Please Explain Why Universal Vacuum Is Bad

[Fallen_Echo]

11 minutes ago, Saturmorn_Carvilli said:

It basically is already.  I can toggle it on and off by putting it on and taking it off.  I see no reason to add an additional method to what we already have.

But thats not really universal vacuum is it? If you re-read my sentence i said universal vacuum as a toggle option because this way it would work across sentinels, kubrows, kavats and companionless people.

 

 

[Saturmorn_Carvilli]

9 minutes ago, Cephalycion said:

When your sentinel dies, Vacuum stops working.

._.

Just sayin.

 

There is Reawaken, Prime Regen and Djinn's Reawaken if your sentinel dies.  If you go through those quickly, I think you got other issues than getting all the loots at that point.

Just sayin'.

[Saturmorn_Carvilli]

3 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

But thats not really universal vacuum is it? If you re-read my sentence i said universal vacuum as a toggle option because this way it would work across sentinels, kubrows, kavats and companionless people.

No it isn't univac.  But I don't see a need to have univac all the time, and it will probably be easier just to go to my arsenal equip/not equip a companion that has it/does't have it than go into my options menu to do it. 

Again, I think a single mod on companion is a small price to pay for the utility power that Vacuum brings.  And I am okay with that.  It is a very small concession to get the utility power if affords.  I think the dearth of attack precept options companions have is a far bigger issue that worrying about taking vacuum into a mission.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

25 minutes ago, Saturmorn_Carvilli said:

No it isn't univac.  But I don't see a need to have univac all the time, and it will probably be easier just to go to my arsenal equip/not equip a companion that has it/does't have it than go into my options menu to do it. 

Potentially you'd be able to turn vacuum on/off multiple times during the mission. Doesn't get easier than that.

Although to be fair, depending on how hard\easy it is to realize, this particular element of the issue might prove to be a bit of a challenge. I actually never thought about it. Could you control things like that from a loaded mission, I wonder...? Hm, well you can put sentinels on/off in the arsenal, so it should be fine if it's done through the menu. 

Edited October 27, 2018 by AperoBeltaTwo

[(PSN)teacup775]

On 2018-10-20 at 1:30 AM, (PS4)calvin_0 said:

I bet it's the same reason why they nerf all the nuke frame... DE dont want people to play their game passively... so they want you to run around to collect loot instead of standing in one place and get all the loot anyway... 

So instead we have a mod that does that. The universal vacuum is subject to range selection.

DE is seriously not thinking something thru. They are not facing the question why people choose to camp rather than be active in the mission. Why is the power fantasy game inspiring people to AFK?

Maaaybe there is some element missing in boinging around a map back and forth (as for survivals)? Did they not think something thru on void fissures where peeps just want to get their traces and hate running around a map if the squad members just scatter off?

In some sense nuke frames are a pain because they scatter loot all over a tileset. I dont generally like Banshee, Saryn, Ember or Mag in a Hydron grind for that reason. Somebody else creates loot 5 rooms over and I have no influence on that (in a pug session). 

Grind is very easily the enemy of engagement.

[Cephalycion]

10 hours ago, Saturmorn_Carvilli said:

There is Reawaken, Prime Regen and Djinn's Reawaken if your sentinel dies.  If you go through those quickly, I think you got other issues than getting all the loots at that point.

Just sayin'.

Has it ever occurred to you that new players might not have those mods?

And the people who need Vacuum the most are the players who don't have millions of every resource, aka *gasp* the new players?

[Fallen_Echo]

12 hours ago, Saturmorn_Carvilli said:

No it isn't univac.  But I don't see a need to have univac all the time, and it will probably be easier just to go to my arsenal equip/not equip a companion that has it/does't have it than go into my options menu to do it. 

Again, I think a single mod on companion is a small price to pay for the utility power that Vacuum brings.  And I am okay with that.  It is a very small concession to get the utility power if affords.  I think the dearth of attack precept options companions have is a far bigger issue that worrying about taking vacuum into a mission.

