power Strength Nyx players. However, if the immediate disable of Infested/Eximus auras is a perk that’s not reliant on Power Strength that’s an exceptional boon to the ability. Good stuff, can’t wait to see more about this new ability. Would like to see if there is a cap to the amount stripped on low Power Strength builds, or if damage vulnerability is based on a separate statistic like Nezha’s Blazing Chakram opening enemy vulnerability when they’re affected/survived by the ability. edit: I’m also curious to see what DE plans to do for the augment, hopefully not make targets affected irradiated since that’s just a double-dip on what Chaos does already.

On a side note, Absorb’s damage and range has always been trash. Magnetic damage has always been trash. Please don’t change it to Impact damage, Absorb needs a better damage type. Like others have said, any change to the current damage algorithm for Absorb will be an upgrade, there should not be any reason to complain about the proposed changes to the ability. 

Edited October 20, 2018 by (PS4)Lei-Lei_23
Additional information on bullet point 2.

[Bobveela]

You know, even if they just made mind control a really cheap channel instead of a timed thing, I think I'd be fine with that change on it.  Psychic bolts looks like it's still going to suck though, unfortunate.

Mostly since she's not a damage frame I'd actually like to see her tankier

Edited October 20, 2018 by Bobveela

[WarBaby2]

2 minutes ago, Bobveela said:

You know, even if they just made mind control a really cheap channel instead of a timed thing, I think I'd be fine with that change on it.  Psychic bolts looks like it's still going to suck though, unfortunate.

I dunno, it's just too similar to antimatter drop and feels like a bandaid... not to mention it doesn't make any logical sense. I mean,channeling incoming damage outward, ok, but channeling damage into an "enemy's" weapon? Kinda silly...

Edited October 20, 2018 by WarBaby2

[-DG-ShadowPrime]

3 hours ago, WarBaby2 said:

I dunno, it's just too similar to antimatter drop and feels like a bandaid... not to mention it doesn't make any logical sense. I mean,channeling incoming damage outward, ok, but channeling damage into an "enemy's" weapon? Kinda silly...

How is it similar to antimatter drop? And since when has logic been a defining factor for abilities? 

It's sure as hell an upgrade to MC. People keep begging for it to control more than one target but that doesn't change the fact that AI does tickle damage to other units. So this is less like a bandaid and more like an upgrade in terms that your minion can actually kill for once.

[Teridax68]

I'm pretty disappointed as well, it feels like Nyx's problems were only addressed from a very distant view, instead of looking into how to genuinely improve her gameplay. It's true that Nyx suffers at higher levels due to enemy armor, but having an ability that just... turns off armor, or whatever, isn't exactly the most interesting ability around. Giving enemies reduced accuracy against Nyx has been a common suggestion, but it risks anti-synergizing with her 4, while not really conveying her survivability in the most readable manner. The change to her 1 is one of the changes I like, but even then, the similarities between Mind Control and Chaos aren't being addressed, and it seems like we're all completely glossing over how Revenant's Enthrall can have seven different mind-controlled enemies at once, and still suck. Unless a single mind-controlled opponent can be made literally well over seven times stronger, the ability's still going to feel more like an inconvenience than anything else. All of this is all the more disappointing when considering the fact that a great deal many players offered suggestions on how to improve Nyx, with developments upon her telekinetic and telepathic abilities, yet the end result still looks to be a Hydroid-caliber rework, with minimal effort done to address her gameplay problems.

Edited October 20, 2018 by Teridax68

[Edzhang]

What i want for her 1 is enemy controlled by nyx has invulnerability and draws aggro, so while mind control is active, nyx has an immortal bodyguard along.. so even though we can only control 1 enemy, it’s more dependable than 7 mobs that revenant has..

I want to see the numbers DE going to put on this ability, if it has some good numbers like mag’s 3, then it’s a good ability.. i love debuff-type ability and i like psychic bolt as it is, seeing the proposed change, i think it’s even better..

[WarBaby2]

19 minutes ago, ShadowExodus said:

How is it similar to antimatter drop? And since when has logic been a defining factor for abilities? 

It's sure as hell an upgrade to MC. People keep begging for it to control more than one target but that doesn't change the fact that AI does tickle damage to other units. So this is less like a bandaid and more like an upgrade in terms that your minion can actually kill for once.

Cast it and shoot the thing to make it stronger... like antimatter drop. Sure, your minion might be stronger, that doesn't make the AI any smarter, though, let alone add additional utility to the minion. The damage alone isn't the problem with the MC thrall, never was. Venari can heal or protect Khora, Nekros' minions can absorb damage for him (ok, through augment, but still) and Revenant's thralls can do AOE damage and synergize with his movement ability... Nyx' thrall does none of those things.

Edited October 20, 2018 by WarBaby2

[fishworshipper]

8 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

 Unless a single mind-controlled opponent can be made literally well over seven times stronger, the ability's still going to feel more like an inconvenience than anything else. 

