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Archwing content... Uggggghhhhhh. Change my mind.


(XBOX)Luca Explo
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This portion of the game just feels tacked-on and to a certain extent gimmicky. When I started playing the game I was anxious to get my archwing, it brought me back memories of getting my first flying mount in WoW... until then I started flying with the AW. The combat is so boring, missions are essentially the same as on the ground except the controls are beyond dreadful (and I liked Sims 4 and Elite Dangerous on console). Missions feel unrewarding, melee is just so awkward and abilities are meh. I don't feel at all compelled to try it some more and underwater archwing is 10x worse.

This was only further highlighted with the current razorbeak event. There's just no way even 200k credits and a catalyst will make me put myself through such horrendous gameplay. Despite that, I'm really enjoying the game and can't wait to try eidelon fights.

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Its the same with the main game. If you're trying to play the normal game with Excalibur and Mk Bo and Mk Braton through the starchart you're not going to enjoy it and be frustrated by quite alot. If you actually have the weapons and archwings maxed and formad it can be pretty fun. 

Melee is much more fun imo that the guns where most are a hit and miss being the hits are only Fluctus and Imperator Vandal imo but the melee can be really fast paced Ash's 4 type of killing fun. Spamming the melee button feels like you're teleporting between enemies to kill and definitely fun personally.

Itzals suck everything skill is great but personally i prefer Elytrons nuke ability. The frames are different enough that they have diff purposes to them. 

Basically i'd hate the gameplay too if all i have is a lvl 20 Odonata, lvl 10 Grattler, half assed Veritux and no decent mod builds and potato on them.

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I feel you, after hearing the new elite alerts required a 100% map completion I started to do all those missions because I never bothered to before and I died a couple times just by constantly bumping into stuff in those narrow corridors, a couple mods I got from a friend helped a bunch though but overall that mode needs to be rebuilt from scratch if they want it to be popular imo, specially those corpus maps which are a major clusterf**k right now

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Archwing isn't my favorite, but I have no issues doing it... now.

With starter Archwing and weapons, I hated it.Was dying a lot and couldn't do damage. Difficult to farm mods when I was barely tickling enemies. I avoided it as much as I could.

Then I got better gear. Itzal and Amesha. I use Itzal for the plains and Amesha for everything else. Fluctus is my main primary and Centaur for melee. I was able to solo through every Archwing mission with no issue with these. I leveled up weapons quickly and I started getting a ton of mods. A good feeling picking up a mod and it saying new 😛 Granted I still can't help, but look like a pinball smacking every wall and obstacle between me and the objective of the mission haha.

 

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3 hours ago, Brandt1 said:

Archwing isn't my favorite, but I have no issues doing it... now.

With starter Archwing and weapons, I hated it.Was dying a lot and couldn't do damage. Difficult to farm mods when I was barely tickling enemies. I avoided it as much as I could.

Then I got better gear. Itzal and Amesha. I use Itzal for the plains and Amesha for everything else. Fluctus is my main primary and Centaur for melee. I was able to solo through every Archwing mission with no issue with these. I leveled up weapons quickly and I started getting a ton of mods. A good feeling picking up a mod and it saying new 😛 Granted I still can't help, but look like a pinball smacking every wall and obstacle between me and the objective of the mission haha.

Lol, I have maxed out gear and I still detest the mode in every level that has a narrow corridor.  

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Arcwhing is good, it's just the lack of orinal contents that make it boring

Their is only two gamemode where the arcwhing is wises used and can be fun

... In the jordas verdict (so yea one less now)

And in mr 25 test....

 

That where is the problem

Their is railjack in some times (TM)

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Once you unlock its controls beyond the abilities you might change your mind

It is as mobile and manueverable as the wfs once you find its boosted  speed 

Try to find the buttons for back/side rolls, boost and use melee often when approaching anything 

Archwing is a cool reference to the Gundam space battle trope, and turned into a nifty open world utility 

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5 hours ago, (XB1)Luca Explo said:

This portion of the game just feels tacked-on and to a certain extent gimmicky. When I started playing the game I was anxious to get my archwing, it brought me back memories of getting my first flying mount in WoW... until then I started flying with the AW. The combat is so boring, missions are essentially the same as on the ground except the controls are beyond dreadful (and I liked Sims 4 and Elite Dangerous on console). Missions feel unrewarding, melee is just so awkward and abilities are meh. I don't feel at all compelled to try it some more and underwater archwing is 10x worse.