Okay with this we are now at the begining of the circle again. Question posted again:

 

Just what makes reasons you see what makes you think that vacuum should always be a mod and should not be shared around?

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

On 2018-10-28 at 5:51 AM, Fallen_Echo said:

Okay with this we are now at the begining of the circle again. Question posted again:

 

Just what makes reasons you see what makes you think that vacuum should always be a mod and should not be shared around?

better question, what do u think will happen if the players have everything because loot is instantly added to their inventory and they dont have to grind that much?

u can get 15 orokin cells in a single run ect

[Bombarder0]

cuz its gonna make everybody cum and no one wants that

[Top_Kekkonen]

On 2018-10-21 at 1:27 AM, Misgenesis said:

Here i come beating the dead, rotten horse!

Most of the games tiles being narrow hallways and enemies usually following straight paths means Vacuum can scoop everything up without a second thought. So, from a game design stand point Vacuum makes the loot system largely redundant in most places in the game.

Scooping up energy, health and ammo also lessens the need to manage said resources, making Vacuum a buff to your uptime. Carrier especially allows you to be quite liberal with ammo expenditure.

Contrary to the third poster and what most people who want univac say, there are very good reasons as to why the game is better off without it.

A good answer if it wasn't for the fact that dogs and cats aren't used.

[Azrael_V]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Spider_Enigma said:

better question, what do u think will happen if the players have everything because loot is instantly added to their inventory and they dont have to grind that much?

u can get 15 orokin cells in a single run ect

Thats not how UV will work. Loot within 12m(the desired radius) is pulled towards the player. Thats been stated before so not sure why you're confusing the issue. There are enough resource sinks in the game and also a lot of resources that are manual processes like mining, fishing, kuva farming, cryotic etc and who knows what else with the upcoming Fortuna update. 

[MartianGHunter]

Am I the only one that switches between sentinals and pets and doesn't notice the difference that much. Like really guys with or without vaccum Pets have much much much much bigger problems than not getting you that extra Expel Mod which is AI !!!!!! if that ain't fixed if you weren't using pets then you won't now just saying.

[Fallen_Echo]

6 hours ago, (PS4)Spider_Enigma said:

better question, what do u think will happen if the players have everything because loot is instantly added to their inventory and they dont have to grind that much?

u can get 15 orokin cells in a single run ect

Ummm....nothing? Seriously what you describe can already be done, so why would it be any different getting the items instantly to you than going around and picking them up?

Now onto the real argument and the flaws of your question:

 

First of all that not universal vacuum but universal looting what you describe.

Second IF DE adds in universal looting the following will happen:

1. Upon kills you and your teammates just get a notification on the findings.
2. No more loot related bugs like falling throught floors and such
3. Players who previously moving sluggish with frequent breaks now can move as intented in warframes fluid movement system
4. IF DE find the amount of loot too much they can just go and adjust drop rates.

 

[Cephalycion]

4 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Ummm....nothing? Seriously what you describe can already be done, so why would it be any different getting the items instantly to you than going around and picking them up?

Now onto the real argument and the flaws of your question:

 

First of all that not universal vacuum but universal looting what you describe.

Second IF DE adds in universal looting the following will happen:

1. Upon kills you and your teammates just get a notification on the findings.
2. No more loot related bugs like falling throught floors and such
3. Players who previously moving sluggish with frequent breaks now can move as intented in warframes fluid movement system
4. IF DE find the amount of loot too much they can just go and adjust drop rates.

 

I see we have some common thinking here.

[Fallen_Echo]

42 minutes ago, Cephalycion said:

I see we have some common thinking here.

Its soo nice to see an intelligent suggestion.

[Top_Kekkonen]

On 2018-10-27 at 2:49 PM, Saturmorn_Carvilli said:

Why, because I recognize the value of Vacuum and think we got it for a bargain for the actual power it is worth that we had to give up?