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

The rework ideas sound promising, I’ve only some concerns with the kit:

• Mind Control’s buff is based on damage absorbed. Will this affect the Mind Controlled target when Nyx is in her Absorb state? Does the Mind Controlled target have to sustain damage in that brief 4 second window (plenty of time, btw)? Or is it reliant on Nyx actively taking damage? Need to see it in order to call out on it.

I swear it’s like nobody in this thread who’s criticizing the rework actually watched the Devstream before saying that DE is wrong. 

They outright stated in very simple terms how Mind Control will work. You use the ability, you pour as much damage as possible into the target for 4 seconds, and then that damage is added to the enemy’s base damage. Considering that an unmodded Gorgon is about as strong as a level 70 Heavy Gunner, obviously this will make them significantly more than 7x stronger. 

[Teridax68]

1 minute ago, fishworshipper said:

 

I swear it’s like nobody in this thread who’s criticizing the rework actually watched the Devstream before saying that DE is wrong. 

They outright stated in very simple terms how Mind Control will work. You use the ability, you pour as much damage as possible into the target for 4 seconds, and then that damage is added to the enemy’s base damage. Considering that an unmodded Gorgon is about as strong as a level 70 Heavy Gunner, obviously this will make them significantly more than 7x stronger. 

Did they specifically mention it was a 1:1 conversion? Even then, having one target deal Tigris Prime-enhanced base damage still means you only have one unit doing this, which still severely limits the damage she can deal through it. In the end, it's still a band-aid change that does little to address the concerns and requests players had with the ability, which is that mind-controlling one (1) single unit, and not even being able to properly direct them, isn't exactly the fullest realization one can expect from a mind-bending frame, one whose fantasy is ostensibly meant to involve bending entire armies to her will (and no, Chaos does not provide the fine-grained control one would want from Mind Control either).

[Secave]

I must say. Reading the changes that are surelly almost final (how many time DE changed their mind on a rework ? Truly). I'm a bit disappointed by those changes.

Her 1 should be 1 to 3 ennemies. The 4 sec absorb damage is a bit pointless. What if the target is alone buyt it's a great unit to have as an ally. then the damage output is so tiny it's useless. At least make it that they do more aggro than you (the player).

Her 2nd could be nice if it work like an aura you need to activate. When active... It does the reduction AND it double Nyx's passive.

Her 3 should have only 1 change. Make it that you can cast WHILE moving !  It will make nyx less clunky.

Her 4: Still wating for the dmg output. An other thing could be that a % of ennemies can have the "fear" effect after her 4 release. (like Nekros 2nd).

[fishworshipper]

2 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

Did they specifically mention it was a 1:1 conversion? Even then, having one target deal Tigris Prime-enhanced base damage still means you only have one unit doing this, which still severely limits the damage she can deal through it. In the end, it's still a band-aid change that does little to address the concerns and requests players had with the ability, which is that mind-controlling one (1) single unit, and not even being able to properly direct them, isn't exactly the fullest realization one can expect from a mind-bending frame, one whose fantasy is ostensibly meant to involve bending entire armies to her will (and no, Chaos does not provide the fine-grained control one would want from Mind Control either).

I agree that not being able to control where your Mind Control target goes is a major hindrance to the ability. Perhaps they could make tapping 1 place a marker for the enemy to defend and holding 1 dismiss the Mind Control. Any more precise control would be pointless: if you can mark enemies for your MC to shoot, then you can just as easily shoot them yourself.

Having a unit with a fully automatic rifle do Tigris Prime damage means that your damage output will be more than doubled, since they won’t have the issue of reloading every 2 seconds like the player does, nor the damage falloff. As long as the enemy is shooting at all, they’ll be outdamaging you ((assuming a 1:1 damage in:out ratio, which I’ll admit they haven’t specified).

[Bombarder0]

Il just post this link into the feedback so DE can see it, or is it elsewhere?

[Teridax68]

21 minutes ago, fishworshipper said:

I agree that not being able to control where your Mind Control target goes is a major hindrance to the ability. Perhaps they could make tapping 1 place a marker for the enemy to defend and holding 1 dismiss the Mind Control. Any more precise control would be pointless: if you can mark enemies for your MC to shoot, then you can just as easily shoot them yourself.

This sounds like a good scheme, yes.

21 minutes ago, fishworshipper said:

Having a unit with a fully automatic rifle do Tigris Prime damage means that your damage output will be more than doubled, since they won’t have the issue of reloading every 2 seconds like the player does, nor the damage falloff. As long as the enemy is shooting at all, they’ll be outdamaging you ((assuming a 1:1 damage in:out ratio, which I’ll admit they haven’t specified).

This is only damage on paper, though. Even if a single unit were to deal Tigris Prime damage on every bullet with an automatic rifle (and you yourself are telling me that there's no knowing what the actual damage conversion ratio is), they would still have fairly limited range, mobility, and accuracy. What makes us Tenno so good at killing isn't just our weapon damage, but our ability to quickly relocate in order to kill enemies as quickly as possible. Meanwhile, enemy AI is notoriously sketchy, so that one Mind Controlled unit with godlike damage may not be all that effective if they can only focus one enemy at a time, and are stuck walking through a level while everyone else is bullet jumping through.