This was only further highlighted with the current razorbeak event. There's just no way even 200k credits and a catalyst will make me put myself through such horrendous gameplay. Despite that, I'm really enjoying the game and can't wait to try eidelon fights.

Why are people making threads with Change my mind like they are important enough to have people change their mind.

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Not going to try and change anyone's mind.

If you like it, thats great. If not...all you can do is grit your teeth and play through the frustration.

 

I'm not overly keen on Archwing, as it wasn't designed to be used in the tight confines of spacecraft corridors...which all the missions (except Intercept & Pursuit Modes) require.

In the end it all comes down to whether you can adapt your play style and learn to control it accurately.

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Archwing is straight up S#&$.

You need modded gear to be able to do the higher level mission.  Where is the only place to get a decent number of mods?

Higher level missions (specifically, the Neptune Mobile Defense).

You're not going to get any appreciable amount of mods, in a game type where enemies can spawn anywhere in a huge volume of 3D space, the loot they drop is near invisible because of the distance it's at, and which has you moving in straight lines between objectives, instead of flying around all over the place trying to get close enough to loot to actually see it.  We pick up mods in corridors because we run right over them, because where the enemies can be is restricted.

And don't just say to do Corpus missions.  The controls for archwing are every bit as S#&$ as its looting, making cramped spaces a nightmare to move in (the complete opposite of how easy it is to move through corridors in a Warframe).  It's like someone looked at space-combat games where you have control over what your craft does, and did everything they could to make it unintuitive and pointlessly complex in comparison.  The entirety of the design is an example of how NOT to design space combat.  They've taken 6-DoF, and then ruined it.

  • You want to strafe sideways to go through an opening.  You flip and slam into a wall (where in a warframe, if I want to do that, I get to choose).
  • You want to cut your engines and turn 180.  Your momentum follows the direction you're facing, and you slam into a wall (where in a warframe, the only time I'm forced to move in the direction I'm facing, is in aimglide, and I can still 180 then do it backwards).
  • You want to move up or down to go through an opening.  You can't because those controls for some stupid reason get disabled when you've activated sprint (and there is no clear indicator whether that's activated or not, and if you want to turn off toggle-sprint for archwing, then you have to change it for everything).  Archwing uses less buttons than the rest of the game.  There is no excuse whatsoever for disabling movement inputs to use for afterburner, when there are plenty of spare buttons to choose from to put it on, (like reload).
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An entire Archwing, weapon, and mod balance pass would make AW mode much more appealing imho. Especially the mods, considering that some mods are still extremely outdated. 

For example, why would I ever slot in Furor when it only grants +10% Attack Speed at max rank? That’s absolutely appalling. And if I wanted to boost the speed in which I fully charge my Velocitus, why must there be a separate mod that affects only this statistic (Shell Rush), when in normal gameplay Fire Rate mods should affect Charge Rate instead (in the instance of AW, Automatic Trigger)?

There’s a lot of very weird discrepancies in Archwing that really need another look at. As far as I’m concerned, this game mode is still very much broken and needs to be looked at asap (well before Railjack even).

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On 2018-10-20 at 8:03 AM, kambinks said:

Its the same with the main game. If you're trying to play the normal game with Excalibur and Mk Bo and Mk Braton through the starchart you're not going to enjoy it and be frustrated by quite alot. If you actually have the weapons and archwings maxed and formad it can be pretty fun. 

Melee is much more fun imo that the guns where most are a hit and miss being the hits are only Fluctus and Imperator Vandal imo but the melee can be really fast paced Ash's 4 type of killing fun. Spamming the melee button feels like you're teleporting between enemies to kill and definitely fun personally.

Itzals suck everything skill is great but personally i prefer Elytrons nuke ability. The frames are different enough that they have diff purposes to them. 

Basically i'd hate the gameplay too if all i have is a lvl 20 Odonata, lvl 10 Grattler, half assed Veritux and no decent mod builds and potato on them. 

In the normal gameplay the game makes you feel reasonably powerful since the start, getting new gear is pretty easy and the progression happens naturally when you advance in the Star Chart.

Meanwhile in the Archwing, your starting gear is absolute trash and crafting better stuff is rather costly. And since Archwing content feels so tacked on, most newbies just give up on it altogether.

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It's pretty obvious that Archwing has not been a priority for DE for some time. They could have easily released a couple of Prime variants of existing archwings (e.g. Amesha Prime) and a few more weapons, which don't even have to be impressive (even MR-fodder). The fact that they haven't added anything for some time means they do not really care about the system much right now, at least in its current form.