No, because your attitude is similar to a slaves attitude towards its master, "I'm lucky I get food". This attitude reflects on your stockholm syndrome you've got with video game companies. You are probably a person who totally accepts any authority. Sort yourself out.

[Nitro747]

1 hour ago, Top_Kekkonen said:

No, because your attitude is similar to a slaves attitude towards its master, "I'm lucky I get food". This attitude reflects on your stockholm syndrome you've got with video game companies. You are probably a person who totally accepts any authority. Sort yourself out.

This is pretty much how I view people who be like "I'm completely fine how it is, we should be grateful we even have vacuum". It's simply sad. They treat vacuum as a matter of mere choice and as an overpowered mod when in reality is just another band-aid mod to help players do one of the core aspects of the game: collecting resources and mods.

 

[Nirrel]

3 hours ago, Top_Kekkonen said:

No, because your attitude is similar to a slaves attitude towards its master, "I'm lucky I get food". This attitude reflects on your stockholm syndrome you've got with video game companies. You are probably a person who totally accepts any authority. Sort yourself out.

 

35 minutes ago, Nitro747 said:

This is pretty much how I view people who be like "I'm completely fine how it is, we should be grateful we even have vacuum". It's simply sad. They treat vacuum as a matter of mere choice and as an overpowered mod when in reality is just another band-aid mod to help players do one of the core aspects of the game: collecting resources and mods.

 

Bandaid? For what? Lol, there is really no need for vacuum at all... I don't even think it's overpowered...

I run with a cat nearly exclusively for the last 2 years...and didn't even get out of my way to loot...

Spoiler

So a case could be made that people who are constantly whining for vacuum is just lazy, entitled individuals with a serious OCD-Related Hoarding problem.

Btw if the core aspect of the game is collecting resources than don't really understand why do you expect that the game would just aotumagically collect it for you.

[Nitro747]

Just now, Nirrel said:

 

Bandaid? For what? Lol, there is really no need for vacuum at all... I don't even think it's overpowered...

I run with a cat nearly exclusively for the last 2 years...and didn't even get out of my way to loot...

  Reveal hidden contents

So a case could be made that people who are constantly whining for vacuum is just lazy, entitled individuals with a serious OCD-Related Hoarding problem.

Btw if the core aspect of the game is collecting resources than don't really understand why do you expect that the game would just aotumagically collect it for you.

"I don't need anesthesia to take a surgery. I've done several surgeries without anesthesia before, and anyone who asks for it are lazy, entitled individuals"

[Nirrel]

12 minutes ago, Nitro747 said:

"I don't need anesthesia to take a surgery. I've done several surgeries without anesthesia before, and anyone who asks for it are lazy, entitled individuals"

That's really not a good quote considering that I've just proved with a screenshoot that without any effort to loot and not using vacuum you will still end up with so many resourses that you cannot even use up. Believe me I tried. I built many useless stuff that I've never even used, participated in clan research ecc. I gave all my mutagen samples for the hema, so all that I have now I got just playing the game with a cat, virtually never going into the derelict either.

So tell me how 12m vacuum would have benefit me. I could have doubled the quantity of stuff?

It seems more like wanting total anestesia even if you cannot feel pain hardly at all.

 

 

 

[Dabnician]

Players are lazy and will always look for the maximum gain minimum effort route, IE "Recruiting: lazygamer: Hydron 20 waves 123" like you all dont even put effort in your recruiting messages in chat.

People cant even be bothered to respond will complete sentences in trade, they talk in stupid leet speak.

This is just stuff for people to sit in one spot and let everyone else kill everything. really open for exploit and afking since i can sit in one spot while my team does all the work for my.. good bye hydron

Edited October 30, 2018 by Dabnician

[Fallen_Echo]

48 minutes ago, Nirrel said:

 

Bandaid? For what? Lol, there is really no need for vacuum at all... I don't even think it's overpowered...

I run with a cat nearly exclusively for the last 2 years...and didn't even get out of my way to loot...

  Reveal hidden contents

 

You wanna show us some actual proofs?

Go and do a dedicated farming run for whatever resource you can think of, have a team of hydroid, ivara, nekros and whatever you fancy bringing just make sure everybody expect you have a sentinel with vacuum. After doing a 30 min run go out and make a picture of the endgame results namely the pickup count.

48 minutes ago, Nirrel said:

So a case could be made that people who are constantly whining for vacuum is just lazy, entitled individuals with a serious OCD-Related Hoarding problem.

Btw if the core aspect of the game is collecting resources than don't really understand why do you expect that the game would just aotumagically collect it for you.

Because this is not a wowclone mmo fantasy from 2000 where its okay that after a fight you run across the field manually picking up loot like is some freakin cleaner crew simulator.

Warframe is a fast paced, fluid action game a genre where every other game either rarely gives physically dropped loot or they just auto collect it because they dont want to break the flow.

 

Also you might wanna check your base argument because its almost the same as saying "I can live without my arms therefore you can cut off yours too if you dont want thats because you are not ready to live life as you should" , just because you are fine with your situation that doesnt automatically mean that its good, acceptable or should be followed. 

 

[DiabolusUrsus]

1 hour ago, Nirrel said:

So tell me how 12m vacuum would have benefit me. I could have doubled the quantity of stuff?

Most suggestions call for it to be optional, so if you don't want it you don't have to use it.

Quote

It seems more like wanting total anestesia even if you cannot feel pain hardly at all.

The point is that different people have different pain tolerances. Would you deny someone total anesthesia based on the fact that YOU can't feel pain?

That's nonsensical.

Edited October 30, 2018 by DiabolusUrsus

[Nitro747]

57 minutes ago, Nirrel said:

That's really not a good quote considering that I've just proved with a screenshoot that without any effort to loot and not using vacuum you will still end up with so many resourses that you cannot even use up. Believe me I tried. I built many useless stuff that I've never even used, participated in clan research ecc. I gave all my mutagen samples for the hema, so all that I have now I got just playing the game with a cat, virtually never going into the derelict either.

So tell me how 12m vacuum would have benefit me. I could have doubled the quantity of stuff?

It seems more like wanting total anestesia even if you cannot feel pain hardly at all.

 

 

 

The only thing you proved with that screenshot is that you like using Kavats. That's good for you. Do you want a lollipop? A prize? It's your personal opinion, it doesn't really matter when people are discussing something that affects literally millions of players. It's like trying to say that you adore AW as it is and has no problem only playing AW and then trying to "prove" to people that its completely fine as it is and that people are just lazy and entitled for wanting changes.

[Mach25]

7 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Go and do a dedicated farming run for whatever resource you can think of, have a team of hydroid, ivara, nekros and whatever you fancy bringing just make sure everybody expect you have a sentinel with vacuum. After doing a 30 min run go out and make a picture of the endgame results namely the pickup count.

Warframe is a fast paced, fluid action game a genre where every other game either rarely gives physically dropped loot or they just auto collect it because they dont want to break the flow.

[emphasis mine]

A proposed solution: have innate vacuum (since the frames have it already, as evinced by the weapons clinging to them without some type of holster) to maintain key aspects of this digital product: smoothness and fluidity. Make it reasonable enough to where it's noticeable, but not so far as to negate the usefulness of other companions. It should be communicated to the user that they're running on the backup generator by relying on suit magnetism alone for item collection - sure, the lights are on, but they're rather dull - you want the main reactor on for optimal power, i.e. sentinels/companions. (Fallout New Vegas reference)

I propose that one can pick up mods and the like at range to where you will not have to practically do a belly-flop on the items to pick them up, yet sentinels and companions can do it better (personally, I would like animal companions to have some type of visual model showing they have vacuum on, say a tiny hoover vacuum on each flank [half-joke]). Allow the suit's innate vacuum to stack with sentinels/companions to achieve the maximum desired range, whatever that may be.

 

Edited October 31, 2018 by Mach25