I don't know if Railjack will change all that and if it's going to be upgraded somehow, but I wouldn't keep my hopes up.

Oh, and definitely getting some of the better archwings and weapons changes the mode for the better. Getting stuck with the starter equipment certainly makes it seem worse.

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40 minutes ago, Archeyef said:

Because it's a fad. An annoying fad.

I kinda feel like it's pretty deceptive too. I mean, if you're boldly putting out there 'change my mind' about sonething, then it kinda gives the impression that your mind is already set and you just want to see how many people dissagree with you.

At least, that's how I gather it.

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34 minutes ago, Pr1A said:

In the normal gameplay the game makes you feel reasonably powerful since the start, getting new gear is pretty easy and the progression happens naturally when you advance in the Star Chart.

Meanwhile in the Archwing, your starting gear is absolute trash and crafting better stuff is rather costly. And since Archwing content feels so tacked on, most newbies just give up on it altogether.

Because the normal game has you learning about mods first, weapon types, how to mod your frames so its an easy progression. With archwing, you use the same principles and basics that you have learnt from modding your frame and weapon. You already know the basics and what you need. The problem is actually putting the effort to get at it.

You start with MK-1 Braton and 1 useful frame in the normal game. It'll take you a good worth of effort to get the mods you need and level up the frames. Heck most people unlock Sorties and Operator yet most will have subpar mods unless they're Hydron babies. Same with archwing. You need to actually work to have the good stuff. You can get and most of your archwings from your dojo. Not really costly nor you can call it trash. 

Basically it lacks the rewards to make the investment worth while. Does that mean its content is not fun? Subjective but it is worth investing to some. Personally its no less amusing that the same mechanics we play extermination, mobile defense, and such that we get from the normal cooperative game. Same enjoyment as long as you actually spend time to get your gear right. Just like in the normal game.  

All in all. An awfully poor point. 

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22 minutes ago, kambinks said:

Because the normal game has you learning about mods first, weapon types, how to mod your frames so its an easy progression. With archwing, you use the same principles and basics that you have learnt from modding your frame and weapon. You already know the basics and what you need. The problem is actually putting the effort to get at it.

You start with MK-1 Braton and 1 useful frame in the normal game. It'll take you a good worth of effort to get the mods you need and level up the frames. Heck most people unlock Sorties and Operator yet most will have subpar mods unless they're Hydron babies. Same with archwing. You need to actually work to have the good stuff. You can get and most of your archwings from your dojo. Not really costly nor you can call it trash. 

Basically it lacks the rewards to make the investment worth while. Does that mean its content is not fun? Subjective but it is worth investing to some. Personally its no less amusing that the same mechanics we play extermination, mobile defense, and such that we get from the normal cooperative game. Same enjoyment as long as you actually spend time to get your gear right. Just like in the normal game.  

All in all. An awfully poor point. 

As you said, it's subjective but Archwing obviously isn't fun for most players given how almost no one plays it except for star chart completion and grinding mastery in Salacia.

Archwing just lacks the things most people enjoy in the normal gameplay.

The fun movement system? Nope, instead you get some of the worst controls in the history of video games.

Vast arsenal of frames and weapons? Nope, you only get a handful, most of which are pretty boring.

Seeing your enemies being torn to shreds, burnt to ashes, melted to a gory mess and so forth? Nope, instead everything just pops like some lame firecracker.

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42 minutes ago, Pr1A said:

As you said, it's subjective but Archwing obviously isn't fun for most players given how almost no one plays it except for star chart completion and grinding mastery in Salacia.

Archwing just lacks the things most people enjoy in the normal gameplay.

The fun movement system? Nope, instead you get some of the worst controls in the history of video games.

Vast arsenal of frames and weapons? Nope, you only get a handful, most of which are pretty boring.

Seeing your enemies being torn to shreds, burnt to ashes, melted to a gory mess and so forth? Nope, instead everything just pops like some lame firecracker.

I play archwing for fun all the time.  I really like it.  My favorite is the Mars Exterminate, and I think would be neat to have a higher level version on Sedna.  Once you get hang of the controls, it handles pretty good.  I not going to say the controls are perfect.  They can still use a little more work to feel like moving through space, sky or sea. The way archwing handles inertia is a little odd at times.  But they are serviceable enough.  They definitely ain't no Superman64 here.  So hardly the worst.

I don't see what is is lacking save polish and a little more to do.  How can you possibly say flying around shooting enemies isn't fun?  Again, I will admit archwing controls have a bit of a high floor when it comes to traveling through corpus Jeffery tubes at break neck pace.  I just replaced my old xbox 360 controller, and I am still trying to get used to the my new xboxone sensitivity for that.  It takes a little bit of practice.  I suggest the Elytron for Corpus maps. It has the slower speed works better to get used to archwing controls for tight areas.

Understandable why archwing doesn't have much content.  Why should DE put more effort into a game mode seeing so little play?   It is a catch-22.  I would definitely like to see archwing expanded.  I hope Railjack does that.  I don't know if it does or not, but the only part of Railjack that interested me was the archwing part.  By the way, every squad I am ever on in Railjack; I call dibs on the archwing part. 

To be sure, I think that leveling is way too slow for archwing equipment.  You could literally do every mission in archwing and not get anything completely leveled.   I will also agree that many of the basic mods for archwing drop way too infrequency.  I usually supply my friends (my clan too if the ask) with them since I play archwing all the time and have a good amount of extras.  I also think that getting archwing weapons are way to difficult to get.  I don't like trading much, and my clan was pretty empty by the time I was ready to trade syndicate archwing parts.  Instead, I slowing joined and went through increasing my rank for every syndicate.  That was way too much work for the average player.

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1 hour ago, mac10smg-ToaOfGreen said:

I kinda feel like it's pretty deceptive too. I mean, if you're boldly putting out there 'change my mind' about sonething, then it kinda gives the impression that your mind is already set and you just want to see how many people dissagree with you.

At least, that's how I gather it.

I dunno about deceptive. I'd say it's a bit arrogant, myself. Whether or not I agree with the opinion-stated-as-fact.

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i dont mind archwing controls by themselves my only two complains are, it needs an horizontal orientation key, and the guns need to be attached to the archwing, your two hands should be busy handling the vehicle, if you give the players the "freedom"to aim independently of your AW then ironically youre essentially forcing the players to sit and shoot, because they have that option and there is no point in doing anything else since acting like a turret its more effective.

the level and enemy design its #*!%ing horrendous, who desided to make the corridors for archwing; which move a few times faster than warframes, smaller than the corridors for warframes, if youre goint o make archwing levels a tunnel where you barely fit, at least make invisible collision so that you dont get stuck on every piece of envirerment that sticks out, have it be a "repelling forcefield" or something so that you dont get stuck on every #*!%ing notch.

as for enemies, the only fun archwing enemy ive encountered was the oogma in space, since you can actually kind of dogfight it, wish dargyns werent floating pieces of S#&$ and instead had more of a dog fighting style going on. 

as an added note, NONE wants a space sim where you float around liek a #*!%ing turret shooting enemies, people that want to play space battles, want dog fighting, trying to give archwings the same mechanics of warframes is stupid, youre on a vehicle it should handle as vehicle, and yes i know archwing arent designed as a vehicle but rather a kind of jetpack, and i think that should be changed, its ok for them to work as jetpacks on the plains, but having it work as jetpacks on open space its boring and silly, youre essentially just playing a more restrictive warframe with diferent abilities, sitting still on AW shouldnt be the normal playstyle  it should be certain death. this could be fixed by making enemies do way more damage when they do hit, but we could ofset that by giving them a dramatic decrease in their aim against fast moving targets (the same mechanic that dodge has could be implemented on AW boost).

 

Le 19/10/2018 à 21:30, (XB1)Luca Explo a dit :

This portion of the game just feels tacked-on and to a certain extent gimmicky

i actually think is the other way around, the gameplay on archwing is way too familiar, since its just warframe combat on 0G, this makes archwing boring because instead of feeling like youre on a space sim, you feel like youre just a warframe floating in space, trading parkour for a massive speed boost in your spacebar, a tradeoff that hurts the experience, for me to love archwing the whole combat would have to be diferent from warframes, when i want to play warframes i want the parkour to be there, when i want my space battles i want my dogfights to be there, right now archwing feels like they tried to make a mixed experience, and we only got the worse of both worlds.

playing archwing to me feels even more restrictive than playing operator, you stand like a turret you kill a few enemies, you dash away and repeat for minutes on end.

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On 2018-10-20 at 1:04 AM, Firetempest said:

Archwing will be overhauled with Railjack next year.

Let's hope. I actually looked AW when it was first released. I'm so disappointed it got back burnered.

My naive self thought we'd have a developing flying version to Warframe inside the game, with the same addictive qualities.

We should have way more epic famorian like missing

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